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Bubble-T
Dec 26, 2004

You know, I've got a funny feeling I've seen this all before.

Siamese Dream is the closest they got to a "perfect" record, I'd consider dropping Quiet (high-five shpladoinkle) if only because it kind of gets lost in among the other loud guitar rock songs. It's not Rocket or Geek USA, basically. The album would be too monotonous without songs like Sweet Sweet, Spaceboy, Luna. I can understand if you just want all rock all the time but they're pretty well written songs. They're generally free of the cringeworthy stuff that started to creep in to his writing after this album.

I won't get too deep into MCIS but suffice to say it hasn't aged as well and again unless you're a massive fan the album could really benefit from being streamlined. The longer guitar freakouts all suffer in comparison to Silverfuck (Admittedly it's been a while since I played the album).
Edit: I just listened to Tales of Scorched Earth again and yeah it's bad. The only bit I like now is the noise section in the middle.

Adore isn't even a great record let alone the pumpkins best and I've only ever heard people who are waaay too into the pumpkins rank it as #1. I like a bunch of the songs on there and billy wanted to write write different stuff but it's clearly not what he's best at, and a couple of the songs make me cringe.

Having said that several Adore tracks became really loving great when they reworked them for live shows, among my favourites.

Finally, if you think The Wall has no filler you're loving nuts.

Yergie posted:

if he has learned to self edit this should be great.

There's no way this has happened. I'm not even sure billy's quality control was all that good back in the day either, the SD era B-sides were generally pretty good too. He's never been able to self-edit but it's become more apparent as the quality of his writing/composing has dropped off.

Captain Charisma posted:

I've really liked most of their (his) newer output. The recent tour was polarizing as poo poo, but I think Zeitgeist and the other new stuff was really good and flew under the radar because of shitheads like Pitchfork rolling their eyes and turning up their Vampire Weekend.

Plus it's 44 songs for free. I find it funny that this guy is one of the pioneers of digital distribution with Machina, and all the credit goes to Radiohead and NIN (as much as I like those bands).

also adore was the pumpkins' best album deal with it

If you transported 16 year old, totally obsessed with the pumpkins me to the present I'd have agreed with you so I know where you're coming from but still.. How you could think Zeitgeist flew under the radar is beyond me, there was plenty of interest in it. It just wasn't very good.

Machina was distributed as a gently caress-you to the label IIRC, it's not really comparable to the reasons people talk about radiohead/NIN distribution.

Captain Charisma posted:

Adore and Machina were when Billy finally matured as a lyricist, and I imagine his mother's passing had a lot to do with it.

Ok this I don't understand, Machina is lyrically really quite bad. Even Stand Inside Your Love, a song I genuinely like, is a bit clunky. I agree that it feels like he was trying harder though, I guess.

edit: gently caress this is becoming a lot of

precision posted:

That's how I always read it. Lyrics aside, it's a fantastic song.

I still maintain that Gish is their best album, though, and I usually hate people who insist a band's first album was their best.

if you read interviews with Jimmy he talks about how that was the record where they all just wanted to play to prove that they were good enough and after that they became more focused, cut out the fat etc.. He in particular stopped varying tempos so much, focused more on rock and less on flaunting his jazz influence.

It goes a long way towards explaining why that album sounds pretty different to their other stuff (it's not just billy's hair as I thought when I was young), and I think it works really well for the most part. I still think Siamese Dream is a "better" record but I go back to Gish way more often than I do MCIS.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

You don't like Rocket?!

I always thought that was one of those "everybody loved it" tracks. Ah well.
I know some people don't like the guitar tone on SD in general and Rocket is the apex of that, it's a pretty love-it-or-hate-it sound. Incidentally, whenever I listen to it the tempo seems half as fast as I remembered it.

Bubble-T fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2009 around 18:45

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precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


The first time I heard "Rocket" was in a club in Orlando, and they had the bass turned up really high, and I immediately thought "Who is this chick and why is she ripping off the Jesus and Mary Chain?"

Once I bought the album, it became one of my favorite songs of theirs, though.

pseudosavior
Apr 14, 2006

Don't you do cocaine at ME,
you son of a bitch!

Captain Charisma posted:

MCIS
Tonight Tonight
Jellybelly
Here Is No Why
BWBW
gently caress You
Cupid de Locke
Galapagos
Porcelina
Where Boys Fear To Tread
Bodies
1979
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
XYU
Farewell & Goodnight

E: By the way Adore is their best album and never gets any discussion.

