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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I have this long standing suspicion that people in the industry underestimate exactly how lovely the dealership experience is because they never really have to deal with it. You're either on a guaranteed price plan, or you're on a loaner. You order a car or select from inventory, go in and do the very straightforward paperwork, and you're done. The salespeople don't bullshit you, you don't get hosed around by finance. Then these people get confused as to how companies whose entire business model is "I promise you never have to set foot in a dealership" are so successful, because for them, the dealer experience isn't that bad. I think the other component is when your factory is spooled up to poo poo out five thousand kia fortes a month there’s a preference to carry that inventory on lots of small lots rather than stacked in a rail yard.
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 20:37 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 09:05 |
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the preference is really to have some entity that is not you, the manufacturer, carry it on the books.
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 20:55 |
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Inner Light posted:I do not understand this position. Very few email/internet leads turn into actual purchases. I'd be surprised if it was 5% pre covid, in fact I'd wager it was less than 1%. Dealers have no incentive to give someone a good deal over the phone or email, when most people are going to go shop it around to every other dealer in a 75 mile radius trying to save 250 bucks more on the car. Covid may have changed this a little bit, but dealers don't want to waste their time running numbers for someone when there's a 1% chance the sale converts. There's no reason not to be an informed consumer these days. Dealer inventory is listed online. A fair selling price for the car is easily found online. Taxes and fees are generally uniform across your local area. You should have financing arranged ahead of time, so you should be able to get a really close ballpark on the cost of the vehicle, and what your payment is going to be. You should know all of this before you even talk to a car dealer if you're targeting a specific vehicle. Why email them asking what the price is going to be? Offer them a fair price and make them say yes or no. If you live in a large enough metro area, you probably have several dealers of the same make in the area. One of them is probably the no haggle posted prices dealer, another might be the volume dealer that moves 600 units a month at invoice pricing. Figure out what sort of dealer you're working with. Some places haggle, others don't. You may prefer one or the other. I've purchased 11 or 12 new cars so far in my life. In the last 10 years I don't think it's ever taken me more than 2 hours to purchase a car from walking on the lot to driving off. I've bought 5 cars from the same guy at the same dealership, so the last 2 have been over text message, but I don't think it's reasonable for normal people to have that kind of relationship with a car dealer. First car I bought from my guy Drove to the dealership and walked over the to the car I wanted to buy. I already knew what I wanted, and they had it on the lot. 2011 Ford Fusion Sport if anyone cares. Salesman walked over "Can I help you today?" Me: "Sure thing, sign says 5K off any Ford Fusion on the lot. I'll buy this car right now for 5K off MSRP" Salesman: "Let me go check with my manager, see if he'll do it on the Sport trim" Me: "Ok, Cool" Salesman "He said if you buy tonight he'll do 5K off MSRP" Me: "Deal, write it up" Went through financing, left in less than 2 hours. If he wasn't going to sell the car for the price I wanted, I would have thanked him for his time and left. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Me texting my sales guy "Hey man, is that Red Explorer Sport still on the lot? We want to stop by and see it" Salesman: "Yeah it's here, what time you want to stop by?" Me: "We'll be there at 2PM" Salesman: "OK, I'll hold it for you" We get there, see the car. "Hey man, we love the car, if you can get my lease payment 650 or under we got a deal" 650 was my target lease payment that I had calculated from knowing a fair price for the car, my trade in, moneyfactor on the lease, and taxes and fees etc. Salesman: "OK, let me get an value on your trade in, and run the credit app" Me: "Sounds good" Salesman: "Looks like we can't get to 650 on the lease payment. 715 is the best we can do right now" Me: "Dang, oh well. Hey give me a call if you can get to 650 on this car" 3 weeks later at the end of the month I get a call, They got the lease payment to 653 if I bought it before the end of the month. Went down, signed papers, drove away. The dealership model sucks. I get it. It's a very old method of selling cars and they have not adapted at all to the Amazon generation. There's lots of debate to be had about the lovely dealer model. There's a reason CarMax, Carvana, and others are doing so well these days with no haggle, easy transactions. I'm sure someone in their 20's rather cut off their arm than go down to a car dealership and try to buy a car. Flip poo poo around on them. They're the ones with a lot full of cars they're trying to sell. Offer a fair price and make them say yes or no. A car salesman will gladly take a reasonable offer they can close out in a few hours and get a unit moved off the lot. These things are commodities, unless you're trying to buy a some sort of special car. If you have to, make the offer over email, but don't expect them to be receptive. Showing up in person shows you're serious about buying the car and makes them more willing to do the deal. Maybe this method doesn't work for you, it works for me. I love the car buying process.
