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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

skipdogg posted:

The Prius is a very solid car, but I don't think the poster can find a lightly used one within the given budget. The only Prius' (or is it Prii?), around me under 16K are all 5+years old with 100K+ miles on them.
I bought my mom a fairly loaded 2008 prius with maybe 30k mi for under $16k out the door last winter (Jan 2011). They can't have gotten much more expensive and that was from a dealer (non-toyota). This is all NorCal which is prius crazy.

The new prius did a number on old prius resale values.
Also, quite frankly, the prius is probably the most reliable car Toyota makes, so one a bit older than average wouldn't scare me. The 2004 that the 2008 replaced was perfect until someone ran a red light.

As noted above, a base model comes with everything you need like ac, radio, power windows, some years even a backup camera. The higher tiers, which really don't command much more money (except the tourings), just have stuff you might want.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:28 on May 22, 2012

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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mandalay posted:

So, I just bought a 2012 Prius. Driving this thing feels kind of like steering a whale. Also bummed that I got it for $1k under invoice and find the same model advertised the next day for $600 less.

Anyways!

Now I have a 2010 Honda Accord EX for sale. What's the best way to sell a car? My craigslist ad only seems to be getting spammers, even though I took the blue book private party price ($19,856) and discounted it by $1k.

e: I took it to CarMax and they lowballed me :(
I had better luck with Autotrader, though that was a few years ago. Now it seems to be hard to find a non-dealer car there.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

You might be shocked at what you could fix the AC with with junkyard parts.
AC in Texas is one of the few things I'd probably fix before selling partciularly as I'll bet you can do it for under a grand. A no AC car will be virtually unsellable. Of course if you fix the AC, you might not need a new car.

Check out a last gen G35, maybe an IS300, but those are a bit pricy for what they are still.
Depending on what you define as nice or sporty, you have more options.
2002-2005 Subaru WRX (sport but iffy interior) 2005+ NAs as well if you don't need the power. I'd recommend a newer NA if you don't need the power.
2005+ Subaru Legacy 2.5i (NA motor -- they drive well, but they certainly aren't quick. The interior is fine though. The GT [turbo] is at the high end of the price range, but I wouldn't buy an automatic one and they can be temperamental.)
Mazda 3 (good to drive. Not a lot of power Don't know how you feel about the interior)
Mazda 6 (See Mazda 3, but bigger)

I'd avoid VW like the plague, though reliability and cheap service excepted, a MKV Jetta would be right up your alley.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:56 on May 27, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Leperflesh posted:

I think you want a BMW.

They're more reliable than a VW. They're relatively common on the used market (because well-off people like to trade up to a brand new BMW pretty regularly). They have very nice interiors, are widely available with leather, and are sporty and fun to drive (most/all of them are rear wheel drive "drivers" cars). You can get one in auto. They look nice on the outside. They're roomier than typical for Japanese makes.

I think a 3-series. For your budget you should be able to get a nice example with well under 100k on the clock. It will cost a little more to maintain than a domestic, but as long as you avoid the high-end models, it will probably be similar to your Infiniti.
I don't think an e46 (-2006) 3-series is a bad idea, though there are some cooling system issues.
I think a last gen (2003-2006) G35 gives you much better bang for the buck in this price range though because of some pretty serious deprecation.

A comedy option would be the 2003-2004 Infinti M45. I've never heard anything bad about them, and they're pretty big inside, but the styling is very love-hate. The cooled seats would be awesome in Texas. It is a V8 though, with the expected fuel economy. You can pick one up for well under $10,000.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

No, because it is cheap.
I know they are rare, that is why they are the comedy option.
I wouldn't even make a w8 a comedy option, that thing if a loving nightmare.

