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crowbb
Feb 25, 2013


Slippery Tilde

Yeah, I have a lot of issues with headroom in some of the bigger cars, but I fit in the freakin' tiny Honda Fit just fine! I had been at the Honda dealer to see other things, but sat in one just to amuse myself and it was like I'd stepped into a magical timewarp that was somehow bigger on the inside than the outside. I would have actually considered one if the interior wasn't completely awful.

nm posted:

As a 6'4" guy who tries to fit in every car he sees, I can tell you there is basically no relationship to exterior size and being able to fit comfortably.
Mazda 2: Bingo (I own one)
Last gen mazda 3: Weird ergonomics kept me from buying
Smart: Yes
Hyundai Equus: A very surprising no.
Fiat 500: Yes
C5 RS6: No :(

I can't fit in miatas and lotuses though :(
In fact, the chevy uplander is the least comfortable vehicle I've ever driven that I could sit in without getting stuck (hello Tesla roaster, that was embarrassing).

On the Pontiac Vibe stuff, I've always heard good things about them. My parents own one and love the thing. I've driven it, it is ok (and I fit in it). I had no issues with it, but it didn't blow me away either. They haven't had any huge problems with it, other than the sunroof stopped working, or possibly never worked in the first place since it's not something they use. I think the CD player went in it too. It refused to spit out a disc stuck in it and my father wouldn't take it in despite being under warranty still because he had a CD-R in there and they were insisting "non-official" discs would void the warranty. He also wouldn't let me pry the disc out with a screwdriver for some crazy reason. I didn't think there was a step down from broken.

crowbb fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Aug 28, 2013

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The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Engineer Lenk posted:

Is this really that rare? I'm 32 and still driving my 99 Camry from college - and it'll probably go for another 5+ years. My wife's still driving her 97 Prizm from high school. It seems like everyone in my family keeps cars for 10 years or >200k miles.

Not really, I'm still driving a '96 Ford Escort with 215k miles on it, and haven't bought a car since early 2000s. Though I admit I'm looking to find a newer hatchback car sometime in the next year or two. I think Throatwarbler just has a different peer group, and is generalizing out a bit on this.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


Engineer Lenk posted:

Is this really that rare? I'm 32 and still driving my 99 Camry from college - and it'll probably go for another 5+ years. My wife's still driving her 97 Prizm from high school. It seems like everyone in my family keeps cars for 10 years or >200k miles.

I wouldn't say it's rare, but certainly not common. I'm 32 and I've owned 11 different vehicles, 7 of which I've bought brand new.

Some people view vehicles like an appliance, does it still work? No sense in getting a new one. Other folks have a different relationship with their automobiles and change them frequently.

Omne
Jul 12, 2003

Orangedude Forever



Throatwarbler posted:


For all your guys who said that you are going to "buy a car and keep it for 10 years and drive it into the ground" or some variation of such. Unless you're 65+ years old and already driving a 1997 Buick Lesabre, the chances of this happening are vanishingly remote. People's lives change, they get married, divorced, move to different towns with different climates/commutes, have kids, get jobs in other countries, get better jobs that allow them to buy newer/nicer cars, lose jobs, any number of a million different things that might result in changing cars. The younger you are, the more likely that this will happen to you and the demographic of the SA forums are probably younger than the national average. 25 year old kids are NOT going to be buying a car and keeping it for 10 years and 100k miles. Even if that's you *want* to do, I really wouldn't base my decisions on the assumption that it's going to work out that way.

FWIW, that's exactly what I did. At the ripe old age of 23 I bought a 2005 Jeep Liberty. I still have it, it's been fully paid off for a few years and it has 124k on the clock. I'm hoping I get to 150k before I get a new one

edit: and I see I have been shamed by the 200k+ mile club of car owners...My mom kept her '94 Camry that she bought new until 2009, with 250k miles. Maybe it's a family thing

Omne fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Aug 28, 2013

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


You have to remember, the people that they are talking about that are trading in on a fairly regular basis are people that are already financing vehicle. If you're rolling around in a 1998 Ford Taurus, I would guess you probably did not finance the vehicle in the first place.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



If you're the type of person that trades in your 2-3 year old car on a new one every couple of years, then there are definitely a lot of upsides to leasing. If you're okay with constantly having a perpetual car payment and not actually owning your vehicle (which really you don't if it is financed), then leasing becomes very attractive option. You never get any equity, but your payments tend to be a lot lower. Even if you buy new and finance, unless you put a huge downpayment or overpay the monthly by a lot you also aren't going to get any real equity within 2-3 years (there's actually a good chance you'll be upside down) and your payments will be higher.

Of course this is ignoring that trading in your car every 3 years is generally not a very good financial habit, but if you can afford it and want to spend your money that way then by all means go nuts.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 28, 2013

SilentW
Apr 3, 2009

my It dept hgere is fucking clwonshoes, and as someone hwo used to do IT for 9 years it pains me to see them fbe so terriuble

Yam Slacker

After years of hand-me-down cars, it's finally time for me to get my own.

