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Korwen posted:Duplicolor Sandable Primer is literally the exact same thing as P3 White Primer, just with a different label slapped on it. I buy mine at either O'Reilly or Advanced Automotive. I've used this stuff and it's quite nice when handled with a light touch. The fact that it is sandable is both boon and bane. Nice because it should hold up to handling a little bit more, but not so nice since it can fill faster than finer primers.
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# ¿ Oct 24, 2013 05:05 |
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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:41 |
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Hey there painting goons! So, I haven't done any hobby stuff for like 3 years or so, and all my original hobby stuff is locked up in a storage unit several states away. However, recently I decided to get back into thangs and so I ended up going in half on a Warmachine two-player battle box. I've found that polishing pins plus rotary tools equals Privateer Press Plastic Prepping Paradise. I use a medium grit polishing pin in one direction lifts the mold line up into a burr that I can subsequently go over again in the opposite direction to finalize the finish/remove the burr. Same technique with files, along the line in one direction, then back the opposite direction filing at a 180 degree angle from the original angle. Let me know if those directions aren't clear.
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# ¿ Oct 24, 2013 05:10 |
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Slimnoid posted:How long do you let it soak? Same as if you were stripping a miniature, and no, with most chrome parts on airbrushes it doesn't damage anything. I had that problem once when I first started using airbrushes. What I discovered was that one of the paints I used masqueraded as the internal color of the nozzle cap restricting the airflow around the nozzle enough that it wasn't passing the tip of the nozzle reliably. This created a lack of vacuum to pull the paint through the nozzle. That was a gravity fed airbrush and that is the number one reason of restricted paint flow on that particular one. Paint does get into the cap eventually and it subsequently restricts the quality of the airflow past the nozzle... If you don't strip with simple green, I'd give it 48 hours to be super sure the paint is loosened/dissolved.
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# ¿ Oct 26, 2013 07:04 |
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IrvingWashington posted:where to buy brushes question Dickblick.com https://www.aswexpress.com cheapjoes.com I sign up for the newsletters with a burn account and wait for the deals. When the deal comes out I check to see how much they marked the brushes up vs. the other site's prices. I check those three at a minimum before purchasing. E:fixed a URL MisterG fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Oct 27, 2013 |
# ¿ Oct 27, 2013 07:15 |
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IrvingWashington posted:This one is really artsupplywarehouse.com, right? Oh crap, it's https://www.aswexpress.com Apologies
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# ¿ Oct 27, 2013 08:55 |
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dexefiend posted:Airbrush Chat: Airbrush Chat: Sorry I'm late into this chat. You won't just avoid sinus cancer you will literally save brain cells and lung problems too, not to mention you'll avoid injuring the ones you love and any other second-hand fume recipients. Most compressed "spray anything" paint supplies are toxic and the toxicity varies by brand and paint within each brand (different propellents and different mediums; black primer is often more toxic than white primer for example), but it's just toxic. Avoid indoor spraying without a respirator Avoid indoor spraying without a PROPER ventilation hood and spray booth that has an appropriate amount of CFM. (Cubic Feet per Minute) Avoid excessive fans that minimize the impact of the ventilation booth & hood. Read the labels of the stuff you are using and follow the instructions to the letter and to the intent. LIVE Healthy - Please!
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# ¿ Nov 1, 2013 01:38 |
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Tyranid Painting: The most stark contrasts and bright colors will occur with complementary colors. They end up looking really bright next to each other. Black and White really is the highest contrast, but the way that one was done the white highlighting on the black de-saturated the black. Smaller highlights and glossier paint will increase the contrast back up and possibly shorter transitions in some of the places as well. All the examples are better than anything I can find fast, so I'll leave it with those points.
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# ¿ Nov 1, 2013 02:37 |
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El Estrago Bonito posted:You either need to Matte Varnish or greatly adjust the position of your Lightbox lamps. You're getting a washed out yellow tinge on the photos (bad) and a large amount of glare off of the miniature (also bad). The choice of background is also fighting the miniatures color scheme. Look for a slightly darker background; light grey or medium grey depending on your definition of those, and move from there. If you are getting a tint based on the type of light-bulb you are using check your camera for a custom white-balance setting, place an entirely white card in front of the camera (so it's the only thing in the viewscreen) and hit the custom white balance option/button. It should adjust for the bias of the camera and the bulbs you are using. IF you are using different bulbs, fix that as well by using all the same type. Different bulb types will really mess with the color balance of the image.
