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the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

Those last tracks on the second Mellon Collie disc are my favorites. We Only Come Out at Nite included. That being said, I would cut Tales of a Scorched Earth, cut XYU in half and then leave disc 2 alone. Then I'd just cut Love from disc 1 and that's about it! I love Mellon Collie . In fact, I would cut more tracks from Siamese Dream and that's a single album!

Adore is tied with Mellon Collie for me, even though it's a different world.

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The Remote Viewer
Jul 9, 2001


I actually sold all my Smashing Pumpkins CDs after Zeitgeist, feeling that everything that happened after the reformation had tainted things. I was kind of a marginal fan to begin with.

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008


CSD42 posted:

X.Y.U.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'm looking forward to meeting you finally

See, to further what I said, these are two examples of songs I absolutely wouldn't cut from their respective albums. Both are basically nervous breakdowns; X.Y.U. is Billy venting all his anger and betrayal over his breakup (his raw, wordless scream at the end is chilling) and I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally is Trent Reznor attempting to cope with the emptiness and loss following the death of his grandmother. Both are incredibly passionate and emotional, albeit in different ways, and since I personally consider passion the core of meaningful musical experiences, they're two of my favorite tracks on those albums.

Nowadays I just look upon double albums as a universal blessing- even if I find myself disliking a bunch of songs, I end up feeling thankful for the extra material, and the fact that inevitably people are enjoying them somewhere means they're not a waste. The only double album I've ever felt really does drag on too long is Degradation Trip by Jerry Cantrell, but that has less to do with filler issues and more to do with the fact that each disc is well over an hour.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

Crescent Fresh


Captain Charisma posted:

E: By the way Adore is their best album and never gets any discussion.

I agree Adore is great. Not my favorite but great. Funny you say that because I had read a magazine interview with Corgan just after Adore came out. They asked him about Jimmy being gone and their change of sound etc. He said "If someone comes up to me years from now and says 'Adore was the best thing you ever did' I'll die". He knew it'd be a huge risk, but it was what he wanted to put out and of course he has that "I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want" attitude.

They used Twilight from Adore on the last episode of Flash Forward I watched. It would have been perfect for a musical montage, but they turned the volume down for some dialogue about 1min in and you never really get to hear the rest. I forgot how awesome that song was and it made me want to listen to Adore again.

kalensc
Sep 10, 2003

Unexpected benefit: I'm having much more fun now.

Really.


Captain Charisma posted:

I can't find it, but there was a thread awhile ago about making double albums into a single one and I made a MCIS one. If I remember correctly this was it:

MCIS
Tonight Tonight
Jellybelly
Here Is No Why
BWBW
gently caress You
Cupid de Locke
Galapagos
Porcelina
Where Boys Fear To Tread
Bodies
1979
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
XYU
Farewell & Goodnight

Shuffle around some of the softer songs, and maybe add in In The Arms of Sleep and that's golden.

E: By the way Adore is their best album and never gets any discussion.

I'd probably swap Cupid de Locke for Muzzle, and def add In the Arms of Sleep and Stumbleine, but otherwise this looks fantastic.

I wouldn't say Adore is their best album, but I get why some people say it is. I do agree that it is incredibly under-appreciated.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


an oddly awful oud posted:

and I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally is Trent Reznor attempting to cope with the emptiness and loss following the death of his grandmother. Both are incredibly passionate and emotional, albeit in different ways, and since I personally consider passion the core of meaningful musical experiences, they're two of my favorite tracks on those albums.

I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. I had no idea that was what the song was about (figured it was about something similar). However, if I were to pick a song about what happens after death, I would, without a doubt, choose "Beside you in time" (at least I think that's what it's about) from "With Teeth". Those two last tracks get me every time.

I'll check it ("Looking forward...") out again.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I think Adore is the best because it mixes the best of both eras. Pre-Adore's lyrics could be loving embarrassing, especially on Mellon Collie which sounded sometimes like it was written by a 13 year old. Adore and Machina were when Billy finally matured as a lyricist, and I imagine his mother's passing had a lot to do with it. At the same time, as much as I love Machina, they did go a bit overboard on the fuzzy guitars and electronic influences. Adore has these, but they're more subdued and resemble the pre-Adore albums' catchiness and melodies except without the junior high bullshit.

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008


Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. I had no idea that was what the song was about (figured it was about something similar). However, if I were to pick a song about what happens after death, I would, without a doubt, choose "Beside you in time" (at least I think that's what it's about) from "With Teeth". Those two last tracks get me every time.