I know it's old, but I feel a point needs to be made: not having Thirty-Three on this is simply criminal. Other than that, it's pretty solid.

Also, since it's still not being discussed, Adore is extremely hit-or-miss for me. There are some amazing songs on it, but gently caress, post-rock songs move more quickly than half that album.

LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams


Gish is the quintessential 'bands first album', with that 'here we are' sound, a mixture of different elements, not quite knowing what they are but just knowing that they have to at least be really relevant (ie the grunge/alternative sound) but mixed in with a lot of flavors (psychedelic, jazz, somber).

After dominant personalities enter bands, albums become much more concept based, and SP probably epitomised attempted concept albums, love it or hate it. But albums likes Gish have a raw feel which are lot of fun to listen to, a sound you only get with really good musicians knowing they want to be big and modern but not really knowing exactly how yet. If I didn't want to go to sleep so bad I'd listen to Gish now, sounds like a sunday afternoon project

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

pseudosavior posted:

I know it's old, but I feel a point needs to be made: not having Thirty-Three on this is simply criminal. Other than that, it's pretty solid.

Thirty-Three is boring and bland. There's no way I'd keep it.

MUFFlNS
Mar 7, 2004



I know everyone has their own opinion and stuff but some of the stuff you guys say is insane. Cutting MCATIS down to 1 disc? Removing Thirty Three from the tracklisting? Adore is crap? Removing songs from Siamese Dream?!?!?! It just doesn't compute

Bubble-T
Dec 26, 2004

You know, I've got a funny feeling I've seen this all before.

When the band you obsessed about in highschool hasn't done anything worthwhile for a decade this is what happens. Also, discussions regarding single-disc MCIS are interesting because it really is a bit bloated.

MCIS is two hours long. Most rock records are 40-50 minutes, siamese dream is about an hour, London Calling for comparison clocks in at 65 minutes. You can cut MCIS in half and it's still a long album. (incidentally this is why removing a song from siamese dream might also feel 'right'. Albums that long can feel like they drag even if the quality is high).



Regarding Thirty Three: Yeah I'm surprised by how poorly it's aged for me, used to be one of my favourites.

Commenting on that playlist: MCIS is a long, long album - your cut down list is still very long for a single disc, at 72 minutes running time it's already 10 minutes longer than siamese dream almost the same length as some double CD albums. It's possible to have a disc that length though, Disintegration is about the same (which is itself a very lengthy album).

Keeping to that length: I think you've over-emphasised the really harsh/fast guitar songs. Bodies is one of the weaker ones and there's no reason to keep both gently caress You and XYU if you're cutting down to a single CD, IMHO. I'd take out XYU and Bodies, replace them with In The Arms of Sleep (which I know you mentioned as well), Beautiful and Muzzle.

Muzzle/Bodies could be interchangeable I guess but while I think they're both musically a bit straightforward I think Muzzle is one of Billy's better lyrics, kind of life affirming like a slightly less sarcastic "Today".

I cheated and added a minute so it's 73 minutes total. Going below that is definitely possible (i'd just cut bodies/XYU from your list and add nothing) but to get it down to the usual 40-50 minutes you'd probably want to cut the title track and some other things and it would start sounding less and less like MCIS and more like a bunch of singles.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I really enjoyed my mix-track-listing (can't remember if it fit onto a cd) filled with all of the b-sides, in order, from The Aeroplane Flies High. Obviously, I left out Pastichio Medley.

How about this... Let's make our own MCIS version of Pisces Iscariot. Take all of the MCIS b-sides from Aeroplane and order them the best way possible.

pill for your ills
Mar 23, 2006

ghost rock.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I really enjoyed my mix-track-listing (can't remember if it fit onto a cd) filled with all of the b-sides, in order, from The Aeroplane Flies High. Obviously, I left out Pastichio Medley.

How about this... Let's make our own MCIS version of Pisces Iscariot. Take all of the MCIS b-sides from Aeroplane and order them the best way possible.

A friend of mine did that in high school for me. It was a two-disc affair that he called Mellow/Dramatic. Mellow was all the, well, mellow stuff, plus a few tracks from elsewhere like "Infinite Sadness" and Billy's cover of "Isolation." Dramatic was all the hard rocking b-sides and "Pastichio Medley" tacked on the end. If I could find the discs I'd post the order, but for the life of me I don't know where they went.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


3D GAY WORLD posted:

That may some of the worst album cover artwork I have ever seen in my entire life.



