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IOwnCalculus posted:Or you find a state or series of states that aren't good about keeping salvage notes on titles, and re-title the vehicle once or twice. Which is shady as gently caress and probably illegal on some level, but it can and does happen. Washing the title can happen but its pretty rare. If you have to get the vehicle insured, inspected, registered etc in that state it doesn't really make sense.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:05
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I suppose this bears repeating. The fundamental issue with a salvage title is that an insurance adjuster determined, by inspecting the damaged vehicle, that it would not be economical to restore the vehicle to its former condition. "Not economical" means it would cost more to repair it than it does to just replace it. In the real world, an insurance company will often total out a vehicle if the initial estimate comes close to, but does not exceed, the estimated replacement cost, because estimates based on the initial inspection are often low: once the mechanic starts tearing into the vehicle, additional damage and costs can be revealed. Some overly optimistic (or nostalgic) car owners don't understand this, and buy back their vehicle from the insurance company rather than taking the full payout. Alternatively, some owners don't have adequate insurance, and some unscrupulous scrapyards and auto shops buy scrap cars and restore them cheaply using substandard parts, unprofessional labor, and/or outright deliberately disguising serious damage rather than repair it correctly. So if you find a salvaged vehicle for sale, you always have to ask: how is it possible this car has been repaired? One of the following must be true: 1. The initial estimate was too high. Some enterprising individual recognized this, bought the car at scrap value, and did the repairs professionally and completely for a low enough cost that they were still able to make a profit by selling the car, despite its branded title. 2. The initial estimate was good. Some enterprising individual bought the car at scrap value, and did the repairs cheaply or incompletely or not to a professional standard, thus preserving enough margin over their costs to sell the car at a profit, despite its branded title. 3. The initial estimate was good. Some enterprising individual bought the car at scrap value, and did the repairs professionally and completely, thinking they would be able to profit but wrong about that. Now they're trying to sell the car at a loss, which is the only possibility while still acknowledging the reduced value due to the branded title. 4. The initial estimate was good. Some enterprising individual bought the car at scrap value, and did the repairs professionally and completely, thinking they would be able to profit but wrong about that. Now they're trying to sell the car at a profit, by pricing it well above what it should be, and hoping they can find a naive buyer who doesn't understand the significance of the branded title. Cases 2 and 4 are far more likely than case 1 or 3, and it's usually impossible for the buyer to differentiate between them, after the fact. So a salvage title is best avoided because you're more likely to get screwed than you are to get a good deal on a car. And the consequences of getting screwed could extend to driving around in a car that is structurally compromised, making it much less safe in a collision than it should be. Saving a couple thousand dollars isn't worth the risk.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:52
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The only salvage title I would have ever considered was my mom's nearly totaled Accord. Because she was the only owner, it had no miles on it (like 80k), was well maintained and still worked perfectly, lived inside, and the damage was mainly to the rear and the frame was completely fine. They didn't wind up totaling it, but if they had it would mainly be because the thing is from 1998. There's no sense letting that go when we could get it cheaply repaired (admittedly not professionally) and replace my sister's rapidly aging camry. This is probably the only circumstance you should consider a salvage title.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:17
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IRQ posted:The only salvage title I would have ever considered was my mom's nearly totaled Accord. Because she was the only owner, it had no miles on it (like 80k), was well maintained and still worked perfectly, lived inside, and the damage was mainly to the rear and the frame was completely fine. They didn't wind up totaling it, but if they had it would mainly be because the thing is from 1998. There's no sense letting that go when we could get it cheaply repaired (admittedly not professionally) and replace my sister's rapidly aging camry. There are two variables and assumptions about them that go into whether a car is totaled: the value of the car, and the cost of the repair. Both of these assumptions can have problems. Regarding the repair appraisal, if a car is cheap enough (a few grand) it only takes a little damage to total it (IIRC, it only has to be 70% the value of the car). A bumper cover replacement at a body shop can cost a grand, with shipping and painting. A bumper cover, head light, grille, hood...bolt-on stuff, that an amateur can replace, can total a car if it is old enough. So you're right. If a car is old, and was totaled when it was old, it could be fixed for less than it would cost at a body shop, and be as good as it was before the crash. The insurance company appraised the repair based on assumptions based on how they have things fixed, not the only way to have things fixed. The profit a legit flipper in this situation is at LEAST the money the body shop would have been making. The other problem is the value of the car. Insurance companies may under-value a car. For vehicles with wildly variable regional demand, that could easily happen. A beater Subaru is worth a lot more in Alaska than it is in Arizona. For vehicles with enthusiast communities this pretty much always happens. An MR2 is worth more to an enthusiast than it is to an insurance company. In that case, a salvage title might also not be as bad as usual; but again, the salvage had to have occurred when the value of the car was in this state. Either way you either have to know the circumstances of the repair or be able to judge by looking. Regardless, if you need to come to this thread for general advice, you are not qualified to buy a salvage-titled car from a stranger.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:29
