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CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001



Passion’s Wrench

Nitrox posted:

I vaguely remember Kia / Hyundai having a 100,000 mi drivetrain warranty by default.

https://www.vehiclehistory.com/questions/whats-the-2019-kia-niro-ev-battery-warranty-196972

quote:


The 2019 Kia Niro's EV battery maintains an extensive warranty that covers the replacement of the battery pack, gear drive unit, electric motor, the onboard charger and the electric power control unit, among other charging components. The coverage is extended for 120 months or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Goddammit :negative: The way it was explained to me was that the battery pack didn't carry the same warranty.

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EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH




Alright, my wife and I paid off her CX9, so I can finally get rid of the 03 Explorer I got stuck with. I initially *thought* I wanted a truck, but living in The Southô those things are somehow more expensive used than they are new. That said, I'm considering a sedan or wagon as I don't really need much hauling space as much as I thought it would just be handy. I do have 2 kids (7 & 11) so need to be able to drive around with them comfortably and we take the Mazda on trips since it's roomy. What I'm looking at so far are some flavor of Subaru (which I know zero about), a Jetta or Golf (never owned a VW), or a Civic (I had an Accord for a few years and loved it). I wouldn't mind another crossover SUV, but don't feel like we really *need* it as much as I just like driving up high. Looking to keep it under 25k; any other rides I should be considering as well?

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


How are you liking the CX9? If you're happy with it, I would check out the Mazda3 hatchback. You likely don't need the added complexity of the AWD in Subaru. Civic hatchback is worth a look. Maybe add the Corolla hatchback to the list as well?

If it were me, I think I'd be hard pressed to choose something that wasn't the Mazda3 hatchback.

EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH




Internet Explorer posted:

How are you liking the CX9? If you're happy with it, I would check out the Mazda3 hatchback. You likely don't need the added complexity of the AWD in Subaru. Civic hatchback is worth a look. Maybe add the Corolla hatchback to the list as well?

If it were me, I think I'd be hard pressed to choose something that wasn't the Mazda3 hatchback.

Ehhhh itísÖok? Weíve had a few weird little things go wrong like seat belt buckles exploding; all of the infotainment poo poo stop working except for the radio and CD player, window motor breaking despite literally being used like 3 times, sun visor flopping etc.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




if you like a high driving position just buy a crossover, there's nothing particularly wrong with them.

the Mazda3 hatch sacrifices a lot of practicality for "styling" as the back seat isn't very large and the cargo area is compromised. new civic hatch is a lot more practical.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Golf R

EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH





That thing is insanely expensive. Is the R like VW's Honda Si equivalent?

Also, what's the deal with the added "complexity" of all wheel drive on Subarus?

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.


EdsTeioh posted:

That thing is insanely expensive. Is the R like VW's Honda Si equivalent?

Also, what's the deal with the added "complexity" of all wheel drive on Subarus?

The VW GTI is the Civic Si competitor. The Golf R is closer to the Civic Type R, although itís not quite as far down the ďgently caress practicality, go fast and look ridiculous doing itĒ rabbit hole.

AWD is more mechanically complex than FWD (three times the differentials! 150% more driveshafts!), thereís a gas mileage penalty, and Subarus are generally kind of meh on overall reliability as a brand. If you actually need AWD, Subaru has a good system and most of their cars arenít too bad - but you live in the south. You almost certainly donít need anything more than two wheel drive, and if you do, you probably need a system with a transfer case and low range gearing.

EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH




Space Gopher posted:

The VW GTI is the Civic Si competitor. The Golf R is closer to the Civic Type R, although itís not quite as far down the ďgently caress practicality, go fast and look ridiculous doing itĒ rabbit hole.

AWD is more mechanically complex than FWD (three times the differentials! 150% more driveshafts!), thereís a gas mileage penalty, and Subarus are generally kind of meh on overall reliability as a brand. If you actually need AWD, Subaru has a good system and most of their cars arenít too bad - but you live in the south. You almost certainly donít need anything more than two wheel drive, and if you do, you probably need a system with a transfer case and low range gearing.

