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Propaganda Hour posted:Maybe I've just become used to post-Adore billy corgan because this is much better than a lot of Machina and Zeitgeist in terms of vocal mixing. Screwing around with the EQ curve now I can definitely tell that this was all done in synth because everything overlaps with the vocal track. It definitely could use separation but it's not awful. Comparing this to Tenacious D is off base. Well, I haven't played with the EQ, but it isn't much to say it's better than Zeitgeist mixing. Zeitgeist mixing was appalling. Stars in particular was a train wreck. I also don't know what you mean with the Tenacious D reference as I never caught that bug.
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Dec 24, 2009 13:25
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Propaganda Hour posted:Maybe I've just become used to post-Adore billy corgan because this is much better than a lot of Machina and Zeitgeist in terms of vocal mixing. Screwing around with the EQ curve now I can definitely tell that this was all done in synth because everything overlaps with the vocal track. It definitely could use separation but it's not awful. Comparing this to Tenacious D is off base. What do you mean "done in synth?" And why would moving a slider on an equalizer lead you to the conclusion that everything is on the same track?
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Dec 24, 2009 20:57
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Iblys posted:Well, I haven't played with the EQ, but it isn't much to say it's better than Zeitgeist mixing. Zeitgeist mixing was appalling. Stars in particular was a train wreck. Some people kept posting it and I didn't understand the reference at all since Tenacious D is very produced, sorry that I got you mixed up. And yes, Stars aggravates the hell out of me on Zeitgeist, too. I think it's the 10+ overdubs of Corgan's voice and constant crash symbol. chime_on posted:What do you mean "done in synth?" And why would moving a slider on an equalizer lead you to the conclusion that everything is on the same track? Honestly no idea, I wrote it at 4 am. This song is ridiculous about synth instruments but I don't know what I was saying in that context. Propaganda Hour fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Dec 25, 2009 |
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Dec 25, 2009 04:32
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New track released today. Rather than sending you to MySpace, here's the link: http://smashingpumpkins.com.s3.amazonaws.com/player/mp3/Widow-Wake-My-Mind.mp3 So about a month and a half to get to song 2. At this rate we'll have the whole album in just over 5 years.
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Jan 18, 2010 19:17
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I like this one, but again the vocals bring it down a lot. Shame because I think the instrumental is wonderful.
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Jan 18, 2010 20:11
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That was balls. I want gothy spacerock Billy back please. As Rome Burns proves that he's got it in him, all he needs is a black cape and a makeup artist and we could have something worth listening to again.
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Jan 18, 2010 22:01
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Yeah wow, that song sucks rear end. Hopefully the next one is as good as Song for a Son otherwise I'm just going to start ignoring it again.
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Jan 18, 2010 23:18
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MOre like a Widow to Wipe my rear end
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Jan 22, 2010 05:26
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Kind of generic, it'd be passable if he just knew how to tweak his vocals.
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Jan 22, 2010 06:41
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Well at least half the songs so far have been pretty decent.
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Jan 22, 2010 16:20
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So much for anticipation! This new song is TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE.
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Jan 31, 2010 17:42
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so all your hopes are dashed because of one song out of 44?
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Jan 31, 2010 19:16
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I've been getting into the Smashing Pumpkins only recently. I'm up through Adore. From the sounds of things... I guess I can just stop now.
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Jan 31, 2010 20:31
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Jonas01 posted:I've been getting into the Smashing Pumpkins only recently. I'm up through Adore. From the sounds of things... I guess I can just stop now. Give both Machinae a chance before you decide that. There are very good songs on both. I still don't know what people have against those albums.
