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Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Realjones posted:

I browsed through some of the thread and didn't see anything regarding this:

What are people's thoughts on taking over someone's lease?
Thanks

I think the main benefit of going this route is the incentive that is usually offered. It isnt uncommon for people to offer several thousand dollars. You'll definitely want to hang on for some sort of incentivized deal, especially with cars in that range/class.

The most important thing is to be sure you can afford the car. If you are stretching and need to rely on the incentive to get there, you shouldnt be looking at those cars.

I would also examine the residual value of the car very closely and compare it to the milage you expect to be on the car at end of lease. What are cars like that going for now? For example, I am just about to sign for an Infiniti G37, and the residual in 3 years will be about $20,000 (this is Canada). The car will have less than 45,000km on it, and will be worth at least 27-29k at that point, so it's sort of a no brainer to buy it out, even if just to sell and pull the extra cash out.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Sep 8, 2010

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Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Realjones posted:

If the car was worth $20K he should have just sold it himself and paid off the leasing company.

You can't sell a car you don't own. When you lease, the car belongs to the financing company/manufacturer/whoever. Not you.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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asmallrabbit posted:

Well I am a couple years out of school making around 60k.

Monthly income is $3200 after taxes, and my average monthly expenses for the last year have been a little under $1600.

You made the right decision not to buy it because you can't afford that car, straight up. You don't make anywhere near enough money to be considering a $50k car. I make triple what you make and only lately got myself into something like that. Cars like this are not cheap to run - everything is more expensive. If you go for 60 or 72 month financing you're going to have a car payment forever. You won't spend extra on downpayments because you're going to be tying up 33% of your disposable income in payments minimum anyhow. Smart move exercising some patience.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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sanchez posted:

It's hard to argue against buying new at that price level to me given the amount of time you'll keep the car. You get the excellent warranty and the knowledge that the last owner didn't run the car 20k between oil changes.

One of the other big benefits is dealer financing for new cars can often mean the loan is practically (if not completely) free. Infiniti just gave me 2.9% on a 4 year purchase for a new G37. The best my bank would give me was 4.5%, and I am a good customer. Even with the pay cash incentives dealers offer (which can sometimes offset the higher interest rate the bank charges), it still made sense to go with Infiniti financing.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Oct 22, 2010

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Leperflesh posted:

Also Saltin brings up a good point; I was speaking entirely on the basis of paying cash. If you need financing, you can finance a used car, but you'll probably get a better deal from a credit union. Whereas on a new car, assuming your credit is good, dealers often can offer amazing financing deals. Just be aware that a lot of the time, their amazing finance deal is instead of a rebate. So it's not actually amazing at all! If you are forgoing a rebate for a nice finance deal, you are effectively paying cash up front instead of interest down the line. Better do the math and find out if you're actually saving anything at all on that deal.

You've got to do the math for sure, and I tried to point that out but didnt do such a good job I guess. Cash purchase credits are just that - you don't get them if you finance through the dealer. Don't confuse them with rebates though.. that's a different incentive you should be able to get regardless of how you pay. Anyway, with cash purchase credits you've got to look at the dealers financing rate, compare it to the bank's rate against the lower purchase price and then crunch over the term of the loan. One will be cheaper across the amortization period. Choose that one.

For me it was to take the 2.9% from the dealer, but the loan amount is significantly more than most cars people are talking about here, even after I put 20% down cash, so even a couple of points of interest make a big difference across the term!

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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dennyk posted:

There is absolutely no reason to pay off a 0% loan early.

There is if your money could be earning a return. There is also the intangible of cash flow, which matters quite a bit when it comes to lifestyle.

Leperflesh posted:

The reason is because the car will depreciate as soon as you buy it, and the longer the term of the loan, the longer you spend "underwater" on the car.

If you cannot afford to put 20% cash down on a new car you intend to finance, you can't afford it and shouldn't buy it. You never want to be upside-down on a car, even as soon as you drive it off the lot.

The longest amortization period you should accept on financing is exactly equal to the length of the warranty the manufacturer is giving you. You never want to be in a position where you owe on the car and are exposed to repair costs too.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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skipdogg posted:

People love to lose their poo poo over gas prices. My car has a 15 gallon tank. The difference between 3.00 gas and 3.50 gas is $7.50 a tank. I spend more money than that on combo # 3 when I go to lunch.

