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I don't have the experience but I reckon I'm going to bring more benefit to the company than the lowest salary. I just didn't know how to handle it because I'm so desperate for this job that I don't want to push my luck. I can sit comfy on what they've offered, but I've got debts that I've accrued during my unemployment, so having a higher salary to pay those off quicker would be nice. Though £22k is what my ex was offered for graduate software development, so I guess that's the going rate for graduates. I'm just worried about negotiating now in case I make them change their mind. However, the hiring manager did say they appreciate it's a bit difficult to discuss salary when the role isn't completely clear yet. So I'm hoping once I see the official job offer where everything is outlined I'll be able to come back with a different salary request.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:41
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Get the offer in hand. Even if you try to negotiate and they won't budge, it's extremely unlikely they'll use that to rescind their offer unless you are being difficult/unreasonable.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:44
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Qubee posted:I got offered the non-existent job. Thanks so much everyone for the words of advice and motivational support! I followed your advice but it was still awful waiting the whole weekend. Hiring manager told me they've just gotta get a PC ordered and set up for me and they gotta buy the software license for £5000 (no idea why she informed me) and then I'll be good to start. Should know exactly when by tomorrow lunch. They offered me £22,000, and the median salary for a CAD Engineer is £25,000. But I told her honestly that I'm not going to discuss whether I want a higher or lower salary and that I'm more than happy with the £22k (because I've had gently caress-all luck these past 6 months landing a job, so I'm not going to jeopardize my offer by asking for more). The negotiation thread! Well you already gave a verbal on what you'd accept, so negotiating anything is hard at this point. I understand your reasons for doing that, but you have relatively little leverage. Usually its easier to look for a raise externally. That said, it doesn't hurt to ask. I know engineers are paid less in the UK but $31K USD is on the very low end of a CAD jockey job. You'd get a high school graduate who taught themselves CAD for that. No way a BSME would take that, they start around $60K on the lower end.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:57
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CarForumPoster posted:The negotiation thread! see I wish I had more offers lined up and had been to tonnes of interviews because I'd have had the confidence to actually negotiate. I think I'll discuss it with them when the contract comes through as hopefully that will paint a clearer picture of what they expect of me and what my responsibilities will be. I'd be fine on this salary under the pretense that I then get a big boost after probation is up to show I'm up to the task and an able member of the team. I'd say I don't have much experience being in a work environment but in terms of using the software, I'd be at an intermediary skill level, compared to my mates at uni who had very basic knowledge of it. feels like I'm lowballing myself for sure. I'll talk with them tomorrow and just be honest and see what's what. Qubee fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 18:24
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Academic experience is only part of it; they're also going to have house styles and custom macros and specific workflows you're going to have to learn, so there's an adjustment period where you'll be catching up with the institutional knowledge the rest of the office has.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:29
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carnassials posted:Thanks for all comments guys. You've got me thinking. your best bet for PhD success is finding a good advisor. if the advisor likes you and thinks you've got potential they'll tell you exactly what hoops you need to jump through to get into their program. look at fields/subfields you want to be in, figure out what the hot topics of research are, and see who's publishing what looks like cool stuff. use your business-world skills to start a conversation with them, whether it's going through their department or reaching out directly. If you get blown off then gently caress em. things to be aware of: - having a quality advisor is more important than being at a prestigious school - the quality of the department does matter though, as you'll want to get something out of the classes you have to take and a poo poo department with a bad political atmosphere can make your life hell - advisors who aren't tenured yet are under a LOT of pressure to publish. this pressure will flow downhill. if they suck they won't get tenure and then you're hosed. - advisors who are at the end of their career can be awesome and laid back and have great connections, but you need to graduate before they retire or you're hosed - check out the professor's lab's record: have they graduated any PhD's before? what's the ratio of masters to PhD degrees their lab has graduated? are there any active students in the lab? - does the lab have funding? how long will that funding last? who's paying for it? a decent stream of government money can be harder to come by than corporate money, and depending on the field and research, corporate dollars may tarnish your reputation upon graduation (e.g. as a technology or corporate partisan) but may also provide a straightforward path to industry employment. you just really don't want to be the kid they throw to the sharks at a major conference in order to push a biased agenda. if the lab is doing climate change-adjacent work with money from the Exxon Mobile Foundation ask a LOT of questions before signing up. the importance of most of these things may not be apparent until you're three years in, at which point it's too late, so choose wisely! however, if you land in the right department with the right advisor it will all be worth it.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:51