Don't early 2000s v6 acuras and hondas have massive automatic transmission issues?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Throatwarbler posted:

The ones with the big problems are the 5 speed autos on the TL, CL and Odyssey, and some 99-00 4 speeds on the Odyssey and Accord. The RL had a longitudinal 4 speed from 1996 all the way to 2004, same as the old Legend and Vigor. I've read of some isolated cases of problems with the trans mounts on the early 96-99 years but they redesigned it from 2000 onwards. It was a minor issue, on mostly high mileage vehicles, they never had the huge 3rd-gear-clutchpack-disintegrating-replace-entire-transmission-every-15k problem that the 5 speeds had.
Ah, ok, I've not followed exact which ones had issues.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

A corolla does not fit any of his other conditions. They don't have a very nice interior (honestly, worst in class excluding maybe the caliber) and drive like a wet noodle.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

skipdogg posted:

I think your mixing up my responses to 2 different posters.

You are correct

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I like mp5s and the manual transmissions are fine.
Check for rust though if you're in a place where that can be an issue.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

pants on head posted:

There was a certain amount of rust. The major question is about the mileage. If I get a car with 200k+ miles, am I just signing up to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars to keep it running almost immediately?

I forgot to mention that the reason they're selling it is that the wife needs a car but can't drive stick.

Not really, cars are much better than they used to be. That said, you're probably near the end of the useful life. I'd have them knock some money off.
Also, get a compression check.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Throatwarbler posted:

Read a few pages back what I wrote about the Forester. TL:DR don't buy it. The fuel economy is much worse than your Focus and it's an outdated vehicle far behind its competition. Instead consider (in order) Chevy Equinox, Subaru Outback or Hyundai Tuscon instead. If fuel economy is important there is the Ford Escape Hybrid, which gets 32mpg combined, but is otherwise not a great vehicle.

EDIT: What's with this obsession with the Forester? Is it like a Japanese VW? Chicks just love it because it ahs a cute name?

Foresters tend to be cheaper than the Outback buy quite a bit. Also, the new Forster looks better than the new outback (and more SUV like, even with the OB redesign and that appeals to some). Also, the current gen forester started earlier, which means current generation models are even cheaper.

That said, it isn't a bad vehicle, and the 4 speed sucks, but the outback isn't really doing much better MPG wise with the CVT as it is larger. The 6-speed in the outback is actually likely going to be more of a problem than the 5-speed in the forester. Unlike the spec-b, the new legacy/outback does not use the (very good) STI gearbox. Instead they bodged together a 6-speed out of the old 5-speed, presumably by using thiner gears. Admittedly, you won't break either on an NA 2.5L subaru, more of a concern with the turbos.

As for the AWD, I actually like the all time nature of the center VLSD subarus (as well as torsen audis, which drive basically the same). Much more predictable (as you're used to how the car drives in AWD, rather than just having it come un when you're already in the poo poo), and I think better in the snow and ice.

Also, the paint still sucks on both cars (I'd actually venture to guess the Forester has better paint. SVA uses poo poo paint.), but the rust proofing is actually very good on both the new (not the last gen) Forster and outback (last gen outback/legacy also had good rust proofing) based on what I'd seen in Minnesota, which uses salt like it is going out of style.

That said, the forester needs the 2.0 and CVT stat.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jun 3, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Interesting factoid as we're talking about warranties.
Subaru's B2B (3/36k) covers brake pads, clutches, and windshield wipers even if they wear our for reason other than defect.4
So get your launches done in the first 36,000!

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Boiled Water posted:

The BMW will start every morning, the Regal will probably not.
What the hell kind of ignorant rear end statement is that?
BMW has had quite a few more reliability issues in recent history than Buick. It isn't 1992 anymore.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

2005+ Subaru Legacy Wagon (non-turbo) or Outback
The Legacy will be cheaper, but they are more rare. Other than the lift, they are virtually identical (Slightly different gearing and the Outback gets a rear VLSD).
2005+ does not have the issues of the previous 2.5s
You can get a 2005 legacy for $10k (or less if you can find one). OB will cost a touch more. I'd prefer a 2006 as they improved the side airbags and the car got a bit safer and at least for NA legacies that will be well in the price range.
Honestly, I think a legacy/OB fits what you want better than a forester.

Pre-2005 outbacks with the flat-6 are pretty trouble free as well.