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 22:25 |
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I get what you're saying but I don't want to spend hours of time driving around to dealerships and talking with these deceptive jerks, especially while we're still in a pandemic. It's an immensely stupid game that I refuse to play. Like I said, I'm not even trying to haggle down for the absolute best screamin' deal. I just want to see the price I'll pay before I spend a couple hours driving around to do the stupid song and dance. I know what I want, nothing less nothing more. There's nothing to sell me on. The only reason to get me to come in without an upfront quote is to try to change that, which will only annoy me. The sooner the dealership model breaks the better. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 23, 2021 |
# ? Mar 23, 2021 22:32 |
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Wizzle posted:My 2006 Tacoma needs to be replaced as it is too small for my family for our weekend/camping excursions. I love my truck and have had it since 2005. It's the most reliable thing I've ever had. The biggest thing I need is a quad-cab/crew-cab. But since I have to replace it to get that, it's worth looking at adding some other capabilities - mainly a reasonable towing capacity. I don't foresee the need for more than 7,500lbs so I don't need a giant 1-ton diesel. I probably can't afford it either. Do you have a brand preference? I'm a Ford homer, so I would be looking at 2017 or newer F-150 Lariats. Don't know what the truck market is like in Oregon, but here in Texas it might be hard to find a used 2017 Lariat at that price point, especially with a longer bed than the 5.5ft one commonly purchased. Stupid things hold their value really well around here. 2017+ gets you CarPlay, the 2nd gen 3.5L Ecoboost (or one of the other engines 5.0 NA and 2.7TT). Lariat package will get you a lot of fancy bits like BLIS, LED headlights, remote/push button start, Leather, power seats etc. Double check the window sticker though, there's several packages. I'm not familiar enough with the other brands to know when they got CarPlay. All the full size trucks are pretty decent though, in my experience it mostly comes down to brand preference. There's lots of Tundra's around here, since they're made here in Texas
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 22:41 |
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skipdogg posted:There's no reason not to be an informed consumer these days. Dealer inventory is listed online. A fair selling price for the car is easily found online. Taxes and fees are generally uniform across your local area. You should have financing arranged ahead of time, so you should be able to get a really close ballpark on the cost of the vehicle, and what your payment is going to be. You should know all of this before you even talk to a car dealer if you're targeting a specific vehicle. Why email them asking what the price is going to be? Offer them a fair price and make them say yes or no. Maybe we're talking about different things, but I'm not sure why you think this method is at odds with using email. I did essentially what you said: looked up inventory, researched a fair but low-end price based upon what other people had been paying, etc. Then I emailed all the dealers in a large radius asking if they could sell X vehicle with Y trim/options for my target price out the door. One responded with a yes. I confirmed it was a true out the door price, all fees and taxes included, which they verified. Showed up a couple days later to sign the paperwork and leave with the vehicle. Maybe getting a positive response from that one dealer was an outlier and I got lucky. A couple other dealers counter-offered with slightly higher amounts, which I may have taken if I had no bites on my opening offer. But overall it was pretty painless.
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 22:56 |
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skipdogg posted:Do you have a brand preference? No, other than I've heard nothing but bad things about the Nissan. I test drove the 2021 F-150 PowerBoost for the heck of it and it was super nice. It was a Lariat with lots of cool features. A friend of mine works for a company that has a lot of fleet trucks and he cautioned to avoid the 3.5L because they've had to rebuild a lot of them so even though the mileage might suffer a little, I'm under the impression that the V8 might be more reliable. Ram and GMC seem to all have CarPlay from 2017 on. If not, for a few hundred bucks I can always add an after-market stereo. As for Oregon, there's a lot of used trucks on CarGurus. Overwhelmingly, in fact. I have a lot of choices. Wizzle fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
# ? Mar 23, 2021 22:59 |
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skipdogg posted:I love the car buying process. you and me both, brother, but like... most people don't. they're never going to see eye to eye with you on this because for most people buying a car is like going to the dentist, only it takes longer and costs more. the model is designed to gently caress those people up, wring every last cent out of them, and piss them off.