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Spime Wrangler posted:your best bet for PhD success is finding a good advisor. if the advisor likes you and thinks you've got potential they'll tell you exactly what hoops you need to jump through to get into their program. look at fields/subfields you want to be in, figure out what the hot topics of research are, and see who's publishing what looks like cool stuff. use your business-world skills to start a conversation with them, whether it's going through their department or reaching out directly. If you get blown off then gently caress em. edit: BTW, you can absolutely 100% contact such professors before you even apply to a school and ask about reserving a spot in their lab. Not every school does this, but the rainmakers (who are the guys and gals you want to work for) absolutely can do this for you, if you're a strong prospect. Doubly so if you have some sort of under-represented status (race, gender, disability, etc) in your field because they can absolutely get a training grant for you. God I wish someone had told me this when I started grad school. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 22:04
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Qubee posted:see I wish I had more offers lined up and had been to tonnes of interviews because I'd have had the confidence to actually negotiate. I think I'll discuss it with them when the contract comes through as hopefully that will paint a clearer picture of what they expect of me and what my responsibilities will be. I'd be fine on this salary under the pretense that I then get a big boost after probation is up to show I'm up to the task and an able member of the team. Also, if someone tries to punish you for negotiating, they're a complete rear end in a top hat who won't be any nicer to you when you're working for them. Even if you're completely desperate, a simple, "Thanks for the offer of 22k, but it appears the median salary for this position at my experience level is 25k. Can we make that work?" could be the easiest 3k/year you ever made. Don't make excuses or hem and haw or give ultimatums. Just ask politely. Also, read the negotiation thread.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:10
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Dik Hz posted:always negotiate I strongly agree with these points and the result of negotiating both when joining, during and leaving jobs has been a house down payment of extra pretax money/perks over the course of only ~6 years. The "if they wont let you negotiate theyre an rear end in a top hat" point is also true, but you gotta eat. I've been there, I sure a gently caress didnt want to move back home. You didnt want to negotiate this one and that is okay. Ask politely for a raise now and when they say "Lets wee where we are at X date and then it doesnt happen", bounce to a new job in 13 months.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:51
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Spime Wrangler posted:- having a quality advisor is more important than being at a prestigious school While true, this is not to say that school prestige doesn’t matter. Academics and others to a lesser extent are obsessed with school prestige. Dik Hz posted:What you study is completely and utterly irrelevant to your future career. All that matters is getting the degree. Clarification: this might be true for your particular Ph.D. thesis topic, although if you want to go to academia having an amazing and successful Ph.D. thesis really really improves your resume. I would say that area of study definitely matters though. A Ph.D. is not just a certification.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:14
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silence_kit posted:While true, this is not to say that school prestige doesn’t matter. Academics and others to a lesser extent are obsessed with school prestige. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 29, 2020 |
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Jan 29, 2020 04:04
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Qubee posted:see I wish I had more offers lined up and had been to tonnes of interviews because I'd have had the confidence to actually negotiate. I think I'll discuss it with them when the contract comes through as hopefully that will paint a clearer picture of what they expect of me and what my responsibilities will be. I'd be fine on this salary under the pretense that I then get a big boost after probation is up to show I'm up to the task and an able member of the team. A bit late to the thread, but you'll be fine. Keep your ear to the ground, learn the trade, do a bunch of the required reading in your spare time. In 6 months, you can renegotiate or leave. In terms of starting your career, your starting salary in tech doesn't really affect more than your lifestyle. You get jobs based on your professional reputation and your ability to show that you can do the work and deliver the product.
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Jan 29, 2020 05:35
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Cheers for all the advice, I'm okay with how things turned out. Aye I could have negotiated better but I'm in it for the experience, and it's a part of engineering I really love doing. Yeah it sucks I'll be earning less than I could have but it's not too bad. If I wanted to make wads of cash I could just go back to the Middle East. I asked about probationary periods and they said it's 6 months, and I asked if there would be a pay review at the end of it and they said yes, so I'll renegotiate then. How long should you stay in a company for it to look good on your CV?
