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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would go to the trouble of buying replacement parts for a mouse, let alone a $30 budget mouse... It's 30 dollars for crying out loud, I spend more than that on coffee each week. Just buy a new one every year if you like that mouse but the feet keep wearing away.

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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Goo posted:

SourKraut - Not sure - I only work on gaming stuff so I'm not really familiar with what the productivity guys are doing for older products on OSX.

nftyw - The reality of consumer products is that companies stop making things people don't buy.

Carecat - The reality of consumer products is that companies make things that people will buy.

If you ever announced a big comfortable ergonomic gaming mouse that was wrapped in leather like a steering wheel or the grips of a gear stick I'd literally start throwing money at the screen in my haste to buy it. I'm so sick of shiny hard plastic shells.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I find it pretty stunning that Logitech gaming wireless mice only last a day on a charge... That would drive me insane. My old Sidewinder X8 (rip greatest mouse ever made) used to last a fortnight when the batteries were new. (this is at 2000dpi and all settings to best performance) I used to take the battery not lasting more than 3 or 4 days as my cue to replace the rechargeable battery.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Razer makes a deathadder for lefties.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Vidaeus, Australian retailers have a legal obligation to provide you with a refund or replacement if a product doesn't last a reasonable amount of time, there is no reason to deal directly with Logitech. The retailer should also be paying any shipping expenses you incur.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Vidaeus posted:

Yes, I know that now. It is too late for the other 3 mice that died this way and I don't want a replacement for this one. I don't want any more logitech mice. Anyone have any recommendations?

Do you need a mouse that does BOTH free scrolling and point to point scrolling? Plenty of non gaming mice don't bother with notches on the scroll wheel, but I'm pretty sure only logitech does the interchangeable stuff, and their hyper fast scrolling is pretty unique.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Vidaeus posted:

So while looking around, I found this thing:
http://www.func.net/en/products/ms-3/



Actually looks really cool. Problem is nowhere in Australia sells it that I can see. Looks like I might have to import it.

I would love to hear your thoughts on it if you do, and where you got it from, that mouse looks amazing. 6.5ft is a tad short as far as cables go though. The deathadder is 7ft, 6.5 is only just enough, maybe a tad too short.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Maybe look into corsair or steel series? They've been well reviewed of late.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Vidaeus posted:

Another bit of information on the Func MS-3 that I didn't see mentioned in the review or the website:
Profiles appear to be stored on the mouse, not the software. I re-installed Windows 7 due to a hdd failure, and my custom button macro (alt+f4 on the bottom thumb click) seem to have stayed on the mouse, and I haven't even installed the Func software.

EDIT: After a few days' use, this thing is still ridiculously comfortable.

Why oh why could they not have used an optical sensor? It would have been perfection in mouse form.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Looks like corsair has released some new mice. The Raptor M40 uses more or less the shell of the M60/M65 which I always liked but uses an Avago ADNS3090 4000 DPI optical sensor, which sounds very promising indeed. I just need to find out how long the cable is, many mouse cables aren't long enough the way my desk is set up.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Calidus posted:

Corsair went mouse crazy, 6 new mice on top of the m65/m95 refreshes. The Raptor M4 might be the g9x replacement I have been waiting for.

Some of those mice - the ones like the raptor M4 that have radically different styling - are from corsair buying up another gaming peripheral maker. The former company had a reputation for making cheap and nasty crap, so it would be best to wait a generation for corsair to make improvements. At the moment they are just rebranded existing products. (The M30 is corsair made however, despite the old aesthetics.)

I'm thinking ahead to what my next mouse will likely be. (Not that my deathadder 3.5G is dying or anything, but it has its annoying quirks, and I get itchy feet every now and then for something new) It's pretty hard to find a mouse with a good optical sensor, that supports an acceptable CPI, and has adequate cable length. 6.5 feet is only just going to cut it, I may even need to do some repositioning, 7 foot is perfect but the deathadder is the only mouse I know of with a cable that long.