Background Info: I'm 6'3", and my current Mitsubishi DE Coupe is both having maintenance troubles and cramping the gently caress out of my legs when I drive it. I only commute 20 minutes, but that could dramatically change in the next year.
Proposed Budget: Up to $30,000, maybe a little higher if it's right.
New or Used: Not terribly important, but I want it to last. New, I guess?
Body Style: Looking for a hatchback, for sure. Maybe a little on the smaller side if I can swing it.
What aspects are most important to you? Fits me when I drive (long legs), has decent gas mileage, and isn't a lead pig to drive. Also low maintenance cost would be a big plus.

I've toyed with getting a new Fiesta or a newer WRX hatchback, but I'm kinda lost so far.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Have you driven a fiesta? I found its leg room lacking.
Also, the wrx is lacking in the mpg department.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


SilentW posted:

After years of hand-me-down cars, it's finally time for me to get my own.

Background Info: I'm 6'3", and my current Mitsubishi DE Coupe is both having maintenance troubles and cramping the gently caress out of my legs when I drive it. I only commute 20 minutes, but that could dramatically change in the next year.
Proposed Budget: Up to $30,000, maybe a little higher if it's right.
New or Used: Not terribly important, but I want it to last. New, I guess?
Body Style: Looking for a hatchback, for sure. Maybe a little on the smaller side if I can swing it.
What aspects are most important to you? Fits me when I drive (long legs), has decent gas mileage, and isn't a lead pig to drive. Also low maintenance cost would be a big plus.

I've toyed with getting a new Fiesta or a newer WRX hatchback, but I'm kinda lost so far.

If you want a hatchback and your budget is that high, I think the Focus ST would be a great fit for you. MPG is just OK, but it's a hoot to drive.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Weinertron posted:

If you want a hatchback and your budget is that high, I think the Focus ST would be a great fit for you. MPG is just OK, but it's a hoot to drive.

Agree on that. You might also look at a Mazda 3 S hatchback, but the focus will be a little easier on the cost of ownership. Honda fit is less powerful, but all around good car (tons of headroom, more space for people in he back seat than th focus, lowest cost of ownership in that segment) but it is no head turner...poo poo tons of space with the seats folded down (they fold in to the floor) and the rear seats fold vertically too, so you can put something over 4 feet tall back there. A sport model starts around $18-$19k. Don't expect to negotiate the price much compared to the ford or Mazda though. The reason why kbb lists it as the lowest depreciating vehicle in the US is because there is only $300 markup on them (they have the lowest markup of any car in the US) so since you only paid a few hundred dollars in profit, you do not take that "$2000-$3000" hit when you drive off the lot. But again, safe roomy car, handles really well, but has about the same acceleration as the fiesta.


And one other non hatchback option..the 2013 honda accord. I know it sounds like I am a honda broken record, but I have no brand loyalty. If this had been last year, I would not even bring it up. I hated the last generation. The current generation on the other hand....

A 4 cylinder EX-L gives you a crap ton of space (120 cubic feet on the interior) moon roof, true voice recognition Bluetooth, multi angle backup camera (standard view, 180 degree wide angle and straight down for parallel parking) 80 degree right side camera (when you turn on your right turn signal, you get a huge 8 inch view of everything on the right side of the car, eliminating blind spot...no more bicycles sneaking up on you) forward collision warning system, lane departure warning system, touch screen audio seer ate from your 8 inch information screen keyless memory locks (knows what driver is getting in the driver side when you touch the door handle and resets your seats and mirrors to you settings) wireless pandora and iPod integration, can't lock your keys in the car or trunk. 36 mpg highway (I have gotten up to 39).. It goes on from there...

For around $27k. I am having horrible buyers remorse for not waiting a year to get my first new car. I used to sell a lot of camrys until the new generation accord. I literally have not sold a single Camry now since October of last year.

Juando290 fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Aug 28, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

They do make a hatchback Accord. With more horsepower, and double wishbone front suspension. The MSRP is slightly higher but incentives are also higher according to Truecar and transaction prices are within $1,000 of each other for the same trim level.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Weinertron posted:

If you want a hatchback and your budget is that high, I think the Focus ST would be a great fit for you. MPG is just OK, but it's a hoot to drive.

If you don't care about power, the titanium is a much better choice.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Throatwarbler posted:

They do make a hatchback Accord. With more horsepower, and double wishbone front suspension. The MSRP is slightly higher but incentives are also higher according to Truecar and transaction prices are within $1,000 of each other for the same trim level.

The Crosstour. It is basically an accord with a big butt hatch and 4wd option...2WD V6 gives you the space, but gas milage drops. You retain all the features I mentioned above. The front I believe is still McPherson struts. Invoice on that though is $30,666

Juando290 fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Aug 29, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Juando290 posted:

The Crosstour. It is basically an accord with a big butt hatch and 4wd option...2WD V6 gives you the space, but gas milage drops. You retain all the features I mentioned above. The front I believe is still McPherson struts. Invoice on that though is $30,666

Crosstour is still based on the last gen platform so still double wishbones up front, 5AT trans, they did release an I4 version in 2011, it's the old non-Earth Dreams non-DI K-series engine that actually makes more power and torque.





THe biggest problem with the Crosstour is that it still retains the Accord's rear suspension and has huge, intrusive shock towers that cut down on the usable cargo space.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Throatwarbler posted:

Crosstour is still based on the last gen platform so still double wishbones up front, 5AT trans, they did release an I4 version in 2011, it's the old non-Earth Dreams non-DI K-series engine that actually makes more power and torque.



