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moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Hey I am considering buying a different car since I really don't like my 2001 Passat and want something more reliable and less expensive to repair. I'm just starting my car search now. A couple of questions to start off with:

- I noticed that there were some hybrids that seemed comparably priced to the other models I was looking at. I know cw when they first came out was that they were overpriced, not really that much better mpg-wise, and cost more just to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. What're your thoughts on hybrid in general, or specific models?

- I know nobody is buying Toyota right now because of the brake thing. I was hoping that there might be some good deals to come out of this. Is it worth looking into or should I stay far far away from any recalled models?

- My first two cars were Civics and I loved them, so I'm of course considering getting a newer model and just calling it a day. Are there other cars which are similar that I should be considering? (price under $20k would be optimal, but I'm willing to pay more if I get a car that will last super long and be super reliable).

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moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


skipdogg posted:

You buying used or new?
Really depends on what kind of deals I could get. I don't mind buying a new car but I've heard that it makes more sense to buy a few years out, both because there isn't that new car premium and also most of the major issues that can come up are known by then. Thanks for the information on Toyotas and hybrids in general. I saw some 2007 Priuses marked at around $15k and it piqued my interest since that's cheaper than I thought they would be.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Grumpwagon posted:

What size of car are you looking for? I've done a ton of research, but I'm mostly looking at smaller hatchbacks (Fit, Mazda2, Fiesta, etc).
Mostly 4-dr sedans, although I wouldn't be opposed to a 2dr. I hate big big cars.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


skipdogg posted:

Toyota is offering 0% for 60 on a few models, which isn't normal. They're usually like Honda and don't have to have big incentives to move vehicles. You can get 0 for 60 on Camry, Corolla, Tundra, and Yaris' right now.
Oh heck, this 0 for 60 thing is only until June 1st I guess? That sounds pretty rad, maybe I will do some car shopping this weekend and try out different ones. I have never gone out to a dealership to test drive things before so this will be a new experience!

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Ok, after taking some things into consideration, I've decided to put off my car purchase until the end of summer. I just realized that I'll be driving to Burning Man in August and I kind of don't want to bring a nice new car that I just bought there, you know? That said, I'm going to do a bunch of research between now and then and hopefully have a much better idea of what I want when it comes time to buy. Thanks for all of the arguing over hybrids and whatnot.

I do have one issue with that chart - it seems to be comparing the MSRP of brand new cars. Buying a few years out, the difference seems to be much smaller between hybrids and non-hybrids. I don't want a big car, so it's nice to see the difference between smaller cars though - the savings in gas cost per year is still a good way to look at the differences even if I decide to buy used.

The Civic hybrid seems to have comparable mpg to the Prius, is there any reason not to consider those as well?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


I mentioned to my boss that I was looking to buy a car in the near future, and he told me that I should check out a nearby Manheim car auction - apparently it's dealer only, but you can pay someone a couple hundred dollars to bid for you, and that's how he got his last car. This is the site for the auction. I've never heard of anything like this, and googling seems not to turn up too much info besides the fact that they're dealer-only wholesale auctions. Has anyone ever dealt with something like this before?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Faceless Clock posted:

So what are you going to spend the money you saved by doing this on? Is it going to all go into a savings account? If not, then why is this such a good decision?
Is this argument seriously "You're going to spend the money on other things anyway so it might as well be on a car payment"?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Faceless Clock posted:

If you put more mileage on a car you buy you have to pay for it through additional depreciation. That is why leases have the mileage limits in the first place.
Isn't this a losing proposition to begin with? I mean, car dealers ostensibly are calculating expected depreciation, then increasing that a bit in order to not lose money. Like insurance - you are always going to have negative expectation SIMPLY BECAUSE they need to be making money off of you. To decrease that variance, you're paying a premium. Isn't it the same with a lease?