Nah, I don't "need" any of that stuff and if I did, it'd be on some kind of toy and not a daily driver anyway.

There ARE 2 Type Rs for sale here and got drat if they aren't tempting (spoiler: I'll never buy one, but still)

EDIT: Also holy poo poo do I hate "Call for Price" on dealer sites.

DildenAnders
Mar 16, 2016

"I recommend Batman especially, for he tends to transcend the abysmal society in which he's found himself. His morality is rather rigid, also. I rather respect Batman.√ʬĬĚ

The Golf R is closer to the Civic Type R, while the GTI is the counterpart to the Civic Si. The Golf R is also essentially a different skin on an Audi TT coupe, so they are quite a bit of money and I don't think that in line with what you were looking for (assuming you're looking for something relatively new at least).

And there's actually a lot of nuance to the different AWD setups. Most companies (like Honda, VW, I believe Ford as well) use what's called a Haldex AWD system, which is essentially just a clutch pack that engages the rear wheels when the front wheels start to slip. This means they are just FWD 99% of the time, and even when they are in AWD they are sending at most 50% of the power to the rears. This is probably a lot more practical for every day use but it means a Haldex AWD system is still going to be very front wheel biased, and therefore handle a lot like a FWD car.
Subaru on the other hand has a center differential that sends power the rear wheels all the time, as well as fancy computer stuff that someone else could explain a lot better that makes it a lot less front-biased in spirited driving. It changes the handling dynamics a lot more and that's why it's pricier than the simpler haldex type AWD systems (not to mention there's more going on in them). They are quite a bit heavier, and driving 4 wheels all the time is not great for gas milage, but Subaru has gotten a great reputation for their AWD systems so people pay a premium for them. If you're interested there are plenty of more correct and in-depth explainers out there. If you're looking to buy an AWD vehicle I would strongly recommend you do your own research into it, but thought I'd give you a primer because it's pretty remarkable how many different systems there are to make cars all wheel drive.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Ford has a Haldex system in the Focus RS that can send 70% of the power to the rear :eng101:

by sacrificing the longevity of the clutch pack

EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH




DildenAnders posted:

The Golf R is closer to the Civic Type R, while the GTI is the counterpart to the Civic Si. The Golf R is also essentially a different skin on an Audi TT coupe, so they are quite a bit of money and I don't think that in line with what you were looking for (assuming you're looking for something relatively new at least).

And there's actually a lot of nuance to the different AWD setups. Most companies (like Honda, VW, I believe Ford as well) use what's called a Haldex AWD system, which is essentially just a clutch pack that engages the rear wheels when the front wheels start to slip. This means they are just FWD 99% of the time, and even when they are in AWD they are sending at most 50% of the power to the rears. This is probably a lot more practical for every day use but it means a Haldex AWD system is still going to be very front wheel biased, and therefore handle a lot like a FWD car.
Subaru on the other hand has a center differential that sends power the rear wheels all the time, as well as fancy computer stuff that someone else could explain a lot better that makes it a lot less front-biased in spirited driving. It changes the handling dynamics a lot more and that's why it's pricier than the simpler haldex type AWD systems (not to mention there's more going on in them). They are quite a bit heavier, and driving 4 wheels all the time is not great for gas milage, but Subaru has gotten a great reputation for their AWD systems so people pay a premium for them. If you're interested there are plenty of more correct and in-depth explainers out there. If you're looking to buy an AWD vehicle I would strongly recommend you do your own research into it, but thought I'd give you a primer because it's pretty remarkable how many different systems there are to make cars all wheel drive.

Lot of good info there; thanks!

At this point, I think I've ruled Subaru out unless I just get some killer deal, so the Mazda 3, Civic, and Jetta or Golf are the frontrunners at this point.

nitsuga
Dec 31, 2006

It's the only way to live.

