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ab0z
Jun 28, 2008

by angerbotSD
Cool, thanks for the link. I may need to order a couple things from there.

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Francis Baconator
Jul 11, 2008

Thanks for the avatar man!

ab0z posted:

Cool, thanks for the link. I may need to order a couple things from there.
Yeah, I've gone through a few vendors and I have to recommend eeuroparts. Plus, you get the free shipping for orders above $49, which is actually pretty timely at 1-3 days. Don't worry, it's not too hard to get your order to qualify for free shipping...just kidding. :haw: Great place, though, and I'm not even getting paid to say it.

bung: If you have the chance, test a known good DI cassette. Or, if you have the money, order a new or used one and put it in to save yourself the trouble on your misfire. Sometimes the path of least resistance is worth it even if it costs.

Mike_P
Aug 4, 2006

"I dunnoooow"
Since the Saab aficionados are out, is there any major reason not to buy something like this?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ctd/1540102019.html (2002 Saab 9-3)
I'm looking for a new daily driver and I like the quirky design. I can't drive stick so I'll be looking at automatics, are they solid enough? When does the turbo need a rebuild? Looking to spend around $5k.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Mike_P posted:

Since the Saab aficionados are out, is there any major reason not to buy something like this?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ctd/1540102019.html (2002 Saab 9-3)
I'm looking for a new daily driver and I like the quirky design. I can't drive stick so I'll be looking at automatics, are they solid enough? When does the turbo need a rebuild? Looking to spend around $5k.


the SE is wicked fast, turbo v6. I have a 1999 but they're practically the same car. For 5k that is a steal, but of course check it out first.

I could be wrong but they generally die around 70-80k. At least thats when my mom and my dad's died.

Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jan 7, 2010

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Karl Barks posted:

the SE is wicked fast, turbo v6. I have a 1999 but they're practically the same car.

Both your car and the listing are turbo 4s. The V6 didn't come out til 2005.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

kimbo305 posted:

Both your car and the listing are turbo 4s. The V6 didn't come out til 2005.

well i just have the 2.0 model, so yeah i have an i4 turbo. I just double checked and you're right. I could have sworn at least the viggen had a v6.

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Soiled Meat

Karl Barks posted:

well i just have the 2.0 model, so yeah i have an i4 turbo. I just double checked and you're right. I could have sworn at least the viggen had a v6.

Hell no, the V6 is a hunk of poo poo in older Saabs. Although the newest 9-3 Aeros are pretty drat quick.

The Viggen is a 2.3

Francis Baconator
Jul 11, 2008

Thanks for the avatar man!
The 2.3 is a helluva'n engine. 2.0 is great too. But I've heard nothing good about the V6 engine (sludging, HG problems I think?). Maybe it's just "lol GM sux," but I haven't heard much good about the NG SAABs, though that's not from my own experience. Take it as you will, but they are rebadged Opels. If it feels nice, has a good service record and you can get it for the right price, I don't see why you need to run from it if it doesn't have that lousy V6.

bung
Dec 14, 2004

The new coil for cylinder 2 fixed my misfire.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Maybe you guys can help me out. My gf's 1999 9-3 is on its last legs, and she really doesn't want to get another one. She really likes the car's features, of which there are many:
- good lock logic
- automatic lights
- big hatch
- good dash button ergonomics
- overall nice interior design
- nice seats, with heat
- decent power

To some degree, she is one of those people that really reaches for the word 'soulless' when considering modern cars that have similar feature sets. She drove my 07 Camry once and hated how unremarkable it was.

I think her primary desire is to replace the 9-3 (once it dies) with a car that meets most of those features, but has the lowest total cost of ownership, between initial cost and upkeep. Is there another Saab that could do the trick? For reference, since she bought it in 2003, she's replaced the engine once, the turbo twice, the DIC twice, and the SID once.

Francis Baconator
Jul 11, 2008

Thanks for the avatar man!

kimbo305 posted:

Maybe you guys can help me out. My gf's 1999 9-3 is on its last legs, and she really doesn't want to get another one. She really likes the car's features, of which there are many:
- good lock logic
- automatic lights
- big hatch
- good dash button ergonomics
- overall nice interior design
- nice seats, with heat
- decent power

To some degree, she is one of those people that really reaches for the word 'soulless' when considering modern cars that have similar feature sets. She drove my 07 Camry once and hated how unremarkable it was.