Also we're not talking about artard here, you're making a general argument and I'm replying to that general argument. I'm specifically interested in your argument against Leperflesh because I will soon be in a similar position and if it's really better to lease a new car than buy one I'd like to know why. Throatwarbler's post also relies on two ideas that I don't think are necessarily correct:
- paying the premium to reduce risk is a financially wise option (something that I disagree with for many types of insurance for the same reason as stated above)
- that returning your leased car after a few years and buying a used one on the market is equivalent to keeping a car that you bought new. In the latter case, there is much less risk in terms of knowing what has been done to the car.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


BlackRider posted:

You aren't listening. He can afford it AND putting extra money into a savings account is POINTLESS!
I agree that particular argument is a pretty bad one but I don't want this to devolve into shitposting. Well-reasoned rebuttals are always appreciated and are more helpful to bystanders so let's keep it to that please.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Throatwarbler posted:

The comparison is between buying a new car and leasing a new car because that's the apples to apples comparison. Comparing leasing a new car to buying an old car is apples to oranges.
All he is doing is bringing up a separate point that had gotten lost in the discussion of leasing vs buying new. Some people in this thread might be interested in oranges, after all. Tone down the hostility.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Throatwarbler posted:

The bit you are missing is that your lease payments are composed of a financing charge (which we will ignore here) and a monthly payment for the depreciation. If your identical car has a higher buyout value at the end, it must necessarily mean that you paid less in depreciation. So comparing your situation to that other sucker, he bought the identical car outright and now needs to unload it for less than your buyout value, meaning that he has paid *more* in depreciation than you have. You've already WON.
Thanks for explaining this thoroughly. I've never considered leasing a car before, so these are a lot of new ideas that I'm still trying to absorb. Do you think there is there any situation where it would be better to buy a new car than to lease?

I mean, you say in your previous post that "If you are willing to drive a 5 year old car 5 years from now, why aren't you willing to drive a 5 year old car RIGHT NOW?" In my case, I was thinking that it would be nice to buy a new car and keep it forever because I don't mind driving a used car. The main concern I have with driving a used car is not knowing its entire history. I'd love to be able to get a car and maintain it properly without having to worry about any hidden issues and just drive it into the ground (or give it to one of my future kids). At least for me, this is the main point of contention between buying a new car and buying one that's a few years old, not being willing to drive an old car or not.

Faceless Clock's reply to Leperflesh seemed to indicate that buying a new car, then running it into the ground would be less expensive than leasing it forever (until it's paid off).

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


I did this when buying our last used car from a private seller, it's necessary because the bank holds the title to the car (in our case - and maybe in most cases - it was collateral on the loan that he had). I think we wrote the check to him and then he just wrote another check to the bank, but we still had to go to the bank with him to get the car title. He came with another person who could drive him back so we just took the car after the bank gave us the title, I guess you could do that if you're worried about getting the car right away.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


destructo posted:

Better prepare for the eventuality that your windows will fall into the doors.
This has happened to me twice already. Can't wait to sell this loving car <:mad:>

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


It's also just really annoying to deal with. I grew up in a Honda, I don't expect random poo poo to just start breaking for no reason. The radio dial melted, the ignition coil fiasco (which, even under recall, I wasn't fully reimbursed for), and don't even get me started on the inane drink holders :argh: I'm switching back to a Honda as soon as I get back from Burning Man.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Nooooooooooooo that makes me very sad. I'm sure every car has problems, I just never had any issues with my Civics other than regular maintenance and it seems like every time I turn around my Passat has poo poo itself. Anecdotes, sure, but I'll never recommend this car to anyone.

I'm going to research the new (2009/2010) Civics before buying anything, but if you have any cautionary tales please feel free to regale me with them.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


I would likely be buying a new Civic (manual), but I'll check out the Korean makes and see what is up. Thanks for the awesome advice!

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Ok, I decided on a Kia Forte, it drove nicely and they have a $1k rebate + 0% APR for 3 years. I'm considering getting the extended basic warranty from the original 5yr/60,000 miles to 10yr/100,000 miles based on a post someone made in here which now I can't find. All the googling I've done makes me wary of buying any sort of extended warranty though. What do you guys think?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


I don't know, I'm going back in tomorrow since I didn't really have time today to talk to the guy. I will definitely ask him that!

