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Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013



astral posted:

I'd love to see a pie chart that showed how much of Razer's budget was marketing.

Hard to say, but non R&D SG&A was $1.5B on $6.43B in revenue. I'd guess at least a third of that $1.5B was sales incentives, though. Figure marketing is probably between 8-16% of revenues.

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tildes
Nov 15, 2018


Whatís a good cheap wireless mouse for someone who well literally only use it for basic computer Office work type tasks? Iím not really familiar with mice of the non gaming variety.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



tildes posted:

Whatís a good cheap wireless mouse for someone who well literally only use it for basic computer Office work type tasks? Iím not really familiar with mice of the non gaming variety.

It depends how cheap you want to go, but I've used some $7 chinese mice and while they work fine a lot of them have a sleep mode that requires hitting a button to wake the mouse up, so I generally prefer $20+ logitech wireless mice like the M510 or M705:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NR57BY/
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TG75EG/

They're both $30 right now but I've bought the M510 for $15.99 and the M705 for $24.99 previously. Costs may be inflated due to pandemic home office purchasing.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

My mom loves the M705 I got her, I think it was about $25 or $30, it absolutely feels better in the hand than a $7 mouse, buuut, those $7 mice will probably work ok

tildes
Nov 15, 2018


These look great! How are they for small hands? Canít tell if the 705 is super wide or not. Thank you!

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



tildes posted:

These look great! How are they for small hands? Canít tell if the 705 is super wide or not. Thank you!

It's smaller than a lot of desktop mice but not the smallest. There's a few travel mice like the M310 which are smaller overall but they're more made for portability and lack thumb buttons (plus the scroll wheels aren't as nice). Amazon comments generally think the M705 feels a little smaller than the M510 so it may be worth giving it a shot with the understanding that there's a chance it'll be uncomfortable and you'll have to exchange it. To that end it's probably worth buying from somewhere that has easy returns. It seems to be about 2.8 inches wide in total but that includes the thumb rest area which sticks out a bit. I'd guesstimate it's more like 2.5 inches on top but I don't happen to have one with me to check or do any comparisons.

Skyarb
Sep 20, 2018




I've been using the g600 mouse forever. I also play FPS at a competitive level. THough I am hardly the top of the top I do participate in a lot of tournaments, and I do OK-ish. I recently found out my mouse is poo poo for FPS (I've never really thought of it, just have always played and enjoyed my time). So I am wondering if now I am really handicapping myself. I've read that the G600 uses a laser sensor which people say has implicit tracking issues.

So I guess my question is, are there any good competitive FPS mice that also have a ring finger button and thumb buttons?

Fingat
May 17, 2004

Shhh. My Common Sense is Tingling

Im not aware of any fps mice with a ring finger button. Side thumb buttons are pretty standard.

Audax
Dec 1, 2005
"LOL U GOT OWNED"

Are you talking about mice with a shape like the mionix naos 7000 or dm2 comfy?

Faze rain and I think pronax are the two cs pros I know who used that shape in the past.

tildes
Nov 15, 2018


Rexxed posted:

It's smaller than a lot of desktop mice but not the smallest. There's a few travel mice like the M310 which are smaller overall but they're more made for portability and lack thumb buttons (plus the scroll wheels aren't as nice). Amazon comments generally think the M705 feels a little smaller than the M510 so it may be worth giving it a shot with the understanding that there's a chance it'll be uncomfortable and you'll have to exchange it. To that end it's probably worth buying from somewhere that has easy returns. It seems to be about 2.8 inches wide in total but that includes the thumb rest area which sticks out a bit. I'd guesstimate it's more like 2.5 inches on top but I don't happen to have one with me to check or do any comparisons.

Sounds great, thank you!

Skyarb
Sep 20, 2018




Audax posted:

Are you talking about mice with a shape like the mionix naos 7000 or dm2 comfy?

Faze rain and I think pronax are the two cs pros I know who used that shape in the past.

No I mean a mouse with an actual third main button located under your ring finger. Look up the g600 to see what I mean.

Audax
Dec 1, 2005
"LOL U GOT OWNED"

Skyarb posted:

No I mean a mouse with an actual third main button located under your ring finger. Look up the g600 to see what I mean.

OH wow, I never realized that thing was a button. That's crazy.

Skyarb
Sep 20, 2018




Audax posted:

OH wow, I never realized that thing was a button. That's crazy.

Its actually amazing. I wish more mice did it, its a game changer.