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 6, 2013

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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How do people feel about mionix?

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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The mionix 3200 is on my shortlist then.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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What kind of space aerobics are you doing with your mouse to cause a USB cable to come unplugged? Does it not fit securely to begin with?

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Gorilla Salad posted:

I should have known this would happen - I post about how happy I've always been with my G700 and now the left mouse button is dying. I've plugged the receiver into a new USB slot, blown air under the button and even installed FixMouseLMB that stops unwanted double clicks (I've had to mash the button because it's so unresponsive :(), but it's no use.

Now I'm looking at spending Aus$150 if I buy a G700S locally or Aus$120 from overseas, but with all the added hassle if something goes wrong with the mouse.

How old is it? If you've had it since launch you may have a tough sell, but if it hasn't lasted a reasonable* period of time the store that sold it to you is legally obligated to give you a refund or replacement. (If you have proof of purchase)

*There is no real definition of what is reasonable, but most decent stores are sufficiently unwilling to incur the $25000 fine for refusing to give you a refund that you should be able to make them give in with a few threats. The ACCC has been on the warpath lately when it comes to retailers refusing to provide refunds and replacements, they are looking for people to make examples of.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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icantfindaname posted:

Does the Steelseries sensei raw have a good sensor, as in no acceleration or anything other than raw input? I'm thinking about picking one up.

No. The sensei mice all have laser sensors, and all laser sensors have some degree of crap like acceleration and what not.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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chippy posted:

Is there some technical reason for this, or is it just how they're all made?

I'm not sure. I'm not an expert on the technical side of things, it's just what I've learned from reading reviews, for some reason you can't get a laser mouse that doesn't have some degree of acceleration.

That's why all the pro gamers are using optical mice. That being said, most people probably don't care/can't tell the difference, but if it matters to you, there are a good number of modern optical mice out there, and being optical, they tend to be very affordable.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Absorbs Smaller Goons posted:

Is the logitech warranty & customer service not what it used to be? I've had their products replaced out of warranty with shipping at their expenses, and they were generally regarded as having the best customer service in the entire computer peripherals industry by others.

Did this change or is it just their australia/remote regions department that suck in the c.r. Department?

Going to give my usual spiel about Australian consumer law here.

Australian Law requires retailers to provide you with your choice of a refund, repair, or replacement for damaged items, items that fail to last a reasonable length of time (this can often be deemed to be much longer than the standard warranty), differ significantly from what is described, have some issue that would have prevented you from purchasing it had you known about it, or fail to do something that a salesperson said it would. Retailers are obligated to pay any shipping expenses you incur in the process of returning the item to them.

There are very large fines for businesses that do not comply with these laws, and the ACCC is currently very keen to make examples of non compliant businesses.

If you have an issue with a product, return it to the store you bought it from. There is no reason whatsoever to interact with a manufacturer.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Gorilla Salad posted:

I'm honestly surprised we still have physical "wheels" on our mice. Like the balls that used to be underneath them, wheels just collect crap. Nasty crap. We need solid state mice.

They should make them with the same sort of tech that's in an ipod click wheel. Slide your finger back and forth along a nice smooth surface for mouse wheel. Press down for middle click.

There are any number of mice that do this. I would never use one of them for gaming.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Stangg posted:

I have a Sidewinder X8 that I've been using for 3 years now. I bought it as my first "gaming" mouse for one main reason, I wanted something wireless with as little lag as possible. I also bought it because it was cheaper as part of the keyboard/mouse deal and I thought it looked cool. It has never failed me or degraded in use, I love the little magnetic charger and its weight/way it feels.

I also discovered a button I had never seen before just the other day (turns out its for recording macros) and discovered that the little wire holder for my charger cable also has a removable top which contains alternate feet for the mouse.

I was using the intellipoint wireless keyboard/mouse before this and while the wireless keyboard was great for lounging in bed the mouse let me down more frequently than I would have liked.