I think her primary desire is to replace the 9-3 (once it dies) with a car that meets most of those features, but has the lowest total cost of ownership, between initial cost and upkeep. Is there another Saab that could do the trick? For reference, since she bought it in 2003, she's replaced the engine once, the turbo twice, the DIC twice, and the SID once.
I hate to sound like the resident classic SAAB fag, but I'll offer my $0.02.

In my experience, most of the NG (i.e. GM) SAABs are often unremarkable and oftentimes are unreliable. As you probably well know, they aren't even really SAABs. They're Opels with some SAAB technology stuffed in them. That said, here's my suggestion.

900s are really a driver's car (SPG trim, thank you). They're also very unique, which isn't hard to tell if you've seen one. The interior, though unusual, is well-laid out and thoughtful, as well as comfortable. Overall, a great car if you don't mind owning one made as late as '93 and technically '94. The problem is that you have a car whose engine and chassis will outlive some particularly annoying parts. Primarily, though not made of glass, the transmissions can be particular and, if not maintained well, fragile. Another concern is that the CV boots and CV axle love to leak. Not a big deal, but some people hate that. Finally, since the cars love to run warm by design, you have to be aware of the cooling system.

If that doesn't worry you, then start looking, you're halfway there.

The 9000 is a slightly different animal. It was built on a joint platform between Fiat, Lancia and Alfa Romeo. It handles a bit heavier, is more isolated inside but overall, still a great daily driver for someone who enjoys a car with personality and prowess. With the greater roadfeel and noise isolation, it's not hard to tell it was more geared toward luxury than performance. Even still, if you get a Carlsson/Griffin/Aero version, you will turn that statement upside-down. Since it carries the SAAB thoroughbred 2.3, you'll still want to watch your cooling system, though you can be a great deal more confident.

In my experience, the only real mechanical problem you need to watch out for is the DI cassette. You can greatly prolong its life by using OEM spec NGK plugs, per your owner's manual, gapped correctly and doused with dielectric grease. I've heard of other 9000 owners breaking 200,000 on their original DI cassette by following that advice. Deviate from that at your own risk. Aside from that, the transmission is far more robust and everything seems to be built quite solidly, less prone to failure. The trademark 2.0 engine oil weepage (common and harmless) is less apparent on the 2.3s and there really isn't too terribly much more to worry yourself about. Just be a mindful owner, maintain it and you'll be rewarded. Like most luxury cars, there are loads of options that may need adjustment or replacement here and there, but they're not nearly as failure prone as you may think. Another bonus is that the parts aren't as expensive as you'd be led to believe. There's tons of online parts retailers, and what you can't find there can be usually bought on eBay for cheapo.

Both SAAB-made engines will outlive the car and can survive almost any neglectful owner. They've been known to continue indefinitely without a hitch after being rebuilt for new head gaskets multiple times.

If you want to learn more, visit http://jope.fi/saab/www.quasimotors.com

In short, both cars offer your girlfriend what she's looking for, just in different ways. Both are excellent choices assuming you're willing to wrench on it as needed and she trusts you to do it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Francis Baconator posted:

Both are excellent choices assuming you're willing to wrench on it as needed and she trusts you to do it.

I would own either of those cars happily. But I don't have the wherewithal to work on her cars and she'd prefer a model that is maintain and forget. If the cars are mostly reliable, she might consider it, especially if problems are minor. But something like a finicky cooling system is not something she wants to have to lurking in the back of her mind.

Oh, it'd be nice if the car had airbags, too. Basically if the 9-3 had been more reliable, she'd love it completely.

Francis Baconator
Jul 11, 2008

Thanks for the avatar man!

kimbo305 posted:

I would own either of those cars happily. But I don't have the wherewithal to work on her cars and she'd prefer a model that is maintain and forget. If the cars are mostly reliable, she might consider it, especially if problems are minor. But something like a finicky cooling system is not something she wants to have to lurking in the back of her mind.