THe biggest problem with the Crosstour is that it still retains the Accord's rear suspension and has huge, intrusive shock towers that cut down on the usable cargo space.

Yes, storage is less than it looks, but better than the regular accord. And yes, running last gen engine, so about 7 more horsepower, but actually less torque (162 ft lbs vs 180 on the earth dreams...I hate marketing names)

ThisQuietReverie
Jul 22, 2004

I am not as I was.


FISHMANPET posted:

Is there an easy way to see the trim levels for non current model years? So if I wanna figure out what's inside that white Fit, can I find that out from Honda?

Since they mentioned audio controls on the steering wheel I can tell you that Taffeta White Fit comes with the navigation package and Vehicle Stability Assist (about $1800 when it was new) as '10 Sports don't have steering wheel controls without the optional Nav/VSA bundle. The only other real options are Base or Sport and Auto vs Manual transmission and those are covered in the ad.

I have an '09 Fit that I intend to either: drive into the ground or purchase the very last model year that Honda makes. Mine's been in the shop exactly once for non-scheduled maintenance during its 60k mile life and that was because a gas station had some super concentration of sediments in their tanks. You can fit an unbelievable amount of crap into these things, not only do the rear seats fold either up or flat but the passenger seat folds backwards nearly flat so you can fit something in there that extends from the dash to the rear end if needed. There is a decent selection of aftermarket parts to make it yours too if that s something you'd be interested in.

One thing that may factor negatively into your decision is that (by design) the ride is quite rough. I like it but not a lot of people expect it. It really is a little go-kart and it handles as such.

Hope this helps.

Doulos
Nov 4, 2009

Go ahead, end it, shoot yourself into a wall you stupid monkey.


Hello wonderful internet people I will never meet, please give me advice on a huge financial decision.

Background Info My fiance's current vehicle is an '04 Pontiac Aztek she got from her sister Christmas before last. This vehicle has been driven really hard, her sister was a state manager and did virtually zero maintenance, and it's coming up on 200k miles. My fiance's job demands she drives to three neighboring counties quite often, like a couple 30-40 mile drives both ways a week. We've had to get a good deal of work done on the vehicle already to keep it running, including multiple brake problems, a cracked axle, and wiring issues. We just dropped about $500 on it, and it still has a couple looming issues that would come to another $1800. We're at the point where we don't think pouring more money into keeping this vehicle taped together is a feasible idea, so we are in the market!
Proposed Budget We'd like to stay in the low $20,000s, we could go up to about $24k while still being pretty comfortable with it, but would obviously love to pay less.
New or Used? I've always thought slightly used was the sweet spot. We don't want anything older than a couple years, and without a terribly huge amount of miles on it. My gut would be to stay under about 15k-20k miles, but I would defer to the sage judgement of this thread if y'all think 30k or something isn't a big deal. New is also still on the table, mostly just because we're under the impression we could probably get better promotions/financing for a new vehicle, and having a longer warranty would obviously be great, since car repairs leaves a sour taste in our mouth after dealing with her Aztek.
Body Style Crossover for sure. She'll need a bit of storage space for transporting stuff for work, nothing large, but just large enough that trying to cram it into a hatchback would be tough. Plus we're looking at adopting a greyhound soon, so being able to transport a large dog crate would be awesome. Basically, the same size as her Aztek.
Most Important Qualities Reliability/Low Maintenance (We're still mad at the Aztek), Aesthetics (Hard to qualify, but she abhors the Kia Soul, for example), Fun to Drive (I view cars as a means to an end, but she would probably really appreciate something fun), MPG (She gets reimbursed for travel, but it'd still be a plus).

Weird Extra Thing: She's a country girl, and so she is in the habit of never locking her car. Ever. She even frequently will leave the keys IN THE VEHICLE, with the doors unlocked. So far nobody's tried to jack her '04 Aztek, but a nice new car may attract more attention. She's acknowledged that she will have to lock a new vehicle, but is worried about locking her keys in the car. Something to avert this possibility would be absolutely wonderful. My Ford Escape has the keypad on the door, which she adores, but she'd also be happy with something like the Remote Keyless Entry, or whatever it's called, where the key fob broadcasts a short range signal so she could open the door just by walking up to it and it wouldn't let her lock the keys in the car. At least, I've read online that such a thing can keep you from locking the keys in the car.

Leasing: We're intrigued by all the leasing discussion that's happened in the few pages. I'm a doctoral student, so we have guaranteed life upheaval coming in the next 4-ish years. Getting to make a smaller payment would certainly be nice, and there is (like many have said) a strong chance of our vehicle needs changing within the next 5 years. That would also leave less money tied up for our future needs, which are quite unpredictable, other than knowing we're gonna be moving once I get my doctorate. Are we in a situation where leasing would be smart? It seems most leases are for a 3-year period, which would put us having to deal with the car situation again right in the middle of my thesis crunch. Also, as far as I know now's a good time to be shopping for cars since the new stock is on the horizon, and I'm not sure if the same incentives could be found for leasing as for buying.

Vehicles we're currently looking at: Hyundai Santa Fe (a good friend highly recommends them), Honda CR-V, Subaru Forester. We don't exactly have leads on anything, this is just what's looked appealing from internet searching. Thanks for your help, goons!

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

A Dodge Journey would work pretty well, it's very cheap while also somewhat larger in terms of cargo room than the others you mention. It's not very fun to drive though.

