Ask me about childhood and adult ADD.

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Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I'm currently going through the motions of getting my diagnosis. I'm 35 years old now. Not surprisingly I have a variety of former issues in my life including very severe depression and complete alienation for a few years. I did manage to complete a master's degree in philosophy after the depression, but now when I need to actually get to adult life things started to be way too tricky.

Hopefully, I will get the diagnosis and some extra help. I can't afford therapy without government support due to being unemployed. I have no idea what I want to do with my life as I know that PhD is beyond me in my current condition. Apparently the waiting time for the research is over an year at the moment and it's of course not guaranteed diagnosis due to no earlier suspicions of ADD.

I managed to sail through elementary school due to knowing how to read since being five years old and having a good memory for trivia. I skipped a lot of classes, but as I was a good student it was ignored.

I manage most things in life, because I have a very strict structure and routines. But it is very exhausting to uphold and eventually it just starts to be too much.

But at least I finally managed to seek help!

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 10:04

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:35

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

BoneMonkey posted:

I was 32, it took about 2 years for me start to end. (Though some of that was my own ADD holding me back)

You can't believe how much of a difference it's going to make. It's totally worth the fight. And once you get your meds right you will realise how easy everyone else has it.
It's seems like you might have most of the helpful things in place already, structure and routine. Meds for me just help maintain them without the exhaustion.

That's great to hear about the meds. Upkeeping a healthy routine exhausts me and it is really hard to achieve much else besides it. But I rather not live the chaotic way anymore, even if it helped me achieve something occassionally.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 11:32

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

knox_harrington posted:

The effort of forcing yourself to focus really is exhausting with ADHD, it is possible for short periods, possibly months, but I can totally understand that a PhD would just be too long to sustain. I think you will have a much better time once you have started treatment. Talking therapy may well help to an extent but from what i read most people with ADHD do best on medication.

Can I ask where you are? Your writing doesn't read like you are in the US, if you are elsewhere it might not be too hard to get drug treatment?

I was diagnosed last year and it explained a lot about how I work, or rather don't. I started treatment with stimulant medication this year and it has made a world of difference. The anxiety I had of constantly being behind with work (and needing that pressure to have enough motivation to focus) has evaporated and I am a much happier person.

I live in Finland. Thus the process is heavily regulated. Main problem is good old scandinavian bureaucracy. Adult ADD is not classified as an urgent condition. For most conditions it is required by law that you get an appointment within 6 months. With ADD you end up last on the waiting list and that can push the waiting time easily closer to an year.

Primary treatment by the book for adult ADD is therapy and support groups. Medication is only meant as a side help to those. This means that occasionally getting the meds can be trickier, but it has improved recently luckily.

I'm currently in the first phase which is quick evaluation by a psychiatric nurse. Few interviews, few tests and collecting old papers. Then psychiatrist evaluates you if you need more treatment. This process takes 2-3 months total. From there you get sent to the neuropsychiatry department, which has the longer wait, and once again a barrage of tests, gathering up evidence and finally the decision on the diagnosis.

Good part is, that this all is very cheap. Annoying part is the wait time. For some strange reason I lack patience...

And yeah, my working habits are terrible. Most of my uni studies went with 8 months of nothing and then all the studies in the last month. Which left me too exhausted to do much during summer. Even now I have my chinese work half finished and the class starts in an hour or so. I also clearly hate myself for voluntarily studying chinese in my free time.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 13:28

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

After 2 years I finally got my first doctor's appointment! It was a fun experience of people forgetting to do their job and finding out that all my health and school records before adulthood are missing.

My main problem has been massive fatigue. I have good compensation mechanics, which help me keep up a relatively regular life. Keeping that all up does take it's toll still. I manage my work and my family, but hobbies and social relationships are just too much.

I'm currently changing jobs and had 2 days off during the week. This made me notice just how much my routines are the thing that keeps me balanced. My partner was away for the same 2 days, so I had none of my safety net in place.