Oh, it'd be nice if the car had airbags, too. Basically if the 9-3 had been more reliable, she'd love it completely.
Given that, I'd say 9000 all the way. I pay $17.00 per month on liability for my 9000 because it's so drat safe. It's the safer of the two and has a good number of air bags, though I don't remember where, exactly. It's also got ABS, for whatever that's worth. Best part is, they were made the "SAAB way" up through '98, so you can still find a reasonably-miled one that not terribly old. To be honest, cooling system problems are more of a 900 boogeyman that comes with poor maintenance. The worse that can happen with the 9000 cooling system is a little seepage on the heater core, causing the smell of delicious maple syrup to permeate your cabin a bit. As long as you change the coolant every half decade or so and be sure to change out the t-stat, you're golden. Like I said, everything is more robust on the 9000s.

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Soiled Meat

kimbo305 posted:

Maybe you guys can help me out. My gf's 1999 9-3 is on its last legs, and she really doesn't want to get another one. She really likes the car's features, of which there are many:
- good lock logic
- automatic lights
- big hatch
- good dash button ergonomics
- overall nice interior design
- nice seats, with heat
- decent power

To some degree, she is one of those people that really reaches for the word 'soulless' when considering modern cars that have similar feature sets. She drove my 07 Camry once and hated how unremarkable it was.

I think her primary desire is to replace the 9-3 (once it dies) with a car that meets most of those features, but has the lowest total cost of ownership, between initial cost and upkeep. Is there another Saab that could do the trick? For reference, since she bought it in 2003, she's replaced the engine once, the turbo twice, the DIC twice, and the SID once.

Boy, that 9-3 had a lot of problems, far more than I usually hear about. I definatly wouldn't get an older SPG or 9000 and unless you are thinking about a later 9-3 or 9-5 I wouldn't recommend a Saab at all. Especially if you aren't wanting to diagnose/resolve your own problems.

Edit: I'm going to suggest a 9-5. Larger and more powerfull than the standard 9-3 and they ran that car for...I think 10 years so there are parts aplenty. More room and simmilar gas mileage to boot.

Mcqueen fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 12, 2010

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Mcqueen posted:

Boy, that 9-3 had a lot of problems, far more than I usually hear about. I definatly wouldn't get an older SPG or 9000 and unless you are thinking about a later 9-3 or 9-5 I wouldn't recommend a Saab at all. Especially if you aren't wanting to diagnose/resolve your own problems.

While it was pretty unreliable, most of the problems it had are not unusual to the 9-3. It just had a hot streak on them.

quote:

Edit: I'm going to suggest a 9-5. Larger and more powerfull than the standard 9-3 and they ran that car for...I think 10 years so there are parts aplenty.

did the 9-5's 2.3 engine have any of the issues the 9-3's did?

ssh
Dec 9, 2001

by elpintogrande

kimbo305 posted:

did the 9-5's 2.3 engine have any of the issues the 9-3's did?

The B205 & B235 were not without their issues; sludging being the most common from '98 to '03. Make drat sure you get the PCV update if you decide on one.

That said, I have 167k on my 2K 9-5, and other than a general rebuild and a replaced turbo (former owner hosed it and started to sludge), I've had zero complaints other than the little 'click' in the vents in the console, and the ever-common SID pixel problem.

sndgeek
Aug 7, 2007
ears of gold
reposting from the 'Nobody Wants Saab' thread to garner any interest.

SoCal Saab Crew running a 'Save Saab' ride this Sunday the 17th from LA -> SB.

sndgeek posted:

Sign up here: LA Saab Club Ride

Update: Itinerary posted.

Google Maps link
Start in LA at La Cienega and the 10. Head West to PCH and up the coast to Point Mugu, then up and away to 101 thru Solvang and end up in Buellton at The Hitching Post (famous location in Sideways). The Sideways car will make the drive as well.

sndgeek fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jan 13, 2010

Isaac Asimov
Oct 22, 2004

Phrost bought me this custom title even though he doesn't know me, to get rid of the old one (lol gay) out of respect for my namesake. Thanks, Phr
Saabaru checkin in :smug:

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
Since people are in here talking about Saabs, can anyone give me a list of things to watch for on my 2000 93 SE. I bought it for my wife and she is in love with the car. It has 100k miles on it and overall is in good shape for a 10 year old car. I just use mobil 1 high mileage and haven't had to do much work of note on the car.