EdsTeioh posted:

Lot of good info there; thanks!

At this point, I think I've ruled Subaru out unless I just get some killer deal, so the Mazda 3, Civic, and Jetta or Golf are the frontrunners at this point.

Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to take a peek at midsize offerings too. Accord, Mazda6, Passat, Golf Alltrack, et cetera. In your position, I'd try to get a few test drives in to see what you like and what the you find in your budget.

EdsTeioh
Oct 23, 2004

PRAY FOR DEATH




nitsuga posted:

Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to take a peek at midsize offerings too. Accord, Mazda6, Passat, Golf Alltrack, et cetera. In your position, I'd try to get a few test drives in to see what you like and what the you find in your budget.

Yeah, gonna look at those as well. I just test drove a '19 Civic Sport hatchback and LOVED the thing but I think we're too far apart on price+my trade in.

Tagichatn
Jun 7, 2009



Please recommend me a 3 row (midsize?) suv or minivan. I got two kids now and my mazda6 trunk is not cutting it anymore or at least it wouldn't if we were actually traveling somewhere where I needed to pack suitcases. Hopefully that day is coming though so I've been looking at suvs and minivans. Compact suvs don't seem like much of an upgrade over my sedan, sure there's more trunk space but it's basically just extra vertical space. So I've been looking at 3 rows suvs now since they have a ton of space with the back row down. We're not planning on any more kids so having a cramped 3rd row isn't much of an issue. Minivans are a possibility too but they can be more expensive and seem generally longer/wider and I'm already bad at parallel parking.

Anyway, I'd welcome any real life experience and testimonials since I'm just stuck in test drive and spread sheet hell now. I'd value safety, reliability and comfort in the cars in that order

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005
NOBODY HAS SUFFERED AS MUCH AS BOOMERS AND I WILL DEFEND THEM TO MY LAST BREATH

Tagichatn posted:

Please recommend me a 3 row (midsize?) suv or minivan. I got two kids now and my mazda6 trunk is not cutting it anymore or at least it wouldn't if we were actually traveling somewhere where I needed to pack suitcases. Hopefully that day is coming though so I've been looking at suvs and minivans. Compact suvs don't seem like much of an upgrade over my sedan, sure there's more trunk space but it's basically just extra vertical space. So I've been looking at 3 rows suvs now since they have a ton of space with the back row down. We're not planning on any more kids so having a cramped 3rd row isn't much of an issue. Minivans are a possibility too but they can be more expensive and seem generally longer/wider and I'm already bad at parallel parking.

Anyway, I'd welcome any real life experience and testimonials since I'm just stuck in test drive and spread sheet hell now. I'd value safety, reliability and comfort in the cars in that order

Three minivans: Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Pacifica, Toyota Sienna.

All three are excellent,comfortable people-movers with good reliability. Which is best is up to you.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


Tagichatn posted:

Anyway, I'd welcome any real life experience and testimonials since I'm just stuck in test drive and spread sheet hell now. I'd value safety, reliability and comfort in the cars in that order

Go to your local Toyota dealer and see which vehicle you like best. The Sienna is a great van. The highlander is your midsize suv option.

We owned 3 Ford Explorers before moving to an Expedition. Same situation, 2 kids, 3rd row down for extra storage usually.

I donít really personally worry about reliability since we tend to lease our main family vehicle and are almost never out of factory warranty so I canít comment on that.

Iím not a fan of the new Ford Explorer though, so cross that off your list.

The new Kia/Hyundai suvs are really nice, but good luck trying to buy one.

Whatís your budget and requirements?

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.


For the requirements part: do you need to replace the Mazda now, or is this a forward-looking thing?

Right now is a bad time to buy a car. If you need to, you need to - but if you can put it off, that would probably be a good move.