The best is people who will drive 10 miles to save 10 cents a gallon, and there are so many people at that station they wait in line for 20 minutes idiling when they get there.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Throatwarbler posted:

How did people have kids before SUVs?

Station wagon yo.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Dealers don't handle financing. MB financial.

Congrats on the amortization period. You should have bought a Kia :P

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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stubblyhead posted:

2012 Chevy Cruze. By special order I mean choosing the options and colors and all instead of just picking one off the lot.

There is no such thing as a special order Chevy Cruze dude. Don't let the sales person fool you into thinking otherwise. The dealer has access to every combination through thier network.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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CornHolio posted:

I can really only see that working efficiently if you're in a bigger city with more dealerships to chose from. Within a 50-mile radius of where I am, for instance, I know of only one or two Honda/Nissan/Toyota/VW/Volvo dealerships, and maybe 3-4 for each of the American makes (which I would think would be enough but it limits your choices).

You're right. I can attest to it working in areas where there are multiple dealers though. I live in a major city and there are probably 5 dealerships for the type of car I bought within 50km. I worked them all against each other to the point of the fellow I ultimately bought from getting more than a little upset with me. I guess it must be frustraiting for them, but I honestly don't care. I got the car well under invoice. One thing you don't do is tell them which dealership is offering which price. They'll know you're being genuine because the prices you approach them with will always be "workable" and ultimately right at the absolute lowest the car can be let go for.

I don't know how dealerships survive in these situations. I suppose not everyone is interested in seeing how far they can take it.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Leasing a car for one year seems like a pretty bad idea. You're going to "own" the depreciation involved with driving the car off the lot, which is substantial. To that end, I would suspect the payments are going to be huge, even for a 20k car - the depreciation won't be spread across a longer leasing period, if that makes sense. To be honest I don't even know if dealers offer 1 year leases? I suppose they do because they can bend over dummies, but I haven't ever seen one on offer.

I've never leased because I like to own, but I can tell you one thing, which I would consider the golden rule of leasing, which is "your goal is to drive the car off the lot with the minimum amount of cash outlayed. Do NOT put anything more than the minimum downpayment required down.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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chiyosdad posted:


Well, yes, all lease payments cover the depreciation and some for profit/financing, no matter the length of the lease.


You weren't kidding when you said you didn't understand leases.

You don't want to pay the depreciation hit and then only use the car for a year. On a $20k car consider you've got about $4k in drive it off the lot depreciation and then you've got to pay for whatever the year's use is going to cost. If you had the lease for 3 years that 4k would be spread along that timeframe. I suspect 1 year leases don't exist widely because there is no one dumb enough to sign them (or not enough dummies)

My comment about down payments on a lease are geared toward risk. If you make a large downpayment to lower your monthly payments, and get in a an accident which results in the car being written off, you lose that downpayment. The insurance company will pay the owner (auto-maker) what the car is worth and you're hosed out of that downpayment. A "security deposit" is a little different and often is recoverable. If you're going to lease you need to understand this paragraph inside out.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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DarkestLite posted:

I make about $2,000 a month at my current job. I figure without any kind of deal, the brand new Jeep I was looking at was about 25k.

Others have mentioned this, but just so you know - you can't afford that car. Is that 2K a month after taxes? Even if it is, let's figure you put 5K down (smart, now you're not upside down). You have a ~23k loan (sales tax, PDI, Frieght, etc) . You want that paid off before the warranty runs out right? So let's say in 4 years you want to be free. If you can't pay the car off soooner than that you definitely cannot afford it. So let's assume $500/month in payments.

That's 25% of your income. Now you figure in gas, insurance, maintenance - you're well into something like 35%-40% of your income.

In short, this is a dumb idea. But enjoy that yoke around your neck dude.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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jonathan posted:

The Infiniti m45, how does the engine deal with 87 octane fuel ? Is the ECU able to retard the ignition timing quickly enough to avoid pinging ? The remote areas I travel to will mean I will occasionally have to fill up with regular grade fuel.

Perhaps if I drive without mashing the go pedal I can avoid engine damage. My old racecar had high compression and a lot of boost, but I drove it with 94 octane on occasion without destroying the gaskets.