It was a great mouse, and it's such a shame Microsoft stopped making them.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Stangg posted:

Oh I didn't know that, did they not sell very well?

Not sure - every publication raved about them, I think Microsoft just decided to refocus on gesture and touch enhanced bullshit for windows 8 and just decided to stop making gear aimed at gamers and enthusiasts.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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spider wisdom posted:

So this is weird.



Looks like the rubberized coating is bunching up. What's weirder is that I didn't even notice until I was cleaning my desk around the mouse -- my ring finger doesn't come in contact with this part of the mouse. I'm the primary user and I haven't spilled anything on it. What gives? I don't think it's a big enough deal to return it, but it's ... a thing. I'll drop an email to support and see what they say.

What brand of mouse is it so I know what to avoid?

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Some Questions for Goo regarding the upcoming G602 which is making me rather excited in my pants:

1. Does the mouse prefer a hard or soft mousing surface?

2. What are the Dimensions of the mouse (and why isn't this information included in specs for your mice on the logitech website?)

3. What sort of batteries are the 250 hour battery life estimate based on? Standard Alkaline Batteries? High performance Lithium batteries?

4. The mousewheel looks oddly smooth in pictures - I assume it still spins in notches?, a mousewheel without notches is a dealbreaker for gaming.

5. Can you go into more detail on the surface material - It looks kinda glossy in pictures, is it a more rubberised soft touch kinda plastic, or a hard smooth material?

6. I assume as an optical sensor it is free of any acceleration?

7. The 500hz polling rate isn't a big issue for me, but I'm curious as to why you didn't include 1000hz, and just implement a 3 mode switch instead of a 2 mode switch for the power profile, thus giving gamers who insist on 1000hz the option to trade battery life for polling rate?

8. How stiff are the side buttons?

Some more general feedback for your feedback hat:

I really like the new aesthetic direction this mouse represents. Aesthetics have been a major contributing factor towards me not having purchased a logitech mouse up till now, so the new direction is great to see.

I'm keen to see the following trends for mice:

- Greater use of rubberised coatings, since they are grippier and produce less sweat

- More defined pinkie ledges so that palm grippers don't have ring and pinky fingers trailing on the mousing surface.

One thing I've noticed with mice is that hand gunk gets into the joins and gaps on the surface of the mouse. It's particularly bad on my deathadder, since the LMB and RMB form part of the top panel of the mouse, so the gap is wider. I find myself often cleaning gunk out with a business card. Now obviously the shell needs holes where the buttons are, but would it be feasible to design a mouse where the shell had no joins anywhere on the surface where a person's hand would sit during use? Say for example the top and sides where a single piece of plastic?

Thanks in advance and thanks for being willing to engage with the community like this.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Gorilla Salad posted:

Didn't even know there was a G602 in the pipeline. So glad I held off replacing my ailing G700 when the left mouse button started dying. I just remapped it to another button and kept on rocking, but I've certainly been looking to upgrade.


But how do you recharge the G602? From Logitech's website and the support page, it looks like you have to replace the batteries.

There's no bloody way I'm pulling the batteries out once a week to recharge the drat thing and having no mouse for however long that takes. What a completely loving stupid design decision.


For the love of god, bring back the cradle!

The batteries supposedly last a minimum of 250 hours, under maximum performance mode. That's a big part of the deal that makes this new mouse so impressive.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Goo posted:

I will forward that to the QA and software teams when I get back from PAX. Thanks.
A bumpier surface gives more surface area for your skin to grip when it starts to sweat, as well as more places for sweat to escape rather than act as a lubricant between your skin and the surface. We use a standard MT type texture with a matte UV-cured protective finish on the G600.


1 - Mouse sensors don't really care whether they're on a hard or soft surface. What matters are the reflectivity characteristics of the surface they're on and how the sensor is configured to receive the light bounced off of it. G602's sensor works well on all of the gaming surfaces we've tested it on except for some weird ones that no one ever really bought like red glass.

