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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I feel like the first thing people don't "get" about CUVs is that they are always smaller than the same priced sedan/wagon (like those exist).
Like the cx-5 is supposedly the cuv equivalent of a mazda 6, yet it is smaller inside in almost all ways than a 6 sedan (and smaller in all ways except height than the wagon we don't get). To get anything comparable to a mazda 6, you need to buy the much more expensive cx-7.
CUVs are basically a rip off. They can't go off road anyhow, they get worse fuel economy than sedans and wagon, and they cost more. And yet, you basically have to buy one today if you want a hatchback bigger than a mazda3 because we don't get wagons because insecure parents don't want to look like parents (ignoring that a CUV is the minivan of the 2010s and 2020s).

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luminalflux
May 27, 2005





I bought our car online by emailing the car purchasing service and never setting foot in a dealership, but I had also, you know, sat in one beforehand. We rented a few over a couple months as zipcars for weekend trips and found one we liked.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





Toyota Prius

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005
NOBODY HAS SUFFERED AS MUCH AS BOOMERS AND I WILL DEFEND THEM TO MY LAST BREATH

Bongo Bill posted:

What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

A bicycle.

More seriously, there is no best car. Just one that best fits your needs. Tell us what they are.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Bongo Bill posted:

What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

Everyone in AI hates cars so either a Miata or a brown manual wagon.

Godzilla07
Oct 4, 2008



Bongo Bill posted:

What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

Your local Toyota dealer will have something for you.

thekeeshman
Feb 21, 2007


Bongo Bill posted:

What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

PT cruiser, if you're going to hate cars regardless you might as well get one that deserves the hate.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Bongo Bill posted:

What, in your wildest opinion, is the best car for someone who hates cars?

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?



Vespa is going to conquer the market one way or the other

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006




I need this for the left lane

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.





Pander posted:

I'm in the same boat as a bunch of recent goons. ~$35k budget, crossover SUV. Go camping a lot so want some cargo space. Upgrading an 09 Forester, which has a great glass canopy the wife loves.

Just to update, got new 2021 rav4 hybrid XLE for $31k out the door after $4k trade-in.

I'll let the thread know if we find a flaw in it. So far it's a drat fine automobile.

Fake edit: the passenger side front seat having only forward/backward and recline options sucks for me, but if I'm in it I'm driving 99% of the time so not a biggie. Wife doesn't mind that.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Helping my brother decide if he wants to buy:

2011 Ford Edge with 265,000 KM: price aside, specifics of the quality of maintainence from the current owner aside, would you trust that make/model/year to stay on the road much longer? He basically wants something that won't spontaneously combust and leave him without a vehicle, or with a sudden major repair that will cost him more than the car is worth. Low risk or high risk?

e. Another way to ask the question: if all other things are equal and we're in a frictionless vaccuum is a 2011 Edge a lower or higher risk buy than other high mileage / lower price used cars?

CommonShore fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jul 24, 2021

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005
NOBODY HAS SUFFERED AS MUCH AS BOOMERS AND I WILL DEFEND THEM TO MY LAST BREATH

CommonShore posted:

Helping my brother decide if he wants to buy:

2011 Ford Edge with 265,000 KM: price aside, specifics of the quality of maintainence from the current owner aside, would you trust that make/model/year to stay on the road much longer? He basically wants something that won't spontaneously combust and leave him without a vehicle, or with a sudden major repair that will cost him more than the car is worth. Low risk or high risk?

e. Another way to ask the question: if all other things are equal and we're in a frictionless vaccuum is a 2011 Edge a lower or higher risk buy than other high mileage / lower price used cars?

With older cars, you get survivor bias. All companies make some lemons, but they don't last long and are off to junk yards in a few years. At 10 years, most of the ones that were just made badly are gone. Manufacturers that inherently build better cars will have a larger fraction of their cars still on the road.