Tagichatn
Jun 7, 2009



Deteriorata posted:

Three minivans: Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Pacifica, Toyota Sienna.

All three are excellent,comfortable people-movers with good reliability. Which is best is up to you.

Thanks for the tips!

skipdogg posted:

Go to your local Toyota dealer and see which vehicle you like best. The Sienna is a great van. The highlander is your midsize suv option.

We owned 3 Ford Explorers before moving to an Expedition. Same situation, 2 kids, 3rd row down for extra storage usually.

I donít really personally worry about reliability since we tend to lease our main family vehicle and are almost never out of factory warranty so I canít comment on that.

Iím not a fan of the new Ford Explorer though, so cross that off your list.

The new Kia/Hyundai suvs are really nice, but good luck trying to buy one.

Whatís your budget and requirements?

Sorry, I was dumb and didn't read the OP.
Proposed Budget: $40k
New or Used: New
Body Style: Midsize suv, minivan
How will you be using the car?: Driving two kids and spouse around plus all their crap in the trunk.
What aspects are most important to you? Safety, reliability, comfort, good trunk space. We're probably looking for a third row although it doesn't matter much if it's cramped since I can fit my immediate family in the front and 2nd row.

I haven't looked at the new Kia/Hyundai suvs yet, so far I've just test driven the mazda cx 5/9, honda cr-v and subaru ascent.

Space Gopher posted:

For the requirements part: do you need to replace the Mazda now, or is this a forward-looking thing?

Right now is a bad time to buy a car. If you need to, you need to - but if you can put it off, that would probably be a good move.
It's not super urgent, is it a bad time because of the chip shortage?

nelson
Apr 12, 2009


College Slice

2021 Toyota Sienna and 2022 Kia Carnival are both good.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



My partner and I are looking for a $25,000 - $30,000 car. We need the car now for our work commute.

Profile:
- Very, very inexperienced drivers
- No passengers 99% of the time
- Enough cargo space to carry some mid-sized furniture (e.g., desks)
- Bay Area, with 95% city driving and 5% in off-road driving
- Will be used for daily work commute (~30 miles), grocery shopping, venturing out of the city, etc.

We're most concerned about safety and parking, and have been looking at these features (please feel free to chime in on the usefulness of these features):

- Rear view camera with guide lines
- Top-down/360-degree view parking assistance
- Some kind of assistance with blind spots
- Apple CarPlay or some equivalent where directions appear on the car's dashboard/LCD

We've been considering mainly hatchbacks and subcompact SUVs -- Mazda3 Hatchback and Mazda CX-30. But it's out of our budget ($35k) if we spring for the Turbo Premium Plus trims, which is the only one with a 360-degree parking assistance.

We're looking to see if there's something else out there we should consider. Thanks!

luminalflux
May 27, 2005





As someone who street parked their car in SF for years and hadnít driven before I moved here 6 years ago: Iíve never felt I needed more than the backup camera with guidelines to parallel park in the city. You quickly learn how to translate the guidelines and where the curb is to when to crank the wheel (on mine itís ďfull over on the steering until the second line touches the curb, then full over in the other directionĒ

360 parking camera feels like a gimmick you most likely donít need.

In short: Prius

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

luminalflux posted:

As someone who street parked their car in SF for years and hadnít driven before I moved here 6 years ago: Iíve never felt I needed more than the backup camera with guidelines to parallel park in the city. You quickly learn how to translate the guidelines and where the curb is to when to crank the wheel (on mine itís ďfull over on the steering until the second line touches the curb, then full over in the other directionĒ

360 parking camera feels like a gimmick you most likely donít need.