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If you know all the owners of a salvage title vehicle, and you know the circumstances of how the vehicle was totaled, and you personally know the shop that did all the repair, and you know what you're doing when it comes to collision repairs and can read a collision repair invoice correctly, then you may consider a salvage title vehicle as a road-registered daily driver. I have a collision repair background and I would be very hesitant about buying a car even under those circumstances because Shady Mother loving poo poo Goes Down. Now, if you want to build a track-rat E30/Mustang/Miata/Integra/LeMons car that isn't street legal and you're going to take it apart and cage it and whatever, then go nuts. But you probably aren't in this thread if that's the case.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:57
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Proposed Budget: 15-21K New or Used: Used Body Style: Wagon How will you be using the car?: ~40 mile commute each way 5 time weekly. Days off I'm often driving ~200 miles roundtrip for hiking/beer purposes What aspects are most important to you?: reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance, AWD (dirt road to our cabin in the winter), space for two large dogs My 2004 2.5 Outback is experiencing tranny issues after 188K glorious miles. It's got the usual NE outback issues: undercarriage rust, rust on the rear passenger side quarter panel, had it's head gaskets done @120k, had to put in a new radiator last year, etc. I want heated seats, bluetooth compatibility, ideally a sun/moonroof, roof rack. Eurodouche styling is a plus. 2011 Outback (like my gut is telling me), later 2000's XC70 & 328i xDrive wagon or 2011 Jetta SW TDI? Is there anything particularly scary about the TDI? I know it's not AWD but maybe with a good set of snows it would work. I really like the idea of the TDI for the MPG. What should I be looking out for?
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Dec 11, 2014 02:10
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Butt Bidness posted:Again, though, this price is nowhere near the KBB price (8.2k). I understand 1-2k, but 4-5k above KBB still seems like market distortion. Or that I'm terrible with their online tool. Would love to have this answered RE why is the kbb value so low compared to the market.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:03
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Butt Bidness posted:Would love to have this answered RE why is the kbb value so low compared to the market. Do you know that those posted vehicles are actually selling at the prices you see listed? There's a difference between ask and sell price.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:11
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Butt Bidness posted:Would love to have this answered RE why is the kbb value so low compared to the market. Well the buy from dealer value is in the ball park of what that Craigslist ad is priced near. It seems a private party trying to get dealer prices for their car.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Do you know that those posted vehicles are actually selling at the prices you see listed? There's a difference between ask and sell price. Also I don't think KBB tracks random craigslist sales anyway. I'm actually not sure if they track private-party sales at all, or if they just derive that number from major dealership sales (such as by multiplying the average dealer price by .9 or something). SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Well the buy from dealer value is in the ball park of what that Craigslist ad is priced near. It seems a private party trying to get dealer prices for their car. Dealership-quoted prices for used cars are also at a hilarious markup. If you pay the sticker price for a used car at a dealership, it had better be a rare-as-hens-teeth car, or you're being ripped off massively. At the end of the day, KBB, Edmunds, etc. are guidelines. You should always look up their numbers to get some idea, but there are too many variables that go into the pricing for an individual car at a specific location on a specific date. You should only ever pay for a car what the car is worth to you. For VW Golf/GTIs, you are paying more for a hatchback/sedan with X miles in Y condition than you would pay for (say) a Ford Focus hatchback of the same condition and miles and original MSRP, because the used market has a higher demand and lower supply of them. Does that make them a bad deal? Well, it depends on whether you want one more than a Focus.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:39
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Leperflesh posted:Dealership-quoted prices for used cars are also at a hilarious markup. If you pay the sticker price for a used car at a dealership, it had better be a rare-as-hens-teeth car, or you're being ripped off massively. How hilarious? Someone in the past few pages posted some good advice about hunting for new cars, but what is the best strategy for talking down the price on a used car? Email the internet manager at the dealership with exactly the price you want to pay and see if they bite?