Jetta Sportwagon or Mazda CX-5 can be had with a manual and should be more fun in theory.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Throatwarbler posted:

Mazda CX-5 can be had with a manual and should be more fun in theory.

Only with the 2.0L which is pretty well down on power, and 'fun to drive' is a relative thing in crossovers since you still have a high center of gravity no matter what you get.

20-24k will actually get you in the door on a new one if you're looking at the smaller models like the CX-5 / CR-V.

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


I'm hugely biased at the moment, because I've got one on a truck being delivered to me as we speak, but...this is a suggestion that's not even on your radar at the moment.

2009-2011 Mini Cooper Clubman with up to ~50k miles.
We have a Great Pyrenees, and when she's in the crate, she requires the XL Petmate crate (700 size, as IATA counts it - it's the largest crate that will still fit through the cargo door on an Airbus or Boeing 737), and it test-fit in the back of the clubman with my seatback upright just a little more than normal, and one click forward on the seat track, and that still leaves a fair amount of room for other junk along the sides, without counting the space in the hidden tray compartment in the very back.
The crate is 48x32x35 (LWH), and the cargo space with the seats down is 44"x40"x40.1" (LWH). It's kind of a tight fit longitudinally, and we have to do some finagling to get it through the barn doors, but vertically and horizontally, it's more than fine, which is amazing, because the drat thing is *enormous*.


It absolutely would NOT fit in the back of the Subaru Legacy Wagon I owned at one point. I had to separate the two halves and stack them inside one another to make it fit, which clearly defeats the purpose of having the crate - unless you're taking said crate to the airport to get stuffed into a (sorta) big ol' jetliner.
For non-flying use, we're thinking about something like this, which would take much less finagling to get in and out of the back. Or even just getting one of these (because long white hair in a car with a black interior...and that looks like we could just hose it off and dry it in the sun periodically.)

I suspect that'd be MORE than enough room for your greyhound, and whatever work-stuff she's got to carry. Probably both at once, even. And the 'jump-in' height is much lower than with a traditional crossover or SUV, which I know is a concern with Noel as she gets older - and I can imagine that might be a concern with a greyhound, as well.

It'll get 28/31/36 MPG combined in the base version, and 26/29/34 MPG with the turbocharged S version - which is a friggin HOOT to drive with the 6-speed manual. Motor Trend routinely flogged the CRAP out of their 2009 long-term John Cooper Works Clubman test car (as they are prone to do with their sportier LTT cars), and still returned 25.6 MPG over about 4500 miles.

It's a car that's well supported by an enthusiast community, so there will be a LOT of DIY maintenance articles available. Here's one source.

I've seen the occasional "The MINI IS NOT RELIABLE" claim here and there, but I'm not sure where that is coming from...Everything I've seen says that the reliability is anywhere from average to fantastic.
The most damning thing that I can find is in the JD Power Rating, and the ratings of "2/5" are for the design angle, where new owners find the controls confusing to use - and that I can agree with a fair amount of that. If I hadn't looked it up in the manual, I'd have NO idea how to get the electric folding mirrors to work, that I could change the color temperature of the interior lighting from "orangish" to "bluish", how to brighten or dim the interior dash light at night, or that there is a second glove box behind the silver trim panel above the "real" glove box!
However, with a read of the manual (available as a PDF from one of the MINI oriented websites with a Google Search), you'll figure that stuff out, and be used to it within a week or so.
It's still ultimately a BMW, and based on my current car I can say that the best thing you can do is to keep current with scheduled maintenance maintenance, and not get into maintenance debt. It's a different mindset from driving, say, a Honda, which will forgive a LOT of years of feeding it only gas, tires, and oil changes.


Good examples can be had for around 20 grand.

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 30, 2013

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


IOwnCalculus posted:

Only with the 2.0L which is pretty well down on power, and 'fun to drive' is a relative thing in crossovers since you still have a high center of gravity no matter what you get.

The Infiniti EX35 would beg to differ :colbert:

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

The EX35 is really more of a G35 wagon, and at that price point you're competing with the BMW X3, Audi Q5 and the wagon variants of the CTS, A4, etc. For under $25k new IoC is pretty much right. You could call the CX-5 or the Jetta Sportwagon diesel "fun" in some ways but they're def. not fast.


quote:

I've seen the occasional "The MINI IS NOT RELIABLE" claim here and there, but I'm not sure where that is coming from...Everything I've seen says that the reliability is anywhere from average to fantastic

Is yours a turbo? The turbo ones really are pretty bad, the turbo engine has massive and well documented issues with the timing chain/tensioner/valve train completely making GBS threads itself in multiple ways, the heat from the turbocharger melting and setting on fire the plastic bits under the hood, the AC compressor snapping off the mounting bracket which is machined from the engine block and thus requiring engine replacement, and the typical BMW DI engine failures (HPFP, carbon buildup, etc).

The NA ones probably won't catch fire or leave you stranded I guess but they're still pretty badly built, old boss had one and it was constantly leaking water from one badly fitted trim piece or another and the electronics are typically German.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


Throatwarbler posted:

The EX35 is really more of a G35 wagon, and at that price point you're competing with the BMW X3, Audi Q5 and the wagon variants of the CTS, A4, etc. For under $25k new IoC is pretty much right. You could call the CX-5 or the Jetta Sportwagon diesel "fun" in some ways but they're def. not fast.