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Jealous Cow posted:

I was looking at the Forte online last night. Can you give some more detailed impressions? Which trim did you look at?
Drove both the LX automatic sedan and the manual (same engine as the EX). I'm not a picky driver but the car had everything I wanted for a really rock bottom price. Nice AC and stereo, the iPod thing being built in as well as a USB port for music (so you don't have to carry your iPod in the car all the time) is super nice. On the highway I couldn't even feel the speed, and the only thing I didn't like was in the automatic the acceleration in lower gears was kind of weak sauce. I'm not an aggressive driver though so it doesn't matter much to me. The only other bad thing is that AC is considered part of a $1500 "option" package. You'd probably want the EX since that comes with power windows, locks, cruise control for like $500 extra after you take into account the AC.

Bonus stuff: I get free Sirius for a few months to decide if I want it. The Bluetooth thing was crazy cool, I've never used it but my boss offered to buy me one a while ago when I didn't have the car interface so I think I'll take him up on the offer now.

I read reviews that say the suspension kind of sucks but I really didn't find it that bad. Either our roads are better or I'm just used to driving cars with lovely suspensions, but I didn't find it to be a problem.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Ok, so I guess the extended warranty is from Fidelity, which they said was the only company that offers Kia warranties. It would be $1750 to extend the bumper to bumper to ten years from five. I was leaning towards no just because I've heard terrible things about extended warranties in general but I thought I'd double check with you guys, google searches just turn up a bunch of conflicting stupid anecdotes.

Also the guy synced up my phone with the Kia so I can just call anybody by saying "Call [anybody]" in my phone list and it calls them. I am beyond enthralled with this dark magic.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


If you can, try and find a dealer with a promotional rate going on. I was able to get a 5 year 0% APR from Kia, and I'm pretty sure there are good deals just about all the time, from different dealers of course.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Oh no, I misunderstood, sorry about that!

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Proposed Budget: up to $6000, possibly more if there's great deals within an extra couple of thousand. Will be purchasing from a dealership to get financing.
New or Used: Used
Body Style: 4 door preferable, hatchback preferable
How will you be using the car?: Hauling lots of music equipment around; daily driver
What aspects are most important to you? Reliability and low cost of ownership. I don't want poo poo that's going to break down. A 5-speed would be nice but isn't necessary.

From what I've seen, a good contender is a mid-2000s Hyundai Elantra GT. Should I be looking at any other cars that are similar?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


skipdogg posted:

Assuming this is for you BF right? Strongly suggest looking at a Pontiac Vibe.
That's right. Looking at Vibes and Matrixes right now but the mileage on anything in my price range is 100-150k. How high would mileage have to be to be a dealkiller for these? I'm wary of spending $6-7k on something with 100k+ miles but if it's Toyota quality I guess it's okay.

Also, since I'm terrible at this whole car buying thing: Would you say it's better to have a later year or fewer miles? Here are some options I don't have a clue how to compare, for example:
- 03 Vibe with 115k miles for $5500
- 07 Vibe with 137k miles for $6995
- 03 Matrix with 92k miles for $7000
- 05 Matrix with 140k miles for $5500

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


skipdogg posted:

Your budget is going to put you in the 100K mile territory on used cars. The used car market is crazy right now.
Would you suggest looking at any lower-priced new cars that are similar? I might be able to convince him it's better to spend an extra $5k if it means 0 miles vs 100k miles.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Update: thanks for the advice everybody, it made me feel a lot more confident looking through listings. We went in to test drive some of the options, but the newer cars like the Matrix really drove like most new cars - lovely pickup and handling, and they were all $1-3k more expensive. The Elantras on the other hand drive like cars from the 90s, something I dearly miss after trading in my old civic. We ended up looking through craigslist since none of the dealerships had any good deals on Elantras. We're leaning heavily towards an 02 Elantra GT hatchback that has less than 100k miles on it, single-owner for $4700. It drove well and I think that's a reasonable price but will probably end up offering a few hundred less. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the advice and I will let you know if it falls apart within the month :)

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


SlayVus posted:

I'm going to be starting a new job on salary for about 30k/yr. I currently have no vehicle and I want to have a nice one. I have no bills or debt.
I made 50% more than you when I was a high school teacher; have you looked at the cars in a high school teacher parking lot? You're acting like it's totally okay to spend your entire year's salary on a car. Is this your first job ever or something? Trust me, you don't want to be in debt for such a stupidly depreciating item as a luxury vehicle. If you don't have any bills (any? you're living with your parents?) then save up for a year and buy your car then. Ideally take out the money from your bank so you have to physically hand over an armful of hundred dollar bills to see how ridiculous a decision you're making.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Proposed Budget: $10k
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Hatchback preferred
How will you be using the car?: Hauling band equipment, everyday driving, and long-distance road trips
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? No.
What aspects are most important to you? MPG is important. Since we moved to the mountains where it's rainy a lot, AWD and traction control are pretty dang important.

I've been considering the Subaru Forester, it seems to have a lot of what I'm looking for. Are there any alternatives that I should consider that have AWD?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Really, even in the mountains? Why does anyone need AWD, then? I'll just stick with my little Kia forever if that's the case, but it's not fun at all to drive up and down curvy hills right now and I was hoping a more suitable car would make it better =/

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Power, mainly. It's a Kia Forte which is great on highway but total poo poo between 2nd and 3rd gear which unfortunately is most of the driving I'm doing now. We have an old Elantra that handles the curves and hills much better, I was hoping for something nicer to replace my Kia with.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

The Prius is nice because it doesn't have gears. Lots of smaller cars also have CVTs now, which eliminates actual gear changes.

edit: for actual recommendations, I'd suggest the Prius, Mazda3, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. Maybe a slightly used Focus hatchback, although the automatic transmission is weird and unreliable. All of those cars are about as powerful as your Forte, but they may feel better based on gearing and such.
Oh, wow! I had no idea that there were no-gear cars. I've never driven anything other than a manual transmission, so it'll feel weird to switch, but I guess that's the way the winds are blowing. Thanks for the recs, I will check them out.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


First off, thank you to everyone who made me buy a Miata, I love it lots. Now that I have a fun car, I need a family car.

Proposed Budget:
probably <$30k, I prefer cars that are cheap for how long they last, but don't mind spending more if it lasts longer.
New or Used: either
Body Style: 4 door, hatchback preferred
How will you be using the car?: This car is being used to replace 2 cars: a 2010 Kia Forte that carts my family to Safeway and occasionally on 400 mile road trips, as well as a 1999 Elantra that we use to haul drum sets and mulch.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? hell no
What aspects are most important to you? reliability, cost of ownership, prefer manual transmission

It would be nice to have an electric or hybrid, but we do the 400 mile trips quite often and so I'm not sure that would work (how fast do electric cars charge? That's not feasible, right?)

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Cool, that makes it easy. Worth it to buy new in this market?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Idgaf how stupid I look as long as it isn't a PT cruiser.

DildenAnders posted:

Too bad they don't make a manual transmission prius
This is the only thing that makes me sad, I have never owed an automatic car. But whatever, I can always drive the miata.

Edit: oh wtf are all these trims I have to choose from

Double edit: lol never mind, going from my manual lock and window Kia, even the base trim is loving fancy pants compared to what I'm used to

moana fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jun 23, 2021

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Deteriorata posted:

Yeah, unless you absolutely have to have a car right now, wait six months or a year. If the car you've got works, keep driving it for a while.
Just curious, what will change in 6 months? Or is it just "it can't stay this crazy forever?" and they'll probably be cheaper in 6 months?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


So all of the dealers I've talked to are adding a $1k-$2500 "market adjustment" over MSRP so yeah, I guess we'll just wait a while for things to shake out.

Is there an easier way to shop around so I don't have to contact a dozen dealers myself? Like a new car broker that is recommended?

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moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Nitrox posted:

I vaguely remember Kia / Hyundai having a 100,000 mi drivetrain warranty by default.
Kia did for sure, it was a 10 year/100,000 mi drivetrain back when I bought in 2010.

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