2 - As mentioned above, dimensions are almost identical to G700. I don't have a ruler in my hotel so I can't be more precise.

3 - It is not an estimate. We put the thing on a turntable with 2xAA alkaline batteries (1500 mAh @ 1.5v) and ran it until it died. It took over 250 hours. Actual time between battery swaps is significantly longer because even when you're using the mouse heavily you're not running the sensor 100% of the time you're using it.

4 - The tire is smooth, but the material is grippy. The wheel is ratcheted, not frictionless.

5 - The primary keys are sprayed with a matte clearcoat like the G700 or G600. The grip areas left and right are sprayed with a coating that is about halfway between the dry-grip material we use on G700s/G500s and the soft touch coating we use on G400s. It is grippy without feeling sandpapery. The palm/knuckle rest area is a rubber overmold. The only parts that are glossy are the silverish breakup lines between the various touch zones - where hands generally don't make contact.

6 - The sensor is illuminated by an IR LED and is very similar in performance to the G100s.

7 - The goal for G602 was maximizing battery life while delivering a great gaming experience. For gamers that absolutely need a 1ms report rate, we have G700s and many wired gaming mice.

8 - Button force is similar to G700s.

Thanks for the feedback on the design. It's a significant step away from what we've done before and I always hold my breath a little when we do that - hoping other people think it's interesting rather than terrible.

Doing a large living hinge design like you're describing is possible but introduces a lot of complexity and potential to twist - which will create a less-good clicking experience overall.
My G602 took about 2.5 months to go through one set of batteries using it for work and gaming, and it's been over 2 months since I put the second set in. The mouse ships with two AA alkaline batteries, but it works fine with NiMH as well.

Thanks for the response. To clarify, I wasn't suggesting you implement a deathadder style hinge - I hate them - I was using them to describe how hand gunk gets stuck in the seam that runs along the side of the mouse because having the buttons be part of the top surface of the mouse like razer does makes the seams wider, and the seams run along the top of the mouse, making them constantly under your hand.

I also want to thank logitech for designing what is to my knowledge the only wireless gaming mouse with an optical sensor. As a gamer who would never use a laser sensor, I've spent ages wondering why there weren't any and hoping somebody would make one - It's always felt like optical sensors were reserved for cheap low end mice, (though I understand the marketing reasons behind that) and I'm glad to finally have a premium product to buy.

And once again I love the new direction - nothing says premium product like simple black and silver - logitech mice in the past -I'm looking specifically at the aesthetic exemplified by the G400, G500 and G700 - have always seemed kinda cheap and tacky, and that super smooth finish to the top surface of those mice was terrible. The new design on the G602 looks much nicer.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Obese FYAD Reject posted:

Then again, I don't really NEED a new mouse since my Drakonia is in good shape and I really like it.

Sometimes it's about wants, not needs.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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PreformedSoup posted:

I've been using a Razer Deathadder 3500 for the last couple years now and it's started doing funky stuff (clicking on it's own occasionally) so I'm looking for something new. I still have an MX518 but I've really gotten used to the 3500 DPI speed. How has the general experience with the G400 been? My only gripe with the G400s (and really all of Logitech's gaming mice) is that all the new mouse shells look like, in my opinion, absolute rear end. I know a few goons recommended the Zowie Evo but it looks like it only goes up to 2300 DPI. Any recommendations to transition from the DA?

Mionix Naos 3200

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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MrCodeDude posted:

My Razer DeathAdder is going out again, I think tossing it around in a backpack was the final straw.

Unfortunately, these things always crap out right after the warranty expires (purchased in August 2011), so I'm in the market for a new mouse.

I have a Steelseries Sensei at my parent's house that is okay. I don't really like the Logitech MX Revolution or G700. I didn't mind the Creative Labs Fatal1ty 1010/2020, but it wasn't my favorite.