For 25k new sure, but he said that slightly used was the sweet spot. I got my EX35 as a CPO with 35k miles for 24.5k.

My point was more than an EX35 doesn't have a high center of gravity and that it handles more like a car than an SUV. It's fairly quick for a crossover, though I wouldn't call it fast per se. I don't really think it fits in the wagon category though, at least not on body style.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

The problem with the EX (and I love Infiniti, drive a G37) is that you'd expect it to be more spacious then a G as a "G wagon" but it just isn't. I'm not sure what the EX is for. I have no doubt it is a blast to drive, relatively speaking.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Aug 31, 2013

purpleandgold
Apr 13, 2012


Kenny Rogers posted:

I'm hugely biased at the moment, because I've got one on a truck being delivered to me as we speak, but...this is a suggestion that's not even on your radar at the moment.

2009-2011 Mini Cooper Clubman with up to ~50k miles.


Go for a MINI Next, one of the certified pre-owned. You get a warranty up to 100,000 miles or 6 years from original date in service. You might even be able to find one with extended maintenance that covers the same.

The thing with MINI is that you have to be good about regular maintenance and you have to make sure you only get it worked on by people who know how MINI's work. They're kind of finicky cars and you definitely don't want one if you aren't within an hour or so drive of a dealership. I know I'm biased also since I sell MINI, but we do certainly get a lot of Clubmen and they're a ton of fun to drive. Also check out the MINI Countryman; you can probably find a few in that price range. They're certainly not the best reliability-wise, but they're awesome to drive and can handle more cargo than you'd ever expect. My record is five people, a saxophone, guitar, and cello, and three large backpacks. All doors closed.

Also, right now MINI is running a bunch of great promotions on the last of the 2013's, since the '14's just started hitting our lot. Might be worth checking out.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


Saltin posted:

The problem with the EX (and I love Infiniti, drive a G37) is that you'd expect it to be more spacious then a G as a "G wagon" but it just isn't. I'm not sure what the EX is for. I have no doubt it is a blast to drive, relatively speaking.

Yeah, it's not that spacious overall. With the seats down it has reasonable cargo room, but probably not much more than say a Mazda 3 hatch. My work requires me to have something with a liftgate for work related gear so my past two vehicles have been an RDX and an EX35. I have enjoyed both of them, but I need something with better gas mileage. I'm looking at the new Mazda 3 at the moment, though it needs to come out first.

Rainbow Bells
Oct 10, 2010

You Cussin' with Me?

I'm in the market for a new or newer used car and I would really appreciate any advice. The most important factors to me are reliability and gas mileage, also ideally I'd like a hatchback. I mostly use my car for commuting, but I'd like the hatchback so I can fit surfboards and the occasional snowboard. I don't need anything fast or luxurious, just a reliable, efficient car that will last for many years.

Budget: mid $17,000s, but I can go a little higher for the right car

I've been doing some research on a few cars that I think might work for me, so far I'm considering the honda fit, honda insight, subaru impreza, and the nissan versa note. I'm open to any other suggestions.

Let me know if there's any additional info that would be helpful. Thanks for the help.

het
Nov 14, 2002

A dark black past
is my most valued
possession


Hey, I'm toying with the idea of getting a new car. I currently have a 2005 Acura RSX Type S with 120k miles that I bought new and have enjoyed and may stick with, but I'm thinking it's time to start looking at the market for a replacement.

Proposed Budget: $17k-23k
New or Used: New, open to suggestions for recently used
Body Style: Hatchback or sedan, strong preference for 4 doors
What aspects are most important to you?: Reliability, fun/good handling and power, fuel economy

I've been tentatively looking at the Fiesta ST and Focus ST, and the Elantra GT seems like a cheaper but possibly still fun option. One of my big questions is about the Fiesta ST versus the Focus ST, since it seems like there's only like a ~$1k price difference in them, and the Focus offers more cargo space, more horsepower, and independent rear suspension. Is there any reason to go for the Fiesta beyond fuel economy or actively wanting a smaller car? I'm also totally open to suggestions for other makes/models, those are just the ones I've looked at.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I drove them at a ford event. The Fiesta was far more toss-able. The Focus is faster in a straight line (though probably only slightly, can't recall the numbers).
I actually preferred the Fiesta as they both have too much power for an open diff FWD, so I'll take the one that handles better over the one with a bit too much power.
On a smaller lighter car, a twist beam isn't that bad of a thing.

I do not consider the Elantra GT to be competition. if you want something sporty, Hyundai/Kia as a whole are disappointing.
You should be able to sneak a Mazdaspeed 3 into that price range too. I also wonder if you couldn't sneak into a leftover 2013 WRX into that too. Once you're above 200hp, having a driven rear axle makes a huge difference.

Also, I know you mentioned reliability, but it isn't as bad as it used to be, plus you have a warranty: The GTI really is a very nice car.

nm fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Sep 2, 2013

het
Nov 14, 2002

A dark black past
is my most valued
possession


Good input, thanks, I'll look into the possibilities for a Mazdaspeed 3. I test-drove a WRX when I was buying my RSX, and I found the clutch kind of unforgiving, is that an intrinsic quality or was that just the unfamiliarity of a new/different clutch? I probably should have mentioned I'm primarily interested in a manual transmission.

edit: re the GTI, I owned a 96 Passat GLX before the RSX, and was kind of put off on VW with regards to reliability (which is why I went towards the Acura). I'm open to considering a VW again though if they're more reliable nowadays. My bigger issue than the quality of the vehicle at the time was getting competent work done on it (I took it into a dealer once and had to literally point out where the check engine light was)

het fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 2, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Seems like the difference is more than that.