The m45's engine is 10:1 compression ratio which is on the high side of standard compression. It wants higher octane fuel for best performance. That said, all the modern Inifiti's are able to detect ping and retard to avoid it. You can definitely run on 87.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Seafea posted:

Good point. It was night, so it'd probably be more noticable in the day. They seem to have been struck by like quarter sized pieces of hail briefly. Just dunno if a discount like that is a good deal or not since I've never bought a car before.

You have to examine this discount properly. 33k down to 25k due to hail damage might be a terrible proposition if you know you can talk the dealer down to 28k for a mint one. Find another Acura dealer and go through the motions with them. Find out invoice price, forget about MSRP.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Captain Narwhal posted:

Going to try this again now that I have a bit better of an idea of what I'm looking for

Proposed Budget: As close to $30k as possible (some flexibility here)
New or Used: Used/CPO
Body Style: Luxury compact sedan or coupe 2+2
How will you be using the car?: mainly as a daily driver, shortish 20-30 minute highway commute
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?
I don't need all the gizmos (dont need navigation, rear-view camera, etc) but Bluetooth or some sort of iPhone connectivity would be great
What aspects are most important to you? Looks, comfort, reliability, value, should have a little pep in its step (I think any of the cars I'm considering qualify)
Cars I'm considering now, thoughts, etc: I'm looking at Audi A5 and A4, BMW 328i and 335i, Cadillac CTS (would prefer the coupe but don't see any available in my price range).

I've really fallen in love with the look of the A5 and am planning to test drive both the 2.0T and 3.2L models. The problem I'm having is getting an A5 within budget. In the Bay Area, the cheapest CPO A5 I've seen is listed at just under 37k. I haven't gotten into any discussions with them about this yet, but, any idea how much a dealership would be willing to negotiate below sticker? Would it be cheaper if I financed through them or paid in cash? In a perfect world, I'd find a 2008/9 A5 2.0T base model or close to it with less than 40k miles for $30k. Please tell me if this is a pipe dream.

Anyway, after the A5, I'm unsure what I'd go with. The A4 is nice but the 328i just seems like the most reasonable and logical choice of all the cars I've considered. I took a 2010 328i for a test drive and it was reasonably quick an felt very solid but the overall look is a bit meh. My problem with the 328i/335i is, and I'm not usually bothered by this sort of thing, but, I just can't get over how many people in this area drive 1, 3, and 5-series BMWs. Because their look and styling is so consistent across all of those models it'd be like having the same car as half of the population.

Moving away from the germans, I like cadillac styling in general so I'm starting to look into the CTS. I don't love the look of the CTS sedan like I used to but Ive heard good things so I am going to try to get around to taking a test drive. On the other hand, I do love the CTS coupe but they are more rare and too new to be within my price range from what I can tell. I've also thought vaguely about a new Nissan Altima or Acura TL.

Any insight into reliability, repair/maintenance costs for these would be very helpful. Also if you have suggestions of other cars to look at, let me know. I haven't looked at Mercedes at all so far (I only mention Mercedes because it seems like the obvious omission) because they generally don't really do much for me but I'm open to any suggestions.

Can I make some comments and then a suggestion?

The base A5 is a nice looking car, they are sex . That said, it will be expensive to own in the long run (check reliability ratings online). It is not a fast or quick car, especially with the smaller engine. You need to go to the S5 for that, which is way out of your budget. It's just a good looking "meh" to drive car with a nice interior.

With the cars you are looking at, I was suprised not to see the Infiniti G37 on the list (you do mention the Altima, which means you're not opposed to a Japanese car). The G37 is quick (0-60 in ~5 seconds), super reliable (again, check the ratings), and generally provides the best overall performance/reliability value out of the 328, A5 and CTS, in my opinion. It will outperform all of them. The 335 is different, it has a small performance edge, but costs loads more than the G. Go drive the G sedan or coupe, they perform identically. Put your foot down, push it around some corners, you'll see what I mean. It is a better car than any of the ones you listed, again, a personal opinion, but you should at least drive it to see if you don't think so too.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 18, 2012

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Guinness posted:

As for the G35/G37, I also agree that it should be considered in the comparison since it is in a similar market segment and price range. Great car all around, and definitely one of the most well-endowed under the hood. I personally think the 3-series (or at least the 335i, maybe not the 328i) is a better car, though, all things considered.