I guess tapping beat against the vacuum cleaner for few hours while listening to music is almost as good as actually cleaning. I did remember to eat on 50% of the days. None of the stuff I was meant to do have been done.

I guess this all is a good reminder to not fool myself that I can do this without professional help.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2019 11:26

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I started medication last week at the age of 36.

Amazing how easy my job is, when I can just think what I need to do and then just be able to do it.

I have no idea how I survived this far without medication. The difference is just so unbelievable.

It's a lot to process right now. What are things I can leave behind because I do not need to compensate anymore? And what are things I still need, because sadly I can't be on drugs 24/7.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2019 13:22

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I'm still on a very low dose of Concerta at the moment. The dosage will be upped this week. Some of the best highs are clearly gone by now, but the ease of starting and finishing things has remained. I am bit less energetic in the evenings, but good enough to study. Before medication this would have been completely impossible. I still feel that my job is really easy to do, and that might be a concern later on. Luckily, I work in a project, so there isn't a long-term job in this anyway.

I've managed to spot and drop a lot of habits that are mostly a method of procrastination or maintaining control in a chaotic environment.For example, I can handle less structured mornings better, and I do not become totally useless, if something is at different place it's supposed to be.

I do still use, and plan to keep all my scheduling and memory aid tools. I can do chores and remember stuff during the day, when my meds are full on, but in the evening it's obvious my working memory starts to suffer. It's also much harder to plan actions later in the day. That's why I probably won't be able to give up my notebooks and reminders, but that's alright. It's a good habit in general.

Emotionally I've been quite stable, but I can certainly see why some get depressed on meds, or how it brings up all the old bad stuff. Lots of things I used to enjoy aren't that exciting anymore, but luckily most of that stuff wasn't particularly good for me anyway. Trading enjoying video games to enjoying books and studying is a good trade. The capability to focus on yourself tends to bring up lot of things from the past, but I've had to deal with all that before for other reasons. I do have good coping mechanisms and have a great possibility to talk about my emotions to my SO.

Excited to see how the dosage increase affects me. Side effects haven't been too bad so far. I do need to learn to regulate myself though. I still have the tendency to take too much of stuff at the same time. I study math 2 nights per week, have courses on Computer Science at open university and currently applying to become a teacher. All while having a full-time job. I have like no skills at taking breaks or saving my energy. I'm not used to being able to take a small break and actually continuing what I do. So I just tend to work full speed for 4 hours and then wonder why I am tired. Hopefully I get to my senses soon about this, and figure out what I want to do when I grow up.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2019 08:23

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

Nebakenezzer posted:

So, what's a good book for adult ADD? Is there a good book out there on ADD that involves thinking about careers, or where ADD is a plus in a career?

All stuff I've seen so far has just been your regular career psychology stuff, with Big Five and nerd horoscopes.

Most of the stuff in the books is about reflection and recognition. What is hard for you, what you are good at etc.

If you aren't yet familiar with that stuff , picking up a book from a psychologist on the topic will be helpful.

The one-liner that I use a lot in all career counseling, is aboyt focusing on career, not a job.

My choice has been working on short projects in close enough fields. By the time I get bored, the project is close enough to end and I can just struggle through.

Now is there a career where ADD is a benefit? Being a primarily ADD-type myself, I haven't yet found one. Some are just easier. I work in education/service design at the moment and it works for me. I get to fiddle with my plans and designs plenty enough, but I also educate and support people weekly. This gives me variance and working with always brings up new exciting stuff.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 06:57

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

My favourite is sadly in finnish, but it might be useful to someone else later on:

https://www.tammi.fi/kirja/anita-salakari/adhd-aikuisen-selviytymisopas-2-0/9789520406424

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 15:05

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

poshphil posted:

I think I am going to discuss ADHD with my GP in the New Year. 2-3 months ago I was frustrated with losing interest in something and googled "why can't I stick to a hobby?" and the first result was about ADHD, then reading on from there things really began to strike a chord with me.