2005+ Legacies/Outbacks have better rust proofing than anything else Subaru made around then. Mine spent 5 years in a salt state (NE and MN) and looks pretty good underneath.
The fuel economy is not great, but you'll live.
ESC is not generally available on the manuals, but has some availability on the autos I think. Both are subject to some lift-off oversteer which isn't bad unless you're not expecting it.
The safety equipment in the 2006+ is fine. The 2005 is fine, but the 2006 is better. The pre-2005s were fine for the era, but certainly we've seen some advancement since then.

nm fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jun 16, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Eglamore posted:

Are those models likely to have bad head gaskets?

2005+ is not known to have HG issues.
The flat-6s have no HG issue from any year.

The worst HG issues are from the DOHC 2.5s. Pre-2005 SOHC have some issues, but not as bad as DOHC.
All turbos have decent headgaskets (though the 2.5 turbos have their own issues). All non-2.5s are fine.
Any car that has a headgasket out and been done in recent history (particularly if they used the STI gasket) should have no HG issues. Ask for paperwork though.

The Mazda 5 is fine, though the 3rd row is not for adults. Basically exactly the same as a Mazda 3 except for the body on top.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Pudgygiant posted:

With an income of roughly 200k, half of it tax free, how bad of an idea is a '13 Viper? Because I'm leaning towards it being both the best and worst idea ever.

Would be the best idea ever except that the Z06 or ZR1 might be better for the money.

Remember that the last Viper was the most crashed vehicle within the first year of ownership. They are very temperamental to drive (this is different than bad to drive, they're just easy to crash). I expect the new one to be somewhat easier to drive, but don't be over confident. I strongly recommend a high performance driving school if you've never driven anything like that regularly.

Also, I suspect you could ask this in AI as well.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Pudgygiant posted:

Early previews say it has a minimalist STM, which is a huge driveability step up from previous models.

How's the maintenance on a Vette / Viper? The engine is for the most part an off-the-shelf truck engine right? I'll be back in the 99% within the next couple years so most high-end imports are out of the question due to parts costing an arm and a leg.

I think Corvettes are pretty good, though I'm not sure about the ZR1, as the addition of boost might create issues not found in the NA motors (but I have no idea).
I think the Vipers were fine, but perhaps more problematic than the corvette, but they're lower volume so harder to tell.

The nice thing about the corvette is that it has a 5/yr 100,000mi powertrain warranty, so it is covered for a good long time.

Eglamore posted:

Thanks for the help so far. It seems like if I'm looking for a good deal (on an Outback or Mazda5) I'm going to have to find one outside of the immediate area. Any tips for finding a good mechanic in the area to check out a car if I find a good one or am I stuck with Yelp? Or should I ask this in the stupid questions thread?
If the car isn't at a name brand dealer, you can use the dealer. Otherwise, for Subaru, the enthusiast sites can help. I strongly recommend a leakdown test, even if it costs a lot.
I bought my car in Utah, even though I lived in MN at the time. Well worth it, but my car was rare. That said, finding an NA Outback in the Chicago area shouldn't be hard.

nm fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jun 17, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Eglamore posted:

You've mentioned that rust isn't as bad in the 05+ models, right?
I'd venture to say it is as good or better than average for the years in question, so pretty much not a problem.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Esmerelda posted:

Apparently I need a car. Or, at least, it will make my life easier.

Proposed Budget: $10,000 (can go up to $14,000 but would prefer not to.)
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Compact. 2 or 4 door works, a hatchback would be nice but not mandatory.

Essentially I need a vehicle to get me to/from my various after-work activities as the bus doesn't cut it. I live around 3.5 miles from work and don't plan on driving there every day (biking on some.) I live in a city, most of my driving will be in a city and I get to parallel park on hills so size does matter.

I suppose I'm looking for good gas mileage, reliability and size enough to fit a bike rack somewhere on it. Oh, and not crying when it sees a hill is mandatory. I do sort of like the look of the Mazda 2 or the Volkswagen GTI, but, again, a hatchback isn't a necessity.

Manual or automatic doesn't matter. I'd like to have a trunk big enough to put my soccer gear into. I don't need stuff like cruise control or a sun roof or heated seats.