Think before you post.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


MCIS didn't need to be quite that long, for sure, but The Swans' Soundtracks for the Blind proves that an album can be 140 minutes long and have absolutely no fat to trim whatsoever.

Clogproof Orifice
Apr 2, 2001
Like stee, moanin' ludlow!

I feel like I need to chime in and say that I'm slightly annoyed that they didn't end up releasing a song already, but I can't say that I'm not surprised.

Instantoxen
Apr 22, 2006


MONDO MEDICALS posted:

I know everyone has their own opinion and stuff but your opinion is wrong! I'm not being hypocritical at all with this post!

Lone Rogue posted:



This is epic.

Instantoxen fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2009 around 23:21

APimpNamedSlickback
Aug 25, 2007


That is a beautiful cover.

MUFFlNS
Mar 7, 2004



Instantoxen posted:



I didn't say that

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


Berokencyde also happen to be the most hilariously awful band ever.

CRUNK SCREAMO.

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

Haters gonna hate


The last four songs on disc 2 of MCIS are one of the strongest sections of the album in my opinion. There are songs on that album I can't stand from time to time, but I really can't see cutting it down to one disc at all.

The Ali Bob Factor
Apr 11, 2009


http://twitter.com/studiodog posted:

OK,update we were scheduled to master the first 4 songs 2day but the mastering engineer is really sick so we have been rescheduled 4 Monday
10:49 AM Nov 5th from TweetDeck
So it looks like he might be releasing all 4 songs at once. And soon, hopefully.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

Crescent Fresh


Bubble-T posted:

Wall o nonsense about time

Why should time matter at all? That's about the dumbest argument I've ever heard of for cutting an album.

Its one thing to cut down to a -72 minute mark because changing from a single to double album makes a huge difference in packaging costs, marketing, tracklists, etc. But to cut a 70min cd down to 55min just because that's what a lot of other people do is asinine. Not to mention Billy tends to do things the way he wants to do them, for better or worse.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Bubble-T posted:


Yeah, Muzzle and Galapagos are great and in hindsight I'd probably dump Bodies and gently caress You for them. I don't even really like Bodies or gently caress You anyway, I was just trying to focus on the hard stuff since it felt like most of the album was hard stuff and therefore the band wanted it that way.

I used Muzzle as my senior yearbook quote so I guess it's kind of important for me.

Tolli
Apr 20, 2004

All is full of love!

Cutting down MCIS to 1 disc is insane. The album is perfect. Once it was released i pratically had it on repeat on my mini-disc the next three years. I still play it today.

Thru the Eyes of Ruby and Porcelina is just epic.

I think Billy never will release anything as good as MCIS, but I hope that Teargarden will have some of the old magic back.

Bubble-T
Dec 26, 2004

You know, I've got a funny feeling I've seen this all before.

Yeah I did too but I wouldn't listen to the whole thing any more. Like I said earlier, I fully understand where people are coming from when they say MCIS is perfect or Adore is the best, I just don't agree at all anymore.

ChesterJT posted:

Not to mention Billy tends to do things the way he wants to do them, for better or worse.
Cool, I'm not Billy and I left the hypothetical album at 73 minutes anyway

Any time you expect someone to sit down and listen/watch/read your work in one sitting it's important to consider running time (or it's equivalent).

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

COMPUTERS!
COMPUTERS!
YAAAAAAAAY!

Bubble-T posted:

Any time you expect someone to sit down and listen/watch/read your work in one sitting it's important to consider running time (or it's equivalent).

Maybe he doesn't expect anyone to listen to it all in one sitting?

I know I rarely listen to CD's in one sitting as I listen to them during my 15-20 minute drive to work. I still think Mellon Collie is amazing even if it does take a long time to go through just because there's so much stuff on it that I like.

Also, any list without Stumbleine sucks.

fastpork
Jul 16, 2008


Awesomesauce posted:

No can do. I would easily put it above Zero. Opinions, opinions.
Eh, different strokes for different folks. Zero is the worst single and one of the weaker tracks on the first album, without a doubt. I'd still rather listen to childish lyrics Corgan than staticbox Corgan.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Tales of a Scorched Earth was always my go-to "gently caress EVERYONE" song, when I was an impressionable teen. I still see it that way, I just go-to it less frequently now.

I'd have to say my favourite pumpkins-related memory was coming home from school some Friday, in the fall (favourite season), before a long weekend, I had no homework, all was good. I was tired, and put on one of my all-time favourite songs, "Obscured", to loop. As it played on, I fell deeper and deeper into sleep. Woke up a bit once, and felt the most calm as I'd ever felt. To quote Billy himself, "When I woke up from that sleep, I was happier than I'd ever been."