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# ¿ Nov 1, 2013 02:42 |
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Edit: ^^^^ that especially.Oxford Comma posted:Ok, its not just me, then. I wonder if I can still paint on it and have things work out alright or if I need to reprime. ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT! If it is still tacky, then it is still drying and you will likely encounter a crackling effect for any water based (faster drying) paints you put on it.
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# ¿ Nov 2, 2013 18:31 |
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berzerkmonkey posted:richyp If there is no limit to funding, then model railroad ballast comes in some fairly fine grit. There are also some Liquitex brand artist mediums that are really fine. You need to water them down until they are runny. At that point they are self leveling. The artist mediums are VERY sticky, so I'd look at the ballast first. If you are looking for spending less, I'll defer to others.It is *possible* to use a putty like milliput grey to fill in textures, but getting it perfectly flat with the mini already attached takes practice.
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# ¿ Nov 2, 2013 23:57 |
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berzerkmonkey posted:Pigments are great - unless you want to ever handle your model. <snip> you can't really apply any varnish to your model, or you blow the dust off. Some guys use hairspray to affix the powders, but I think you have to spray from a pretty good distance. Pigments are pretty much meant for display pieces. The pigments I use are all sticky to some degree. Some are even water soluble so you can add a dab of water to facilitate sticking the pigment to the surface. I've had success sealing them with both brush on or spray sealer. Of course, I take care when doing so. Definitely read reviews on the pigments that are out there to learn what characteristics they have before purchasing. Also consider buying a few different brands to get familiar with them and decide for yourself which you like most. BULBASAUR posted:This is pro advice. You can also use alcohol to temporarily fix pigment on earlier stages (for stuff like mud) before varnishing at a later stage. Alas no matter how you fix pigments they will loose some of their color and dustiness. The only way around this is to varnish your model and brush the pigment onto the model while its still sticky (very hard to do) Could it be the thickness of the pigment that is the issue you are describing? I have not needed to put the pigment on with wet varnish, but I do multiple thin layers with the pigments while sealing as I go. berzerkmonkey posted:Has anyone tried airbrushing with the cheap paints you get from Michaels (like Applebarrel, or Ceramcoat)? I think I'm just going to try to airbrush a concrete color onto my Zombicide bases, then maybe sponge highlights to get a concrete effect. From what I'm reading on model railroading forums, those cheap paints have some pretty good concrete-like colors, but I'd rather airbrush if I can, rather than have to hand brush all those minis. Obviously, I'll thin the paint, but I'm concerned that the pigments won't be fine enough and I'll constantly be clogging the brush. I've tried Delta Ceramcoat, Apple Barrel and Aleene's. Meh, No! and Meh. They just aren't formulated for it. The comment that it'll teach you how to make a good mix is spot on. You will suffer a horrible clog if it's too thick, you will have colored water if it's too thin and the sweet spot will be like an invertebrate trying to stick a landing off parallel bars.
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# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 02:18 |
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BULBASAUR posted:I think its more the filter effect you get by covering the pigment with a slightly opaque liquid. Here's what I mean: Thank you! I'm definitely going to experiment with different sealers now. I haven't used hairspray in ages and have been using either Testors dullcote or Reaper's brush on sealer (diluted) and definitely did not consider taking a photo (or paying attention apparently) as I went through the layers. Of course, that just reminds me of my bad habit of not taking notes either. I have gotten better at that since I saw a friend use his phone's camera to keep track of the paints he used on his miniatures; He placed the miniature next to the color choices, snapped a shot and named the image after the name of the figure. Instant color notes!
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# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 04:21 |
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radlum posted:I don't know if I need glasses or if this is normal, but I have some issues with little details, like mouths, eyes, etc. I've found that an optiVISOR with the appropriate magnification (Look at how far away you hold the miniature and get a magnifier that matches that distance with it's "focal length") does the trick for intricate details.