I'm the USA, Seattle specifically, so we don't have too much extreme weather to deal with. And as much as I'd like to say a car would make me go skiing again it probably wouldn't so 4wd and capable of conquering mountains not required.

I haven't owned a car in 8 years and really don't have much of an idea as to what is or isn't preferable as far as engine types and options. I've been doing some research but some help narrowing it down (like is a 2005 or newer Ford Focus actually an okay car?) would be helpful.

Mazda 3. Maybe a Fit.
The 3 hatch got the "big" (all 2.3 liters!) engine only, so it will have more grunt but less mileage. The new 3 with the skyactive would have been perfect, but that is out of your price range.

The fit is a great car, but retains its value to an extraordinary degree, so the value for money isn't there as much.

I don't like the versa.

Any subaru in your range will have the old engines and transmissions which will kill gas mileage. If you can deal with the MPG, any subaru made on or after 2005 is a fairly safe bet.

The Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe is a good car, if boring as hell. Note that the vibe is exactly the same car with a different badge, so take advantage of the lower resale (though I think most people know this my now so resale is more equal now).

The mini is probably too small. They also have some reliability niggles.

The VW Golf/Rabbit is really nice but compared the the Japanese or Ford, the reliability isn't quite there. A non-turbo or a diesel model is the way to go though if you go this route. 2006+ only. The previous MKIV golf is a nightmare.

The dodge caliber is terrible, stay away.

$10,000 will get you into a 2004-2005 Prius (second generation). They are pretty flawless cars from a reliability standpoint, but they are not for everyone. They are shockingly cavernous inside.

The later focuses are fine: 2005+ Focus (or any model with the 2.3L PZEV motor). We didn't get a hatch after 2007 until the latest generation which will be out of your price range.

New Hyundais and Kias are fine or better (they are actually quite excellent now). The used market is more hit and miss, and I don't know enough about them to tell you want is good or bad. All current models should be very good though.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Anybody have an opinion on the Doge Neon? Specifically I'm looking at a 2005 with ~100k miles for $4000. Edmunds didn't list any major reliability problems for that model but other review sites seem to give it a bad ranking in reliability, and I'm not sure which I should trust. I'm basically just looking for a driving appliance for the next few years and don't care too much about it being fun to drive or looking cool.

Jesus, why?
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=382

Hateful little cars, excepting the fast ones (SRT, ACR).

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

2013 Subaru Impreza 2.0 (30 MPG combined) if you want the best for snow.

Prius if you want MPG. This might be a bit tight though, do a test fitting.

A fit will do just fine up a hill. Ice traction is about grip, not HP. Otherwise as modded Cobra making 800hp would be the perfect snow car.

Also, check out the Mazda 3 skyactiv, a golf diesel, and the koreans.

Oh and get winter tires. They're not about being able to "get up a hill" they're about having proper traction when braking and turning. All it takes is one patch of ice on 94 to make you happy you have them (speaking from experience)
They're not even expensive. You see it as having to buy a second set of tires, but remember that you're only driving on one set at a time, so they'll last twice as long. Seriously, try them, it is a revelation, you will no longer hate the snow.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

wide stance posted:

Thanks!

Unfortunatly the Impreza is all but sold out in the Twin Cities. Might check out a Mazda3 hatchback today.

Anyone have any tips on car buying without a car?

It would be worth traveling if you thought it was the right car.

As for tips: Rent a car. It is cheaper than you think, and will put off the pressure to buy now, right now, which you will have when you "need" a car.
Or you could move to downtown where you don't need a car.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ulysses S. Grant posted:

Proposed Budget: 10k (15k at the most)
New or Used: Used
Body Style: 4-door sedan/hatch
How will you be using the car?: I drive from Orange County to Los Angeles 4-5 days/week for work and school.
What aspects are most important to you?
Must be reliable enough to survive a few years worth of driving in Los Angeles. MPG is the second-most important. I'm 6'4", so the car can't be super-tiny.

I was looking perhaps at an 04-06 Prius, as those seem to be plentiful in my area around my price range, but I know precisely gently caress-all about cars. I also drive regularly up to the High Desert, Santa Barbara, and the various Indian casinos in east San Diego county, so it has to have at least enough juice to get up the hills.
A prius will easily get up the Cajon pass.