Consider also the Civic Si and Nissan Juke NISMO FWD.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

You'll have to do a bit of searching to find a manual trans model but a 2 year old Buick Regal turbo or GS is also pretty nice,

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...onal&listType=1

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...onal&listType=1

4 year warranties on Buicks too.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

het posted:

Good input, thanks, I'll look into the possibilities for a Mazdaspeed 3. I test-drove a WRX when I was buying my RSX, and I found the clutch kind of unforgiving, is that an intrinsic quality or was that just the unfamiliarity of a new/different clutch? I probably should have mentioned I'm primarily interested in a manual transmission.
A bit of both. The subaru 5-speed is a bit notorious for both weird clutches and not the greatest feeling shifts. That said, having lived with one for 4-5 years at this point, it seems normal now. I think you get used to all clutches.

quote:

edit: re the GTI, I owned a 96 Passat GLX before the RSX, and was kind of put off on VW with regards to reliability (which is why I went towards the Acura). I'm open to considering a VW again though if they're more reliable nowadays. My bigger issue than the quality of the vehicle at the time was getting competent work done on it (I took it into a dealer once and had to literally point out where the check engine light was)
They are more reliable, but less so than the japanese. The dealers are still very hit and miss.


I will note of the Focus ST, I've heard of some smoking deals on 2013s. Like $5k off the upper trims. One thing I would worry about on these cars is myfordtouch, which is apparently clunky and still has some bugs. I'd actually stick to lower trims to avoid it.

nm fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Sep 2, 2013

het
Nov 14, 2002

A dark black past
is my most valued
possession


Throatwarbler posted:

Seems like the difference is more than that.


I was going off of IOC's recommendation of PenFed for pricing, where the ST models differ by less than 1k, and using that to negotiate.

quote:

Consider also the Civic Si and Nissan Juke NISMO FWD.
Will do, thanks!

nm posted:

I will note of the Focus ST, I've heard of some smoking deals on 2013s. Like $5k off the upper trims. One thing I would worry about on these cars is myfordtouch, which is apparently clunky and still has some bugs. I'd actually stick to lower trims to avoid it.
Yeah, I'm definitely wary of the higher trim packages for that reason, I'm suspicious that stuff like that is worth it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

MFT is pretty terrible but sync is pretty great.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

MFT is pretty terrible but sync is pretty great.

Yeah, it is amazing how ford went from the best audio system software (sync) to some of the worst (I've heard CUE is just as bad).

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


PurpleandGold, Throatwarbler and Juando290, I just wanted to let you know - I LISTENED TO YOU - and now I need your esteemed opinions.

Juando290 posted:

Kenny Rogers posted:

Lease+Finance chat:
For someone who did some stupid poo poo in the spring 2009 and tanked their credit, at what point (FICO Score) during the repair cycle should a lease become a viable option? My score has so far recovered to the middle third of the 600's (615-654, depending on bureau), and aggressively paying down what little cc debt I have is boosting my score as I go along. Leasing sounds pretty attractive, but I don't think I'm quite there yet - I'm shopping for a second car, and have a pre-approved package in the low 6% range. I figure (probably correctly) that talking to a dealer about leasing is still just going to waste both our times and get me a good chuckle at this point? (Y/n)
Depending on manufacturer, if you can get financed, they will also lease to you. Again, using Honda as an example (since that is the dealer I am based at, though I sell on Chevy, ford, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru lots as well) Honda has three tiers of credit that they will approve for financing. They don't have special requirements for leases. If they can approve you through manufacturer financing, then you will have the option for leasing in the same tier. If you have no collections, you will be fine (people with a 700 score or above qualify for Hondas top tier currently, so you are close to breaking into their second tier right now...)

Also, one last lease bit..if you are thinking about buying a house for any reason, leasing is also good on a car because your debt to income ratio is lower. Like my write up, your debt will not show $20,000 being financed, only $6,000.

purpleandgold posted:

I'm also going to chime in as a supporter of leases. I'm also horribly biased since I sell cars, but we love leases. Especially in the luxury market, leasing is far more popular than purchasing. It's generally a much more cost-effective way of having a nice car.

I'm presently leasing since I like having a luxury car with cutting-edge technology, and that's by far more affordable if I'm not purchasing the car. I could pay $500 a month and be able to walk away from the car completely in three years, or pay $800 a month for five years and be seriously upside-down on the car for much of the time. And really, I love European luxury cars dearly, but I wouldn't want to pay for the maintenance and upkeep after it's out of factory warranty.

Yeah, people do trade cars a lot. It's rare that I get someone who wants to trade in a car that's older than 5 years old and has no payoff; the majority of the used cars I take in are 30-48 months old and still financed. Honestly, if you're going to trade cars more often than every 5-7 years, try leasing. And it's fine, we car salespeople don't mind if you ask us a ton of questions about how leasing works, what's included, and specific penalties for high mileage, excess wear and tear, and so on. Read all the fine print; it's worth it. Leasing isn't all scary and actually sometimes is awesome.
I apologize in advance for the wall of text. Lots of options that I'd like to get a second (dozen) pairs of eyes on.