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# ? Mar 23, 2021 23:40 |
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skipdogg posted:
I'm totally down for this approach, except for the drat information asymmetry. I feel like it's near impossible to determine what that "fair price" is. It seems like at some point in the last decade dealers/manufacturers realized everyone has access to the "invoice price" now and the model shifted to emphasize volume bonuses, manufacturer-dealer cash, and holdbacks such that at least for some manufacturers, you should expect to buy for below invoice, and anyone paying over invoice is actually getting hosed since the dealer is getting thousands in kickbacks and would have let the car go for way less if the buyer hadn't anchored on an arbitrarily pumped up invoice price. Websites like Edmunds and Truecar give some info, but ultimately they get paid by the dealers so those numbers are only what the dealers want the general public to know. It all makes the process so inherently suspicious such that even when the buyer is fairly confident they're getting a fair deal, there's always the lingering suspicion that I failed to account for some variable somewhere that resulted in me getting screwed on a part of the transaction that maybe I never even considered. Where do you go for reliable info to determine that initial offer of a "fair" price? NJ Deac fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 24, 2021 |
# ? Mar 24, 2021 01:37 |
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you and me both, brother, but like... most people don't. they're never going to see eye to eye with you on this because for most people buying a car is like going to the dentist, only it takes longer and costs more. the model is designed to gently caress those people up, wring every last cent out of them, and piss them off. Yup. Most people have ZERO experience negotiating anything and think that a bank financing them is doing them a favor, not them being a customer. It's great if you have the experience, but most people are not in this position and will just be taken advantage of. This is why the dealership model is so profitable. It's why they spend so much money protecting it.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 03:24 |
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NJ Deac posted:I'm totally down for this approach, except for the drat information asymmetry. I feel like it's near impossible to determine what that "fair price" is. It seems like at some point in the last decade dealers/manufacturers realized everyone has access to the "invoice price" now and the model shifted to emphasize volume bonuses, manufacturer-dealer cash, and holdbacks such that at least for some manufacturers, you should expect to buy for below invoice, and anyone paying over invoice is actually getting hosed since the dealer is getting thousands in kickbacks and would have let the car go for way less if the buyer hadn't anchored on an arbitrarily pumped up invoice price. Dealer margins on new cars (up until COVID driven production shortages), including holdback and incentives, were lower than they'd ever been in history so it's not like there's some kind of elaborate scam that is costing the customers money. If anything, that indicates a closing of information asymmetry and a greater ability than ever for the customer to achieve a "fair price." I get that the whole thing feels non transparent but with what other purchase do you get unit margin transparency? Edmunds suggested price is still pretty good for a fair price.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 10:57 |
Speaking of production shortages, is there any truth to the microchip shortage for the car industry causing jumps in used car prices for the next year or two as a trickle-down effect of lower new car production? Your Auto Advocate makes so much noise about it but I wonder how much is truth vs. them pushing their services.