The fit will be more of the issue. Nothing a test fit can't solve. I'm 6'4" and hate being in a prius, but other people about my height drive em and love them.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ulysses S. Grant posted:

Awesome! I'm gonna have to start checking them out. Most of the Prii (?) in my area seem to have over 100k miles - is there anything I should be looking for as far as maintenance that should have been done at that point?
I don't think so.
My mom had over 100k on hers when it got totaled and it was fine.
The batteries are covered to like 150k mi or something and will last well beyond that.
For 10-15k though, you should be able to drop below 100k mi. I'd recommend something as new as possible as they did some bug fixes, though my mom's was a 2004 and never had an issue.

I would strongly recommend a PPO at a toyota dealer though.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Kefit posted:

I'm going to take a look at a car this weekend at a small dealership that claims to have put the vehicle through a "pre purchase safety/mechanical inspection completed at Goodyear auto service center." How much stock should I put in the resulting inspection report? This dealership is located about an hour drive away from where I live, so taking the car to my local mechanic for a pre purchase inspection would be kind of a pain.
Basically none

quote:

In fact, how do these pre purchase inspections usually go down when dealing with a dealership? Do they just give you the car for an afternoon to take to your mechanic? If possible I'd like to take it to the auto shop my brother owns, to support his business if nothing else.

Depends. I bought by car from a subaru dealer about 1000mi away from where I lived (the car was a Subaru and a rare one at that, hence the distance). They gladly drove the car to the shop of my choice.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I wouldn't buy a v6 mustang until the current 300hp motor. The rest were woefully underpower and delivered worst gas mileage. The new one is nearly as fast as older GT mustangs and get 30mpg in automatic form.
That said, the auto v6 is geared terribly, so I'd highly recommend a manual.
Can't go wrong with the new 5.0 Gt either.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mazda 3 hatch.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I suspect what you think a high paying job is and what he does.
Maintenance on a car that retailed that high when new will be a lot different than something in the high 20s, low 30s new. Also, a modern AMG, even without boost, will be a bit more complex to DIY than a Mustang.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Guinness posted:

Paranoid. Almost everything except for the most poverty-spec economy cars come with alloy wheels nowadays.

Yes, and no one wants poverty spec alloys.
The wheels getting stolen are higher end ones.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Throatwarbler posted:

Mazda RX-8 R3.You said you don't want extras and options, but the R3 has grippy leather lined Recaros, Bilstein shocks, stiffened front crossmember and forged BBS wheels which sound like the kind of thing you might like and will help with resale down the road.
I'm an RX-8 leghumper, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who cares about fuel economy.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Necc0 posted:

On the new mustang:


Can you elaborate on 'geared terribly'? I just experienced the DC traffic that i'll be dealing with regularly in person and while I'm still looking at getting standard, auto is looking more appealing.
Very high and the auto upshifts early. Drive one and see how it feels.
It is geared for fuel economy, which makes it less fun than the manual.

Disgruntled Bovine posted:

I'll be buying a car sometime in the next year or so. I just got a large raise at work and my 16 year old Subaru Legacy is getting a bit long in the tooth.

I've managed to narrow my choice down to two cars, but I am open to similar recommendations.

Base stipulations: It must be a midsize sedan with ~60k miles or less, $15-20k, AWD, fairly fast, good handling and preferably a manual transmission.

The safe option: A Subaru Legacy GT from 2008 or 2009. Preferably in the 17-20k range and preferably a spec B if I can get it. Obviously I'd go a little higher for the spec B, and expect the price to be a bit lower for a limited. This is the safe option due to Subaru reliability and it being a slightly newer car. This is also the slightly more expensive option up front but probably cheaper in the long run.

The riskier option: A Volvo S60R from 2006 or 2007. Again the preferred price range is about the same but should get me a slightly lower mileage car for a given price than the Spec B. On the plus side the S60R is a faster, better handling (I think?) significantly more comfortable car with a very nice sound system and the nicest seats I've ever sat in. The downside is that it doesn't have the Subaru's reliability, parts will be more expensive, and it gets slightly worse gas mileage. That said from what I've seen it's probably the best value on the used market when it comes to a fast comfortable midsize sedan with AWD and pretty good reliability.

