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Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008

AIIAZNSK8ER posted:

My parent's own a restaurant and we're considering printing take out menus ourselves to be able to change prices and rotate specials more often. We'd like to print 100-200 menus at a time with 2 colors, and they are double sided. I was looking into color laser printers. I'd also like to be able to print the dine in menus on a thicker card stock that is 11x17.

I've been looking at this HP Color LaserJet CP2025dn http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828115250

The replacement seem pretty expensive ~$100 per cartridge(4 total), but it looks like we'd get 3,000 prints out of it.

Would we be better off getting a duplexing inkjet? Would the quality be the same? Speed of printing is not really an issue.

The printer you linked to won't handle 11X17. If that's important to you, your budget might be blown.

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Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Many printers give you a early warning that means "Order a new unit, but don't put it in yet" then a second state that means "Put that new unit in now."

You might still be at the first state.

Even if you are at the second state, run it until your print quality suffers. The 2270 lets you bypass the toner low state without a hack, you just push the button a specific number of times.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
The wireless doesn't need to be built into the printer for your wireless devices (iPhones, laptops on WiFi) to talk to it. Plug the printer into your WiFi router.

However, the wireless can make it easier to find a good spot for your printer. Its placement isn't determined by where you have network drops available.

If you decide to upgrade to a wireless printer, make sure it's for the right reason.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008

KongGeorgeVII posted:

I'm a design student that is sick of dealing with printers that couldn't give a poo poo about quality control when it comes to printing, plus I want to be able to print at 3am the night before my projects are due if need be.

I was wondering if you guys would be able to give me any recommendations of a printer that can print at least A3 sized documents (420mm x 297mm) :australia: and produces high quality results. Price is an issue, but I don't have a particular budget and I'm willing to save up rather than skimp on quality.

They do make A3/Tabloid size laser printers. However, they won't be cheap.

Australia will have a different product lineup than the US, did you have any printers in mind?

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
When I was in college, I had a printer. I would print out my homework, then forget it in the out tray of the printer and print it on campus anyway.

I have a Brother laser now that is pretty nice. If I were going to do college again, I would just get a big box of ramen I could trade with one of my neighbors so I could use their printer.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
When is the last time anyone saw a light-lens copier? These days, copiers are scanners mated to a laser or inkjet printer. Even then, a light-lens copier and a laser printer are both xerographic, using light to expose a charged photoreceptor which is then developed with toner and fixed to the paper.

So no, there is nothing about a laser printer that requires you, or should encourage you, to use "laser" paper in your laser printer.

However, inkjet specific papers have coatings or treatments that prevent the ink from bleeding.

Higher priced papers can be whiter, smoother, heavier weight. All these things lead to the prints feeling and looking "nicer." If you are like me, at home all I print is random bullshit. I don't care about those things.

What it comes down to is: Are you satisfied with the multipurpose paper you are using now? If yes, continue using it.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Paper weights are a clusterfuck. There are at least 5 basis weight scales, all using pounds as the unit.

Based on the chart on this page: http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html, 24 lb bond is approximately 90 gsm. Unless its actually 24 lb cover stock, then its really 67 gsm. Or is it 24 lb offset? That would be tissue paper.

If I need to talk about a paper's weight, I use the grammage. No one is confused if I say 75 gsm.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008

americanzero4128 posted:

I got a notice that some Samsung printers have a nice vulnerability:

http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/281284
http://l8security.com/post/36715280176/vu-281284-samsung-printer-snmp-backdoor

We only have one of these printers that is hooked up to a computer to print via USB, and is hooked up to the network to fax. I've done some Googling but haven't been able to figure out how to block port 1118/udp on the printer or disable the SNMPv1 or v2 and only let SNMPv3 run on the printer. Naturally, the person using this printer is an administrative assistant and I can't get to her computer right now to sit there and bumble through it for 30 minutes until I get this fixed. Anyone know where this would be at going through the printer interface?

quote:

remains active even when SNMP is disabled in the printer management utility.