So to a large extent, 10 year old cars are almost interchangeable with respect to future reliability. What makes the difference are owner maintenance and exposure to road salt.

If the car is in good shape and has been well maintained, it's probably going to be good for a while yet. However, at that age everything is a crap shoot. There's always the possibility of something major blowing up and it will never be as reliable as a new car under warranty.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Deteriorata posted:

With older cars, you get survivor bias. All companies make some lemons, but they don't last long and are off to junk yards in a few years. At 10 years, most of the ones that were just made badly are gone. Manufacturers that inherently build better cars will have a larger fraction of their cars still on the road.

So to a large extent, 10 year old cars are almost interchangeable with respect to future reliability. What makes the difference are owner maintenance and exposure to road salt.

If the car is in good shape and has been well maintained, it's probably going to be good for a while yet. However, at that age everything is a crap shoot. There's always the possibility of something major blowing up and it will never be as reliable as a new car under warranty.

Thanks - that's the type of info I was looking for. I'll pass that on to him. Namaste.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

The one thing about Ford FWD V-6’s, the 3.5 and 3.7, found in the Flex, is the water pump is a ticking time bomb - it’s under the timing cover, so if it starts leaking badly, it barfs all it’s coolant into the oil sump and the coolant will ruin the rod/main bearings before the driver even realizes there’s a problem. The Explorer, Taurus and Flex forums are chock full of people who had this happen at slightly over 100K miles and are on the hook for a $6-8K engine bill.

I manage a state fleet of cars and we’ve had this happen a couple times, one car did it twice, but we caught it before disaster struck.

The good news: There’s a tiny weep hole that extends out of the engine, under the alternator, so if you see a tiny drip of coolant from an odd place, STOP loving DRIVING.

The bad news: you almost have to pull the engine to change that pump, it’s an $1800-$2K job, and twenty+ hours if you’re trying to DIY for the first time.

Edit: Before someone WELL ACTUALLY’s me, the RWD version of these engines have an external water pump that’s easy to change and won’t contaminate the oil when it fails.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lol, fuckin Ford, who do they think they are VW?

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

JnnyThndrs posted:

The one thing about Ford FWD V-6’s, the 3.5 and 3.7, found in the Flex, is the water pump is a ticking time bomb - it’s under the timing cover, so if it starts leaking badly, it barfs all it’s coolant into the oil sump and the coolant will ruin the rod/main bearings before the driver even realizes there’s a problem. The Explorer, Taurus and Flex forums are chock full of people who had this happen at slightly over 100K miles and are on the hook for a $6-8K engine bill.

I manage a state fleet of cars and we’ve had this happen a couple times, one car did it twice, but we caught it before disaster struck.

The good news: There’s a tiny weep hole that extends out of the engine, under the alternator, so if you see a tiny drip of coolant from an odd place, STOP loving DRIVING.

The bad news: you almost have to pull the engine to change that pump, it’s an $1800-$2K job, and twenty+ hours if you’re trying to DIY for the first time.

Edit: Before someone WELL ACTUALLY’s me, the RWD version of these engines have an external water pump that’s easy to change and won’t contaminate the oil when it fails.

I think the old Chrysler 2.7l and 3.5l V6s had the same issue. Seems like a bad design.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 25, 2021

unbuttonedclone
Dec 30, 2008


I think this is a good idea, but I thought I'd run it past more knowledgeable people.

I have: 2005 Escape (3l v6) with 157k miles on it, 7k of those are on a helicoiled spark plug hole. Runs decently, put a new alternator in it recently (do not ever change the alternator in these Escapes, huge two-day process). Been dependable but the mileage is up there and I'm still paranoid the helicoil might fail some day even though it's made it this far. My Ford guy uncle said the 3.0l v6 will go around 180k but will the rest of the car make it is the question.

My dad has: A 2000 2-door basic-rear end Golf with 90k on it that he fixed up for rallycross. They cancel about every race so he gave up on it. I know he at least put new brakes on it and probably did some other work for his racing, but it seems pretty solid. He rebuilt it it but it was mostly just replacing fenders.