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Jan 31, 2010 20:56
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pill for your ills posted:Give both Machinae a chance before you decide that. There are very good songs on both. I still don't know what people have against those albums. Initially, what irritated me about Machina were the annoying self-referential styles that front loaded the album. "The Everlasting Gaze" was Zero IIelectric boogaloo, "Raindrops + Sunshowers" had that goofy underlying dance thing they'd been playing with on Adore, and "The Crying Tree of Mercury" was just a really really awful song. Eventually, I found things that I truly enjoyed about the record; "Age of Innosense" a fitting blue ball of a song, "Try, Try, Try" is great pop, "This Time" was a wonderful goodbye kiss from the band (at the time), and "I of the Mourning" was deadly for me despite the unfortunate song title. I still pull out the vinyl version from time to time because I like the different track order. Plus, "Speed Kills" was a wonderful b-side. Overall though, it just didn't have the punch or longevity that their "Golden Age" material had. Compare it to Zeitgeist, though and the shits genius. Machina II, I loved infinitely more. The alternate version of "Try, Try, Try" is one of my favorite Pumpkin tracks and most of the other stuff gave me giddy "Cherub Rock" feelings. So yeah, don't stop now guy that made it to Adore. At the very least, check out Machina II, cherry pick Machina, and investigate the material found on the bonus disc from their Greatest Hits disc (Judas O I think it was called) if you haven't heard it yet. However, don't delve into Zeitgeist territory unless you really don't care. hatelull fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Feb 1, 2010 |
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Jan 31, 2010 23:15
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hatelull posted:So yeah, don't stop now guy that made it to Adore. At the very least, check out Machina II, cherry pick Machina, and investigate the material found on the bonus disc from their Greatest Hits disc (Judas O I think it was called) if you haven't heard it yet. If he's just a casual fan, stopping after Mellon Collie is fine.
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Jan 31, 2010 23:23
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The Remote Viewer posted:If he's just a casual fan, stopping after Mellon Collie is fine. Or maybe just that little bit further to the Batman single, if he's feeling adventurous.
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Feb 1, 2010 00:01
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Starsnostars posted:Or maybe just that little bit further to the Batman single, if he's feeling adventurous. "Eye" is pretty loving cool, too.
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Feb 1, 2010 00:56
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I've said it before but the Machina albums are criminally underrated and Adore is my favorite album by them. I hate how people brush them off because they wanted more Mellon Collie angst 
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Feb 1, 2010 01:15
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Captain Charisma posted:I've said it before but the Machina albums are criminally underrated and Adore is my favorite album by them. I hate how people brush them off because they wanted more Mellon Collie angst Well is it ok if I brush it off because Machina is just a bad album? Adore has its moments I agree. I loved Machina when it first came out but it only gets worse every time I come back to it. edit: also both are pretty damned angsty. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 1, 2010 |
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Feb 1, 2010 02:34
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I love the song "Glass and the Ghost Children" off of Machina but that's about it. Adore is good when I'm in the mood. It's got some serious cheese though. ...eh, that can be said of all SP 
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Feb 1, 2010 04:30
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As someone discovering their material for the first time, I think that SP is at their best when they get a loud, heavy groove going. Where Boys Fear to Tread is one of my top favorite songs by them, as is Zero and Quiet. With a few exceptions (notably Stumbleine and Annie Dog), I don't think their slow songs work nearly as well. Mellon Collie could absolutely be cut down to a single album. But that's coming from someone who, like I said, doesn't like 90% of their slow material. There are plenty of bands who can do pretty, atmospheric music, but I reach for SP when I want something loud and fuzzy and driving.
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Feb 1, 2010 05:17
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Bubble-T posted:Well is it ok if I brush it off because Machina is just a bad album? Adore has its moments I agree. I should have worded that differently. People here will find actual good reasons to dislike it, but most people I've talked to (casuals) hated Adore because it didn't reflect their teenage angst/IT DIDN'T SPEAK TO ME MAN like MCIS did. I'll never argue that Machina is a showstopper, but it's better than people give credit for. There's some clunkers, yeah, but I love Everlasting Gaze, Stand Inside Your Love, Try Try Try, and the aforementioned Glass & The Ghost Children. Machina II has some really good ones too, I just wish that they had been given proper production. Let Me Give The World To You, White Spyder, Atom Bomb, Slow Dawn, and Real Love are some of my favorite SP songs.
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Feb 1, 2010 11:02
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Admittedly, Adore was somewhat of a O_o follow up from MCIS. However, considering what happened between those albums (drummer got canned, Corgan's Mom died) I find it wonderfully textured and gorgeous. It's not supposed to rock and blister like the previous materials. I'm not sure why people are so disappointed, especially since most of Corgan's interviews regarding the album around that time usually mentioned it was a departure in sound and that it's bound to turn some fans off. It's a great record, and tour for that album was one of the best live performances I've seen of theirs despite the fact that Chamberlain was in exile.