I'll check it ("Looking forward...") out again.

Yeah, the song's lyrics are pretty self-explanatory and in The Fragile's CD booklet, the lyric page for that song had a small "For Clara" at the bottom.

Not to derail too heavily, but what I think makes that song is the penultimate couplet, "I've done all I can do / Could I please come with you?" with the sudden addition of a second voice singing- the same foreground one, soft and scared like the rest of the song, added to by the second one mixed to the back and down and yelling in anguish- it really captures the emotional mix that comes with losing a loved one.

Captain Charisma posted:

I think Adore is the best because it mixes the best of both eras. Pre-Adore's lyrics could be loving embarrassing, especially on Mellon Collie which sounded sometimes like it was written by a 13 year old. Adore and Machina were when Billy finally matured as a lyricist, and I imagine his mother's passing had a lot to do with it. At the same time, as much as I love Machina, they did go a bit overboard on the fuzzy guitars and electronic influences. Adore has these, but they're more subdued and resemble the pre-Adore albums' catchiness and melodies except without the junior high bullshit.

On the other hand, I think the immaturity of Billy's lyrics is one of the most interesting things about the Smashing Pumpkins. He seemed to be in a perpetual stage of adolescence or young adulthood, which isn't exactly uncommon among musicians, but he could express himself in a poetic way. So he would write songs that really touched on what it's like to be young, but with a more sophisticated voice. I think that's what gives classics like Mayonaise, 1979, or Muzzle their power. And it adds a lot of poignancy to the numerous songs he writes about his bad childhood, like Disarm or To Forgive.

That said, definitely has his share of horrible lyrical misfires, but I think they aren't any less common post-Adore. It's just that pre-Adore bad lyrics were usually angsty and blunt, like in Zero, whereas post-Adore they're pretentious and/or dogmatic.

an oddly awful oud fucked around with this message at Oct 22, 2009 around 06:27

NOT PICTURED
Mar 8, 2003



There is nothing I would cut from MCIS. It's probably my favourite album of all time. Anything after Adore just bores me though except for American Gothic. If he does some more work like that I would be happy.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

The immaturity in 1979 compared to something like Zero is apples and oranges. 1979 is kind of a dreamlike song about being a bored teenager whereas Zero is poo poo like "Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanliness/And cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like me...Intoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness," etc. It's childlike vs. immaturity.

Clogproof Orifice
Apr 2, 2001
Like stee, moanin' ludlow!

So we're due to have a new song soon if he wasn't lying. November swiftly approacheth...

MUFFlNS
Mar 7, 2004



I'm hoping this is a return to form for him and that Zeitgist turns out to be a minor blemish on the shiney arse that is his career. The small little clips of Billy fretboard wanking on Twitter sounded pretty good, so here's hoping he does this right. Was there an actual date set in concrete for the first track?

Edit: I was just on Youtube and heard a song called As Rome Burns. Where's this from? It's from live 08 concerts where he introduces it as a new song and it's really good, I'd like to hope that it will appear on Teargarden by Kaleidyscope but it's not psychadelic at all.

MUFFlNS fucked around with this message at Oct 22, 2009 around 20:59

Clogproof Orifice
Apr 2, 2001
Like stee, moanin' ludlow!

No, they've just mentioned that they're going to release the first song sometime in October.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


I was going to post, asking if he released a song yet, and if people forgot. Then I checked his blog and now he's saying not until January at the soonest. Kindof a dissapointment, but hopefully worth waiting for.

Seaniqua
Mar 12, 2004

UNDEAD

GO BIG DEAD RED


IUG posted:

January at the soonest.

And thus it begins.

Why did he have to announce this so god damned early?

p. nice Wolf Parade ref
Mar 27, 2003


I thought the EP wasn't gonna be till January, and that he said a single would still be coming soon.

fastpork
Jul 16, 2008


the Bunt posted:

Those last tracks on the second Mellon Collie disc are my favorites. We Only Come Out at Nite included. That being said, I would cut Tales of a Scorched Earth, cut XYU in half and then leave disc 2 alone. Then I'd just cut Love from disc 1 and that's about it! I love Mellon Collie . In fact, I would cut more tracks from Siamese Dream and that's a single album!

Adore is tied with Mellon Collie for me, even though it's a different world.
Should we all be in agreement that Tales Of A Scorched Earth is the worst song on the album. I think being wedged between the two best tracks on the second disc didn't help it's case, but it is just god awful. I often find myself skipping it the most because it ruins the flow that the record was going in.