If I'm looking for a corded right-handed mouse, is the DeathAdder still my best bet? I see there's a Razer Mamba, but I've never been that big of a fan of wireless mice.

e: Just saw the recommendations for the FUNC MS-3. Does the round button in the middle of the left part of the mouse annoy anyone? I usually wrest my thumb below the two buttons on the DeathAdder; having that round button in the middle might lead to a bit of mis-clicks.

You could try a mionix naos 3200, or something from zowie.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Looks like the G602 will be available in Australia from the first of November for $92. It's a tad more than I wanted to spend but at this stage I think I'm going to pull the trigger and buy one.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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NihilCredo posted:

I just found this infographic on an imageboard. Aware of the fact that 90% of players won't ever notice the kind of behaviours outlined in the picture, can Goo or another professional comment on the part at the very bottom where it claims tracking issues with the ADNS-9500 sensor, due to the self-adjusting frame rate feature?



Most pro gamers will tell you that Laser sensors are marketing bullshit, and a mouse has to have an optical sensor to be acceptable. (that being said the naos 3200 is optical and I had no idea about the angle snapping issues.)

The logitech G602 is optical however, so it may very well be added to the good tier. It is as far as I know the only gaming grade optical mouse that is also wireless.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Klyith posted:

I have a cat. The way pretty much all optical mice these days are constructed, they can get a cat hair caught in the recess where the sensor is. When that happens it messes up the tracking and OH MY GOD MY KILLSTREAK gently caress YOU CAT. Gotta send my cat off to the shelter to get the big needle, can't have anything loving up my leet gaming skillz.

That's a little drastic there dude. You can always just shave your cat.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Agreed posted:

Yep, I ended up sitting on 4000 x/y as I find it's most comfortable for me. I am not a DPI evangelist, this is just the setting I prefer.

How lovely are Razer's drivers, exactly? I'm not super stoked at the idea of going with one of their products, but...

If I didn't pretty much require a palm grip for comfort I might go with one of the CM Storm Spawn models. And I guess there's still the Corsair ones, I like their optics placement and shape but I've read recent and disturbing reviews suggesting that there's a noticeable delay between movement and action. I had my fill of that with the MX wireless mice.

Razer's drivers are so lovely they involve having an internet connection and connecting to the cloud. Consider one of the new logitech G602s as well - even nicer shape, really well suited for palm grippers; only gaming grade wireless mouse with an optical sensor that I know of. It's a fantastic product.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Agreed posted:

Logitech has the most comfortable mice I've ever used, but I am done with wireless mice (even the kind that have a cord you can plug in to charge, hassle I don't need and a lot of technology there that just isn't doing me any good). Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the cord and I'm sticking with wired keyboard and mouse as long as it's still a thing.

By the way, aheh, I've got a word filter that turns "the cloud" into "my butt" because I am a silly child and this page is funny to me now. I don't like the no on-mouse storage, it doesn't even have DPI adjustment? ... Man, I wish I could know one way or another whether Corsair's M65 and M95 DO or DO NOT have latency issues, they're the most attractive competitors that match my current mouse (CM Storm Sentinel Advance II) and have arguably superior features, really dig that sniper button on the M65 but I could do a lot with the macros on the M95 as I've found through the K95 that I have.

Mice! So many mice! Is there just, like, a list somewhere of mice that use Avago's ADNS 9800 sensor (the ridiculously high DPI one with less inherent acceleration and better angle-snapping behavior than the older 9500 sensor), and a list of what uses modern high-DPI optical sensors? I don't need more than 4000 DPI, but I really can't do less, either, not comfortably. Even going back down to 2700 to try to answer TRR's question about whether I need 4000 was uncomfortable and required more movement than I'm now used to. Maybe that seems like a bizarrely high sensitivity but it works well for me and I like it a lot.