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Jan 29, 2020 14:06
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Dik Hz posted:Counterpoint: Academic jobs require postdocs. If you have an amazing PhD and a lovely postdoc, you won't get hired. If you have an uninspiring PhD thesis and an amazing postdoc, you will get hired. The downside of loving up your PhD is wasting 6 years and not getting any degree. The downside of loving up a postdoc is doing another postdoc. Therefor, you should just get the PhD and quickly and easily as possible and put your effort into landing a really good postdoc or two. Fair for academia, but if you're heading out to private industry (as I would expect most engineering PhDs are) then your advisor's research area can make all the difference in the world. Researching something interesting to industry (particularly with industry funding and all the connections that go with it) can get you multiple job offers before you've even defended. It'd be an uphill battle to try to get a job in say Pharma when your thesis revolved around novel fracking techniques.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:17
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Qubee posted:How long should you stay in a company for it to look good on your CV? Not sure of UK culture on this. In the US the min is generally a year with no gap between current and next one and a string of 1 yearish tenancies is a red flag. 1 year out of school followed by 3 years here and 2 years there, especially if you obviously left one to immediately start another, is a common thing I see in engineers who move to make salary gains. Hopefully a UK goon can chime in.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:32
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DaveSauce posted:Fair for academia, but if you're heading out to private industry (as I would expect most engineering PhDs are) then your advisor's research area can make all the difference in the world. Researching something interesting to industry (particularly with industry funding and all the connections that go with it) can get you multiple job offers before you've even defended. Source: I hire PhDs.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:51
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Qubee posted:Cheers for all the advice, I'm okay with how things turned out. Aye I could have negotiated better but I'm in it for the experience, and it's a part of engineering I really love doing. Yeah it sucks I'll be earning less than I could have but it's not too bad. If I wanted to make wads of cash I could just go back to the Middle East. I asked about probationary periods and they said it's 6 months, and I asked if there would be a pay review at the end of it and they said yes, so I'll renegotiate then. UK goon chiming in. If I see any less than a year on a CV it’s going to raise red flags with me, even two years to be honest. Unless you’re a contractor brought in to do a specific job. I take it you’re in oil, as you’ve referred to the Middle East, if you have any specific questions to do with UK oil industry send me a PM, I’ve been in the industry across different bits for the past 13 years. Question for the thread - it’s coming up to performance management season, and the question of training courses will be raised. I don’t feel like I need to go on technical ones, but I’m really keen on softer skills. My current role requires a lot of delivering through others, but the others don’t work for my organisation. I really feel like I could do with an arguing course, where I’m put in a meeting with a bunch of actors who take opposing positions to me and try and get a response from me. Almost like media training, but not. I also feel like I need to be polished a lot more. I look to my director and MD and they’re very eloquent and can communicate well, whereas I’m just a smart mouthed Engineer who can’t shut up. If I’m wanting to be taken seriously in the organisation, I need to come across more professionally, rather than giggling when we mention flange or nipple (not exactly.
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Jan 29, 2020 15:05
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Oodles posted:rather than giggling when we mention flange or nipple (not exactly. Everyone laughs when you talk about the big nuts you need to get.