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Feb 1, 2010 15:04
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Captain Charisma posted:Machina II has some really good ones too, I just wish that they had been given proper production. Yeah, if Machina II had recieved proper production I'd just listen to that and the original Machina as a double album (the way they were intended). I think it's a real shame that never happened, since I think a Machina I&II double album would have been my favourite work by them. I doubt we'd ever get a rerecording of Machina II either unfortunately, and even if we did it would most likely suck now since Billy's production would ruin any potential it had
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Feb 1, 2010 23:56
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MONDO MEDICALS posted:I doubt we'd ever get a rerecording of Machina II either unfortunately, and even if we did it would most likely suck now since Billy's production would ruin any potential it had It didn't sound good to begin with, honestly, because all copies are sourced from cheap vinyl. I'd imagine the rip they did with the laser turntable probably sounds the best if they ever got around to it.
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Feb 2, 2010 01:35
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hatelull posted:Admittedly, Adore was somewhat of a O_o follow up from MCIS. However, considering what happened between those albums (drummer got canned, Corgan's Mom died) I find it wonderfully textured and gorgeous. It's not supposed to rock and blister like the previous materials. I'm not sure why people are so disappointed, especially since most of Corgan's interviews regarding the album around that time usually mentioned it was a departure in sound and that it's bound to turn some fans off. It's a great record, and tour for that album was one of the best live performances I've seen of theirs despite the fact that Chamberlain was in exile. Personally I don't mind the aesthetic at all, the issue with Adore is that it often highlights Corgan's lyric writing a lot more. Sometimes this is good, and he wrote some of his best lines for that album, but lyricism was never his strongest point and that album has some songs that sound fairly embarrassing to me. It's more of a ballad-style album written by a guy whose ballads are of inconsistent quality  I didn't get to see the Adore tour live but I watched a full televised show and I have to agree - it was the best live show of theirs I've heard. The Adore songs were fantastic live and they reworked a couple of the standards into something extra special too. If they ever released a proper live album from that tour I'd buy it immediately.
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Feb 2, 2010 01:41
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The Remote Viewer posted:It didn't sound good to begin with, honestly, because all copies are sourced from cheap vinyl. I'd imagine the rip they did with the laser turntable probably sounds the best if they ever got around to it. Yeah that's what I mean, to go back into the studio and rerecord all the songs with whoever produced Machina I so it has the exact same production values and sound quality. Of course, not really possible now that Jimmy/Iha/D'Arcy are no longer around
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Feb 2, 2010 03:22
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I think Machina II worked so well because it didn't have the production values of Machina I. Corgan's production values took a steep dive after MCIS/Adore and one of the reasons I love Machina II (and why it's held up better almost 10 years later) is because it has a more raw sound. It just didn't have a chance to get hosed up in the studio like their normal album efforts of the time (and since then). On a slightly less related note, when was Untitled written? If it was in fact written after everything went down and was one of the last songs written/recorded with Iha, Corgan and Chamberlain, it's a little upsetting that it was a sound or style he was always capable of but chose not to for whatever reason.
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Feb 2, 2010 08:37
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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Untitled from what I remember was basically Billy giving everyone one last "gently caress You" by proving that if he chose to he could pound out a hit single in a short time period and with minimal studio time in response to all the criticism of his latest works at the time and people saying that he had lost his ability to pen a good song. Had Billy chosen he could have poo poo out multiple albums of pop music that would have sold, topped charts, and in his eyes tarnished his career, integrity, and vision for his music. So the next time you hear Untitled remember, he didn't write more like that out of spite and you and everyone else has been cheated out of some sweet pop music.
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Feb 2, 2010 10:13
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Space Cadet posted:Untitled from what I remember was basically Billy giving everyone one last "gently caress You" by proving that if he chose to he could pound out a hit single in a short time period and with minimal studio time in response to all the criticism of his latest works at the time and people saying that he had lost his ability to pen a good song. Had Billy chosen he could have poo poo out multiple albums of pop music that would have sold, topped charts, and in his eyes tarnished his career, integrity, and vision for his music. So the next time you hear Untitled remember, he didn't write more like that out of spite and you and everyone else has been cheated out of some sweet pop music. Also, remember that bullshit albums like Zeitgeist are what Billy Corgan thinks to be "important music that is changing the world." So, every time he accidentally hatches an egg like Song for a Son, cherish it because right after, he's going to push out four Widow Wake My Mind quality tracks.
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Feb 2, 2010 12:58
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I thought Zeitgeist was a fine album, it just needed to be mastered by someone who knew what they were doing. Doomsday Clock, Tarantula, United States, Stellar, and That's The Way are all really great songs. I will admit that when it gets bad, it gets really bad (Starz), but I think it gets more poo poo than it deserves.