My biggest concern right now is around work. I honestly feel like I waste half my time at work and eventually it'll catch up to me. I have a good job but day-to-day there is very little accountability to anyone which is a real problem area for me. My main reportable deadlines are every couple of months and the work for those can be done in a couple of days, so it's done the couple of days before it's due and I probably work at a level I feel like I should be doing all the time. The rest of the time I will open a file and in the time it's taken to load I've switched to the browser I have open and fired up a new tab and go round the various forums I read, or I've picked up my phone and gone on Twitter/Facebook etc. I honestly feel like I could be (and should be) offering work so much more but I can't seem to do anything. I have loads of big projects I am trying to implement but they seem insurmountable most of the time, or they have a lot of tedious work to do initially and it takes such a long time for me to do.

The issues at work are a reflection of how I've been going back as far as I can remember - where I have accountability only to myself I never put in the work needed. I was always fairly bright so through primary school and the first few years of secondary school I was near the top of class just on general ability. As the work needed outside of class increased my grades deteriorated. At GCSE I got 3 A's, 5 B's, a C & a D. My parents response to that was basically "you could have done better", which probably sounds harsh given they're a reasonable set of results seen in a vacuum, but they were right, I could have done better. A-Levels followed a similar pattern, I got D's in my main subjects. Somehow still got into my uni course with these results (It was before things got as competitive as they are now).

University was even worse. I passed a resit exam in my first year when the exam was cancelled half an hour into a two hour exam due to a bomb scare - I'd literally answered everything I knew how to do by that point but the examiners decided if I'd had the full time I'd have answered enough to pass (I wouldn't). I ended up switching course from Astrophysics to History because it required less rote learning and essentially it was much more rewriting existing information. Most of my dissertation was done in the 36 hours before the deadline. I ended up passing with a 2:2 but I just looked at how much time my now wife put in to her studies and think about what I could have achieved with that level of work. I had 2 week spells where I didn't go to a single lecture.

Somehow from there I got a job as a trainee accountant in a small accountancy firm. This type of work seems to suit me quite well, there are budgeted amounts of hours to stick to, you are regularly getting work reviewed and have accountability around that, along with regular deadlines. I have always been good with numbers too which helps. I didn't do particularly well with my exams again, failed a couple. A big firm would have got rid after failing one so I was lucky there (as I was with pretty much everything up to that point).

The less said about my desk at work or my organisation at home the better. I desperately want to be organised but it just never happens. I will eventually get so fed up with the state of something that I will spend hours sorting a thing out, but probably only get 90% done then it just descends back how it was and the cycle repeats. Having a wife who doesn't seem that bothered about clutter and two young children really doesn't help - it gets increasingly frustrating to me as things get more messy but I can't ever stop it getting that way even if I do sort it out.

I often find myself looking at my phone whilst in conversation with people, sometimes even in meetings at work, which I know is bad but again I can't seem to help myself.

I guess I just wanted to vent a bit with my post. I feel like I'm just going to get told I'm just lazy or something and to be more organised, but I can't say how many different organising/self help systems I've tried and forgot to do after about a week. Even stupid stuff like remembering to do stretches as I have some issues with muscle tightness is a challenge. I just about remember if I am in pain but when I'm pain free it is literally out of my mind until I'm somewhere I can't do them (usually driving or in the shower). It's so frustrating.

Your experiences sound very similar to mine when it comes to work and studies ( also hobbies, but I do not want to talk about the money I have wasted on those, I am not yet ready for that.) It is definitely worth talking about it with your GP.

It's not uncommon that "high-functioning" people manage to stumble through university without diagnosis. I started a PhD before I realised that I actually need help. For me the main reasons I went for the diagnosis were the feeling of underachieving and massive exhaustion after studying. Underachieving is of course always a relative matter, and that is why I like to use the term feeling of underachieving. Compared to many ADHD peers, I have a decent situation, but I still get the feeling that I could do much better. This is important because sometimes medical professionals can ignore your need for help, because you seem to do well. Those specialised to ADHD do it way less, but generalists often do this mistake. The feeling isn't harmless, because it can easily cause depression, stress and make you avoid improving your life.

