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BlueArmyMan
Mar 30, 2007
Hooloovoo
I've read numerous times in this thread about how important it is to get an internship, but what does one do if they're getting their Bachelor's through e-learning/distance education?

My idea is that once my wife's done with her Masters that I'll go back to school for Accounting through either night classes or, preferably, distance learning/online classes. I prefer to go this route because she's getting her Masters in marine biology, which means we could move anywhere at any time for her job, and I intend to work a couple part time self-employment jobs as I do this. For reference, I already have a Bachelor of Arts in mass communications, and I'm looking to change careers, especially since I haven't worked within my major since graduation about seven years ago.

I suppose this is a question on the validity/wisdom of obtaining an Accounting Bachelor's through distance learning as well. I don't mean going through an online only establishment like University of Phoenix is (or was), but rather applying to an online program through a brick and mortar school (Troy University was recommended to me by a co-worker). Would I be hampered in job searching because my degree was completed online instead of the more traditional fashion?

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bleh
Jun 13, 2003

BlueArmyMan posted:

I suppose this is a question on the validity/wisdom of obtaining an Accounting Bachelor's through distance learning as well. I don't mean going through an online only establishment like University of Phoenix is (or was), but rather applying to an online program through a brick and mortar school (Troy University was recommended to me by a co-worker). Would I be hampered in job searching because my degree was completed online instead of the more traditional fashion?

On your resume you would just state your school name, major, and GPA. So they won't even know until you went into an interview and then they may not even ask. I never had any one ask me if I took classes online but I haven't interviewed in a while. I think the school you pick and/or your GPA would have a greater effect.

bleh fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 13, 2010

flyingfoggy
Jun 3, 2006

My fellow Obamas...

BlueArmyMan posted:

I've read numerous times in this thread about how important it is to get an internship, but what does one do if they're getting their Bachelor's through e-learning/distance education?

If you already have a BA you may want to look into masters in accounting programs. I know most programs are geared toward undergraduate accounting/business majors and your pickings will probably be even slimmer if you're only looking at online programs, but I'm sure there's a few online masters or part time accelerated programs that would work for you.

Totally Normal
Mar 29, 2003

WELLNESS!
I have one of those aforementioned 6-month-career-starter-wanting-to-kill-themselves in my medical school class. Moral of the story: be a doctor, it'll still crush your soul, but it will do it gradually and not over the course of six months.

Mandalay
Mar 16, 2007

WoW Forums Refugee
How hard is the CMA exam compared to the CPA exam?

Mokhu
Mar 3, 2004

NCAA Hopesman Winner 2008
Fallen Rib
In my state, taking the CPA exam requires 30 more credits than it requires to graduate. This could go towards a Business Admin. major for example. I've just recently switched to Accounting (from Mechanical Engineering) and I've considered eventually getting an MBA along with the Accounting major. Would this just be a waste of time?

hellboundburrito
Aug 4, 2004

Darkmage posted:

In my state, taking the CPA exam requires 30 more credits than it requires to graduate. This could go towards a Business Admin. major for example. I've just recently switched to Accounting (from Mechanical Engineering) and I've considered eventually getting an MBA along with the Accounting major. Would this just be a waste of time?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but most MBA programs want you to have some work experience prior to enrollment. It would most definitely not be a waste of time to get an MBA at some point after you become an accountant - in fact, most people who leave my firm (a Big 4) go for their MBA after as it will give you a lot more opportunities. If you graduate with an accounting degree, have a decent GPA and take the right steps towards getting a job, you'll be in a good place to eventually get an MBA.

Hellblazer187
Oct 12, 2003

Arcaeris posted:

See the lawyer megathread in A/T, and then throw away any dreams of success as a lawyer.

There are 45,000 law students graduating every year, fighting for less than 30,000 new jobs.

I'm already a lawyer. It sucks, there's no jobs. So that's why I'm back in undergrad getting re-trained.

LactoseO.D.'d
Jun 3, 2002

hellboundburrito posted:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but most MBA programs want you to have some work experience prior to enrollment.

The more reputable programs require it. The average MBA age has been getting younger and younger though. More people are pursuing the degree earlier in their careers. I don't understand it, but some people try to pick up an MBA right out of undergrad, and there are programs that let them.

hellboundburrito
Aug 4, 2004

LactoseO.D.'d posted:

The more reputable programs require it. The average MBA age has been getting younger and younger though. More people are pursuing the degree earlier in their careers. I don't understand it, but some people try to pick up an MBA right out of undergrad, and there are programs that let them.