The GF and I went to our local MINI dealer today, with the intent of talking about leasing vs. buying. Found a MINI Cooper Clubman S with an MSRP of $30,345, which checks out on the Build Your Own MINI site. TrueCar gives 29,799 as the target price. The finance guy said he'd discounted the car pretty substantially (to 26-something IIRC, but that seems WAY low, but maybe they have $2000 in incentives or something. I doubt it's 27 grand, but I won't cry if it is. The GF-unit recalls hearing more like $29,500, which seems more reasonable.)

We spent quite a bit of time with the finance manager, and with the numbers that he ran, he came back with $448/mo for a 3 year lease with 15k/miles per year. Commuting with the M3, I'm did 13,300 last year, so 15k is great.

We applied through Mini's financing, and they turned us down with a 651 FICO. This is probably related to a voluntary repo that I took when my GF and I broke up in 2008, and she moved to Texas. That would have stuck me with $800 worth of car payments, so the Wrangler we bought went back to Toyota Financial, and that took my FICO with it. 4.5 year later, I'm mostly recovered, I think.

We were delivered to the office of Kim, the "Mini Money Mama", who seems to be the person with the relationships with the lenders. We went over my credit report and got the whys and wherefores of what was on it, and why, and she's going to call the lenders tomorrow and see if she can swing something. Pending being able to convince a lender to buy the deal, these look like the available options, and I'd like your opinions on them:
I don't have all the information on all the options yet. If it's missing, there's a big fat IDK there.

OPTION A) 0 Down, 15k miles/year, $448/mo. for 36 months.
$448 first month's payment due up front, which is normal and expected.
Probably a security deposit (A second full month's payment as SD is reasonable, and I should negotiate or walk away if they want more, yes?)
Acquisition fee of probably $700ish.
$348 dealer handling and "additional profit fee" (at least they're up front about it - it doesn't make me begrudge it any less)
So, if I'm figuring that correctly, that's $1944 up front, some of which could potentially be rolled into the lease with a modest increase in the monthly payment.
I don't know what the MF is, I'm calculating the residual at .59 or .60 ($17600 to $17900 ballbark).

OPTION B) Same deal, but trade in my 195,750 mile E36 M3 for ~2500 as cash down. I know that I can get (some) more for it in a private sale, so I'm not inclined to use it as a trade. This is a low risk option that does not maximize the value of an existing asset.
Payment of (N<$448)/mo. for 36 mo. 15,000 miles/year.
The deal would be similar to the last, but the upfront would be my trade-in, which would (in theory?) pay for the security deposit, ACQ, Handling/Profit, 1st month's payment, and have $550 available for Cap Cost Reduction. Am I correct there?

OPTION C) Put $2500 or $3000 down (temporarily) on my lovely high-interest rate credit card. Sell the M3 or my DRZ400 in a private sale. Pay the balance with the proceeds.
It's a more efficient conversion of my existing assets to cash. It's higher risk predicated on neither one selling, but not that much higher risk and I think the likelihood that NEITHER one would sell for $3000ish is fairly low.
This seems like the best option of the three Lease options to me.

Question 1: Given that the quoted payment fits in my budget, and given that I'm sort of a "marginal" customer at the moment - should I really care what the MF is if the rest of the deal suits my sensibilities and I don't feel ripped off?
Question 1a: Is there enough information there to determine if this is a decent deal or not?

OPTION D) This all came about because I found a 2009 Clubman S with 53,400 miles at CarMax in Salt Lake City. It's pretty much perfect for us, so a week and a half ago, I dropped $200 and had them bring it to me. The car is here, and they're waiting for the title to come in before they can actually do the deal. We drove by today, and saw it in the back lot. It's *sharp*
$18,599. I Googled the VIN and got some history on the car. It was the Showroom car for Murray Motors in SLC before the PO bought it. It's got Cold Weather, Premium, Convenience, and Sport packages, and a roof rack with bike carriers (which will probably come off).
0 down, and in the neighborhood of $425/mo. for 60 months.
PRO: No money out of pocket at all.
CON: My main concern with this option is that there's no warranty, and the Prince engine MINIs have a history of a very small, but still non-zero chance for:
* High Pressure Fuel Pump fires (Recall issued), and
* Timing chains (apparently MINI is fixing it under a recall/extended warranty, but the official announcement isn't out yet - it's due in September),
* Clogged turbo oil pipes (replace turbo, do not pass go, do pay to fix. Can be staved off with a good oil change regime, and undoing any existing sludging can apparently be fixed with using an AMSOIL product every 3k for 10k or so)
* Carbon Buildup on the intake valves (Direct injection engines mean there's never any fuel/air mix dissolving it. Walnut shell blasting is the only feasible solution. That's DIY, and a good reason to get an air compressor and a shop vac, but kind of a pain to do every 30k miles...)

* Possible Solution A: CarMax has the MaxCare warranty on offer for $2300, which will carry the car to 120k miles (which is 66600 additional miles and 5.0075 years at my current driving pace), and word on the street (internet) is that it would (and examples exist where it does) cover everything on the list of potential failures - except the carbon buildup.
* Possible Solution B: As above, but skip the warranty, put the $2500 sale-proceeds that I'd otherwise have put into the downpayment in Option (B) into the Car Maintenance Fund, add to it a little bit each month, and also have at least $2500 in credit available in case something REALLY goes tits up on the car in the next 5 years.