I also shared the issue of forgetting important exercises. My problem is with joints, which can basically take away my ability to walk for few weeks if I skip the routine. I never did it after the pain was away. Then I picked up again when walking starts to hurt.

Chazani fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Dec 27, 2019

# ¿ Dec 27, 2019 06:45

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I'm still in the process of fine tuning my dosage. 54mg of Concerta at the moment. The doctor offered 72mg as my blood pressure and heart rate barely react to the medication.

I refused for now, as the 54mg has been quite great for now. I manage to do even the annoying parts of my job and I don't get exhausted until really late in the evening. We are trying 54mg for 3 weeks more with breaks in between and then check if there is a need for increase.

All in all, the meds have been great. My work memory is still useless, but I can keep up my compensation methods to it so much easier. I'm way better as a partner to my SO and sometimes even do metawork now.

Evening studies still seem impossible to me, mostly because of crashing. But that might be something I just have to accept. I still suck at regulating myself, because I used to do everything in spurts, because I knew that I can't reliably do anything. Maybe when I learn to pace myself during the day, I can do some extra in the evening ( talking like 19-21 here.) I normally go to sleep before 22, so those are really late times for me.

There is a lot to take in on starting meds and lots of things to learn anew. Emotionally I've been stable. I had my struggle of being useless bag of shits years before for other reasons, so I don't have to fight guilt now.

Things are great and now just to hope the effects of meds stay strong enough for a long time

# ¿ Feb 6, 2020 12:10

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I'll have to ask my doctor for the extra 18mg and if it is legal to subscribe it like that. It sounds like a great idea.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2020 14:07

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I had my first day off-meds since starting them.

Holy poo poo it was a horrible experience. It's so hard to imagine that I've managed to live like that for this long. I was completely useless the whole day. If my SO directly instructed me to do something, I managed it. But no follow-up or no motivation to start much anything. Luckily I slept really bad, so I can find support in that it won't be as terrible all the time. I hope.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2020 08:59

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

How do you handle off-med days?

I try to keep the weekends without medication, but it is just horrible. First day is passable, but I won't be doing anything proper and I am a terrible partner due to not really being present. The second day is the bad one, I get restless, anxious and fall asleep immediately without action.

Typing this makes me wonder how my SO sticked with me for 10 years now. I am horrible without meds

# ¿ Feb 23, 2020 15:29

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

I guess in an ironic twist, my SO left me like 24 hours after making my earlier post.

The break-up is ADHD related, which is the reason I share it. As it might be important experience for someone else later on.

The main reason for the breakup was my incapability of physical intimacy. The issue rose up significantly after I started the medications and the contrasts between earlier me, medicated me and me on off-med day pointed her to it. As most of my medicated time was spent on work or studies, she rarely got to see me on the ups. Also, my mistake was that I focused a lot on getting my working habits and studying habits in order. I can admit I focused primarily to non-relationship stuff.

I never was active on physical intimacy and didn't try to fix this fast enough. Admittedly, I do not know if I can fix it, but I could have tried. I did the occasional hugs and kisses, but any kind of longer intimacy was difficult for me. Before meds, I wasn't really able to focus enough to just be present enough for an actual relationship. My mind wandered and I started to avoid contact because I felt shame from being distracted. Like, you shouldn't think about other things when you are close to the love of your life. So I did the wrong choice of hiding my shame and avoiding the situations that cause me distress.

When I started my meds, my SO was relieved that lot of the burden she had carried was off. She could trust me to do things and even sometimes plan them ahead. I was able to handle my fair share of everyday routines and on most evenings at least be able to talk with her after workdays. Earlier I just zoned out completely. Removing this burden from her probably gave enough of space to notice other issues in our relationship. She has been working a lot and studying all the time for last 4 years. On top of that she had to do all the "metawork".