This is true. I suppose that people who are getting their MBA earlier are just following the trend right now, where it seems like more and more people who can't jobs out of college are going to grad school and for a business major, an MBA is a pretty logical progression. Some MSA programs can be useful (in terms of preparing you for an accounting career, taking the CPA exam) especially if you need more credits to become licensed, but in general I'd say if you can get the credits by cheaper and quicker means it is better. An MBA is far more useful for getting better jobs than an MSA is.

scribe jones
Sep 17, 2008

One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.
You can also look for something like the program I'm taking, which is basically like a master's of accounting except you don't end up with a master's degree :(

Nipple Drainage
Feb 19, 2006

Arcaeris posted:

See the lawyer megathread in A/T, and then throw away any dreams of success as a lawyer.

There are 45,000 law students graduating every year, fighting for less than 30,000 new jobs.

Yes, but how many of them have a Masters in Tax or an LLM in Taxation? As well as CA/CPA's? That's the difference.

A tax lawyer being hired for extensive work in corporations can charge anywhere from 600-1000/hr. Though I'm sure the nature of the job they are being hired for greatly influences the rate. They can also be held on retainer for low/mid 6 figures.
Tax lawyers have a solid decade of classroom education and another 4 years or so of practical learning behind them. The sole purpose of all that education is to save wealthy individuals or corporations money on taxes, answer tax questions, find loopholes, defend re-assessments, etc.

Mr. Zour's comment on tax lawyers isn't that big of an exaggeration.

Buskas
Aug 31, 2004
?

Nipple Drainage posted:

Yes, but how many of them have a Masters in Tax or an LLM in Taxation? As well as CA/CPA's? That's the difference.

A tax lawyer being hired for extensive work in corporations can charge anywhere from 600-1000/hr. Though I'm sure the nature of the job they are being hired for greatly influences the rate. They can also be held on retainer for low/mid 6 figures.
Tax lawyers have a solid decade of classroom education and another 4 years or so of practical learning behind them. The sole purpose of all that education is to save wealthy individuals or corporations money on taxes, answer tax questions, find loopholes, defend re-assessments, etc.

Mr. Zour's comment on tax lawyers isn't that big of an exaggeration.

quote:

In the loosest sense of the word, I am a lawyer. I am licesned to practice law, but I do not have a job as an attorney and probably never will.

That practical learning requires a firm deciding you are worth it. You don't just walk into a job leading to fortunes as a tax attorney.

E: Also, not all tax lawyers have Masters degrees or accounting designations. My father is a tax lawyer and has neither.

Stryfe
Jun 20, 2006
Death is instant, Pain will end, glory is forever
This is just anecdotal and a very narrow perspective but i do work as an intern at a 20 person local public accounting firm. Disregard for big4,public, audit, TS etc but vanilla tax at a small firm is extremely plain. You are mostly just tossing around paperwork and filling in Xs and Os with no human contact for hours. Extremely repetitive (also you asked about math, none involved really.. crunching a few numbers into a calculator for ratios at most). On the otherhand, jobs are plenty, pay is decent. From what i've heard i would try to persuit a job at a big4, you get a name on your resume, more varied/challenging work and theres a lot more room for progressive (especially outside public accounting, if you want to move into industry).

Stryfe fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 17, 2010

Nipple Drainage
Feb 19, 2006

Buskas posted:

That practical learning requires a firm deciding you are worth it. You don't just walk into a job leading to fortunes as a tax attorney.

I'm aware.

Buskas posted:

E: Also, not all tax lawyers have Masters degrees or accounting designations. My father is a tax lawyer and has neither.

Which may explain why you aren't posting from a yacht via satellite link-up.

You can or cannot have a CPA/CA and you can or cannot have a masters in tax. My post indicated these two, as they put you into what I beleive is the real meaning of Tax Attorney, building on Mr.Zero's post. Just as you can be an accountant, but only have a CGA or CMA. When people generally describe an accountant, I assume they refer to an accountant holding a CPA/CA.

Nipple Drainage fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jan 17, 2010

Brother Michael
Jul 4, 2005
++Pirate Captain++

scribe jones posted:

You can also look for something like the program I'm taking, which is basically like a master's of accounting except you don't end up with a master's degree :(

I am doing the same thing. I figure as long as I pass the CPA exam, then what difference does a masters vs. certificate make? Maybe I am making a horrible choice that I will regret, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a masters program.