So please share your opinions. You're welcome to propose other cars, though I'm fairly certain it's going to be one of these two. I'd love any comparisons from people who have driven both as I have yet to get around to test driving the Legacy GT. Either way it will be at least 6 months before I'm ready to buy but I like to do my research.
I have a 2005 Legacy GT and a friend of mine has an S60R. The S60R is a worse handler than the Spec-B, for the record. The spec-b is as fast or possibly faster than the S60R (s60R does about 14 seconds 1/4. The 5-speed spec B ran 13.8, but the 6 isn't geared as low and is quite a bit heavier)

I'm not sure I'd class either of these as reliable cars.
These came out of my motor

Note however, that my car is tracked, but the subaru pistons are loving poo poo. That said, it ran at least 30k mi like that (and ran while driving into the shop)m it just burned oil.
The good news is that the 6-speed in the spec-B is bulletproof and amazing, so you avoid the 5 speed issues:

(Your 6 speed will never do this.)

The S60R. What doesn't break? My friend just got his shocks replaced. OEM they are $1000 per corner and cannot be replaced with standard dampers because they are some fancy electronic thing. Cheaper on the internet but not much.
Every single fluid leaks and it isn't worth it to fix.
The radiator is leaking.
Shortly after a TB belt change, oil is leaking on the TB.
Burns oil from somewhere.
Angle gear leaks and if you don't check it, it fails.
Diff fails on track days like clockwork
Etc. . . .

The Spec-B has one huge issue that can be fixed when it breaks (forged pistons). The Volvo will nickel and dime you and probably cost the same, maybe a bit more.

I love my car, but it is hard to recommend for reliability. It is extremely fun, and they are much more tossable and light than you'd imagine.
That said, you should say gently caress it, buy a 2005 Legacy GT wagon with a stick, put forged pistons, reinforced gears, and a good suspension instead. Sedans suck.

(Also, Mazdaspeed 6s and S4s have a similar list of issues. Fast mid-sized AWD sedan? You're pretty much screwed.)

nm fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 14, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Does she care how it drives?
Because if she wants reliability, fuel economy, gadgets galore, in-dash nav, ipod integration, and a backup camera, and doesn't care about how it drives:
Prius. No seriously, this is exactly what the prius does. It has more drat gadgets in the loaded models than anything short of an s-class.

Better driving:
Mazda 3 Skyactiv
2013 Impreza non-turbo

Don't rule out Hyundai and Kia. They are amazing, basically all of them, for the price. The fuel economy is perhaps a bit more optimized for the EPA tests than others (somewhat lower real word numbers), but the cars are drat good.

Oh and don't recommend a Toureg unless you want to be reminded every month that you recommended the car that is back in the shop, again.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

MMD3 posted:

the funny thing is we just borrowed her sister's Kia Sorento for a week and we were both really pleasantly surprised by how nice the car felt for being a Kia. Reliability-wise are they really on the up? She really doesn't care that much about brand status so if they're building reliable/fuel-efficient cars then she would definitely consider it.
Yeah, Kia and Hyundai are just fine on that front now

quote:

how about the Mazda CX-5? It looks like the grand touring edition would have all of the gadgets she'd want and be in budget w/ decent fuel economy... any reports of how it handles and how reliable it is?
New model with basically a new drivetrain, so your guess is as good as mine.
It has the same drive train as a Mazda 3 skyactiv. Surprising light at 3200lbs, so it might drive ok despite only having ~160hp.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Throatwarbler posted:

Well the 535xi does have a 10 year 120k warranty on the fuel pump now. How bad could it be?
Ewww, xdrive.
My major concern with 3.0turbo BMWs is the comically long oil change intervals. I know they have magic voodoo sensors, but almost 20k mi on a group III oil on a turbo motor known for heat issues scares me.
I can't help but think that because BMW provides free oil changes that hasn't been adjusted to lower costs. Once out of powertrain, it doesn't matter.
That said, if you can find one that has been maintained more often imany BMW guys do), it might be a decent choice.
Any idea if the cooling systems are better than BMWs of the past?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Disgruntled Bovine posted:

Thanks for the information. Are either of your cars modded? I did know about the angle gear issue with the S60R as well as an issue with the master cylinder on the manuals. Also it makes sense that the shocks are expensive because of the 4C suspension. I'm surprised to hear that it handles worse than the Spec-B and is slower however. Your friend's S60R is a manual I assume? I don't plan to track the car whatever I get so maybe it will hold up a bit better.
His is auto and stock, however, the slower is not just based on my experience but on reviews. His is not tracked.

My car is quite modded, but again, in comparing the two, I'm taking stock for stock.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Modern Day Hercules posted:

I don't really get why speed is even an issue if you're not going to track the car. How often would you ever get to take it over 80 miles an hour? Let alone like 100 which I think any modern car can do pretty easily. Seems like you're paying more for nothing if you prioritize speed on a car you're just going to commute in or whatever.

It's about acceleration, not speed. Also, you can have fun in a car off the track, say on a curvy mountain road.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

2006-2009 Subaru Outback.

Your choice as to the NA 2.5 or the 3.0 H6. I think the 2.5 will be fine, particularly in stick form, but the 3.0 will provide more oomph.
I'm not sure I'm recommending the turbo (2.5XT) as they can be a little troublesome, but the NA 2.5 or H6 are basically flawless.
Avoid the 2005 if you can. The 2006+ has much improved side airbags and is safer. )(The 2006+ is among the safest cars sold). I'd probably look for one with ESP if you're not fairly familiar with snow driving and/or plan to use all seasons.

You could also sneak into a 2010 2.5 NA Outback, but you won't be able to do the bigger engine. It is more fuel efficient (CVT only) and larger inside.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Tab8715 posted:

How do you guys feel about...

1 - Pre-owned Certified Cars, I'm looking at 2009+ Audi A4s, A3s or maybe even a A4 Avant - it's the Wagon of the A4. Or hell maybe even a BMW 3 Series.
They're a warranty. The certification should not replace a PPI.
On Germans they can be a decent idea, as they can get pricey when things break. Note that they will probably cost more than a normal used car, even accounting for repairs.
BMW PPI warranty is considered pretty good. I'm not sure Audi's is as good.

quote:

2 - Electric Cars - Personally, I find the Lexus CT200h to be quite appealing. Same goes for the Honda Insight.
There are hybrids, not electric cars.
Honda's hybrid systems are not very good. Toyotas (incl lexus) are the gold standard.
Consider the Volt too. It is shockingly good if you have access to a plug. Ignore the right wing hyperbole on them, they are proving to be reliable and the technology is really cool. Great incentives on them right now. If you don't drive more than 40mi a day, you will basically never buy gas.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Casu Marzu posted:

Proposed Budget: Under $1000, cheaper the better
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Truck or small old 4x4
How will you be using the car?: Just a second vehicle to go camping in, or toss my kayak and bike in and drive down to my usual portage point, approx 100 miles round trip
What aspects are most important to you?Reliability would be nice, but since it is a second vehicle, not as important as being easy to work on. I've never really tooled around in a car before, so something easy to work on would be a plus.

I ran across a 89 Ford Ranger 5sp with the 2.0 I4, 2WD only, as well as a 92 Toyota (hilux I think) 5speed. Both of these are under $800, which would be great. Is there anything I should be looking out for? I'm guessing clutch, frame rust, and timing belt/chain?

Also, I live in WI.
The Toyota is probably all rust, especially if you can get it for that price.
A good condition Toyota Pickup (They were not Hiluxes in the US), is pretty solid, but $800 in Wisconsin tells me it won't be.
Ford rangers are pretty simple.
In both cases, iron oxide would be my primary concern.

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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Have you considered a road trip south? Strikes me that you might do better with something older, but in better condition, in a rust free state.

Buying cars from the 80s that we're garage queens in the northern states is tetanus inducing.

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