We've had talks about this issue many times during our relationship, so it's not like this came as total surprise to me. That it reached this point was still a surprise. Our last talk about the topic was from few weeks back and we had a deadline for our relationship. She just felt that it was too much. Naturally I am sad, hurt and disappointed but I understand her. I can't promise that the issue which bothers her would be fixed, even if I would put the time to it. I myself disliked the idea of keeping her waiting, so we decided to break up.

So now, at age of 37 I actually have to finally learn to look after myself proper. Actually handle the whole everyday living stuff. Thank god I am on meds, because it would be the end of me without.

My advice to all is, that you have to speak about your ADHD. If you start medications during a relationship, try to keep the connection to your partner. It's way too easy to focus selfishly on your own life and making that better. But you can't sidetrack the emotional side of ADHD, particularly in a relationship.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2020 09:05

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

knox_harrington posted:

Sorry to hear this. I feel that you have probably never been in a better place to handle becoming single. Enjoy getting to know yourself properly as an individual!

Now that I am over the worst part, I am looking forward of being single. Finding my own limits, habits and interests. It's scary, but also intriguing. It is so easy to step back in a relationship and not actually think everything through.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2020 19:52

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:35

Chazani: Feb 19, 2013

artsy fartsy posted:

Curious how many of y'all have problems with discalculia. I haven't been formally diagnosed or anything, just been reading a lot about it lately and seeing myself. It's not so severe that I can't grasp numbers or formulas as a concept, but I cannot hold numbers in my head (if I try I usually jumble or reverse them), cannot remember phone numbers or birthdays or anything like that, and I count on my fingers a lot. I absolutely could not grasp basic algebra at all into well into my adult years, when I took some basic programming classes and that apparently rewired my brain the way I needed to make it finally click. The highest math I've taken is statistics, and I'm happy to say I was able to get it but I worked very slowly (my teacher was cool and let me finish exams outside of his office after hours.) I used to hate math so much, now I find it really beautiful, but I don't really trust myself and triple check even simple addition or subtraction problems because there's a good chance I've scrambled it up. I'm okay if there's no pressure, but if somebody is staring at me and waiting for me to, say, count back their change, my mind goes blank. The other day I couldn't remember that 6x3 is 18. I needed to charge this lady $18 and I just couldn't, I'd been charging people $6 per person for hours and at that moment it vanished. Absolutely ridiculous.

I share the issues with basic algebra. Most of the stuff is just impossible for me to do quickly and reliably. As an adult, I studied math again and learnt some easier methods to handle algebra. But I still prefer to write it all up on paper whenever I can, and never skip phases. Even the ones that are probably super easy for most people to do. The way I learnt algebra as a kid was totally unsuited for me, as it required memorising and counting in your head a lot. Now I just break-up all algrebra tasks to parts as much as is needed for them to make sense to me. Typical example that I use is 77+14 which is super hard for me to count. But splitting it to parts helps massively: 70+10+7+4 -> 80+7+4 -> 80+7+3+1 -> 80+10+1 -> 90+1. After getting used to doing everything like this, I've managed to find enough confidence to skip a few steps too! Multiplication table of 7 was always my worst enemy, and I still struggle with to extent. The way I do it now is that I've learned I can do 1x7, 2x7 and 3x7 easily, so I just try to split multiplying with 7 to those parts. Like 4x7 I honestly do not know how much it is, but 2x7 + 2x7 seems obvious to me. Naturally learning all these methods of compensating for the issues were totally beyond my reach when I was younger and unmedicated. This stuff is honestly something I have picked up in last few years.

The thing that made me realise that I am not actually bad in all math related stuff was philosophical logic. My teacher in it always wrote everything to separate lines, and I suddenly realised that I can actually follow it. My issue is probably more related to reading, as when a formula is all on a single line I have really hard time to separate the parts properly. But with line breaks and using colours it's surprisingly manageable to me. After starting meds, I've continued studying math and quite really enjoy it. Some parts of it are super hard for me still, but in most areas by doing the extra work of writing every step out, I can do well.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2021 08:07

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