Hellblazer187
Oct 12, 2003

My career plan is to get this CPA thing and work for big 4 for a little while if I can get in, and if I get sick of accounting or get let go or get burned out, I might apply to the good LLm schools. It's always an option and it becomes a better option if I've been an accountant for 5-10 years. Hopefully, though, I just enjoy accounting enough to not have to do that.

edit: other possible career path would be to go solo as an accountant who can also provide some legal services (wills, trusts, etc.) although I'd have to be careful with the bar combining the two services. Mostly I just want to work for a company and make a salary though.

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

Hellblazer187 posted:

edit: other possible career path would be to go solo as an accountant who can also provide some legal services (wills, trusts, etc.) although I'd have to be careful with the bar combining the two services. Mostly I just want to work for a company and make a salary though.

You don't want to do legal work. The bar will jump all over you, and if you mess up and get sued, you're going to get cleaned out.

Prosecutor: Do you have a law degree? Any formal training? Work for a law firm?

You: No. I read a book and took a continuing ed class on it, though.

Mr. Big
Sep 26, 2006

BONK!

AbbiTheDog posted:

You don't want to do legal work. The bar will jump all over you, and if you mess up and get sued, you're going to get cleaned out.

Prosecutor: Do you have a law degree? Any formal training? Work for a law firm?

You: No. I read a book and took a continuing ed class on it, though.

He does have a law degree though?

Hellblazer187
Oct 12, 2003

I'm a licensed attorney and I (sort of) work as an attorney right now. If I went solo as a CPA I could offer some legal services as well, such as wills.(although technically I'd have to set it up as a separate business, but I could work out of the same office location.) I have no idea what AbbitheDog is talking about. He also forgot that there is something called malpractice insurance.

edit: He's right that I don't really WANT to do legal work though.

Buskas
Aug 31, 2004
?

Nipple Drainage posted:

I'm aware.


Which may explain why you aren't posting from a yacht via satellite link-up.

You can or cannot have a CPA/CA and you can or cannot have a masters in tax. My post indicated these two, as they put you into what I beleive is the real meaning of Tax Attorney, building on Mr.Zero's post. Just as you can be an accountant, but only have a CGA or CMA. When people generally describe an accountant, I assume they refer to an accountant holding a CPA/CA.

You're missing the point.

You do not just get an LLM or CA/CPA and automatically are a candidate for tax law. You have to have a demonstrated passion and talent for the field, and usually a firm indicates they believe this before you choose to pursue an LLM or CA/CPA with a tax focus.

My father is a partner at a major Canadian law firm and leads its tax division for the city in which he resides. No, Canadian lawyers do not make as much as their US counterparts and cruise around on yachts all day.

E: The point not being MY FATHER, but that tax law is a competitive field and entrance into it relies more on commitment and talent than what letters one has behind their name.

Buskas fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jan 19, 2010

Mr. Zour
Aug 1, 2006

Buskas posted:

You're missing the point.

You do not just get an LLM or CA/CPA and automatically are a candidate for tax law. You have to have a demonstrated passion and talent for the field, and usually a firm indicates they believe this before you choose to pursue an LLM or CA/CPA with a tax focus.

My father is a partner at a major Canadian law firm and leads its tax division for the city in which he resides. No, Canadian lawyers do not make as much as their US counterparts and cruise around on yachts all day.

E: The point not being MY FATHER, but that tax law is a competitive field and entrance into it relies more on commitment and talent than what letters one has behind their name.
No one is making the claim that once you have a CA and LLM that you are all of a sudden making millions by sitting on a private yacht. There is no field where being lethargic about what you are doing lands you a good job. However, if you decide you want to go there with your career and have a CA/CPA with specialization in tax and an LLM it is a hell of a lot easier to land a job as a tax lawyer.

Also, the ones that do have a CA and LLM do rake in the cash.

Hellblazer187
Oct 12, 2003

Would it be terribly difficult for an American CPA to get work in Canada? I don't really have any serious plans to do that but I was just sort of curious if anyone knew about CPAs/CAs crossing borders.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

Hellblazer187 posted:

Would it be terribly difficult for an American CPA to get work in Canada? I don't really have any serious plans to do that but I was just sort of curious if anyone knew about CPAs/CAs crossing borders.