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# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 02:22 |
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Darren MacLennan posted:Here's what you do: Go buy some pantyhose. Cut off a little square and put it between the bottle and the plastic screw-on dispenser, and the square will catch the big chunks of paint before they make your way into the airbrush. Craft paint clogging an airbrush is not solely due to clumps in the paint. It is also because the pigment is not as fine as in hobby paint made specifically for miniature or model painting. There is also less pigment on average, thicker filler/lake and not as much attention paid to consistency. It is typically a lower quality paint. Lower quality tool ='s more problems for specialized applications. None of this is intended as a rip on craft paints; just an observation that it is not as good a tool for miniatures and especially airbrushing. Will it work? Absolutely. It will just take more effort to get the best results out of it. These best results will typically be inferior to the high quality paints. When most people factor all the time spent compensating for the increased challenge/difficulty of using craft paint, they often find that the higher cost is worth the time savings. Sure, I spent many years making $$$ off of craft paint paint-jobs because I simply couldn't afford the good stuff. However, once I had enough money to completely transition to Reaper & Vallejo I never looked back. The time I saved allowed me to crank more stuff out.
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# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 21:17 |
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Reaper has like, maybe five figures with guns that aren't pirates or modern. I'm looking for a more fantasy or Mordheim Witch Hunter vibe. I take it that the pathfinder female gunslinger Reaper makes doesn't cut it for you then... Considering that there is a very highwayman looking pirate in the Black Scorpion range, but she's got a sword and a pistol instead of two pistols. Might be able to make a clean cut and add another pistol. It's the "Pirate Girls 2" pack: Werner Klocke's Freebooter range has one that looks like a definite maybe: http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/85 There's one more range I'm trying, but failing, to remember. I'll drop it in later if I remember it or find it as I peruse my thousands of manufacturer URLS. Just checking, but would something with a bit of steampunk in it be bearable for you? (I'm thinking the answer is no, but figured I'd double check). E: Maybe Mira the Inquisitor by Patrick Keith. She's on his Bombshell Babes site: http://bombshell-miniatures.highwire.com/product/mira MisterG fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 9, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 9, 2013 04:16 |
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polyfractal posted:^^^^^^ That's a cool model. I like what others have said about the oil, for example, checking the spirits you are using. For the sake of completely covering the topic: From a "paint is the problem" perspective it IS possible to over-thin paint to the point that the pigment begins to clump together and dries with a speckled/grainy look. I'm leaning away from this because of how you described the attempts you made to vary the thickness of the paint to test that out.
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# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 01:31 |
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Boon posted:Does anyone have any experience with how gloss and matte varnishes will be affected when sprayed in cold weather? I have models I'm going to need to finish, but it's currently 40 degrees outside (would spray then bring inside). If you are ever going to spray indoors AND If you own a house: Save up your pennies for a really long time to get a spray booth & vent it outside the house. Does your lungs and brain cells good and sucks all things harmful and smelly out of the house. Of course, get the hood with a pane for a light and the light as well. It can cost a bit, but it's better than lung surgery. E: best purchase I ever did since the days with good outdoor priming conditions can be few and far between where I live. and yes yes yes to respirator
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# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 06:26 |
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Uber Kosh posted:Just a heads up, the Badger Sotar is down to $65 on Amazon. If there is a Harbor Freight in your area, they sell some nice gravity fed airbrushes. One that comes with the compressor and the airbrush for $99.99 I believe. The airbrush is almost identical to a mid-rangish Iwata. Agreed that airbrushes are not too difficult once you have the right tools & holy ointments to take care of them. Until you figure that stuff out it can be a pain. Read up ahead of time = never run into the teething problems I did when I first bought into them. Dual action gravity airbrush all the way. After a day with a badger single action I was yearning for double action gravity fed.
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# ¿ Nov 14, 2013 06:44 |
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krushgroove posted:The cheapo clone brushes are decent enough because they are copies, it's getting parts that will be a problem. If a needle gets bent (most likely) or a seal goes bad (unlikely but it could happen) you need to be able to get parts. Good point. I'll double check the harbor freight vs. my Iwata to double check. I was able to use the Iwata Quick disconnect parts on the airhose connector for the Harbor Freight one. I'll check the spare Iwata parts I've got against it as well.
