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I'll be buying a car sometime in the next year or so. I just got a large raise at work and my 16 year old Subaru Legacy is getting a bit long in the tooth. I've managed to narrow my choice down to two cars, but I am open to similar recommendations. Base stipulations: It must be a midsize sedan with ~60k miles or less, $15-20k, AWD, fairly fast, good handling and preferably a manual transmission. The safe option: A Subaru Legacy GT from 2008 or 2009. Preferably in the 17-20k range and preferably a spec B if I can get it. Obviously I'd go a little higher for the spec B, and expect the price to be a bit lower for a limited. This is the safe option due to Subaru reliability and it being a slightly newer car. This is also the slightly more expensive option up front but probably cheaper in the long run. The riskier option: A Volvo S60R from 2006 or 2007. Again the preferred price range is about the same but should get me a slightly lower mileage car for a given price than the Spec B. On the plus side the S60R is a faster, better handling (I think?) significantly more comfortable car with a very nice sound system and the nicest seats I've ever sat in. The downside is that it doesn't have the Subaru's reliability, parts will be more expensive, and it gets slightly worse gas mileage. That said from what I've seen it's probably the best value on the used market when it comes to a fast comfortable midsize sedan with AWD and pretty good reliability. So please share your opinions. You're welcome to propose other cars, though I'm fairly certain it's going to be one of these two. I'd love any comparisons from people who have driven both as I have yet to get around to test driving the Legacy GT. Either way it will be at least 6 months before I'm ready to buy but I like to do my research. Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 22:26
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 05:12 |
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nm posted:I have a 2005 Legacy GT and a friend of mine has an S60R... *snip* Thanks for the information. Are either of your cars modded? I did know about the angle gear issue with the S60R as well as an issue with the master cylinder on the manuals. Also it makes sense that the shocks are expensive because of the 4C suspension. I'm surprised to hear that it handles worse than the Spec-B and is slower however. Your friend's S60R is a manual I assume? I don't plan to track the car whatever I get so maybe it will hold up a bit better.
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Jul 15, 2012 00:12
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Do I really need to explain why I would want a car that accelerates well and handles well if I don't plan to track it? I am fully aware it's not a logical desire, but who ever said desires have to be logical? I have no doubt that in many people's eyes buying anything beyond a car that can drive highway speeds safely is a waste of money but I'd like something more than that. This is an advice thread so I appreciate that you share your opinion regarding this, but that doesn't mean that I will agree with you. I know what I want in a car, I'm just looking for help in making the wisest decision I can with the stipulations I made in my original post. I also have seen the episode where James May contended that you can have the most fun driving a car at its limits, and perhaps I want to try that with this car once I've had it for a while and gotten used to having a car with some performance. However the car I have driven since I got my license is one which easily reaches its limit and has no more to give when accelerating into the highway and has difficulty maintaining 80 mph when that highway takes much of an uphill route. I want something that will not strain to do these things, and which has more to give if I want it. If I can afford it what's wrong with that? Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 05:06
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So I'm in the market to replace my ATS 3.6 and I've very much enjoyed this car in the 5 years I've had it. It has fantastic handling, it's been reliable, comfortable, and the styling has really grown on me. My only complaint is I wish it had more power. Given that, I'm primarily interested in a couple of its big brothers, the ATS V and the CTS V-Sport but I'm having a hard time choosing between them. Here's my pros and cons list, let me know what you think. Feel free to recommend alternatives, but I'm not all that inclined to go with the Germans for reason of reliability concerns. I may have gotten lucky but my ATS has been almost flawless and my last car, a Volvo S60R was a huge money pit. ATS-V Pros - Smaller - Lighter (barely) - Slightly better handling? - Slightly faster - Manual transmission available - Looks awesome - Familiar and comfortable - Rare Cons - More expensive for similar year/mileage - More conspicuous - No cooled seats - Higher strung = less reliable? - Will probably get more speeding tickets - Back seats for gnomes CTS V-Sport Pros - Cheaper - Probably more comfortable - Sleeper - Cooled seats - More reliable? - Still looks cool - Functional back seats - Larger trunk Cons - Larger - Heavier (barely) - Slightly worse handling? - Slightly slower I'm somewhat leaning towards the CTS V-sport largely based on price, since I can get a newer, lower mileage one. I know for a lot of AI types the manual transmission would decide this in a heartbeat but I've never actually owned a manual. I've driven a couple and liked it, but I'm almost 40 now and I'm not sure I want to learn how to drive one properly after this long. I've never tracked a car before and I'd certainly be tempted with the ATS-V, but that will only be feasible without a sunroof since my head brushes the headliner on my current ATS. Feel free to explain why both of these are terrible and I should get an M3.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:29
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Overall I think I'll most likely go with the CTS V-Sport for price reasons as at the moment it's about 5-8k cheaper for same year/mileage. That said, I'm not buying yet as the used car market is still jacked up so perhaps the ATS-V will come down enough to be more manageable. I want to say when I was looking at them a year ago (and wasn't ready to buy) I was seeing them around 35k while now you're lucky to find one for 40k. My heart definitely prefers the ATS-V but my head is pushing me towards the V-sport.