MJP fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 17:47 |
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Yeah, between that and plants shutting down because of COVID-19, new car supply is low, driving up used car demand.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 18:36 |
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Supply is pretty constrained these days for a bunch of supplier disruption reasons, not just microchips although that is the biggest and sexiest for the headlines. Prices for both new and used cars are on the rise (new cars due to availability, and used cars due to limited availability of new cars), but "jumps" are probably overstated. I would expect to pay more for a used car in the next six months than the same car right now, which is more than I would have paid for that car six months ago.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 18:52 |
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skipdogg posted:There's no reason not to be an informed consumer these days. Dealer inventory is listed online. A fair selling price for the car is easily found online. Taxes and fees are generally uniform across your local area. You should have financing arranged ahead of time, so you should be able to get a really close ballpark on the cost of the vehicle, and what your payment is going to be. You should know all of this before you even talk to a car dealer if you're targeting a specific vehicle. Why email them asking what the price is going to be? Offer them a fair price and make them say yes or no. Honestly the bolded is still the part I can't wrap my head around, as nothing seems to agree particularly closely, and also seems to vary substantially by region? Coupled with the used market just being a shitshow these days, it seems really tough to evaluate this as someone who thinks about car purchasing once a decade. Like here's a vehicle I viewed recently, Autotrader shows it listed high by about $1,100 (fine whatever), but Kelly Black Book ( ) suggests it's overvalued by $5,000. That's one hell of a gulf. e: after poking around at that Black Book calculator you can increase the mileage by 30,000 and it doesn't change the valuation at all, it's probably just a piece of poo poo. e2: VMR's calculator looks a whole lot better, but I of course have no idea how accurate it might be. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 24, 2021 |
# ? Mar 24, 2021 18:59 |
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skipdogg is pretty clearly referring to the new car market, where there is lots of good price information. the used car market is more difficult. you should just look at recent results for similar cars in my opinion.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 19:30 |
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This is true, but I felt no more comfortable a couple months ago when I was considering new.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 20:53 |
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There's plenty of close-to-accurate data available on new car. None of it's perfect but it's not bad. Edmunds is my go-to, there are certainly flaws but if you're in the ballpark with them you've done perfectly fine for yourself.
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# ? Mar 24, 2021 21:47 |
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A bit of a weird question but ah what the heck: Barring anything unexpected, I should be paying off my car loan this Friday. Career has been really good to me last 2 years (knock on wood) and was able to pay off my car much faster than expected. It's a 2019 Kia Optima. I just had the crazy idea of considering trading it in for an older used electric vehicle. Is this a bad idea? I haven't thought about this for more than the last hour so feel free to tell me I'm stupid. Mainly considering it because I miss my old hybrid (Prius) and how fuel efficient it was, and figuring it'd be nice to make the jump to full electric for both economic and environmental reasons. My apartment has tons of EV charger parking spots too which helps. With all the remote work lately, I hardly find myself driving my car more than a handful of times a month either way, so my car needs are very simple. Anyone here done something like this before and was satisfied/upset about it in hindsight? Edit: Also I checked the KBB value for the Kia using their online tool and it's telling me I can get pretty close to what I paid for it as a trade-in value, if that helps put things in perspective reversefungi fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 25, 2021 |
# ? Mar 25, 2021 01:17 |
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The Dark Wind posted:A bit of a weird question but ah what the heck: Barring anything unexpected, I should be paying off my car loan this Friday. Career has been really good to me last 2 years (knock on wood) and was able to pay off my car much faster than expected. It's a 2019 Kia Optima. I just had the crazy idea of considering trading it in for an older used electric vehicle. Is this a bad idea? I haven't thought about this for more than the last hour so feel free to tell me I'm stupid. Mainly considering it because I miss my old hybrid (Prius) and how fuel efficient it was, and figuring it'd be nice to make the jump to full electric for both economic and environmental reasons. My apartment has tons of EV charger parking spots too which helps. With all the remote work lately, I hardly find myself driving my car more than a handful of times a month either way, so my car needs are very simple. Anyone here done something like this before and was satisfied/upset about it in hindsight? You're living in an apartment with EV charging spots now. What if you have to move? You're not driving nearly as much now, why does fuel mileage matter to you? Are you really willing to make a budget-neutral move to an older car? If you are, why? If you're concerned about the environment, just know that someone else is gonna buy your Kia and probably run it for 150K miles so it's not really gonna have a huge environmental impact. People look for different things from cars and that's cool, but at first glance nothing about this seems to make much sense.
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# ? Mar 25, 2021 03:44 |
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Trip report: the dealer that gave me the great email price quote stood by it. Showed up this evening to sign the papers and no funny business, exactly as promised. That's how buying a car should be. Grand total of 5 emails back and forth and 1 phone call to confirm. Easy sale. Guinness fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 25, 2021 |
# ? Mar 25, 2021 05:07 |
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Congratulations, glad it worked out for you.