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# ¿ Nov 14, 2013 13:30 |
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Keiya posted:The reaper kits were the reason for the 'still exists', reaper seems to have removed them from their site and I can only find a couple "One left!!!!" entries on Amazon for further-info-sharingness. If I wasn't proposing this for a non-hobby person to get someone, I would totally go with the piecemeal method and shove it all in a gift bag. But, yknow, explaining all that to someone who doesn't particularly care is tricky. The WH40K set looks like the best bet there, though, thanks! Easiest way to find 'em on the site is to use the abbreviation ltpk, but you are absolutely right that they are low on supplies. I've sent an e-mail to Reaper to see if they have more on the way. It could be as simple as the paint pots are low on supply, so they need to get a restock before they can build a pile of learn-to-paint-kits (not that i expect them to tell me the specific reason). edit: Reaper Adrienne replied "The LTPK#2 has been temporarily suspended until further notice. We have all the others." MisterG fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 19, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 19:01 |
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JerryLee posted:Wasn't Reaper switching to Bones for the learn to paint kits? That could be why. Or did they already make that switch and it's the new Bones kits that they are out of? That is very possible all things considered. The original idea was to make paint & takes more affordable, but it quickly turned into "hey, I bet this will sell well on it's own!"
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# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 19:17 |
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dexefiend posted:I have taken multiple seminars from really good painters, and one thing all of them said is dont use ultra small brushes. Get a higher quality size 1 and 2 and the details will be easier than you expected. The higher quality brushes will hold a point better, and the larger brush size means the reservoir holds more liquid (which means the tip wont dry as fast.) This is some of the best advice you could have ever gotten. The tip of the brush and the size of the reservoir DO matter. The difference is how much time you want to spend going back to the paint pot or palette versus actually painting the figure. The time you save also works in your brushes favor. Dip in paint Paint the mini Rinse the brush Remove excess water Dip in paint etc. It can also be easier to get paint into the ferrule of a smaller brush for those of us, myself included, that dip by feel vs. watching what we are doing.
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# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 01:02 |
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BULBASAUR posted:Gonna bring up my Escoda brushes again for this reason. They have long bristles so you carry more paint, but still have that sharp size 0 tip. I don't think I could ever use a size 2 unless I was base coating a tank, but that's personal preference. ^^^Would you say the action on the Escoda is soft or firm? Comparable to a regular W&N Series 7? Finally, which line Optimo? Note to others looking into W&N Series 7. There are two types of W&N Series 7. One that is typically what folks are recommending and another that typically includes the word "mini" or "miniature" depending on the website. Like the name implies, the mini is a smaller amount of bristle. E: added clarification & asked another question about the Escoda. Pacheeco covered it Direwolf. At Dick Blick they are called the round (and seem to be having a stock issue). At Jerry's Artarama I am not seeing the exact inventory numbers I got once. At ASWExpress seems to have the correct stock number with their "standar" line, but the prices seem a bit steep compared to the last time I purchased them. I'm definitely giving Bulbasaur's recommendation a try. vvvvvv MisterG fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 19, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 02:51 |
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BULBASAUR posted:You're looking for "Escoda Reserva Kolinsky-Tajmyr Sable Point" brushes. Here they are on Blick. Thank you. Comparing the measurements listed on Dick Blick I'll try the 1 and 2 size and go from there. The shorter handle might work for me; I'm a firm believer in experimenting a every once and a while to make sure I haven't gotten biased. I am a bit worried about the tip being an issue, but have generally had good luck keeping the point on brushes & Dick Blick has a good replacement policy. Aside: Is it me or does every brush site have an inventory problem right now?
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# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 05:37 |
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Pilgrimski posted:I think the blue and red works well together. The only reason it looks Christmassy is the bit of green, and then only because red/green has been stolen by Christmas marketing You can quickly mitigate the Christmas feel by using brown ink on the base in some locations while using a dunn/pale yellow and white to age/weather the flock to a dead grass color in the remaining locations. Perhaps it would be more effective with two textures, but it's possible to pull this off with just flock.