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Jan 29, 2020 15:11
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Oodles posted:Question for the thread - it’s coming up to performance management season, and the question of training courses will be raised. I don’t feel like I need to go on technical ones, but I’m really keen on softer skills. My current role requires a lot of delivering through others, but the others don’t work for my organisation. I really feel like I could do with an arguing course, where I’m put in a meeting with a bunch of actors who take opposing positions to me and try and get a response from me. Almost like media training, but not. Highly recommend beyond reason. I've used the specific tactics in beyond reason to work together with people who entered into whatever we were doing with a highly adversarial, zero sum position and gotten something that works for both of us in the end. Its an entertaining listen/read to boot. https://www.audible.com/pd/Beyond-Reason-Audiobook/B002V1CIV0
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Jan 29, 2020 15:56
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Oodles posted:Question for the thread - it’s coming up to performance management season, and the question of training courses will be raised. I don’t feel like I need to go on technical ones, but I’m really keen on softer skills. My current role requires a lot of delivering through others, but the others don’t work for my organisation. I really feel like I could do with an arguing course, where I’m put in a meeting with a bunch of actors who take opposing positions to me and try and get a response from me. Almost like media training, but not. Course details: here
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Jan 30, 2020 16:03
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First day of work tomorrow, I'll be making parts from engineering drawings using Creo, and incorporating PCB designs into it. I've got a decent grasp of SolidWorks, so I reckon I'll be like a duck on water when it comes to using Creo. I've never designed PCBs before, but the guy I'm working with said it's a cakewalk and he'll show me how it's done. I'm excited cause it's basically like solving puzzles: looking at an engineering drawing and figuring out the best approach to design it on Creo. Any advice from you guys? Some simple material I can read up on? My biggest worry is turning up and being a drain. I really hope I can start my first day off with minimal babysitting. Best case scenario is I'm sat down and can crack straight on with work. Worst case is I'm given a task and can only manage the basics before needing to ask the other guy - that I'm supposed to be helping with the workload - lots of questions and advice.
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Feb 2, 2020 12:44
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Qubee posted:
Congrats on the job and starting tomorrow. Your mentor is (probably) already planning on babysitting you for 1-2 months at least so use this time to learn as much as possible. You won't reduce workload for a while. Depending on the company, you might not even see this other person on your first day since you'll be busy with HR /IT stuff. Ask questions if you don't understand. Try and figure it out first if it's reasonable. Ask for help if you need it.
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Feb 2, 2020 13:10
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Solidworks is like a simpler Creo. Creo takes longer to master, but much more powerful once you learn the systems. For basic modeling, the fundamentals are the same. I'd say the biggest difference when making parts is that in Creo you don't have to designate an extrude or revolve as adding or removing material until you are making the feature (and can switch between the two). The hole creation tool is also pretty different, but I suspect that the company has a particular way of making holes, so no harm asking about that. Also ask about how they like to make patterns; everyone has their personal preference and some companies forbid certain techniques (CAT  ).Making assemblies is a big difference between the two systems. Creo treats the constraints as a feature of the part being assembled while Solidworks treats the constraints as their own objects in the model tree. Solidworks will let you constrain previous parts to parts further down the model tree where Creo strictly forbids it. Solidworks is a lot more free-form but prone to bugs. Creo is much more ridgid but more stable. Things like layers and simplified reps and family tables are powerful, but way more in depth than a reply can contain and also tend to be company specific.
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Feb 2, 2020 14:20
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Qubee posted:Any advice from you guys? Some simple material I can read up on? The best source of info is probably going to be the company's own previous projects; ask for the project names/numbers of completed representative projects and take some time reading through the submission packages, looking at how the CAD files are structured, trying to recreate existing geometry yourself, and so forth.
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Feb 2, 2020 16:03
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Mr Newsman posted:Congrats on the job and starting tomorrow. Seconding this - I know you want to be a superstar from day one, but at this point in your career, hiring you means they're committing to putting in effort to make you productive. It's not you, it's an every company thing - like, I know you're confident you have a good knowledge base to apply (and you do) but even if you had a background in Creo specifically and PCBs specifically, they're still going to have to put time into you to get you up to speed. Don't feel bad about this. Don't feel like you're an impostor if it takes you a while to get up to speed; it's normal. Training you is part of the unwritten social contract and is a good thing and unless someone has been very dishonest in the hiring process (you to them, them to you, themselves to themselves) they know it and are prepared for it.
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Feb 2, 2020 16:11
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mekilljoydammit posted:I know you're confident you have a good knowledge base to apply (and you do) but even if you had a background in Creo specifically and PCBs specifically, they're still going to have to put time into you to get you up to speed. I had a semester of ProE (long before Creo or even Wildfire  ) and used it a bunch for my senior project. I learned more in my first week on the job than I did in months of learning in college.I took a Solidworks course years later and could have picked up all they taught me all semester in a few hours of dedicated use.