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Feb 3, 2010 00:58
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Captain Charisma posted:I thought Zeitgeist was a fine album, it just needed to be mastered by someone who knew what they were doing. Doomsday Clock, Tarantula, United States, Stellar, and That's The Way are all really great songs. No, it deserves it all. Isn't this the album that every song is in the same key? I mean, seriously god drat.
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Feb 3, 2010 01:08
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All my complaints with Zeitgeist are related to Billy's voice. As soon as I heard the album for the first time and Doomsday Clock kicked off I was thinking "Oh, this sounds good..." and then Billy's voice came on and my thoughts changed to "Why's he talking instead of singing?!" which persisted for the duration of my listen to the album. I dunno if he just can't sing how he used to anymore (which the new material kinda suggests) but it's a shame, the right vocals would have made Zeitgeist much more enjoyable for me. Also the goofy black and white stripes with white cape outfits were insanely retarded. Wasn't so bad when he went back to wearing some weird black skirt and playing stuff like As Rome Burns and Superchrist later on in the tour though, at that point they kinda started to regain the Smashing Pumpkins greatness. ..and then Jimmy left
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Feb 3, 2010 09:19
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MONDO MEDICALS posted:All my complaints with Zeitgeist are related to Billy's voice. As soon as I heard the album for the first time and Doomsday Clock kicked off I was thinking "Oh, this sounds good..." and then Billy's voice came on and my thoughts changed to "Why's he talking instead of singing?!" which persisted for the duration of my listen to the album. I dunno if he just can't sing how he used to anymore (which the new material kinda suggests) but it's a shame, the right vocals would have made Zeitgeist much more enjoyable for me. Yeah, his voice isn't doing well. For more evidence, listen to some bootlegs from the 20th anniv. tour. The old songs that he is supposed to sing, he doesn't really sing. He just kind of singy-talks, like you're saying. Some of those shows were really cool though. I ended up buying the 12/7 aragon ballroom show just because it had the best setlist. Really cool concert all in all.
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Feb 3, 2010 15:29
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MONDO MEDICALS posted:..and then Jimmy left What was the speculation on this? Did he finally get sick of Billy's posturing and drama queen antics?
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Feb 3, 2010 15:48
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hatelull posted:What was the speculation on this? Did he finally get sick of Billy's posturing and drama queen antics? Well this is what he said himself: Jimmy Chamberlin posted:By now you have heard the news of my departure from the Smashing Pumpkins. I will say, without going into any unnecessary details that this represents a positive move forward for me. I can no longer commit all of my energy into something that I don’t fully possess. I won’t pretend I’m into something I’m not. I won’t do it to myself, you the fan, or my former partner. I can’t just, “Cash the check” so to speak. Music is my life. It is sacred. It deserves the highest commitment at every level and the Pumpkins are certainly no different. I’m sorry but it really IS that simple. There is no drama, bad blood, or anything else but a full commitment to music. My best goes out to Billy and I’m glad he has chosen to continue under the name. It is his right. I will continue to make music with the Jimmy Chamberlin Complex as well as pursuing other musical interests. I feel that I have a long way to go and a lot to give. Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support through all of this. I am constantly humbled by all of you! It is an honor and a privilege to play music for a living and I don’t take it for granted not even for a second. Seems like creative differences and he didn't like the direction the Pumpkins were heading in. It gives the impression he thinks Billy has sold out maybe, but then again Chamberlin's new project is 'progressive, symphonic pop' 
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Feb 3, 2010 16:07
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MONDO MEDICALS posted:Well this is what he said himself: Eeesh. Not to be selfish, but I'd love to see Chamberlain glom on to another project spearheaded by someone else that can craft really great songs. I remember hearing some of his "complex" thing, and other than the unmistakable Chamerblain drum sound it really didn't do much for me. The dude is a phenomenal drummer no doubt, but he needs a good band to complete the picture.
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Feb 3, 2010 16:10
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Reading this thread and I realized, and this really pisses me off, an ex-girlfriend back in '98 stole my Aeroplane box set of all the Mellon Collie singles. The Zero CD was really drat good.
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Feb 15, 2010 05:27
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CRACK FIRE BEATS posted:Reading this thread and I realized, and this really pisses me off, an ex-girlfriend back in '98 stole my Aeroplane box set of all the Mellon Collie singles. The Zero CD was really drat good. WTF!!!!!! I own every single Pumpkins release ever and that box set is the best. Your ex must be a oval office.
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Feb 15, 2010 06:33
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