Don't bother trying to disable it, as apparently it doesn't matter.

On the other hand, anyone who could exploit this is already inside your network, wouldn't they go after more interesting things instead of your printer?

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Is it truly random? Or does it repeat at a specific interval? Try printing a page full of 40% grey. What does that look like?

If it is truly random, it could be that something in the drive system is slipping. It could be the paper drive, or the photoreceptor drive. It could also be the paper is really slick.

If it has a specific interval, it could be that something is out of round, or off center. That will cause relative speed ups and slow downs in the imaging system, and cause a defect like you described.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
The solid-ink machines have a waste container, but it shouldn't be as messy as a toner waste bottle. It's like an ice cube tray, you twist it, dump out the chunks, and put the tray back in the printer. There is also what they call the cleaning unit, it gets replaced periodically.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Why do you think you need more memory? Are you experiencing really slow RIP times?

On the other hand, $7? Just do it!

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
If you plug the printer into your router, your computer can still be wireless and print.

You might still need to install their software to make network scanning work.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008

Sri.Theo posted:

My router doesn't have any USB ports :( OK HP you win this time.

But I might try setting it up and then uninstalling the junk software hopefully that will work.

I meant by Ethernet, unless your printer doesn't have an Ethernet port.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
It does use WiFi.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I doubt an inkjet will be more economical than laser at a print volume of 4000-5000/month.

Also, your unit of $/cartridge is not a good way to compare printers. You need to compare $/print. Look at the capacity of each cartridge. On some production printers, a bottle of toner might cost $400 or even $1000. However, the bottle holds 10 Kg of toner. The brother laser isn't cheaper to run just because it has cheaper toner carts.

Also, look into a lease option, where toner and service are included, you just pay per print. That way your client pays approximately the same each month, rather than nothing for a number of months followed by $500 for toner one month.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
There's no cartridge to recycle?

The wax prints also don't hold up that well to rubbing or scratching. Traditional inkjet prints don't hold up well to water. Laser prints have neither of these problems (They can be scratched, but not nearly as bad as the wax).

It sounds like the restaurant would be printing 150 copies all at once each day, and not really using it otherwise. First Copy Out Time isn't that big a deal for this usage scenario.

Will they be using plain paper, or some specialty heavy-weight or textured paper? Those can wear the parts inside a printer faster than plain. You should be contacting a dealer or two who can give you a demo.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I deal mostly with production printers (10 million+ prints/month) used with high-speed envelope inserters. Print permanence is still a concern in this group. It may be totally unfounded, but I assumed it was still an issue based on this concern.

Also, this type of print volume is where ink-jet can be cheaper than laser. Xerox, HP, Kodak, Oce, Cannon, and others all make production level inkjet printers.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
The high yield cartridge for Brother HL-2270DW is down to $35 on Amazon. Price History

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
"Paper Jams"

Printers have a number of sensors along the paper path. The sensors go on and off while the paper feeds along the path. The printer knows how fast the paper is moving, and how long it is in the feed direction. Based on that, it knows what sensors should be on and off at any given moment.

If a sensor doesn't turn on in time, or stays on too long, (or switches on too early or switches off too early) it will declare a paper jam. This is based on the assumption that paper is stuck somewhere and either couldn't make it to the next step, or got stuck on top of a sensor.

False jams come in when a sensor fails, gets covered in paper dust, or a torn scrap of paper, or like Melliemel's case, a feeding problem. Melliemel's printer isn't seeing the first sensor turn on in time, and declares "paper jam". It's kind-of accurate, the paper is stuck in the tray, and can't go any further. You could say it's "jammed up". However, they could be a lot more specific with that fault.


There are a couple things that could be causing your problem. The grinding suggests a mechanical problem, the pick wheel, or a clutch. Manual feed trays like that sometimes have a lift mechanism that cycles for each page fed. Not having much experience with Kyoceras, and not having a parts list, I can't suggest a specific part to order.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
It also adds copy/scan.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I don't have experience with that printer, but I would look at what your monthly print volume is and make sure it aligns with the duty cycle of whatever you buy. Make sure it isn't overkill or too small.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
This is a printer where the inkjet head moves back and forth right? The printer is losing track of where the head is on its trip out and back.