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Feb 2, 2020 16:49
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Always remember google is your friend for simple Creo questions. Do a quick google search before asking your co worker how to perform specific steps in Creo. They may also have some Creo training manuals you could utilize.
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Feb 2, 2020 20:11
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nbakyfan posted:Always remember google is your friend for simple Creo questions. Do a quick google search before asking your co worker how to perform specific steps in Creo. They may also have some Creo training manuals you could utilize. Google has been great so far, I Googled drawing abbreviations so I could understand what they meant in the different drawings. I'll be updating a bunch of old archived drawings, so I'm looking forward to that. First day was phenomenal, couldn't have asked for a better one. They sorted me with a really powerful PC and ample desk space, when I thought I'd be walking in and sitting at a tiny little desk with an ancient PC. Everyone was really welcoming and the environment was laid back, friendly and full of jokes that made the day fly by. Spoke to tonnes of people in the office and the shop floor, overall great bunch of people who all seem to want the best for me. Guy I was brought in to assist is an absolute champ, likes to be a ball buster and give you tough love but he's a big softie, really feel like he's taken me under his wing. I misplaced my keys and wallet at hometime and he came trundling back to the office to make sure I was okay, what a sweetie. Office gossip is off the loving charts though, everyone has something in their closet. Lots of trash talk about the bosses. Not sure how I feel about it but I'll laugh along to fit in but I don't take part in that stuff. Political correctness is also something that doesn't exist, which is a double edged sword.
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Feb 4, 2020 04:45
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Spime Wrangler posted:your best bet for PhD success is finding a good advisor. if the advisor likes you and thinks you've got potential they'll tell you exactly what hoops you need to jump through to get into their program. look at fields/subfields you want to be in, figure out what the hot topics of research are, and see who's publishing what looks like cool stuff. use your business-world skills to start a conversation with them, whether it's going through their department or reaching out directly. If you get blown off then gently caress em. Thanks for all the insight. I remember hearing the same back when I was looking in to chemistry (i dont want to dedicate 5 years of my life to specific chem problems). The thing I always didn't understand is where do you find all this type of information? Even in the most prestigious schools the research pages are pretty anemic. And it's not like I'm currently on a campus where I can go schmooze with the faculty...
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Feb 9, 2020 21:34
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carnassials posted:Thanks for all the insight. I remember hearing the same back when I was looking in to chemistry (i dont want to dedicate 5 years of my life to specific chem problems). I'd look for: [*]Active grants. And historical data. Any prof you want to work for will be proudly proclaiming these. [*]Active graduate students and a full-time lab manager. Not the lab manager who refills soap containers. The type of lab manager who runs the lab. Good professors don't run their own labs. They hire someone to do it. It's also a sign of good funding. [*]Tenure. Don't work for an associate or assistant professor. Full stop. [*]A history of graduating students. Ask the students in the lab. They'll know. I keep saying this, and I can't stress it enough: The topic of your dissertation is completely irrelevant. Do the needful and join a lab strategically for your future instead of getting tricked into thinking your dissertation topic will influence your future career path.