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

tildes posted:

Whatís a good cheap wireless mouse for someone who well literally only use it for basic computer Office work type tasks? Iím not really familiar with mice of the non gaming variety.

Assuming all you need is Bluetooth, the Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse 3600 is extremely solid for a basic mouse. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...032274179151000

Both the Logitech M720 and M705 are superb basic wireless mice for like $30 or so too.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

I use a trackpad almost exclusively with my Mac, but I just got an MX Master 3 for games and occasional use, and this thing is loving comfy. To answer the question in the thread title, yes.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Skyarb posted:

No I mean a mouse with an actual third main button located under your ring finger. Look up the g600 to see what I mean.

See, I would call that a pinky button because my ring finger sits on the right mouse button. Middle finger stays on the wheel, no exceptions - even if I did have to consciously retain myself as a kid when wheels became standard.

I'm assuming the G600 has a pinky button in part because it's a MMO mouse with a desire for an excess of buttons to begin with. Try checking out other MMO mice as well?

eames
May 9, 2009



Skyarb posted:

I've been using the g600 mouse forever. I also play FPS at a competitive level. THough I am hardly the top of the top I do participate in a lot of tournaments, and I do OK-ish. I recently found out my mouse is poo poo for FPS (I've never really thought of it, just have always played and enjoyed my time). So I am wondering if now I am really handicapping myself. I've read that the G600 uses a laser sensor which people say has implicit tracking issues.

So I guess my question is, are there any good competitive FPS mice that also have a ring finger button and thumb buttons?

I don't play a lot of FPS but I have a decent, reasonably up-to-date mouse from a different brand and recently bought a G600 to make use of all the extra buttons.
The tracking characteristics and weight of the G600 really do feel unprecise and unpleasant in anything that requires fast input, on a subconcious level that I can't describe. I would guess it's just sensor technology improving.

I can understand why people swear by this mouse but between the sensor, the weight and the software issues I described a few posts ago, it just feels like a very outdated device.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




isndl posted:

See, I would call that a pinky button because my ring finger sits on the right mouse button. Middle finger stays on the wheel, no exceptions - even if I did have to consciously retain myself as a kid when wheels became standard.

I'm assuming the G600 has a pinky button in part because it's a MMO mouse with a desire for an excess of buttons to begin with. Try checking out other MMO mice as well?

Yeah, the intention-as-designed is that you use it as a modifier for the side-buttons, effectively doubling the amount of side-buttons you use when you're holding it. The software assigns it a special value as opposed to, say, binding it as Ctrl or whatever.

eames posted:

I don't play a lot of FPS but I have a decent, reasonably up-to-date mouse from a different brand and recently bought a G600 to make use of all the extra buttons.
The tracking characteristics and weight of the G600 really do feel unprecise and unpleasant in anything that requires fast input, on a subconcious level that I can't describe. I would guess it's just sensor technology improving.

I can understand why people swear by this mouse but between the sensor, the weight and the software issues I described a few posts ago, it just feels like a very outdated device.

I mean, it is a very outdated device and there's been no refresh because MMOs have sort of been a declining niche in terms of making MMO-specific peripherals. So far that FFXIV partnered up with Hori to develop their own G13/Orbweaver.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

During my active WoW time I used a G700 with modifier keys and that was enough, the amount of buttons on the G600 always seemed like overkill to me.

I was looking at the G604 as a replacement but I don't want to use yet another Logitech software utility and as far as I can tell you can't recharge it while (temporarily) attaching it to a USB cable, like all my other mice. Maybe when the G700 finally disintegrates

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Neurosis posted:

Replaced the dodgy Omron switches in my Kone Pure Ultra with Kailh GM 4.0s. For the most part wasn't too hard, with the only real problem being something that won't affect other people (one of the old switch legs got stuck in the hole on the PCB and I had to find a hotter soldering iron to overwhelm whatever was acting as a heatsink - this turned what should've been a 30 - 45 minute job into a two and a half hour Odyssey at the end of which I was sure the PCB was hosed with how much force and heat I'd had to put on it but it somehow was totally fine). The only thing of note was that the JST connectors were loving jammed in there and I was super worried about breaking them with how hard I had to pull. But it didn't happen.

The Kailh GM 4.0s seem fine. Their click sound is a bit chunkier and lower than the Omron's nice light clicky sound, which isn't quite as good but really isn't a big deal at all. I guess if that would bother you much maybe try the high-quality Japanese Omrons instead.

You probably could've clipped off the post that got stuck, it was on the bad switch anyway.