Hummer. So under-appreciated.
Yeah, I would do the same but with Rhinoceros or Soma. Hummer is the second best track on SD (after Mayo). Besides being a great song, It has the best lyrics Corgan ever did.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Captain Charisma posted:

...in hindsight I'd probably dump Bodies and gently caress You for them.

I thought I knew what you were talking about, but... well... now I don't know....

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I thought I knew what you were talking about, but... well... now I don't know....

I dunno, I think there needs to be a better balance of hard and soft songs. Just put the two hard songs that you find to be the weakest in those spots.

E: Oh wait I have Galapagos there already!

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Captain Charisma posted:

I dunno, I think there needs to be a better balance of hard and soft songs. Just put the two hard songs that you find to be the weakest in those spots.

E: Oh wait I have Galapagos there already!

I think you should read what I quoted out loud.

The Ali Bob Factor
Apr 11, 2009


In some of the studio vids you can see Billy wearing a wool cap to cover up his hair growth... It seems like he is really working hard on this album, doesn't even take a break to shave his head.

The Mechanical Hand
May 21, 2007

as this blessed evening falls don't forget the alcohol


precision posted:

Berokencyde also happen to be the most hilariously awful band ever.

CRUNK SCREAMO.

There's a segment in one video where they're just screaming in models faces who look genuinely bored to even be there. It's probably also one of the worst songs and videos as well. Goddamn that group.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

Crescent Fresh


I know this isn't the catchall SP thread really, but I happened to look at one of those celebrity gossip magazines (my female coworker brought it in and I was really bored ok!) and apparently Jessica Simpson is all about Billy Corgan now? She was all into him at some party, they disappeared together, and now the "gossip" is all abuzz about how "into to him" she is, while Billy says "she's cool, but I'm really into my music right now".

I just found the whole thing to be hilarious. Who knows, maybe it will be good for him. Hell I know if I was loving Jessica Simpson I'd be writing songs all drat day, albeit simplistic ones with the repeating phrase "life is amazing, I'm loving Jessica Simpson".

Awesomesauce
Nov 13, 2006

6 parts robot
1 part turtle
Salt and pepper to taste

ChesterJT posted:

I just found the whole thing to be hilarious. Who knows, maybe it will be good for him. Hell I know if I was loving Jessica Simpson I'd be writing songs all drat day, albeit simplistic ones with the repeating phrase "life is amazing, I'm loving Jessica Simpson".

Err body knows BC makes the best music when he's depressed as gently caress.

Soundtrack To Mary
Nov 12, 2007

ZOMBY WOOF

So has he bothered to release any of that music yet?

Mr Ice Cream Glove
Apr 22, 2007
"If you put a hamburger in the toaster it'll say Happy Birthday."

A Song for A Sun (1st of 44)

PhonyMcRingRing
Jun 6, 2002


Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

A Song for A Sun (1st of 44)

Reminds me of Pink Floyd a bit. He needs to lower the volume on the vocals a bit though, it was really jarring when they started.

Tyja
Jul 16, 2006

The tattered outlaw of the earth,
Of ancient crooked will;
Starve, scourge, deride me: I am dumb,
I keep my secret still.


Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

A Song for A Sun (1st of 44)

It's not what I'd usually associate with Smashing Pumpkins but it's a big step in the right direction away from the likes of G.L.O.W and F.O.L. I'd even go as far as saying I quite liked it. Nice guitar solo in the middle too.

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??


Grimey Drawer

I liked the live renditions of this song during their last tour. You can hear them at livesmashingpumpkins.com, though not for free.

edit: nevermind, you can stream lower bitrate preview.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


Great, all this hype, and then it's not even something that you can download, let alone download into a mp3 version. Have to stream it through a web browser provided by AOL.

DominoDancing
Apr 26, 2008

Each morning after Sunblest
Feel the benefit
Mental arithmetic


Uhm the song is pretty good...how did that happen?

IUG posted:

Have to stream it through a web browser provided by AOL.

Huh?

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


Sorry, I mean website. That site is apparently owned by AOL, or at least the streaming technology.

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Platypus Farm
Jul 12, 2003

Francis is my name, and breeding is my game. All bow before the fertile smut-god!


I'm not gonna lie, this blew me away. Now, bear in mind I'm not saying it is the best song ever or anything, but I was expecting really spaced-out, lovely, sentimental pop songs. Turns out, he still does have some good stuff left.

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