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Feb 11, 2020 02:04
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The guy I'm working under (a CAD Drafter of 20 years) surprised me with a serious sit down in a meeting room today. I was a bit blindsided by it. I think he was going to let me go but backed out of it, he even admitted to being really bad at this sort of thing. He was asking me engineering questions like if I know the differences between types of casting methods, different metal types, general questions about how certain techniques work (like when to MIG or TIG weld). He asked how I'd calculate the circumference of a circle if I was given the diameter, and I stupidly said "get the radius by halving the diameter, then do pi r^2" and he said that's the area. I answered him honestly and said I've touched on almost every topic at uni, but it's only ever been rote memorization to pass an assignment / exam. He was saying that these are things I need to know off the top of my head, and I told him I wouldn't be capable of doing that right at this moment, but I knew where to look to get the answers. He said he knows nowadays you can just Google what you need, but he said for the role I'm in, it's not good enough. I told him that the whole reason I was brought in was to help him out, and if he feels I'm being a deadweight, that I totally understand. But he said it's not that. I'm very confused because he ended the meeting because I think he was as uncomfortable as I was. I asked him on the walk back to the office if it was a surprise when I came in for an interview, he said it wasn't (I thought maybe the owners had dropped me on him without properly discussing it with him first). I asked him what he had planned on doing before I came along, and he said he was going to get an 18 year old apprentice and train them up. So I'm not sure. Maybe he doesn't want to commit because he feels like I'll disappear after a year or two. I've been hitting roadblocks: he's set me a task like making an assembly on Creo, and I tackled it and was making really good progress. But then his original assembly I was using as a reference ended up getting all messed with and I wasn't sure why (he pointed me at one of his assemblies and told me to use it as a reference and assemble it myself from the ground up). He wasn't sure why it was happening either. So I got cancelled off that task. He then told me to look through all the old drawings and read the pdf comments he'd left on some of them and make the corrections. I made a spreadsheet with his original drawings and my revised drawings linked side by side, and I did it this way because he's really busy so I figured in his free time he could hop on the spreadsheet and check my revisions (rather than me constantly asking if what I've done is up to his standard), and then check a box next to it letting me know it meets his standards and I can overwrite the files. But even that ended in a roadblock because any dimension I changed on the copied part still referenced back to the original part so I was changing his originals whether I wanted to or not. So I decided the best thing I can do is just model parts using his drawings, working my way up from easy to difficult models. That has been the only thing that has gone well. But everything else has been a poo poo show. I keep making dumb mistakes when he trusts me with an exercise, like making one incorrect measurement for a jig that had real-life consequences (two products came out unsatisfactorily because of my jig). I corrected my mistake but I shouldn't have made it in the first place, it was amateur. I had a task given to me today, super simple. I made a mistake on that right off the bat by mixing up width and depth. As soon as I showed him the drawing and said it didn't seem right, he was like "No, this is wrong, it's totally the opposite of what I asked", but I managed to fix it very quickly. This was about 20 minutes before the serious sitdown. I'm at a loss, really. I don't know whether I'm really bad at what I'm doing (I like to think I'm good with CAD, but my mistakes recently say otherwise), or if their expectations are set too high for a university graduate. I don't know what'll happen from here on out, but I plan on talking to him about it tomorrow hopefully. My role hasn't even properly been ironed out and I don't have a job contract yet so I don't even know what they're fully expecting of me. I originally thought I'd just be updating old drawings into 3D models and working on tasks he gave me, but he hasn't really given me much direction in the 2 weeks I've been working here. He's told me to go through the software tutorials but it feels like he's finding busywork to keep me out the way rather than include me. Feeling really disappointed in myself to be honest, but I had completely different expectations going into this job. I thought I'd be right under his wing for a few weeks to learn the ropes and get up to speed but I've been thrown in the deep end. Sidenote: I tried getting the diameter of a wheel by measuring the circumference. Dumb mistakes like this that I wouldn't ever make on my own time, but for some reason seems to happen a lot at work. Qubee fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 19:36
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Everyone has a few bad days. I don't think you'll meet many engineers or techs who haven't had a major screwup in their career. They key is to stay communicative, and be ready with "this is how this happened, and this is how I'll prevent the same mistake from happening in the future." If you show progress, people like that. What people hate is when people shrug off their mistakes and change nothing. At this point, just keep chugging. If it's really bothering you, it probably wouldn't hurt to sit down with him and hammer out a quality control routine to make sure that everything you have gets proper review before anything goes to production, and to get feedback on particular things you can improve on. Don't feel bad about the occasional transposing of numbers or miscalculation - the whole point of supervisory review is to catch these. Obviously having fewer mistakes is better, but your boss doesn't expect you to be perfect and neither should you.
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Feb 13, 2020 20:05
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Why is poo poo being built without anyone checking your work? Why are drawings not going through a 2+ stage sign-off process? Why isn’t it a requirement that a senior engineer approves any design before release so that they wear the responsibility of it being safe, to spec, etc.? You’re clearly not getting the support you need. We rotate grads between teams every six months and I don’t expect them to be useful for the first 1-2 months of that. Having said that, check your poo poo yourself before you hand it off for checking by someone else. You’ll stop a lot of your fuckups if you actually take a second to pause and think.