The 335 is a better car for sure but it is seriously way more expensive (new anyhow) than a G when equipped equally, and the performance isn't seriously much better.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Throatwarbler posted:

The engine on the G is buzzy and strikes most people as unrefined and the interior is pretty low rent. The performance is there undoubtedly but I think it sort of betrays its roots(the Nissan Skyline) as being more of a Japanese market Camaro than a Japanese BMW.

In which case, the performance is also undoubtably there in a Camaro or a Mustang too. Surely Shelby GT500s are getting into the $30k range? Those will get you to the next stoplight quite rapidly.

The 3.7 is a big improvement over the 3.5 in that regard but if you are talking about the 3.7 i dont know what to say. The interior is certainly not as good as Audi or BMW but it is still decent. Again it costs significantly less. Anyhow I dont want to come off as a G fanboy because i have owned several of the cars we dscussed and they all have good qualities (a4, 335 and g37). I just like the performance to value metric of the G best. I think it has the best body too, but thats a personal thing.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Captain Narwhal posted:

Thanks for the responses guys. I have had the G35/37 in mind but in the background like the Altima. I'll definitely take a closer look. In any case, this gets to the crux of where I'm at in this. Even comparing the A5 to the 335, how much is that added acceleration, etc worth in luxury/style sacrifices on the other side of the equation? I guess I'll have to test drive them

The 335 is a better car in every way, aside from the styling. There aren't many cars on the road that drive as well as a 335, I suspect if you drive both you'll forget about the A5 assuming you like performance.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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sean10mm posted:

So far the main candidates seem to be, in rough order of guessed at suitability:

BMW 335i xDrive
Infiniti G37x
Mercedes-Benz C350 4Motion

The Audi A5 and TTS look like they're too slow and the S5 and TTRS break the budget. Acura and Lexus don't offer anything like what I'm looking for. I've heard the Cadillac CTS is a good car and they do offer AWD but the looks really put me off.

Does that pretty much do it? Are there any pros or cons that aren't obvious from the spec sheets before I start test driving? Are there any major differences in the real-world usefulness of the different manufacturers' AWD systems?

The 335 is the top performer and the most expensive. It is the least reliable, but within the warranty it'll be fine. I think BMW's xDrive is pretty mediocre and lots of people don't like to see it on the car at resale time. The G37 Sedan is more reliable, slightly less quick and significantly cheaper. It's a heavier Z with AWD and four proper seats. The Altessa AWD it uses is solid, mostly the G just drives like a RWD car, unless you are launching or in bad weather. I have only test driven the C350 (owned a 335 and a G) and the Merc feels like a really nice car for an older guy, but didnt really wow me the way the 335 and G do with regard to performance. The CTS is not in the same ballpark performance wise at all (unless you get the crazy one, V or whatever). It also has polarizing looks, as you note.

If you can afford an S5, that car is the winner of the three in my books. The A5 is junk (relatively), the S5 is loving awesome. You can't get a new S5 for 50k where I live though.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 23, 2012

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:



I've fallen in love with the 2000-2002 Audi s4.I love everything about it. The twin turbos, the classy/sleeper look, and the mod-ability of it. Maybe its because my parents had one when i was young. This is the car I want!

They seem to run around 6-10k depending on the condition and mods. All over 100k miles.


You can't afford to run that car. It will require thousands in maintenance each year. God help you if the turbo goes. Don't buy it.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Even if you leave the engine out of it, the control arms, tie rods, ABS system, hell most of the electrical system period, are all weak spots on the B5.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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There are loads of good reasons to finance with the dealer, IF that means OEM financing and not the actual dealer. The OEM's financing wing (they all have one) is going to give you a much better APR than any bank/credit union most of the time. This is where you get 0% deals. You should take those.

Also, you want to put the absolute minimum down on any lease. You'll lose your downpayment if you write the car off because the dealer gets the insurance payout, not you. Sometimes there is something called a security deposit which you can make multiples of to reduce your monthly payment, and this is refundable, but a standard lease downpayment is not.

Consider putting 10k down on a lease and then writing the car off 2 months later. Kiss it goodbye.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

You cannot put 10k down on a lease and then write it off two months later (in fact, you should never put cash down on a lease). This is because you're paying for the depreciation on the car, not buying money to purchase the vehicle outright. You can do this with a loan, provided there aren't any early repayment penalties.

I don't think you understood what I was saying, so let me clarify

I first spoke about financing a loan, it was in response to where one might be best able to finance a loan for a car (OEM financing versus a credit union, for example).