In short: Prius

I agree though, I will, based on renting ~30ish cars a year, note that some cars have much better backup cameras than others. It's worth actually trying them out.
Some don't have any lines at all, which is super annoying. The best ones have a template that show exactly where you will go when turning. A couple even give distances.
I have parked in LA and SF in rental cars and trucks (which are harder to park because you're not used to them), and I have never wished for anything more than a decent backup camera.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



I love the 360 camera(s) in my CX5. Is it worth $10k no not at all, but it's a great feature that I'd hate to give up personally. Visibility in most modern vehicles sucks, even the "good" ones. 360 cameras and distance sensors completely trivialize parking and tight maneuvering.

I've gotten on for years and years without it completely fine, but now that I have it I don't want to give it up.

But an actually good backup camera with dynamic guide lines is the most important feature, which not all new cars have either. Since it's a requirement on new cars, a lot of less recently updated or cheaper cars really phone it in with bad quality systems. Like was said it's worth comparing if it's something you care about because the difference can be vast.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Aug 2, 2021

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Get a prius and put steel wheels on so you don't have to care about curbing them.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




it's a little unclear based on the post and replies but if you are planning to park on the street i don't think you should buy a new car

what does 5% "off-road driving" mean to you?

I don't think blind spot detection is all that useful, you need to verify anyway by turning your head and using your head is good practice. lane keeping is probably/possibly more useful.

the CX-30 is not a very large car, especially from a cargo space perspective. CX-5 would be a better choice if you really want to haul around desks on a regular basis. But the Prius is probably the way to go since it's very reliable. Just make sure you don't mind the way it drives.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

Iím kind of wondering how big of a desk you plan on movingÖdepending on the desk a CX5 or Prius wouldnít be big enough if the legs donít fold, etc.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

You can rent a truck from Home Depot for like $30. Evaluate how many times a week you actually need to move furniture.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



The idea is to be able to lug some furniture back from IKEA -- most of their stuff is nicely disassembled. The vehicle just needs to be big enough to, say, contain the surface of a medium-sized desk. It'd definitely not be a regular thing.

And thanks everyone for the inputs so far. We're looking at Priuses. They aren't much cheaper than the Mazdas in this current market -- it's $20k-$25k in our area for one with moderate mileage. But point definitely taken about their reliability.

None of the recommended cars we've seen so far have the backup camera with dynamic guide lines, though. I'm sure our priorities sound odd but like I mentioned, we took public transit our entire lives and are absolute novices at driving. We've read that some of these driving/parking assistance features sharply reduce accident rates, so that's coloring what our priorities here.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






They will definitely make not crunching your bumper into a bollard more foolproof, but the flip side is those expensive cameras and sensors are very exposed and if you DO get into a fender bender it's gonna be $$$$

laxbro
Apr 20, 2013
Relax.

You can fit an incredible amount of cargo into a prius with the seats folded down. I've purchased tons of furniture from ikea and haven't had an issue. Just know the dimensions of your prius and the item you're purchasing. Rent a truck or do ikea delivery for any items that can't fit (which will be far and few bewteen).

The thing with parallel parking is that you need to be okay with messing it up and not stressing out if there are cars waiting behind you. Learning how to do the initial "cut" back into the spot is literally 90% of parallel parking. As long as you understand the basics of how to line up your car and do the initial cut back you will be fine. You can go back and forth a few times in the spot to even things out if you cut too early or cut too late.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





laxbro posted:

Rent a truck or do ikea delivery for any items that can't fit (which will be far and few bewteen).

Needs to be emphasized here. Even some of their flat pack furniture is in boxes so long that you simply won't fit them inside anything shorter than three rows, but that's a silly reason to buy something that will spend the vast majority of the time not driving to/from IKEA.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




parking features do not help reduce actual accidents that matter.

helpful safety features in rough order of priority:

top tier:
Electronic Stability Control and traction control
anti lock brakes and electronic brakeforce distribution
forward collision warning and automatic emergency braking
brake assistance

next tier:
Lane keep assistance
rear cross traffic
blind spot monitoring
adaptive headlights

convenience features:
back up camera (mandatory now)
360 degree camera
parking proximity sensors
self parking poo poo
active cruise control

the top tier will probably either help you not get in an accident or significantly reduce the severity of the accident. the next tier will maybe help you not get in an accident more marginally but really won't do anything to reduce the severity. the bottom tier makes your life better but doesn't really do that much to help you not get in accidents. It might help you not say, bump in to a car parallel parking... but you should be going slowly enough that you should not do any significant damage to your car or someone else's during parking.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

but you should be going slowly enough that you should not do any significant damage to your car or someone else's during parking.