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Feb 14, 2020 04:02
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You’ve been working there for less than a month. I think maybe he has high expectations of a uni graduate. You gave the answer I’d expect about knowing where to look for the information. That’s what engineering trains you for. Testing you is a bit of a dick move, was he in the interview? It’s as if he’s trying to get his one up on you. Also, I’d be expecting all of your work to be scrutinised before being used for building/issued. I get that you want to do the job quickly, I’m the same. But sometimes in the haste to get the job out (and show that you can do it) you sometimes gloss over it. I’d encourage you to check and recheck your work. If there’s also someone else there in a senior role who could help you? Also part of work is getting to know your colleagues to understand their strengths and weaknesses, so if you know someone who’s good at something ask for their help. Also, is there a training scheme at your work? If you’re a graduate I’d expect them to be helping you out some. Is there a training department (probably not), is there someone in HR who can help you? Or, if you’re part of a union the rep might be able to help you out? Conversely he might just be a dick, how is he towards others in the organisation? And, there could be the underlying feeling of always being scrutinised. I get that, I have a general anxiety in work - every time someone goes into my bosses office I worry they’re speaking about me. Oodles fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Feb 14, 2020 |
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Feb 14, 2020 09:07
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Any consequences of mistakes you make aren’t really your fault if you don’t get any oversight and have 0 experience. That guy’s a huge dumbass for expecting you to do anything but poop and pee and gently caress things up for at least 3 months.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:08
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I get a little annoyed when the new guy I’m supervising asks me where something is for the 5th time or for help installing windows on a test server but I’d never put one in the position where they could cause real issues before they were well trained and comfortable with the work. That’s definitely on a crappy supervisor. My manager would rip me a new one, not the new guy if that happened. This also kind of shows there are more bad supervisors and managers than good ones in engineering unfortunately. I have had to really work on figuring out how to best help new hires ramp up and I’m still not great at it. Anyone know any good resources for someone who’s not a manager but has a few junior engineers reporting to them? Because honestly some days I just want to lose my poo poo. But that’s more me than them I reckon.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:28
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priznat posted:I get a little annoyed when the new guy I’m supervising asks me where something is for the 5th time or for help installing windows on a test server but I’d never put one in the position where they could cause real issues before they were well trained and comfortable with the work. That’s definitely on a crappy supervisor. My manager would rip me a new one, not the new guy if that happened. IDK if Qubee has said it but this all sounds very small company. I'm guessing there's not layers of supervisors, or even experienced managers. E.g. I have trouble believing a competent, good manager has instead decided to be CAD jockey for two decades without eating a gun.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:45
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CarForumPoster posted:IDK if Qubee has said it but this all sounds very small company. I'm guessing there's not layers of supervisors, or even experienced managers. That's no excuse. Any engineer should know good and drat well that people make mistakes. New engineers make mistakes, and 20+ year experts make mistakes. If you're running ANY size engineering department and building stuff without any sort of check system in place, ESPECIALLY for new grads, you're a horseshit manager, and honestly probably a bad engineer as well. Sadly, this is the most common type of engineering manager I've encountered. They're promoted strictly due to seniority, with no other qualifications required, and they don't know the first thing about leadership or management.