I'm guessing something is either slipping, binding, or the gears have bad backlash. The marker that got dropped in the printer could have caused a gear to partially strip.

The printer uses a stepper motor to move the head back and forth. This kind of motor moves a known amount for each step. They will also have a home sensor. The printer will move the head to home, then out 1000 steps, back 1000 steps, and it should be home.

However, the head on your printer doesn't always move the right amount. If that is the case, you are basically hosed and need to buy a new printer.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
You're talking about large areas of 100% black? What you describe is somewhat expected. Most, if not all, laser printers will struggle with this.

An ink-jet printer will also have trouble, but different symptoms. You'll end up with paper cockle because it is just so wet with ink, and some will not be able to get enough ink to the head to keep up with demand.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Did you do the cleaning procedure described on page 3-8 in this manual: http://www.kyoceradocumentsolutions.ca/americas/jsp/upload/resource/16792/0/FSC5015-5025-5030ENOGR1.0-BAS.pdf

Is this in black only, or are other colors affected?

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I don't know many specifics about dye sub, but maybe I can give some general background on DPI.

In most printers, DPI comes from two factors:

1. The number of addressable locations in the cross-process direction. This might be the number of dots written by the laser ROS, or number of LEDs in a laser printer, or number of steps in a scanning ink-jet, or number of nozzles in a fixed ink-jet. In the case of dye-sub printer, its the number of discrete heating elements.

2. The process direction resolution is determined by the speed that the paper moves, relative to the rate that new lines are written. A printer can be run at multiple speeds with a speed/DPI trade-off. With a fixed ink-jet printer, there is an optimal rate for ink to be jetted. The different speeds may be sold as different models, or as a switchable option for the customer. For a dye-sub, the writing speed will have to do with how fast the element can heat up and cool down, derated by a factor to prevent it from burning out.
For a scanning ink-jet, the paper stops for each pass. The resolution is again dependent on the spacing of the nozzles. If the lines are interlaced, it also depends on the accuracy of the paper motors. If the paper is not accurately positioned, you'll see patterns in the print, especially in the solid areas.

The printer will have a two dimensional dpi, e.g. 300 x 600. If both are the same then it may be listed as a single number.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
You may have already figured this out, but if you have your printer next to your router, you can connect it with wired Ethernet and wireless clients will be able to print to it.

Otherwise yes, the 5470 is basically the 5450 with WiFi, more memory and a LCD display. http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelCompare/1/HL5450DN_HL5470DW

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
You can buy a color laser printer/scanner. Brother makes more than the Mono/Duplexing model.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
At that point you probably should consider leasing and not buying. Or using a print shop instead.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
It sounds like this printer will be critical to your business, so you'll want a support contract. You should also probably lease the printer from a dealer. Pick out a few dealers and have them print samples of your typical menus, and a few you come up with using color to see how various printers look.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008

FISHMANPET posted:

Duplex scanning is usually a premium feature. Normal ADFs only scan one side of the document, as best I can tell the MFC-J5720DW is the cheapest Brother that has a duplex scanner, with a MSRP of $250, so probably a street price closer to $200.

The true hotness is simultaneous duplex scanning.

The two-pass duplex ADFs are mechanically interesting, but watching a one-pass scanner blow through a stack of sheets is impressive. :science:

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Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Inkjets generally run a cleaning cycle each time they cycle up. When you demand a cleaning cycle, it's just doing a more involved, or multiple normal cycles in a row.

The only exception would be the Xerox solid ink printers, they only need to run a cycle when powered on. It's not so much a clean cycle, as it is removing bubbles from the lines. Once set up, they can stay in a warm state to keep things from solidifying, but not hot enough to print. I think they might do some alignment patterns / exercise jets between pages.

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