So far as I know, all the educational requirements are transferred, but you still actually need to pass the exam. This is from a Canadian perspective, however, and we require a certain number of auditing hours (usually) as well as an additional set of education (either the MPAcc or CASB programs) before taking the UFE, and from what little I've talked to people considering moving to the states, neither of those requirements are needed down there. So it may be harder to come up here after getting a CPA than going down there after getting a CA.

Also you could get a CMA/CGA in Canada (if you didn't want to do public accounting), but there would still be some similar hoops.

Nipple Drainage
Feb 19, 2006

rockin peanut posted:

So it may be harder to come up here after getting a CPA than going down there after getting a CA.

Yup. That's about right. Don't know why anyone would come up to Canada to work instead of staying in the USA though, unless for family or marriage reasons.

Ribsauce
Jul 29, 2006

Blacks in the back.
I have a couple of questions, I'm not really sure where to ask, here seems ok I guess.

Right now I'm working at a regional firm. I really like my job, I'm in mostly audit, been there for a little over a year, the work is interesting, sometimes stressful of course, especially now, but I like it. Passed the CPA, have my 150 hours (no masters though), and all that. Worked a crappy analyst job at a huge corporation before it for like a year too while studying for the cpa and being bad at finding a job. Right now I live in the same city I was born in, I only left for college, and I have always wanted to move to the west coast or a big rear end city and try it out. San Francisco is pretty much 1 or 2 on the list. I was going to do it before I got my job, but my dad talked me out of it without a job, and like a moron I listened.

I'm going to San Francisco for 2 weeks in mid May to visit some friends and ride around the coast. I'm strongly considering moving there. I wanted to try to interview for a couple of jobs while out there, and if I got a good one then move. However, if for whatever reason I change my mind, realize the move won't work, or it doesn't seem possible to get a good job out there, I obviously don't want my current employer to know I was interviewing other places since I wouldn't consider leaving for another job in town.

Is there a good way to go about this? I don't want to send my resume and then have someone call my firm and be like "Hey, ribsauce is checking out some jobs here, how good an employee is he?" because that won't go over well. I was thinking about sending it out and just putting "Regional firm" instead of my firm's name, but that seems weak too. I know I'm not the first person in America to do this and there has to be some form of protocol.

I'm also not restricting myself to public accounting, internal audit or another interesting job in finance would be awesome too.

Also, what type of salary should I want for my experience in San Francisco is anyone knows?

TheChimney
Jan 31, 2005
Does anybody know anything about he Defense Contract Audit Agency? I am about to go get my masters in accounting and am seriously considering them.

hellboundburrito
Aug 4, 2004

TheChimney posted:

Does anybody know anything about he Defense Contract Audit Agency? I am about to go get my masters in accounting and am seriously considering them.

I literally know nothing about the DCAA (I didn't even know it existed until just now), but this may be of interest to you. In college I had a professor for a fraud class who was a former US Attorney, then FBI agent, and he is currently a special agent with the DoD's Inspector General. His work sounds similar to this, in that he was a CPA and used accounting to trace money back to terrorist organizations and investigate contractor issues. He liked his work and it sounded pretty interesting to me, and in the future I may consider trying to get into that agency.

cf1140
Jun 28, 2008
Hellblazer you might want to look at Ryan and Company. They are a tax consulting firm, not a CPA firm, and they hired the two accounting students I know in my program that had law degrees.

Nipple Drainage
Feb 19, 2006

Ribsauce posted:

I have a couple of questions, I'm not really sure where to ask, here seems ok I guess.

Right now I'm working at a regional firm. I really like my job, I'm in mostly audit, been there for a little over a year, the work is interesting, sometimes stressful of course, especially now, but I like it. Passed the CPA, have my 150 hours (no masters though), and all that. Worked a crappy analyst job at a huge corporation before it for like a year too while studying for the cpa and being bad at finding a job. Right now I live in the same city I was born in, I only left for college, and I have always wanted to move to the west coast or a big rear end city and try it out. San Francisco is pretty much 1 or 2 on the list. I was going to do it before I got my job, but my dad talked me out of it without a job, and like a moron I listened.

I'm going to San Francisco for 2 weeks in mid May to visit some friends and ride around the coast. I'm strongly considering moving there. I wanted to try to interview for a couple of jobs while out there, and if I got a good one then move. However, if for whatever reason I change my mind, realize the move won't work, or it doesn't seem possible to get a good job out there, I obviously don't want my current employer to know I was interviewing other places since I wouldn't consider leaving for another job in town.