(Salvage title on both)

He said he'd give me the Golf for whatever I can sell the Escape for or less. So, is downgrading 5 years but upgrading 67k miles worth it? It's not going to really cost me anything and the lower mileage really appeals to me. The Golf gets slightly better mileage according to estimates (and is a 5-speed if that makes a difference in your opinion.)

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.


I would have to think long and hard whether I'd take a salvage title MkIV Golf that's been raced (or even just "fixed up for racing" by an amateur) for free, let alone in trade for any other running car.

The miles here don't really matter. What matters is how hard people have beat on the car. Ordinary commuter/errand-runner jobs are more or less interchangeable, but a mile of dirt racing is nastier on a car than 20 miles of driving down the interstate.

The Escape doesn't sound fantastic either, but between the two I'd stick with the Ford and save up for a better car once the market calms down.

unbuttonedclone
Dec 30, 2008


Data points:

I'm not even sure if he raced it once.

He also doesn't necessarily race. He just kinda like cruising around the autocross track kind of chill like. He doesn't actually like to go fast or win, just likes driving on the track I guess. He's not burning the clutch out and toe-heel shifting and all that poo poo.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Does your dad have another buyer lined up for the Golf or something and giving you the 4 squares? Just keep driving your car until it dies and then revisit this with him if you want.

unbuttonedclone
Dec 30, 2008


Throatwarbler posted:

Does your dad have another buyer lined up for the Golf or something and giving you the 4 squares? Just keep driving your car until it dies and then revisit this with him if you want.

He's getting rid of it. I asked how many miles were on it and he said he'd rather get it to me than mess with selling it.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.


unbuttonedclone posted:

Data points:

I'm not even sure if he raced it once.

He also doesn't necessarily race. He just kinda like cruising around the autocross track kind of chill like. He doesn't actually like to go fast or win, just likes driving on the track I guess. He's not burning the clutch out and toe-heel shifting and all that poo poo.

Transmissions and clutches aren't the only things that go wrong in race cars. Going fast over bumps is very hard on the suspension. He's probably not holding it at highway cruising RPMs, either, even if he's not going all out 10 tenths balls to the wall. Racing is hard on cars.

Even if it's never been driven on any kind of track, it's still a salvage titled 2000 Golf. The MkIVs had a well-earned rep for unreliability. And, it's been "race prepped" by an amateur who seems to really not take their hobby seriously. There are some mods in the mix, which is bad news for any cheap used car.

Don't let yourself get fixated on low mileage. The odometer is not a magic condition gauge. Let him find some other sucker. You should probably find a car to replace your Escape, too, but it shouldn't be this one.

e:

unbuttonedclone posted:

He's getting rid of it. I asked how many miles were on it and he said he'd rather get it to me than mess with selling it.

That's because selling an unreliable, modified, salvage-titled car is going to be difficult for him, unless you happen to just do all the work of selling a different car and give him the money.

This would be a good deal for him. It would not be a good deal for you.

Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 25, 2021

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Throatwarbler posted:

I think the old Chrysler 2.7l and 3.5l V6s had the same issue. Seems like a bad design.

Yup, that’s the first thing we all said the first time it happened -‘holy poo poo, why would you copy a Chrysler 2.7?”

I can see why they did it- there’s very little room anywhere around the right side of the chassis, but at least you’d think they’d design a super awesome killer water pump double sealing system with a huge weep hole and maybe a sensor monitoring moisture.
Nope, it’s a regular mediocre water pump run off the timing chain and a miniscule easily-clogged weep passage.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Don't have a "race car" as your only car

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005
NOBODY HAS SUFFERED AS MUCH AS BOOMERS AND I WILL DEFEND THEM TO MY LAST BREATH

unbuttonedclone posted:

He's getting rid of it. I asked how many miles were on it and he said he'd rather get it to me than mess with selling it.