I've seen the MaxCare exclusion list, and it's basically everything except "Normal Wear and Tear" (Dings, scratches, windshields), "Consumables" (oil, tires, brake pads/rotors, etc.), and "Things your (Liability + Collision + Comprehensive) Insurance Would Cover" (Collision, Vandalism, Theft, Hit and Run damage, Storm Damage, etc.)

Question 2: If option D looks better than A, B or C then, MaxCare Warranty or Emergency Fund?

I'm currently completely on the fence between the two cars, and each has their pros and cons in my mind.
Lease Pro: My first brand new car. Not sure I'd want to own a MINI for more than 3-5 years. Nice thought to just be able to walk away at the end.
Lease Con: Cash up front, when I'm moving to a new apartment a couple miles away at the end of the month. It's manageable, but not preferred. Mods should be removable.
Own Pro: Sure it's a depreciating asset, but in 5 years, it'll still be an asset with *some* residual value - much like the M3 is today. Unlimited mod potential.
Own Con: Not under warranty. Bad Things could happen, and I *could* be stuck with needing to replace the engine in my daily driver.

We both think that we're good long-term candidates for Leasing. We don't drive that much, and are looking to drive less as time goes on. We're both SO OVER our "beater stage of life", and think we could deal with a lifestyle of, and have the budget for, having a perpetual car payment. We both believe that you only get one go-round in life, that life is too short to drive a car you only tolerate.

Question The Final:
Is one a significantly better fit for my lifestyle?
Is one a significantly better fit for my (still improving) finances?


Selling the bike would allow me to keep the M3, which needs a suspension refresh (a control arm/ball joint definitely, everything else would be optional) and an oxygen sensor. The GF could sell her Yaris S for a bit ($1500ish) more than what she owes on it, and use the proceeds to fund refurbishing the M3, which she likes quite a bit, and knows the history of.

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Sep 3, 2013

a podcast for cats
Jun 22, 2005

Dogs reading from an artifact buried in the ruins of our civilization, "We were assholes- " and writing solemnly, "They were assholes."

Soiled Meat

.

a podcast for cats fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Sep 3, 2013

quaunaut
Sep 15, 2007

WHOOSH

So. I've done my research. I think I'm in the clear. I want a no-bullshit opinion from people here.

I make $75k gross per year. I bring home about ~$3300 a month. My expenses come out to about $1600-1900, depending on another expense that might be coming up.

I'm fairly secure with my job. My current car is worth $1200('96 Camry) and is starting to have more noises than I'm reasonably comfortable with.

The car I'm looking at is a new 4 door 2013 Camry LE, for $18,300. I can have 0% financing over 5 years, or my normal financing(~3%) over however many years I want. I can pay early without penalties, it just cuts months off of my payments at the end.

It comes with a lifetime powertrain warranty, that I can use anywhere in the continental US or Canada, as well as the 36,000 miles/3 year bumper to bumper coverage.

I'm a 25 year old web developer. I can likely move on to jobs where I'm paid more, but even so, I could never see my income going below $60,000, especially in the next several years.

Am I making a good call? Ask all the questions you need.

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Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


quaunaut posted:

I'm a 25 year old web developer. I make $75k gross per year.
I can likely move on to jobs where I'm paid more, but even so, I could never see my income going below $60,000, especially in the next several years.
Am I making a good call? Ask all the questions you need.
Based on the new and interesting information that I've learned over the last couple of weeks about :
A) The Current State of Leasing in the US, (Particularly changes in law regarding Truth in Lending)
B) How long people REALLY keep their cars (hint: I'm pretty sure you didn't buy that Camry new off the lot when you were 8...)

I recommend one of two choices, based on some fairly personal things.

Some variation on: I hate buying cars. They are a depreciating asset. I like working on my cars. I hate having a car payment. I want to own my ride, as I'll be keeping it at least 5 years. - Buy what you can afford for cash right now, then...Do this.
-OR-
Some variation on: Having a car payment doesn't bother me. I like the security of having a warranty. I will purchase different cars based on my needs, my wants, or my income over the course of my life. I am (or will become in the future) a business owner, even if it's a sole proprietorship. - Learn how to negotiate a good lease, and be able to figure out, (based on year/make and model) whether it will be better for you to buy, pay on the car for 3 years, then sell, or to lease for 3 years.

That said, my own story (in the post on this page) is that after researching potential problems that might happen with the 2009 MINI Cooper S Clubman that I found, I went yesterday and talked to MINI of Loveland about leasing, and I'm on my way out the door to go pick up a 2014 Cooper Clubman S with 5 miles on it for within $25/mo. of what I was going to pay for the 2009 car with 53k miles and no warranty.
My gut feeling says that I can Lease the car and have no equity in it after 36 months, or I can buy the car, and have the engine or transmission let go sometime in the next 36-60 months, and STILL have (essentially) no equity in the car.

Ultimately, my GF and I are going to split-test the two methodologies for the next 3 years. We're going to have one car that we paid cash for (and we will pay our savings a car payment each month) and one car that we've leased.

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Sep 3, 2013

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