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Feb 16, 2020 01:33
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It's a shitshow. I've left replying too late so I can't answer every one of you, but the gist of it is: it's a small business consisting of ~40 people. Most employees are shopfloor workers who are either machining, welding, bending or assembling. There's a top floor office that handles admin / accounts / company management with about 8 people. I'm in a small team of 7 who handle the big stuff, but it basically all hinges on one CAD designer (the guy I'm working for) cause he does the job of 5 different specializations (it's bonkers) and basically is the one guy that actually makes the company able to take work on cause he models it all from start to finish and figures out how we can manufacture the stuff. My direct superior is the CAD designer, followed by the boss (but he's too busy [and lacking in technical skill] to check my drawings). CAD designer is usually bogged down with work so he doesn't have time to check my work or is so busy he didn't notice when I said I was finished. I thought the blame was entirely on me, but now I realize there should be a system in place to actively check new employers work before it gets sent out, I feel slightly less bad. The other people in the team aren't CAD related (one's purchase orders, the others are all CAM dudes). It was definitely a learning experience though and snapped me out of "uni mentality" where I was so used to someone constantly watching over my shoulder. poo poo I do now has real-world consequences, and getting chewed out is a good way of knowing that. I think he may feel his position is threatened cause they brought a "fancy" uni graduate who has had training on CAD software in, but they're all overestimating my abilities cause I think almost all the people here started off as apprentices and worked their way up and don't realise how little uni actually prepares you for real work. It's basically just a piece of paper that says "This person can wrap their head around complicated engineering theory and can also pass exams by memorizing". I get the feeling he purposefully doesn't teach me well because he doesn't want the threat of replacement. He's definitely in a dominant position that lets him go toe-to-toe with the owners without facing backlash, and I feel like me being added to the mix poses a problem for him down the line cause he'd no longer have leverage if I'm also capable of doing what he does (albeit slower and with mistakes lol). He definitely overestimates my skill. I've noticed he can't really explain or teach things to me because he's self-taught in the software and probably learned himself as he's gone along, so it's like a game of cat and mouse where he doesn't want me to know that or something (or he doesn't want the magic curtain to fall when the new kid picks it up really quickly)? And I'm on a pittance of a salary so I reckon if he did properly train me and I was doing similar work to him in <1 year, the owners would have a serious reconsideration of the salary they're paying him. He's not a dick, he gets on well with people, but he's very sarcastic with everyone and uses banter as an excuse for being kind of an rear end sometimes. But everyone does it at the office. It's just that kind of environment, rough humour. I don't mind it. I try not to ask him questions too much because a lot of the time he won't know how to fix the problem and I don't want to make him feel embarrassed for not knowing or anything. There's no training scheme, and I'm literally only working at this point to pay bills. I'm no longer together with my gf and she was the entire reason I moved to this city. So as soon as I can, I'm handing in my notice and going back to the Middle East where I can actually work in a proper company with 12-month training schemes where I'll learn, develop and become a better engineer. I feel like a chump cause I gave up a guaranteed 3.5k starting salary job with 0% tax for someone who ditched me after 6 months of my rear end being unemployed just to be with her. It was rough, especially realizing I've wasted all this time when I could have been halfway through a year of training. And now we're stuck in the same house with no way out until the tenancy contract finishes. I was brought on as Mechanical Engineering CAD support and I've spent two whole days doing a bizarre mix of civil engineering / surveying and architecture. They want to increase the width of a gate and remove a sharp turn so large vehicles don't have problems getting in. So they had me go out with a tape measure and take notes on the dimensions of all the fences, gates, etc. and model it up so the owner can approach the neighbouring lot and present the idea of what it is they want. And I'm scrabbling trying to make it look halfway decent despite having almost useless tools, and everything is hosed and I don't understand why they wouldn't just hire a professional to figure out how they want to do this instead of sticking me on it. I ended up using AutoCAD LT which is something I've never used before and as far as I can tell is some sort of software that architects use? Cause I've been staring at the company floorplan on it for the past two days figuring out how to make this work, all whilst knowing it's pointless cause extending our gate means theirs gets narrower and they have large vehicles that come in and out as well. The pay wouldn't be so bad if I felt like I was actively improving and being taught useful skills. But most of my days consist of practicing modelling on sketches the designer has done, or I'm sitting twiddling my thumbs when I'm bored of that. Other employees are in the same boat too, supposedly the company has months of slow work and then a few weeks of hectic work. So we're all just sort of sitting on our asses without anything useful to do, whilst designer guy is working manically getting stuff done. Genuinely considering doing an online course or something engineering-related whilst at work, so I can at least get paid to better myself. Qubee fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Feb 17, 2020 |
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Feb 17, 2020 20:02
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Sounds like a typical small company! (the fence thing is totally something I'd expect to farm out to a new employee during a slow period) I'd get to know some of the shop guys and being comfortable asking them questions (if you're not taking all their time). I find shop guys the best people to learn from. Just "hey, how would you like to see this detailed?" would get you far.
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Feb 17, 2020 20:33
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