In my seperate paragraph, which forms a seperate thought, I addressed the poster who though he might put a $10,000 downpayment on a lease. You can certainly do this (to lower the monthly), but it is not a good idea. I said it was not a good idea because, in a situation where you put a large downpayment on a lease if you write off the car you will lose that downpayment (unless it is a security deposit, which only some manufancturers/dealers offer). No one is talking about writing off a loan/etc. This is why I said "write off the car". I mean get in an accident and total it.

Hope that helps.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Not My Leg posted:

Proposed Budget: $10,000-$13,000 could go up to $15,000 if I really liked something.
New or Used: Used
Body Style: 4 door sedan
How will you be using the car?: Mostly short drives around seattle, no kids, occasionally need to drive for work.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Not really, although something that I would not be embarrassed to drive a client in would be nice.
What aspects are most important to you? Fun to drive, reliable, reasonable cost of ownership (in that order).

For a reliable car in the $10,000 range that isn't super boring I've had a number of people recommend the Lexus IS 300 (anything after 2001), although some people in this thread seem down on it. I'm not sure what other cars to really look at. I like the BMW 3 Series, but I have heard they have high maintenance costs. I don't know much about the Audi A4.

Obviously, in my price range those would all be early to mid 2000s model years. I really have no idea what to look at in my price range more recent. Of course, people have recommended I just go with a Corolla, but that just strikes me as really boring. My wife already has our practical car (Pontiac Vibe), I want something more interesting than that.

EDIT: Also, how much should I be looking to negotiate someone down in terms of price. If something's listed at $12,495 should I be opening at $10,000 - should I be making an offer as the base price, or should I be making an offer to walk off the lot (including fees and taxes)? Does the fact that I will pay the full amount in cash up front give me more bargaining power?

You should not touch any Audi made in the early 2000's. In fact, all of those cars (BMW, Audi) that are that old will be quite expensive to maintain, but a B5 platform A4 is a special hell. The IS 300 is an ok car (no idea on reliability), but it has long been replaced by both the IS 250 and IS 350. I don't see too many IS300's on the road anymore.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Captain Narwhal posted:

How merciless are we talking about here? I found a CPO 2009 G37s with <20k miles with sticker price (marked down from 34k) at 32k flat that I've been looking at. Am I walking in this weekend and saying "I want to pay $25k cash out the door today"? Is this crazy? Any further help on this would be great. Just trying to avoid looking when I go in.

I bought a G37 new in 2010. These are Canadian prices, so don't freak out Americans and say I overpaid. Cars are loving expensive here.

Sticker for the G37x sedan with premium package was $45,900. I talked them down to $39,000, which was me basically bending them over. I had four dealerships working against one another. It was fantastic. The cars are in relative demand, but they have loads of them. The KBB price minus 1-1.5k seems fair. You won't get it for 25k, it's got low mileage and is an S.

CPO doesnt matter much, in my opinion, on a G37 with low milage like that. I have a similar amount on my car and it is just like brand new and has not had a single problem. Just check the engine filters and the oil, you can do that yourself. These cars go forever. That said, if something does go out of warranty it is going to cost more to fix than the usual car.

Tell them you are driving the BMW 335, IS 350 and an A4 or something and thought you should try the Infiniti as well as an afterthought. Go to as many dealers as you can in your area. Don't be picky about colour, of course only negotiate the price of the car (not monthly, etc) and don't talk about how you intend to pay until the negotiating is done. You should walk away with a good deal. You will love the car, btw.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Sep 27, 2012

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Oxford Comma posted:

What did your bank say when you asked?
Likely that they arent in the business of handing out money for vehicles made in the 70's.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Fatal posted:

From what I can find the Quattros draw quite a price premium where I live (cars.com search has one available within a 500 mile radius of Seattle) and is on the edge of my budget anyways. Reading up on the Haldex system kinda stunts my interest in Quattro entirely, seems like it only really applies AWD in bad conditions (rare, I live in the land of rain and sometimes slush). While I currently have an A4 B5 Avant Quattro I'm finding it kinda funny that the A3 is pretty much the younger brother of my car, size wise at least. A4 are so much bigger now it seems.

The thing that sucks about the Haldex system is that it is normally FWD and adapts to 4wd as required. The best design, especially for a performance oriented car is RWD which adapts to AWD as required (launch, conditions, etc).