Sounds like you really want the Golf, but you'll likely regret it. A 20-year-old car with a salvage title and amateur mods is going to spend more time on jack stands than on the road.

unbuttonedclone
Dec 30, 2008


There are no mods. He changed the brakes all around, water pump, timing belt. New hood, new fenders. And when I say "race" I mean puttering around because he doesn't actually "race" as one might think and he did that one time. So, yeah, I'm sure you all know I was going to get it anyways but good insights, thanks. I kinda love it. Also, I guess it's important to know I have access to a fully stocked garage and someone with 40+ years of automotive knowledge that helps with my cheap-rear end cars.

Anyways you might enjoy this anecdote about selling a used car in 2021:

Put my 05 Escape with 158k up for sale for $2,150 this afternoon (salvage title also).

Got immediate messages, guy offered me $2k, showed up when he said he would, drove it, and bought it. It was gone in three hours. No negotiation besides his initial offer. I bought the Escape in 2018 with 130k for $2,300. Kind of crazy.

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

It's up for sale on marketplace for $4500

Go look it up

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






He'll get it too

unbuttonedclone
Dec 30, 2008


I actually did look and it's not (yet!). Data point: Live in loving Kansas so cars, like everything else, is cheaper if you don't mind the mind numbing parts of living here.

Dealers are trying to sell them with 200k miles for that $3,500 plus though. Some private sellers are up there but

https://imgur.com/a/XJJcFN6

I guess they all know my uncle who told me the 3.0l V6 is good for 180k.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

unbuttonedclone posted:

I actually did look and it's not (yet!). Data point: Live in loving Kansas so cars, like everything else, is cheaper if you don't mind the mind numbing parts of living here.

Then it's on the back of a truck being brought to another market to flip for a profit of more than you sold it for.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Motronic posted:

Then it's on the back of a truck being brought to another market to flip for a profit of more than you sold it for.

Arbitrage - screwing over small markets since 1704.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004



Providing liquidity to salvage-titled-200k-miles-vehicle owners is a service worth having. In other circumstances, getting that vehicle off your lawn might only be worth salvage (lol) value.

CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001



Passion’s Wrench

bird with big dick posted:

Probably don't need to feel too bad there was a dude on the Mach-e forums that paid $5,300 for an extended warranty and $5,000 for a service plan. A service plan. On an EV.
For those who don't know, the only regular service an EV needs is rotating tires and replacing wipers and cabin air filters. There's no oil, no belts, the brake pads get far less wear and tear due to regenerative braking.


I can't claim I was perfect, I bought an EV Niro and got the extended 10y/100k driveline warranty because it included the battery and I've got 55k miles left to kill the battery. If there's no problems then I paid $$$ for 5 years of peace of mind.

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

I vaguely remember Kia / Hyundai having a 100,000 mi drivetrain warranty by default.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Nitrox posted:

I vaguely remember Kia / Hyundai having a 100,000 mi drivetrain warranty by default.
Kia did for sure, it was a 10 year/100,000 mi drivetrain back when I bought in 2010.

Bouillon Rube
Aug 6, 2009



Kia still has a 100k powertrain warranty for sure

Not sure what expensive items that are prone to breaking and aren’t covered by powertrain. AC condenser? Infotainment on luxury cars?

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015




moana posted:

Kia did for sure, it was a 10 year/100,000 mi drivetrain back when I bought in 2010.

I remember in the 90s my study hall monitor talking about how great Hyundai's powertrain warranty was. And that's when they actually were kinda pieces of poo poo, or at least were perceived as such.

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




bird with big dick posted:

I remember in the 90s my study hall monitor talking about how great Hyundai's powertrain warranty was. And that's when they actually were kinda pieces of poo poo, or at least were perceived as such.

that warranty plus some better styling efforts made the Korean cars a thing in the US

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