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

It's pretty awful, and that staticbox effect Corgan has on vocals isn't cool.

The Ali Bob Factor
Apr 11, 2009


Billy Corgan posted:

I know many have asked for a first release date. I can tell you that the ep's themselves will most likely not be available till the new year, January hopefully. The first song to be released however is just right around the corner. I promise that. We can't yet set a date until I actually finish here. But you can do the math; once I've finished there really is nothing stopping me from putting out the first song other than how we are going to make it readily available for anyone who wants it. After that, the idea would be that every 2 to 4 weeks another new song would come out. I like the idea that there will be a fresh piece of SP music on the streets at least once a month for the next 40 months.
So, physical EP - around January, while the first digital single is "right around the corner".
Of course, that's what he said when Teargarden was first announced.

EDIT: Anyone see the interview with David Lynch? I was really hoping that he had "fixed" his voice since Zeitgeist/American Gothic, but according to the studio footage in the interview, nope. I think his (now 40 year old) voice is going to ruin any future Pumpkins songs for me.

The Ali Bob Factor fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2009 around 08:18

Awesomesauce
Nov 13, 2006

6 parts robot
1 part turtle
Salt and pepper to taste

fastpork posted:

Should we all be in agreement that Tales Of A Scorched Earth is the worst song on the album.

No can do. I would easily put it above Zero. Opinions, opinions.

Happy Hippo
Aug 8, 2004

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island


Tales of a Scorched Earth is one of the best songs on the second disc, if you ask me.

The Ali Bob Factor
Apr 11, 2009


I always thought Zero sounded sarcastic, with intentionally juvenile lyrics.

MUFFlNS
Mar 7, 2004



I love Tales Of A Scorched Earth too. I wouldn't change anything on Melon Collie.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Tales of a Scorched Earth was always my go-to "gently caress EVERYONE" song, when I was an impressionable teen. I still see it that way, I just go-to it less frequently now.

I'd have to say my favourite pumpkins-related memory was coming home from school some Friday, in the fall (favourite season), before a long weekend, I had no homework, all was good. I was tired, and put on one of my all-time favourite songs, "Obscured", to loop. As it played on, I fell deeper and deeper into sleep. Woke up a bit once, and felt the most calm as I'd ever felt. To quote Billy himself, "When I woke up from that sleep, I was happier than I'd ever been."

Hummer. So under-appreciated.

Stayne Falls
Aug 11, 2007
Everything was beautiful

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Tales of a Scorched Earth was always my go-to "gently caress EVERYONE" song, when I was an impressionable teen. I still see it that way, I just go-to it less frequently now.

I'd have to say my favourite pumpkins-related memory was coming home from school some Friday, in the fall (favourite season), before a long weekend, I had no homework, all was good. I was tired, and put on one of my all-time favourite songs, "Obscured", to loop. As it played on, I fell deeper and deeper into sleep. Woke up a bit once, and felt the most calm as I'd ever felt. To quote Billy himself, "When I woke up from that sleep, I was happier than I'd ever been."

Hummer. So under-appreciated.

It's not under-appreciated by me! That was the first song that introduced me to just how beautiful delay and phaser could be when used together. As I've gotten older I've started ignoring the singles on Siamese Dream and focusing on the in-betweeners like "Hummer", "Sweet, Sweet" and such. What a fantastic album.

Happy Hippo
Aug 8, 2004

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island


Stayne Falls posted:

It's not under-appreciated by me! That was the first song that introduced me to just how beautiful delay and phaser could be when used together. As I've gotten older I've started ignoring the singles on Siamese Dream and focusing on the in-betweeners like "Hummer", "Sweet, Sweet" and such. What a fantastic album.

Those were always my favorites from that record. I still can't listen to "Tonight" at all. "Soma" is the tits.

Stayne Falls
Aug 11, 2007
Everything was beautiful

Happy Hippo posted:

Those were always my favorites from that record. I still can't listen to "Tonight" at all. "Soma" is the tits.

I just realized that with "Today" from Siamese Dream and "Tonight, Tonight" from Mellon Collie, Billy never followed through on the logical conclusion with a musical adaptation of MacBeth's "Tomorrow Tomorrow Tomorrow" soliloquy

rxcowboy
Sep 13, 2008

I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth; fucked both a chick and her mom

I will get anal. Oh yes.

pill for your ills posted:

If you remove "Young Lust" it fits on one CD. Maybe still so if you replace it with "What Shall We Do Now?"