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# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 00:56 |
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Direwolf posted:Anyone have any suggestions for a base model to convert into a Starcraft II Baneling? They look like this: . Absolutely. The cliff mites from the SSTTMG (Starship Troopers the Miniature Game). They are now for sale at rebelminis. I'd chop the legs down / file the legs down and not worry about the different placement of the head. http://rebelminis.com/terrormites.html e: let me know if you need size comparisons MisterG fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 21, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 06:51 |
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Size comparison picture (albeit crappy & rushed quality)
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# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 08:15 |
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NTRabbit posted:What company is he from by the way? He's a Reaper figure from their Warlord line (which was a great game when Warlord 2 came out). They have some really nice Dwarves for that line and Dark Heaven Legends. http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/warlord%20dwarf/latest/14042 E:vvvvv When I said Dunn yellow, I was referring to the yellow having a sandy brown as it's "base" pigment. The alternative would be for the yellow to have a green or blue bias, which will make the base look like it's covered in lemon colored grass. If it looks like dried grass to you, the yellow is the correct kind. If it looks oddly lively and vivid, it's not the right yellow. MisterG fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 21, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 15:12 |
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Great Captain America reference. Blackheads is funny. They could also be the "Red headed stepchildren" "Crimson heads"? E:vvvvvv Crimson skulls - yes! MisterG fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Nov 23, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 22, 2013 21:46 |
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For me, mixing in the cup is a no go. Apparently, I'm just not talented enough. Instead, I use dropper bottles and go with a roughly 50/50 mix of paint & water. My main paint is Reaper Master's Series. I adjust the ratio to limit clogging. Mix paint Test with "water tension test" When water tension is right, dispense it into the Feeder Cup Paint Paint Paint
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# ¿ Nov 23, 2013 09:33 |
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Not a viking posted:I'm having so much fun painting dark eldar! The red got a little too pink on the highlights. I think i'll just use straight elf flesh and then add red wash afterwards and see if its better on the next models. Gangs of Nur Ork would be cool. Considering the colors; You got them matched very well. The only suggestion I'd have is if you are attempting to match EVERYTHING about the original paint job. If you are, you might consider tightening up the transition at the top of the highlights. That is, the highest highlight should be the smallest area covered and/or the thinnest of thing edges. I like your more gradual effect & think it's great; it's the only thing that immediately stood out as "different".
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# ¿ Nov 23, 2013 17:24 |
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InfiniteNoodles posted:Should I be thinning P3 metallics? I'm having trouble using metallic paint of any kind without them looking either globbed on or thin and splotchy on flat surfaces. Any tips on getting even coats? Vallejo are the best (E:Acryllic) metallics out there. They are also the most toxic so use separate paint water and if you are a brush licker - just don't do it. It'll give you serious health problems that take a LONG time to go away. Good for painting with, not good for absorbing into your body. E: clarification
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# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 07:30 |
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JerryLee posted:Wait what? I've been trying out VMA metallics because a bunch of goons obviously recommended them, but I never saw anything either in the recommendations or on the labeling about a hazard. The label tells me it conforms to D-4236 and that "no health labeling [is] required" and a quick google search tells me that D-4236 is the standard that would require them to state health dangers if there were any. The way I understand it; warning labels are about a logical use of the product. Since they are not intended for ingestion they don't say "warning, this may affect your health". I'll try to find the forum threads about it. It could be that it's an e-mail warning from a mailing list; so I apologize for not adding the source to start. I'll add an edit to this if I don't find the source as well. Definitely wouldn't stop using the stuff as it was ingestion oriented. The only correlation I've got is that every cat that drank my paint rinse had liver problems & every cat that didn't did not have said liver problems. Obviously that is not scientific evidence and there could have been other causes/effects going on. For now, here is their page on their products safety: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/security A page that did what appears to contain some of the research I was remembering: http://brokenzealot.blogspot.com/2012/01/paint-toxicity.html I'm still not finding the first time I found it, but will keep looking. E: Found one of the ones I'm remembering but it's not about the metallics. http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28534-toxicity-of-vallejo-paints/ MisterG fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 24, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 22:40 |
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moths posted:I was thinking about putting dark tinted plastic behind the windows, but I think that could look even less period. What you have looks great and much more in-period than any of the gem-like or dark windows effects. The really insane thing to do would be to paint the truck interior on the cardstock and place it behind plastic/plexiglas windows... not that I'd do that.