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Dec 11, 2014 04:48
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Leperflesh posted:Also I don't think KBB tracks random craigslist sales anyway. I'm actually not sure if they track private-party sales at all, or if they just derive that number from major dealership sales (such as by multiplying the average dealer price by .9 or something). Major used car auctions like Manheim and Adessa have easily obtainable wholesale (i.e. what dealers pay) prices for cars, from that point on it's easy to just add an industry average profit margin to get dealer asking prices and then private party would be a little below that. I don't know for a fact that's what KBB and the others use but it seems easy enough.
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Dec 11, 2014 04:54
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Listerine posted:How hilarious? Someone in the past few pages posted some good advice about hunting for new cars, but what is the best strategy for talking down the price on a used car? Email the internet manager at the dealership with exactly the price you want to pay and see if they bite? It varies wildly. The last time I was shopping for a used car at dealerships (in 2011, I think), my first question about any car was always "can you work with me on this price?" and the answer was almost always "yes." The only "no" was for a car that they had in a special "marked down" section - the salesman explained those were cars they were trying to get rid of and had priced at their absolute lowest. Which might well have been horseshit, but I wound up not wanting that car anyway so I didn't negotiate further. When I did find a car I wanted, it was a 2003 Mazda Protege5 in excellent condition with $50k miles on the clock, being sold at a Lexus dealership. It was probably a trade-in, since it didn't really fit in with the upscale cars they had on their lot (which was 80% new cars anyway), so I knew they probably just wanted to get rid of it at anything at or above what they'd paid. It was marked at $9,999, it was the second-to-last day in I think August, and my initial offer was $8k. I accepted a counteroffer of $8,300 plus tax, license, and fees (their license and fees were pretty reasonable, about $250 in total if I recall correctly, and I asked about them before I started the negotiation so I'd know what the out-the-door price would be). I think that's probably a little more than one should usually expect to save, but not by a ton. The likelihood that the dealership can easily sell the car, how long it's been on the lot, the season, and the individual salesperson's incentives for selling that car that day all have an affect. But it can't hurt to make a lowball offer, so I think you should always make a lowball offer. A private party seller might be offended, but a salesman won't be (even if he pretends he is). You always want to know what the KBB/Edmunds/Truecar price is, and offer something well below that, with the intention of being talked back up some reasonable amount. You want to be sure you're negotiating on the out-the-door price, including their tacked-on fees. I started at 80% of their sticker price and got 83%, which I think was pretty good but also not unreasonable and they did not bust my balls about it.
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Dec 11, 2014 05:21
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Throatwarbler posted:Yes, a $7k to $10k Jeep Compass will be more reliable than a $7k-$10k any of the above, because the Jeep will be much newer. Having looked at truedelta.com a bit, the Subaru Outbacks only have an excellent reputation from 2010 onward and they command a price that was out of my budget. I still cannot find a reference that covers the Compass/Patriot's high reliability. If I were to up my budget to cover a Subaru Outback, would it be a reasonable choice? Or is a Jeep Compass/Patriot still the better option? Thanks.
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Dec 11, 2014 06:50
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Smashurbanipal posted:Is there anything particularly scary about the TDI? I know it's not AWD but maybe with a good set of snows it would work. I really like the idea of the TDI for the MPG. What should I be looking out for? The main thing to look out for is maintenance history and particularly oil changes. The engine requires high quality oil meeting a certain VW spec and while they aren't hard to find they are slightly different from what goes in most cars. To make it short I'd never buy a TDI that had Jiffy Lube or the like in its oil change history. The TDI tends to attract road warriors so high miles are pretty common but if the car was well maintained are not cause for concern at all. The automatic transmission is expensive to maintain because it needs special snowflake DSG transmission fluid every 40k and it is a dual clutch transmission which some people don't like the feel of. Get a manual if you can because it is a blast with the torque from the diesel. Oh and remember in the cold to wait until the glow plug light turns off before starting.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:11
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I'm tempted by a 2003 Crown Vic that a dealer has listed for $5500 with 75,000 miles. But I'm concerned about the RWD since I live in a snow-filled wonderland. I know the Vic has ABS, but would that be enough to keep me from freaking me out on an icy road? I've only drove FWD vehicles before.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:26
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EugeneJ posted:I'm tempted by a 2003 Crown Vic that a dealer has listed for $5500 with 75,000 miles. How light a touch do you have on the gas pedal? How panicky are you in general? If the answers are "very" and "not," you'll be fine.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:42