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Aug 27, 2021 01:03
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Godzilla07 posted:The next step up from that ATS would be something with a turbocharged 6-cylinder engine, e.g. BMW 340i, Audi S4/S5, Infiniti Q50, Genesis G70 3.3TT. If you don't want something German, the Genesis will likely be your best bet. If you want more rear seat and cargo capacity than these cars offer, the Kia Stinger is worth considering as well. From what I've read none of the sedans you recommended handle as well as the ATS-V or CTS V-sport. The mustang isn't a bad option but I'm really looking for a sedan. The Camaro is what the CTS V-sport should have been, alpha platform with an LS, but again I have specific reasons for preferring a sedan and I couldn't drive a Camaro, I like to be able to see out of my car. Nitrox posted:I would recommend you learn to drive manual proficiently before committing to a high-powered performance car. First, there is a danger of you getting very familiar with barriers and telephone poles. And a lesser danger of you just not liking it, and scrambling to sell while taking a loss. It's funny you say that, because I see a lot of recommendations for learning to drive manual on a powerful car since it's harder to stall it. The ATS-V also has auto rev-matching so it's kind of easy mode. I know I like driving manual, I've done it a fair bit on my parents' cars, but I just don't know that I would want to live with it every day. Add to that the fact that even if I was good at driving manual (which I'm not) the manual is slower than the auto so I'm somewhat inclined to skip it. Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 01:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you'd be having too much fun to notice, and i doubt you're a good enough driver that the transmission would be your lap time limiting factor Valid point, and I'm absolutely not. Motronic posted:Most proper sports cars have like zero torque down low, with expensive labor and clutches. Most old pickups have mounds of torque down low with a sloppy easy clutch and are very forgiving to learn on. I learned to "drive stick" (work a cultch) on a tractor. With a two part clutch at that....PTO then drive wheels. I'm mostly speaking in comparison to the low power 4 cylinder manuals I've driven before. That said, the last time I drove one I don't think I stalled it, but it's been at least 5 years. I'm glad I won't be re-learning on a tractor though, that sounds like a great way to get eaten by the PTO.
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Aug 27, 2021 03:12
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knox_harrington posted:You should probably at least try a M340i, realistically the Cadillac isn't actually going to handle better than an M-ish BMW and it also has the advantage of looking nice. Motor trend and car and driver both think the ATS-V handles better than the same generation M3. As for style, I won't deny I like BMWs of that generation, but an M3 is more expensive and as I stated at the beginning I don't want a German car for cost of ownership reasons. Godzilla07 is correct that the only major problems with the ATS-V and CTS V-Sport are interior related, but I've lived with an ATS for 5 years and it doesn't bother me.
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Aug 27, 2021 13:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:HAPTIC FEEDBACK BABY Yeah it's bad. Honestly what annoys me the most about it is keeping it from looking terrible. I keep plastic cleaner and microfiber in my center console but it's still a PITA to keep it clean. I cross shopped this against an Audi S4 originally and the interior on that was obviously worlds better. It was also faster, more comfortable and better looking. I went with the ATS because it handles better, rides better, and was slightly cheaper. Concerns about German costs of ownership were a significant factor as well. I think I made the right decision. I've had only one non-maintenance failure on this car which was, surprise surprise, the CUE system touch screen. It was covered under CPO warranty. Otherwise no significant issues and the maintenance costs have been fairly reasonable even at the dealership.
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Aug 27, 2021 17:19
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 05:12 |
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I'm glad I posted in here. I kind of had my mind made up before I did and was planning to buy a CTS V-Sport despite the ATS-V being the car I really wanted. Now I think I'm going to hold off for several months until pricing comes down a bit (average pricing for Cadillac sedans is up $6k right now) then pick up an ATS-V. Thanks goons!
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Aug 27, 2021 22:35
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