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# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 22:43 |
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Nice. In particular I like the tie-in of blue & orange with the purple/blue on the ridges. Nice touch. Based what I've seen of your metallics, I take it the blade is not reflecting all the highlights? It seems a little bit let defined than the pommel of the weapon.
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# ¿ Nov 25, 2013 03:52 |
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HardCoil posted:Haley's, though impressive, just ends up looking like a really crappy quality knitted cloak, because the threads are as wide as a finger :/ It's not always about correct scale as long as it fools the viewer's brain into accepting it as the material. If you look at the majority of "realistic" wood-grain effects you'll notice the grain is considerably too large. Still looks nice if done well & usually looks much better than anything exactly to scale (and possibly too small to see without a magnifier) This is not meant as an attempt to change your opinion; just an explanation about why it's like that. Some painters do get it smaller though. I'll see if I can find the one I'm thinking of. It might not be as small of a weave as I'm thinking though. E: Found it, but you can only see the pattern on the monk, but not the texture that is also painted on it: http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/schubert/sku-up/02533#detail/IG_1536_1 MisterG fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 26, 2013 |
# ¿ Nov 26, 2013 17:37 |
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Caddrel posted:Does anyone have suggestions for painting in a small apartment? I'd like to do some painting but I'm worried I wont be able to air out the apartment enough. This was my plan until I got a house: For airbrushing Artograph spray booth (or home-made equivalent; be sure to research safety issues of home-made booths) Laundry/Dryer vent Laundry vent flexible tubing Piece of plywood for window The plywood gets sized to fit in an open/cracked window The Laundry/Dryer vent attached to the wood The Spray booth is attached to the Laundry vent via the flexible tubing. Each time you use the booth, place the wood with vent in the window, seal it/close the window on it until it's secure (perhaps use a properly sized dowel to ensure the window stays firmly clamped on the wood.
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# ¿ Nov 29, 2013 02:24 |
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Khorne Flakes posted:Think someone had a way to bring white out more in backgrounds in photos, if they could let me know I'd appreciate it. Using only natural daylight is how you get the best white balance in photos, but a close 2nd place is using your camera's custom white balance setting. Find the manual for the camera & search for "custom white balance". When you take the photo, ensure that all the illuminated bulbs are the same brand and make. Then find a "true white" piece of cardstock, or plasticard. It doesn't work as well if it is a sheet of paper that light (and darkness) can show through. When you do your custom white balancing, ensure that the only thing showing is the white. Helpful? E: grammar tweaks
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# ¿ Nov 30, 2013 06:18 |
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Khadhul posted:I see. I thought rust took a longer time to form, like weeks/months of leaving poo poo unattended/unmaintained. Shows what I know vv Never occurred to me to look it up or consider how long it took. I've always taken it as a given that you could find rust on something in the field. As always, this thread is a gold-mine. Ask.com says 5 to 6 days depending on the Oxygen present: quote:How Long Does It Take for Steel to Rust?
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# ¿ Nov 30, 2013 15:17 |
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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:41 |
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Not a viking posted:Is this a sort of abusing spouse tactic from GW? "Look how horrible you COULD have been! You could have been Australian! You are really lucky to have me" *raises price by 40%* That almost sounds like the AK-Interactive stuff: http://www.ak-interactive.com/ecomm/?acc=Catalog&sacc=view&IDCat=683&p=1&idp=6460&idc=3 E: They have a bi-monthly (?) magazine subscription that is pretty good. The one word of note is that they have some cheesecake model that they photoshop into the models here and there and at first I was thinking to myself "WTF?" and they eventually acknowledged that folks had complained and toned it down sort of.
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# ¿ Dec 1, 2013 05:40 |