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EugeneJ posted:I'm tempted by a 2003 Crown Vic that a dealer has listed for $5500 with 75,000 miles. Not a big deal, you'll learn how it handles and figure out when you can't get on the gas. Get snow tires, though. Getting stuck is a bigger problem than handling.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:14
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EugeneJ posted:I'm tempted by a 2003 Crown Vic that a dealer has listed for $5500 with 75,000 miles. Budget for dedicated snow tires and maybe pick up an extra set of steel wheels. I drove a Miata around in winter with studded snow tires, and it was very confidence-inspiring after swapping from the performance all-seasons I bought the car with. Put some sandbags in your trunk along with a shovel.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:59
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I'm currently trying to negotiate prices on a new car at several dealerships. I'm trying to decide whether or not to finance. I don't "need" to finance at all, in that I have enough money to pay completely for the car I want off the bat. But while negotiating, some of the salesmen say they might be able to offer a better deal if I end up financing. So my question is, it pretty common for there to be no penalty for paying off your car early (like the month after you first buy it)? I know that I should be finding out from the dealers themselves, but I wanted to kind of see if there was a standard practice of getting better prices through financing, then just paying off the car early to get the best deal possible.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:06
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Read the fine print but I've never had a car loan that had an early payment penalty. Also, how much money are we talking about, and what kind of interest rate? If it's low enough you might be better off financing anyway and investing the cash instead.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:14
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IOwnCalculus posted:Read the fine print but I've never had a car loan that had an early payment penalty. I'm going to find out what the interest rate would be, but I was told that if I finance, it would be 19k, but paying cash straight up would be another 750 dollars more. I probably wouldn't put the money into my investment portfolio. The money would probably just go into my savings account. E: I'm also getting a 4k settlement check soon from the at fault's insurance for my car that got totalled last month. DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 05:29
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:I'm currently trying to negotiate prices on a new car at several dealerships. I'm trying to decide whether or not to finance. I don't "need" to finance at all, in that I have enough money to pay completely for the car I want off the bat. But while negotiating, some of the salesmen say they might be able to offer a better deal if I end up financing. So my question is, it pretty common for there to be no penalty for paying off your car early (like the month after you first buy it)? I know that I should be finding out from the dealers themselves, but I wanted to kind of see if there was a standard practice of getting better prices through financing, then just paying off the car early to get the best deal possible. Regarding fine print- I was very careful to make sure the the loan I took out was a "simple interest" loan and that there would be no early repayment penalties, which the finance manager repeatedly insisted was the case and I imagine they are safe saying, legally. However while reading the fine print I discovered a third option- minimum finance charges. On the back of the loan document under the heading "You may prepay." you have this: quote:...if the minimum finance charge is greater than the earned finance charge, you may be charged the difference; the minimum finance charge is as follows: (1)$25 if the original Amount financed does not exceed $1,000, ... (3)$75 if the original Amount Financed is more than $2000. I imagine that's there to prevent people from taking out loans with the intention of immediately paying them off, which would make whatever kickback the lender gives the dealer a loss for the lender. Anyway sit there and patiently read every single word front and back of the document, no matter how blasé the finance manager acts about the loan.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:28
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Like IOwnCalculus was saying, it may not make sense to pay it early. If the loan is at 2% and your investments are making you 5%, you are losing out on 3% gains by paying it off early.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:10
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Which, in this example assuming a 20k loan, is 600 bucks a year.
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Dec 12, 2014 08:25
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Watch out because many incentives are an either-or setup where you can get crazy low interest or a cash incentive but not both. Also be sure to watch the paperwork closely and not fall into the trap of "oh this extended warranty is just $13 more per month" But if that isn't the case for you and you qualify for a super low rate I would say finance a chunk of it. Something like 1/2 to 1/3 so you never need to worry about being upside down.
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Dec 12, 2014 15:55
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Internet Explorer posted:Like IOwnCalculus was saying, it may not make sense to pay it early. If the loan is at 2% and your investments are making you 5%, you are losing out on 3% gains by paying it off early. You are also turning a liquid asset (cash) into a pretty illiquid one (new car). If something comes up where you need $10k, it's nice to have that in the bank, rather than locked up in the car. That loan rate on the car is a lot better than a credit card would charge to borrow the same money.