Well hey if you want to connect your...um...driver... to my butt that's entirely acceptable to me. The deathadder doesn't have a dps button on the mouse, you have to fire up the software every time you want to adjust it.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Too Poetic posted:

How are Cooler Master mice? I'm looking at the CM Storm Inferno, it looks good. I'd be replacing my G9x, I like it but it's my 2nd G9x in 2 years that I have had problems with double clicking.

I'd kinda like a wireless mouse though, any good ones out there?

Get a Logitech G602. Pretty much the best wireless gaming mouse out there now that the Sidewinder X8 no longer exists.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Too Poetic posted:

Any reason to get the G602 over the G700?

Because the G602:

1. Doesn't look like poo poo
2. Is one of the only logitech mice to have a decent sensor (and is the only wireless gaming mouse I know of to have a good sensor)

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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AlphaDog posted:

The g500s I bought a couple of months ago no longer changes between freescrolling and clicky scroll as of 5 minutes ago. Pressed the button, nothing happened. Pressed it again, and now it's stuck in this lovely not-quite-either-mode mode. I use the button maybe once a week when I'm scrolling through spreadsheets or PDFs, it's usually left in clicky mode.

Taking it back tomorrow. Thank gently caress for Aussie retail laws. Not sure what to get this time, since the RAT 7 was a shaky, poorly built mess. I don't know why I keep expecting logitech stuff to be adequate.

e: Really want a Func ms-3, but I can't find one for sale in Australia and given that the last 2 mice I've bought have been poo poo, I don't want to order from overseas.
Corsair maybe? They typically have well built products.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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AlphaDog posted:

You're right, so I got a replacement instead of a refund, because I like the mouse when it's not broken.

I loved my G5 and it lasted forever, but every Logitech product I've bought in the past 3 years has failed in some way, and their Australian branch's support/service is awful, so now I have reservations about their products.

If you live in Australia you have no possible reason to be contacting a manufacturer's support. If a product fails in an unreasonably short period of time, you return it to the store you bought it from and they are legally obligated to give you a refund. I did this for a graphics card that failed: I bought a radeon 5970 in 2010 for $700, it failed in 2012, so I took it back to the store, got my $700 back, and then spent $500 at the same store to buy a gtx680.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I think some people just have an unreasonable expectation for how long a thing you pay $50 for should last. 3 years is a long time, I'd be very happy for a mouse to last that long. We live in an age of planned obsolescence, where we toss out our phones every 2 years, hell, my current PC is 3.5 years old, and thats the oldest PC I've ever owned - I plan to replace it before it hits 4 and I can't imagine keeping the same PC for longer than that.

If my mouse kept dying after 6 months, I'd be pissed off, but as long as I get 2 or 3 years out of it, I'm pretty happy.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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dusty posted:

Over here the Logitech distributor prices their stuff 2-6 times higher than US pricing. How long should a $300 mouse last? Cause I paid more than that for my mx700 and it was fabulous value for money.

The new gear... not so much.

The sad thing is though that Logitech gear definitely used to be better quality - which is why I own so much of their stuff. I still love my k800 keyboard even though the number keypad on this replacement is failing. It's a shame they've lowered the bar from where they used to be.


----
Hmmmm.
It might be worth getting that g700s from Amazon and paying obscene freight forward charges. We can be assured it'll fail within a few years, but what wont?



Oh poo poo MX700 still for sale, recommend you buy and stockpile prepper style--- http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-MX70...&keywords=mx700

I'd say 3 years is a reasonable time for a mouse to last, even if you paid 300 dollars for it. (Don't buy a 300 dollar mouse). Maybe consider one of corsair's keyboards? They look really nice.

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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
[quote=""Lanky Coconut Tree"" post=""422352318""]
My Razer is having loving tracking issues and it hasn't even been 1 year since I got this. Is the Func MS3 the only mouse which has those two ring and pinky rests? I want a mouse that has that, but I can't get it over here in Asia.
[/quote]

Mionix mice do this too, although not quite as pronounced.

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