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# ? Mar 25, 2021 06:11 |
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The Dark Wind posted:A bit of a weird question but ah what the heck: Barring anything unexpected, I should be paying off my car loan this Friday. Career has been really good to me last 2 years (knock on wood) and was able to pay off my car much faster than expected. It's a 2019 Kia Optima. I just had the crazy idea of considering trading it in for an older used electric vehicle. Is this a bad idea? I haven't thought about this for more than the last hour so feel free to tell me I'm stupid. Mainly considering it because I miss my old hybrid (Prius) and how fuel efficient it was, and figuring it'd be nice to make the jump to full electric for both economic and environmental reasons. My apartment has tons of EV charger parking spots too which helps. With all the remote work lately, I hardly find myself driving my car more than a handful of times a month either way, so my car needs are very simple. Anyone here done something like this before and was satisfied/upset about it in hindsight? I didn't trade in for a used car but yes this is more or less my situation. The key factor is having good charging at home, and secondarily good fast charging on any long trips you frequently make. Check out those chargers at your apartment because some of them are a bit of a scam in terms of the rate they cost per kWh. If you have good charging at home it's pretty amazing. From day to day you don't ever go to a gas station, the car is just ready for you to use. There are frequent debates here about the environmental benefits but what is clear is that they are loads less polluting locally, and probably overall. Performance is also generally awesome compared to a gasoline car. For me, the question about your move is whether there is a used EV model that sufficiently meets your needs. I think you might find the used options a bit uninspiring until the current wave of new models (ioniq 5, id4 etc) makes its way through the market.
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# ? Mar 25, 2021 09:20 |
Speaking of hybrids/EVs, I'm curious about maintenance and break-fix on plug-in hybrids. Are there any differences in weird engine/transmission issues between the same components on a plug-in as are on a normal car (e.g. transmission, engine, etc.)? e.g. a bad sensor or something triggers a check engine light. I'm just mostly curious if a higher-maintenance car like a BMW or Mercedes would have less issues in its parts in a plug-in hybrid. An engine used less often = an engine that breaks less often?
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# ? Mar 25, 2021 15:52 |
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hey guys, the toyota guy called me back and offered me a different deal: https://www.northridgetoyota.com/auto/used-2018-toyota-camry-se-northridge-ca/53759748/ 2018 toyota camry SE, 13k miles for 20k good deal?
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 03:42 |
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$20k for a used 4 cylinder Camry seems kind of ridiculous to me when a new one isn’t that much more (2021 SE is like $4k more). This logic probably isn’t the most BFC but new sedans aren’t exactly flying off the lots so there’s room to haggle. edit: I went back and read your other posts, stop talking to this dealer and pay $500 for a car buying service. you’re getting screwed with and that dealer sounds terrible. like classic sketchy dealer stuff. TheWevel fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 26, 2021 |
# ? Mar 26, 2021 03:58 |
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Join a credit union with a car buying service. That poo poo owns, i just emailed a very nice person with what I wanted and they let me know what they found at what price and when do I want it delivered to my door???