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Dec 12, 2014 16:25
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:I'm going to find out what the interest rate would be, but I was told that if I finance, it would be 19k, but paying cash straight up would be another 750 dollars more. This can be absolutely true. I know that when I bought my CR-V new, somewhere around $750-$1k of the discounting I got came in the form of a kickback from the financing - if I had brought my own or paid in cash I wouldn't have gotten that incentive. The best part, it wasn't an either/or between that and a stupid low interest rate.
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Dec 12, 2014 16:36
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Thanks for all the responses. The salesman contacted me again and said I'd get 2.99%. He also said that prepayment penalties aren't allowed in California, though my google skills have failed me in verifying if that's true or not. Why would a dealership ever give both a discount off the price AND a low interest rate? What would their incentive be to doing that? It seems like they just wouldn't make money that way...
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Dec 12, 2014 18:46
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The dealer isn't making the loan, the manufacturer most likely is and they kickback a good chunk to the dealer so that's where the money is coming from. Car manufacturers these days are basically finance companies that happen to make cars on the side to give their customers a convenient item to finance.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:20
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Shifty Pony posted:The dealer isn't making the loan, the manufacturer most likely is and they kickback a good chunk to the dealer so that's where the money is coming from. Oh, so the dealer pretty much gets a kickback from the manufacturer whenever they get someone to finance, even if there may be little to no profit from the interest?
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Dec 12, 2014 19:28
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Yes
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Dec 12, 2014 20:46
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So even if you want to pay cash, it makes sense to get financing and then just pay it off immediately?
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Dec 12, 2014 23:01
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Cicero posted:So even if you want to pay cash, it makes sense to get financing and then just pay it off immediately? If you really wanted to, yes.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:08
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Proposed Budget: 8-9k New or Used: Used Body Style: Wagon, sedan, smaller SUV How will you be using the car?: 20 mile commute 5 days a week. Rare trips into the mountains What aspects are most important to you?: reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance Manual would be nice, but not a deal breaker. Also snow and Ice does happen throughout the winter so that is something to take into account. I can do lot of different repairs/tinkering myself. I am pretty open to suggestions as I am very undecided right now. Have seen a few early 2000 Audi/BMW/Saab wagons but they had limited maintenance records for a >100k mile car, so was very skeptical. I am in Colorado so there are Subaru's and Audi's every where and along with other 4wheel/AWD cars the price is pretty inflated. I have been looking for about 3 weeks with little interest and getting close to just buying another old Porsche and the craziest snow tires I can find.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:32
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If reliability and TCO headline your needs, do not consider any Euro AWD cars.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:44
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I see cash for clunkers getting thrown around a lot still, but does anyone really have any data that it's still having a significant effect over 5 years after it ended? The most popular cars traded in during the program were late 90s SUVs. I don't doubt that it's still having some effect, but I'm not sure it's the primary reason you can't find a cheap early-mid 2000s Civic/Corolla. My guess is that it's simply because cars have gotten more expensive in general and the economy has rebounded a bit. Paid off my (used) 2010 GTI this week.  quote:New car sales and especially leases (that are the majority of the low mileage, barely used car market) tanked after 2007. This had knock on effects throughout the entire used care market. Yeah, exactly. Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 16:26
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Cash for Clunkers was a waste of money and had insignificant stimulatory effects to the auto industry. It's deservedly lambasted by conservatives, but it didn't have the effect on used car pricing that has become common knowledge. New car sales and especially leases (that are the majority of the low mileage, barely used car market) tanked after 2007. This had knock on effects throughout the entire used care market. It wasn't uncommon a couple years ago for barely used cars to sell for more than new cars with all the incentives and discounts. Many people steadfastly believe buying new is always a poor financial decision. goku chewbacca fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 17:19
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I wanted to run this by you guys to see if I am going about this the right way. I plan on financing a 2012 ford focus st for $13900 after a $6000 downpayment. My interest rate is going to be 1.8 percent for 3 years, amounting to about $400 per month. Should I be worried about paying the car off faster than this? Or should I not finance at all?
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Dec 13, 2014 17:35
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Bogard posted:I wanted to run this by you guys to see if I am going about this the right way. I plan on financing a 2012 ford focus st for $13900 after a $6000 downpayment. My interest rate is going to be 1.8 percent for 3 years, amounting to about $400 per month. Should I be worried about paying the car off faster than this? Or should I not finance at all? How much do you hate not having money in your pocket? Like does the fact that you're WASTING a whole few hundred bucks amortized over 3 years going to financially ruin you?
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Dec 13, 2014 18:18
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