This is true but people really don't like scratches on their bumpers from people who don't know how to park so I recommend at least proximity sensors if you want to avoid people being very upset with you. And a sideswipe on a quarter panel from an improperly cut parallel park can do a surprisingly significant amount of damage, even at low speed.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




if you're street parking a car in a city it's just a reality of life so i'm sure my tolerance for such things is extremely high compared to most people

most car's prox sensors won't save you from a bad cut since they don't really cover the quarter that well. you need a 360 camera for that. or you could i dunno just use the mark 1 eyeball like god intended.

luminalflux
May 27, 2005





IOwnCalculus posted:

Needs to be emphasized here. Even some of their flat pack furniture is in boxes so long that you simply won't fit them inside anything shorter than three rows, but that's a silly reason to buy something that will spend the vast majority of the time not driving to/from IKEA.

As someone who's furnished 3 apartments/houses in the last as many years, having Ikea delivered to your door is the way to go, esp bulky stuff like a the highest PAX wardrobe in a double-wide configuration. I drove SD->LA to get HEMNES bookshelves and the only way it would fit in my crosstrek was by taking up the armrest rendering it unusable for the drive.

Don't buy a car based on going to Ikea.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Parallel parking is like the one maneuver not effected by the modern pillar bulking since you do it relationally looking out your side windows and side mirror. A 360 might give you confidence to cut at the right place if you aren't spatially oriented. But as mentioned dynamic guide lines may help you avoid brushing the curb but don't help with the actual hard part to cut at the right points. So throwing my hat in the 360 or nothing for your requirement with a side note to reconsider the requirement because it's probably only on top trims (if available at all) of the cars you're looking at.

I subtly miss dynamic lines for general backward maneuvering with a normal CX-5 after driving rental cars with it for so long but the reality is it doesn't do anything my brain isn't already doing.

I got a CX-5 for "hauling furniture from estate sales" and my haul count in 3.5 months now is 0. Lmao don't buy a CUV for furniture.

E. Just reading between the lines of the situation a bit, safety systems are above all supplementary to your skills because the goal is to avoid accidents entirely. Whether you have an ancient drivers license since you were 16 that you've kept up to date but never used, or are recently trained, the mandatory US drivers education is really half the story so if you don't have an experienced, safe copilot to give you feedback you should consider additional driving school if you can afford the time and money to do so.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 2, 2021

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

I'm pretty sure any piece of furniture you purchase at a store could be shipped or delivered to your door for a nominal fee. Hardly worth buying a car to accommodate that rare occasion.

There is also an Uber-style app that lets you hire people for small delivery and assembly jobs.

And renting a car/van is a very easy and convenient process these days


quote:


I got a CX-5 for "hauling furniture from estate sales" and my haul count in 3.5 months now is 0. Lmao don't buy a CUV for furniture.

Tale as old as time

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






zedprime posted:

I got a CX-5 for "hauling furniture from estate sales" and my haul count in 3.5 months now is 0. Lmao don't buy a CUV for furniture.

But all the divorced women in their late thirties will see your CX-5 and go "ooh they must get ALL the estate sale deals" and isn't that worth the price of admission?

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




KillHour posted:

But all the divorced women in their late thirties will see your CX-5 and go "ooh they must get ALL the estate sale deals" and isn't that worth the price of admission?

bro you do not get pussy shrapnel in CX-5 you need a Infiniti of some kind i think it was an infiniti? maybe a lexus?

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