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 04:38 |
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I did some more digging and if you can drive to Tustin... This is inclusive of taxes for Northridge, and all fees. I don’t know where exactly you live but the site I got this from has all California cities in a drop down and adjusts accordingly. This dealer is very active on Leasehackr (Cody in the marketplace) and all you need to do is fill out the form and go pick up your car. Also this is a 39/10 lease but there are other options once you sign up for his website. 36/12k is $20 more a month OTD. If you aren’t interested in a lease Toyota has a .90% finance deal that will probably cost you more a month. I’d stick with a lease given that it’s so cheap but that’s up to you and your comfort level. edit: https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/socal-toyota-special-lease-offers/29834 TheWevel fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 26, 2021 |
# ? Mar 26, 2021 05:02 |
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TheWevel posted:$20k for a used 4 cylinder Camry seems kind of ridiculous to me when a new one isn’t that much more (2021 SE is like $4k more). This logic probably isn’t the most BFC but new sedans aren’t exactly flying off the lots so there’s room to haggle. technically the guy who offered me the hybrid was different than this guy who also offered the corolla, but i take your point. luminalflux posted:Join a credit union with a car buying service. That poo poo owns, i just emailed a very nice person with what I wanted and they let me know what they found at what price and when do I want it delivered to my door??? credit unions help you find cars? TheWevel posted:I did some more digging and if you can drive to Tustin... thanks, but i don't think i can drive all the way to texas for that? especially since it seems to be roughly the same price for a cali car D: but since you mentioned it, did have possibly a silly question on leasing cars. i hear that there are lots of dealerships that offer people an opportunity to buy a car after their lease cycle is up and they'd just have to pay the remainder of what they owe. given that lease payments are wayyy smaller than monthly payments when you buy, why would people just not opt to go through lease to buy instead? might be something obvious, but please tell me anyway as i'm dumb
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 06:24 |
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Mr Interweb posted:
Tustin is in Orange County? It’s a SoCal dealer.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 06:33 |
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TheWevel posted:Tustin is in Orange County? It’s a SoCal dealer. ohhh whoops. i read that as austin not tustin okay makes more sense now
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 06:47 |
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It's about time for a new (used) auto, and while not married to getting a slightly used Subaru, they are on my short list for brands. I've had a couple before, I like them despite their known issues, so I've been looking at a local dealerships used inventory that a friend recommended. I'm also not married to any particular model, though I'd prefer Forester or Crosstrek because I'm kind of done with any car that's too low (currently drive a Mazda 3 and I'm not even that old, yet I'm sick of getting in and out of it cause it's too low.) I'm curious because this place has a 2015 Crosstrek w/ just a 2.0 engine, CVT, and 94k miles for the same price as a 2017 Forester with 2.5i engine, 6-speed manual, and75k miles. It made made me suspicious of the Forester, but maybe it's just because it's a manual, which are harder to sell nowadays, and because in general I think most people would prefer a Crosstrek over a Forester? List price for both is $15k. Not that Carfax is the dead-set authority, but it lists no accidents for either, both just one owner, and your standard yearly-ish service records you'd expect to see for 4-6 year old cars.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 17:02 |
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the forester is better at every single thing other than a) having a lovely cvt and b) having a little badge that says "crosstrek" on it
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 18:36 |
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the forester is better at every single thing other than a) having a lovely cvt and b) having a little badge that says "crosstrek" on it So what you're saying is... DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 26, 2021 |
# ? Mar 26, 2021 19:19 |
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Yeah, there’s probably not a huge market for manual CUV’s (frankly I’m shocked that you could get a manual Forester as late as 2017) Sounds fun though! The 2.0 is underpowered in the Impreza; I can’t imagine that it would be at all pleasant in the Crosstrek which weighs substantially more, especially with Subaru’s lovely CVT in the mix.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 20:11 |
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My mom has a crosstrek and I fail to understand the appeal. Atrocious powertrain, cheap interior, gimmicky styling. It was relatively small, cheap, and AWD which is why she bought it and I guess why it appeals to people, but most people don't have to drive to the hospital in the winter in Vermont.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 21:38 |
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Easier to get into than say an Impreza or other compact cars?
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 21:43 |
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my mom is like 4'10, she basically has to climb up in to the crosstrek
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:43 |
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I hit my head on the impreza hatch and do not hit my head on the crosstrek hatch which mattered to me. I did get it with the manual, but it was such a boring car and I did not miss it in the slightest.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:55 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 09:05 |
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:My mom has a crosstrek and I fail to understand the appeal. Atrocious powertrain, cheap interior, gimmicky styling. On the west coast, "chains or AWD required" is a fairly common restriction when the first few snowflakes start hitting the passes. Checking that box is especially important for skiers and snowboarders, who like to go to mountain passes when it's snowing. The styling isn't beautiful, but it doesn't have the mom-ish stigma of the CR-V, RAV4, or Forester, and a lot of people buy into Subaru's lifestyle marketing of slightly quirky AWD cars for slightly quirky active people. There are a lot of twentysomethings who tick all those boxes, have an early-career job where they can afford an inexpensive new car, and don't mind a slow drivetrain so much because they're coming from an early-2000s car with a tired engine that probably struggles to make 100hp and a four speed torque converter auto. Judging by what I see in Seattle, they buy an awful lot of Crosstreks.
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# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:22 |