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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A few years of winters on salt roads isnt going to be a dealbreaker on a modern car. They don't rust out like poo poo from the 80's did. Especially the past few years, which have been pretty dry winters. All things being equal of course you would want a non-salt state car, but it's not the end of the world either.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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The Infiniti FX50 checks all the boxes and isn't ugly (it's subjective but I think it's pretty sexy). It doesn't have as much room as the QX obviously, but it's roomy enough and drives so much better than any vehicle that size has any right to. The price is right too. Drive one and see.

The only caveat on Infiniti is that they are renaming their entire line starting with the 2014 models, so the FX will become a QX of some kind (name only), if that sort of thing matters. Even the G is becoming a "Q50/Q60".

Saltin fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jan 1, 2013

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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100% Dundee posted:

Oh yeah, I definitely took notice when you originally posted it. It was added to my daily car searchings shortly thereafter since I have always loved the look and sound of the G35. Unfortunately I have not driven one yet, but I imagine they are not much different(maybe a bit cushier/softer) than similar model year 350z's with the same engine right? I have driven a few of those and they were very nice. There are a few nice G35's that have piqued my interest locally. They all seem to be towards the higher end of my budget but that's okay, I just need to get out and drive one.

You said you owned one correct? Are the general wear and tear items on them pretty costly(tires, rotors, etc)? Most of the ones I have been looking at have large(18"+) wheels and some have the Brembos. I'm not sure I want to be dealing with $1500 sets of tires and $400 rotors if that's the case.

A G is more expensive to own than an average car, obviously, but they are very reliable in general, so you'll have less emergency poo poo and more basic maintenance. Brakes and good tires get expensive but are essential in a car that performs as well as the G. Oil, filters, etc are easily done yourself. A G35 is going to be older, so you can expect things like starter/alternator/sensors, etc at some point.

The 350Z is more nimble and generally stiffer than the coupe, as you'd expect. The coupe is no slouch though.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Leperflesh posted:

I'm going to just hope that JosephStalinVEVO took the five year dealer financing because of the low APR but actually plans to pay it off in three years or so.

Since we're being financially prudent, it makes no sense to hurry and pay off a loan that is on a note @ 1.9% APR. It's free money

Do you expect a $100 item today to be selling for $104.90 in 2018? Not loving likely.

You can argue about the utility of increasing your cash flow by having no payments, but at the end of the day the money you're adding to rush your loan is better used invested and making you more than 1.9%, which is pretty easy to do. Also, if you really need that extra utility, you "cannot afford the car"

When I bought my car in 2010 I put about 15k cash down to ensure I never owed more than it was worth, and then financed the rest with the dealer for 1.9% (it's a luxury car so no 0%). I could have paid cash for the car full stop, but what a terrible way to "invest" that cash - at 1.9% essentially. The cash is generating a better return that that in my investments.

I agree in general that a 5 year note on a used car is silly, but the loan is essentially free, so whatever. It makes little sense to rush paying it down when the APR is that close to zero.

Joseph the only truly dumb thing you are doing is accelerating your payments. Invest the difference. Never make a lump sum to work it down.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Feb 23, 2013

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Actually a guaranteed 2% isn't bad at all right now. I guess borrowing isn't AS bad as if you have the money and want to take a loan anyway to invest with. But really, borrowing money just to invest is still not the best idea in the world. And 99.99% of the people who go out and borrow money for a car aren't doing it because they think they can do better in the stock market, they're doing it because they can't afford a $35,000 car.

I understand what you're saying but we're discussing a case where a fellow bought a BMW 335d and clearly stated he could afford it. Let's assume he can. In this case, paying off the loan quickly makes little sense, straight up. He said he was doing this too - I'm just hoping he might change his mind.

Let's look at an example. Cost of car is 35k and it's at 1.9% across 5 years. You'll pay $612 a month for 60 months, $1760 of that will be interest. That's the cost of the loan.

In the second example we up the payments by 33%, $814, which gets you paid ok in 44 months as opposed to 60. Interest cost is $1261.

By paying the loan off 16 months sooner you've saved $500 in interest charges but you had to tie up $200 x 44 months to do it, which is $8800.