Upmarket Mango posted:

My MX518's left click doesn't work half of the time. Everything else is functioning so I was wondering if this is something that could be repaired? Failing that, is there new old stock for sale somewhere? It's the best mouse I've ever used and I don't want anything else.

Yup, sounds like a failing switch, and as I recently described, you can definitely replace it. I'd actually consider replacing the mouse though, with one of the newer models mentioned, while also trying to replace the bad switch, because that lets you practice on a superfluous mouse in preparation for having to do it on a newer, more expensive one that you definitely want to keep. That way, the worst-case scenario is that you screw up a mouse that you didn't need anyway, and best-case is that you have a restored mouse as a backup.

Xik
Mar 10, 2011



Dinosaur Gum

Xik posted:

I ordered this for an absurd amount of money so I hope I can get used to it and it helps



I know there are like two newer models of Evoluent but I literally can't find any my country

It's been almost a couple of weeks and I like it. Suprising how little time it took to for the forearm/wrist pain to improve, sort of feels like vertical should have just be the default mouse position from the start and horizontal mouse was a engineering and usability blunder everyone is still paying for.

I had to use the software to reassign button actions though because the default is just too much change to adjust to in one go. I'm still getting used to text highlighting with vertical, pairing it with a ring finger secondary click was too much.

Skyarb posted:

No I mean a mouse with an actual third main button located under your ring finger. Look up the g600 to see what I mean.

I couldn't adjust to ring finger button. I disabled it because I don't seem to have the muscle control on that finger, it just sort of does what it wants sometimes and is confusing.

This is how it's setup by default:


This is what I ended up with:

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Right now on Best Buy's website when you buy the Razer Huntsman TE Keyboard (wired TKL, RGB keyboard) you get Razers new Viper mouse for free.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



How much are they paying you to take the razer products?

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

My post does sound very "schill"y now that I re-read it. I've just been a Razer fan since the Boomslang :-/

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Nah, I just dislike razer stuff since the Lachesis made my carpal tunnel act up; I didn't mean to pick on you personally.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



SalTheBard posted:

My post does sound very "schill"y now that I re-read it. I've just been a Razer fan since the Boomslang :-/

Holy poo poo, you must have flushed thousands of dollars down the toilet to those guys. The Boomslang?! That came out when I was still in high school!

astral
Apr 26, 2004

Out there.


That keyboard is the first Razer product that's even remotely interested me in years, but definitely not for $130, or even $130 minus whatever the mouse could be resold for. Not to mention I just bought that $50 Kingston detachable-cable TKL mechanical keyboard the other month from the MS store as a nice backup to my existing Corsair KB of similar design.

On a related note, I've been using the Razer Deathadder Chroma I received from an older Deathadder RMA ~4.5 years back and the scroll wheel switch might be in an early stage of failure. For a while now it's been occasionally thinking I've let go of the scroll wheel button while still holding it down. What's weird about it is that it's been extremely rare; the last time I had a scroll wheel switch fail on a (Razer) mouse, it would frequently stop registering scroll wheel button presses to begin with. That hasn't happened this time around.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

The full size Huntsman is the only non-Corsair full keyboard I've seen that has a proper volume control, and that is something that I will not live without. The price is ouch though, I don't think I could justify it even if I was in the market for a new keyboard.

The fact that optical switches are so hard to gently caress up is the thing that made me buy a Viper Ultimate, everything is so unreliable now that I may as well give Razer a shot at this point. Short term everything about it is excellent, but we'll see how it holds up long term.

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984

K8.0 posted:

The full size Huntsman is the only non-Corsair full keyboard I've seen that has a proper volume control, and that is something that I will not live without. The price is ouch though, I don't think I could justify it even if I was in the market for a new keyboard.

The fact that optical switches are so hard to gently caress up is the thing that made me buy a Viper Ultimate, everything is so unreliable now that I may as well give Razer a shot at this point. Short term everything about it is excellent, but we'll see how it holds up long term.
I use this and I highly recommend it:
https://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-professional/

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


The Huntsman is probably perfectly fine on its own, but I wouldn't pay $130 for it. I don't think optical keyboard switches are that necessary (regular mechanical switches don't seem to fail anywhere near as often as the Chinese Omron mouse switches do.)

The Viper, however, is worth the $40-50 you can get it for right now (used/refurb'd on Amazon) or $35 (AWD) for the Mini, both as a nice gaming mouse and for the optical switches, which hopefully last far longer than the typical stock Omrons.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

I'm digging the Viper so far. I never realized how heavy the Naga was until I compared them

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008




Last gen razer blackwidow elite from 2018 also has a nice dial that is press to mute. I really like the wrist rest it comes with and its on discount if you look around. Woot.com was selling them for close to $100 very recently

If i wasnt addicted to RGB I would go with the das keyboard simply for the longevity that comes from being able to repair it.

Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 11, 2020

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984

Fauxtool posted:

Last gen razer blackwidow elite from 2018 also has a nice dial that is press to mute. I really like the wrist rest it comes with and its on discount if you look around. Woot.com was selling them for close to $100 very recently

If i wasnt addicted to RGB I would go with the das keyboard simply for the longevity that comes from being able to repair it.
I just checked the site to see what new poo poo they were up to and they must be reading your mind:
https://www.daskeyboard.com/x/x50q-...nical-keyboard/

Currently $70 off ($129) but the difference are Gamma Zulu switches (which I have no experience with) instead of Cherry MX's. There's also the 4Q for $199 which looks the same as my 4 Pro but it's backlit (which admittedly would be really nice).

EDIT: And there's a 5Q hidden on the site for $249 and the only difference noted on their model comparison page is <1ms response time vs <20ms response time of other models: https://www.daskeyboard.com/p/5q-cl...nical-keyboard/

The Joe Man fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 11, 2020

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

I had a razer diamondback. It failed after about a year.

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



Most razer mice have a 2 year warranty so you contacted support and got a new one right?

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

this was 12 years ago, but i recall giving up and just getting a logitech, which lasted me forever.

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



Dont buy the razer diamondback 12 years ago if you arent willing to get a warranty replacement is I guess the lesson.
Logitech of that era was making some extremely robust mice to be fair

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

I bought a MX Revolution in like late 2006 and that mouse was awesome. It replaced my MX1000 (which replaced my Viper). Logitech did (does?) make a really good mouse. The Revolution was great.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

SalTheBard posted:

I bought a MX Revolution in like late 2006 and that mouse was awesome. It replaced my MX1000 (which replaced my Viper). Logitech did (does?) make a really good mouse. The Revolution was great.
this is what I bought after the razer and it lasted till 2015, my MX Performance I bought after that lasted me till this year

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Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Mouse "review": I bought a Viper Mini for ~$35 via AWD. It arrived in good condition, although with some telltale signs of wear (i.e. around where you'd grip it with your fingertips,) which is a little odd considering this mouse has only been around for literally 2 months (it had been just under 2 months since the stated release date when I ordered it.) Anyways, it "worked," however it has some issue where the sensor loses tracking and causes it to spin out, except this happens not while lifting (& slamming down) the mouse but while moving it across a flat, solid-black mousepad. I'm guessing this is why the previous owner returned it after not even 2 months of heavy use.

I'm returning it, though, not necessarily because I don't want to go through the warranty process with Razer (and also, direct replacement from Amazon is another option,) but because the mouse is tiny. It's very light, which is generally good (moreso if it were wireless though,) but it mandates an extreme fingertip grip, and may even cause hand cramps if I were to use it long term assuming the sensor worked. So even if it was perfect, I still might have to return it because of its size; otherwise, if you had smaller hands, or needed an ultra-portable mouse to stow in a laptop bag, it could work. It feels smaller than similar Logitech mice like the G Pro, G302, or the others based on those shapes because they have bulges or humps that make them easier to grip.

I generally agree with RJN's review of this mouse that it is [potentially] very nice, especially for the price, but his hands are smaller than mine, which are at the extreme end of his sizing guide thing as indicated at the timestamp in the video review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpe-vvHPsaw#t=109s

The full-size Razer (regular or Ultimate) is otherwise a solid option, and as I've said, hopefully those optical switches (which were the reason I was interested in trying the Mini) just don't fail like [the wrongly-chosen] mechanical ones.

SalTheBard posted:

I bought a MX Revolution in like late 2006 and that mouse was awesome. It replaced my MX1000 (which replaced my Viper). Logitech did (does?) make a really good mouse. The Revolution was great.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

this is what I bought after the razer and it lasted till 2015, my MX Performance I bought after that lasted me till this year

I looked it up, and I bought my MX Rev just over 13 years ago; I've written this story before, but its LMB started to fail and Logitech replaced it with a Performance MX, which I have on my desk to this day (although it doesn't feel like I've had it for upwards of 10-11 years!) I think I tossed the Rev, which I'm regretting a little, because now I know I can replace switches, although it's definitely got what I'd describe as an obsolete design, mainly with regards to that side switch/wheel thing and an archaic laser sensor.

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