Not to derail this into a discussion of The Wall, but since it's one of my top 10 favorite records ever I must chime in. You simply can't cut Young Lust, it's as awesome song and part of the narrative transition. Maybe drop What Became of Vera and Bring the Boys Back home, but that's about it.

It's not perfect, not all of the songs are great, but in my opinion The Wall is far more than the sum of it's parts.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


The Ali Bob Factor posted:

I always thought Zero sounded sarcastic, with intentionally juvenile lyrics.

That's how I always read it. Lyrics aside, it's a fantastic song.

I still maintain that Gish is their best album, though, and I usually hate people who insist a band's first album was their best.

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

College Slice

precision posted:

I still maintain that Gish is their best album, though, and I usually hate people who insist a band's first album was their best.
I agree wholeheartedly.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Cheesus posted:

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think Gish is a phenomenal record, and some of the deep cuts ("Windowpaine" is godly) are killer but for me it has always been their Bleach (to open up a whole nasty can of worms).

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

hatelull posted:

I think Gish is a phenomenal record, and some of the deep cuts ("Windowpaine" is godly) are killer but for me it has always been their Bleach (to open up a whole nasty can of worms).

The whole psychadelic twist on Gish would have made for an interesting sound had they kept it. "Snail" is one of my favorite tracks, even if the lyrics were made up along the way.

Zesty Mordant fucked around with this message at Aug 27, 2012 around 19:41

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

I don't care much for Spaceboy or Rocket myself.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


the Bunt posted:

I don't care much for Spaceboy or Rocket myself.

You don't like Rocket?!

I always thought that was one of those "everybody loved it" tracks. Ah well.

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone caught the version of "Today" they played for the VH1 Storytellers show, I'd have to say that's my favourite version of the song, hands-down.

Drunken Lullabies
Aug 1, 2006

by Debbie Metallica


Mellon Collie as a whole is actually a pretty amazing album, but you probably wouldn't know that because Billy Corgan is talking over the whole thing. A bunch of songs on it have demo's without any vocals and most of them are better. Also while Gish is my favorite album, I don't think anything on it matches the "best" tracks from Mellon Collie (porcelina of the vast oceans for example) but it's a much better album as a whole.

Anyone saying that this should be 12 tracks instead of 44 doesn't know Billy Corgan well enough. If he made it 12 tracks he would release 2 or 3 gems alongside a bunch of garbage, and slowly release the rest of the 44 songs as b-sides anyways. He can make some great music, but he ends up making a bunch of terrible songs in the process and can't seem to differentiate between the two.

... Or maybe he's going to release 44 songs and then later unleash the 1,467,791 b-sides he made in creating the 44 songs.
... Or we'll get a 44 track long Zeitgeist

Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2009 around 10:08

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

College Slice

the Bunt posted:

I don't care much for Spaceboy or Rocket myself.
For me, Siamese Dream stops at the end of Geek USA. I can't think of another album that acts like that to me.

The Ali Bob Factor
Apr 11, 2009


Cheesus posted:

For me, Siamese Dream stops at the end of Geek USA. I can't think of another album that acts like that to me.
You mean the end of Mayonaise, right? ..Right?!

remi_sinato
Nov 5, 2009

Hot caviar breath and the weight of a chest. Patterns of the cracks in the ground. Watership Down.


From a financial standpoint, that is a lot of songs to produce and make available for free... strange marketing.

Crackerman
Jun 23, 2005



Drunken Lullabies posted:

Mellon Collie as a whole is actually a pretty amazing album, but you probably wouldn't know that because Billy Corgan is talking over the whole thing. A bunch of songs on it have demo's without any vocals and most of them are better.

I know its getting a lot of praise in this thread but this is exactly how I feel about Adore. Musically I love it, but the vocals basically destroy nearly every song for me. Its especially true of For Martha, its heartbreaking until his Cartman-vocals come whining in wrecking the whole thing.

Also how can anyone possibly not like Rocket? The intro alone is all you need, the rest of the song is a bonus.

remi_sinato posted:

From a financial standpoint, that is a lot of songs to produce and make available for free... strange marketing.

I don't think Billy gives a poo poo anymore, he just wants attention regardless of whether its positive or negative or fairly indifferent or whatever.

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Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

Cheesus posted:

For me, Siamese Dream stops at the end of Geek USA. I can't think of another album that acts like that to me.

this motherfucker doesn't like Mayonaise, kill him

Also, spaceboy is worth it simply for the transition into Silverfuck at the end... which unfortunately is separated on some vinyl editions.

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