Is there a good way to go about this? I don't want to send my resume and then have someone call my firm and be like "Hey, ribsauce is checking out some jobs here, how good an employee is he?" because that won't go over well. I was thinking about sending it out and just putting "Regional firm" instead of my firm's name, but that seems weak too. I know I'm not the first person in America to do this and there has to be some form of protocol.

I'm also not restricting myself to public accounting, internal audit or another interesting job in finance would be awesome too.

Also, what type of salary should I want for my experience in San Francisco is anyone knows?

Can you perhaps get into a big 4 or more international firm, while still living in your city? And then apply for internal transfer to one of the bigger cities? That'd be one of the safer routes to take if possible.

This move doesn't sound like it has to be now so I'd take the most conservative route. I'm not sure how american employers work with calling past employers and such, so no comment there.

Ribsauce
Jul 29, 2006

Blacks in the back.
It doesn't have to happen now but the most conservative route has me in Raleigh still instead of leaving already.

I have no desire to leave my firm now and stay here. I wouldn't leave it except to move, its a great place

Hellblazer187
Oct 12, 2003

BelgianSandwich posted:

Hellblazer you might want to look at Ryan and Company. They are a tax consulting firm, not a CPA firm, and they hired the two accounting students I know in my program that had law degrees.

Thanks for the heads up. They've got an office in my city too.

puchu
Sep 20, 2004

hiya~
What are some burning issues that accountants are keeping up with this year? I'm starting to prep for interviews you see...

Nipple Drainage
Feb 19, 2006

They always talk about IFRS stuff and inventory stories.

hellboundburrito
Aug 4, 2004

puchu posted:

What are some burning issues that accountants are keeping up with this year? I'm starting to prep for interviews you see...

I'm with a Big 4 and only audit private companies, and one thing we've been discussing a lot lately is FIN 48 implementation for private entities. If you're interviewing with a smaller firm that deals mostly with privately held clients you might impress an interviewer with some knowledge about that. As another poster said we are also looking at IFRS although that is a bit further down the road for us.

LactoseO.D.'d
Jun 3, 2002
Can anyone point me towards, or tell me some information about, a career in forensic accounting?

puchu
Sep 20, 2004

hiya~

hellboundburrito posted:

I'm with a Big 4 and only audit private companies, and one thing we've been discussing a lot lately is FIN 48 implementation for private entities. If you're interviewing with a smaller firm that deals mostly with privately held clients you might impress an interviewer with some knowledge about that. As another poster said we are also looking at IFRS although that is a bit further down the road for us.

Ah, IFRS has hit my country (New Zealand) already I think

renholder
Feb 12, 2006
Ghost of Perdition

hellboundburrito posted:

I'm with a Big 4 and only audit private companies, and one thing we've been discussing a lot lately is FIN 48 implementation for private entities. If you're interviewing with a smaller firm that deals mostly with privately held clients you might impress an interviewer with some knowledge about that. As another poster said we are also looking at IFRS although that is a bit further down the road for us.

i am curious if you mean something else besides fin 48, since the effective date is 2006, or you have businesses with a lot of questionable tax deductions? I work primarily in bank accounting and the major hot button stuff is still allowance for loan and lease losses, fair value accounting, and other than temporary impairment.

hellboundburrito
Aug 4, 2004

renholder posted:

i am curious if you mean something else besides fin 48, since the effective date is 2006, or you have businesses with a lot of questionable tax deductions? I work primarily in bank accounting and the major hot button stuff is still allowance for loan and lease losses, fair value accounting, and other than temporary impairment.

Public companies have been dealing with FIN 48 for a few years now (I guess since 2006), but private entities were only required to implement it for years ended after 12/15/2009. If someone here is applying to a Big 4 and looking for top of mind things to talk about, FIN 48 probably won't be a big deal. However, since I only deal with private entities and I know many small accounting firms and some regional firms primarily work for private companies as well, FIN 48 implementation could be something that an interviewer would be impressed by if you are knowledgeable about it. That being said, since FIN 48 has been around for a while some private companies may have implemented it already, possibly even at its inception. However, I know from experience that there are many that have not.

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renholder
Feb 12, 2006
Ghost of Perdition
ah, ok. what kind of issues do you come up with fin 48 implementation at private companies? just curious

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