Now assume you invested that $200 a month in something that was returning ~5%, which isnt a stretch (bank preferred's pay this like clockwork), and you've got over 10K in your bank account at the end of 60 months (and debt free) as opposed to being debt free at month 44 with nothing. Of course, in both examples, you still have the car!

People are conditioned to be adverse to debt, which is a safe operating principal in general, but there are different types of debt. Credit Card debt is universally bad, for example. But a car loan at 1.9%, assuming you can afford the car, is a dream come true and you should be in no hurry to correct the benefits the loaner is extending to you.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 23, 2013

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Leperflesh posted:

The PT Cruiser is an incredibly bad car. In AI it is often used an example of the kind of car only a total moron would buy. Do not let your girlfriend buy a PT Cruiser.

All you need to know about the PT Cruiser is that Michael Scott from The Office drives one.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

So far in the AWD camp, I am considering the G37 and IS250. I know there are some 3 series with AWD too, but I don't know poo poo about them. Any other interesting AWD cars I'm missing out on?

Loads of AWD cars you are missing which I am sure others will mention, but I thought I would let you know that the IS250 and the G37 are not similar cars. You'd need to get into an IS350 to get the performance of the G37, which blows the doors off the 250. The IS 250 is a sporty looking luxury car, the G is actually a sporty car with a bit of added luxury.

Also, you won't get similar performance from a 3 series BMW until you get to the 335, which is, depending on how kitted out, either more, or much more expensive then the G.

I drive a G37x in Toronto through the winter and I can tell you it is a solid option on all seasons and unstoppable with snow tires. The bonus is that it performs like few cars at that price point, it is a joy to drive, handles well, is quick as gently caress and super reliable.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Spite posted:

Looking to get a car, preferably something in the mid luxury range with good mileage.

Proposed Budget: Somewhere around 50k
New or Used: either
Body Style: 4, prefer sedan
How will you be using the car?: to/from work, trips around CA (SF to LA occasionally)
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Yup
What aspects are most important to you? Good mileage for the class (30 would be nice), good handling.

You are really limiting yourself in the entry luxury 4 door sedan space with the 30mpg requirement. Off the top of my head..

BMW 335d
Mercedes E350 Blue Tec (More than 50k)
BMW 528i

Personally I think these are all "meh" versions of a proper sports sedan. For 50k I would be looking at the BMW 335i or G37 (probably waiting for the new model Q50 this fall). Neither of them is going to wow you when it comes to gas, but they will wow you when it comes to actually driving. That's a personal thing though. "Go Fast" might not matter a single bit to you, in which case the 528i is a nice ride.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
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Spite posted:

Is there any reason to buy a hybrid at this point? I feel like they exist more so the ads can say "We have a hybrid version!"

I'm going to test a 335i and the Infiniti Q looks really slick. How is the Jaguar XF?

There will be an Infiniti Q hybrid, for what it's worth. The Infiniti M Hybrid was generally well reviewed, and since it has a full gas engine it was still quick. I expect the Q Hybrid to be similar.

The 335i and G37/Q are direct competitors. The 335 is generally acknowledged to be a bit better, but a lot more expensive.

The only thing I know about Jaguar is regarding my Dad's Sovereign, which is constantly having something fixed on it. I'm sure the newer ones are better but I suspect they can't touch the reliability of an Infiniti, for example.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Spite posted:

My previous car was an Acura TSX so I'm looking to move up a bit. I know everyone thinks Lexus is boring, but the the ES hybrid looks to have good tech and isn't super expensive. I'd love the M35h but I dunno if I can justify the price since the options I'd want bring the price up to 60k or so. I'm trying to stay under $800 a month payments.

I'm going to have to go out and test a bunch and see what I like to drive, I think.

If you love the M35h you might wait for the Q hybrid this late summer/early fall. It'll be in and around your budget. There is nothing wrong with the ES. Lexus has better interiors than Infiniti, in general, decent reliability and great service, but you won't get the same performance.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 01:04 on May 7, 2013

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Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Residency Evil posted:

My sister's surprisingly reasonable about it and does not want to buy a used 3-series/A4/C-class. She's currently got her eye on an Altima Coupe. My parents currently have a 2007 Nissan Altima which has been reliable if not a bit dull to drive. Anyone have any objections to the Altima Coupe or alternatives?

The only thing you need to know about the Altima coupe that is different from the Altima sedan is that it has 2 doors and less trunk space.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 17, 2013

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