Petekill
May 14, 2005

Where's Hammond?
Well I'll call him!

n8r posted:

Since people are in here talking about Saabs, can anyone give me a list of things to watch for on my 2000 93 SE. I bought it for my wife and she is in love with the car. It has 100k miles on it and overall is in good shape for a 10 year old car. I just use mobil 1 high mileage and haven't had to do much work of note on the car.

A lot of it has been mentioned throughout this thread. Be sure to look for any signs of sludging, these engines were somewhat notorious for that, my friend's 2000 9-3 blew the engine at 80k miles because of sludge. If it hasn't yet, the DIC will probably die soon. Costs 300 bucks and takes all of 5 minutes to replace. The SID will suffer from cancer (i.e. pixels start to disappear). I'm not sure what else are major failure points of these cars. I've had a pretty positive experience with mine, the fuel pump dying was the only major hassle I've had with it. Other than the aforementioned fuel pump, and a wheel bearing, I've only replaced wear items on it and changed the oil regularly.

dodatron
Dec 19, 2004

lambda equals h times c over E, bitches
Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't buy a 2006 9-3 Aero Sportcombi?

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2006-Saab-9-3-AERO-Wagon-REDUCED-TO-SELL-THIS-IS-A-DEAL-W0QQAdIdZ179737809

Took it for a drive a couple weeks ago - its been for sale for a long time, and the price has gone from $14,000 to $10,999. Spoke to a Saab dealer tech, and he said they are great cars, any other input would be great.

What kind of things can I expect to have to deal with?

blindjoe
Jan 10, 2001
If I need a new engine for a 2002 9-5 2.3t wagon, where do I get one for a reasonable cost? I drained the oil of my new car and it was full of metal, and the oil light comes on at idle once the engine is hot. I replaced the sender, cleaned the oil pickup (where I found a large flake of metal) and the oil light still comes on.

The seller sold it to me as having a bad sender, and I believed him, for some reason. It has one of those oil pressure gauges on the oil filter, and it didn't show a pressure drop, but the metal in the oil kinda takes steam out of the "the engine is still ok" theory.

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Soiled Meat

dodatron posted:

Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't buy a 2006 9-3 Aero Sportcombi?

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2006-Saab-9-3-AERO-Wagon-REDUCED-TO-SELL-THIS-IS-A-DEAL-W0QQAdIdZ179737809

Took it for a drive a couple weeks ago - its been for sale for a long time, and the price has gone from $14,000 to $10,999. Spoke to a Saab dealer tech, and he said they are great cars, any other input would be great.

What kind of things can I expect to have to deal with?

I have experience with an '08. Its a very nice car and for that money you should have purchased it 5 minutes ago. The three things I don't like about the car aren't big issues, the front tires wear exceptionally fast, faster than my Viggen and I was under the impression tires couldn't wear faster than that. Also, the engine gurgle can get a bit tiresome on long drives, kind of like the VQ in a 350Z. Lastly, the auto in these cars is horrible and constantly hunts for gears, a non-issue for you. Get this car.

SplitDestiny
Sep 25, 2004
I'm interested in later model 2.0 9-3s like this http://www.saaboftroy.com/VehicleDetails/537826193

For this fully equipped model, they want close to 15k. Edmunds puts the car around the same price. What would be a good price to shoot for and what else should I know about these cars?

ab0z
Jun 28, 2008

by angerbotSD
due to idle curiosity and a slow work day, I find myself wondering about the Ignition cassette failures, and if it is possible to repair the failed units.
Has anyone heard of this being possible?

sndgeek
Aug 7, 2007
ears of gold

ab0z posted:

due to idle curiosity and a slow work day, I find myself wondering about the Ignition cassette failures, and if it is possible to repair the failed units.
Has anyone heard of this being possible?

there are no serviceable parts in the DI Cassette. Trust me, I ruined one by looking.

ab0z
Jun 28, 2008

by angerbotSD
So what exactly is contained in there, and which part fails?

Captain Crunk
Jun 19, 2005
Lurking for 2 years...
I think if you were so inclined to you could take two half-working DICs and make one working one. It'd be messy though, as they're filled with oil; and I think they may have some capacitors in them so shocking yourself could be an issue. I'd try, but I don't have the time.

For all those considering a Saab now, I'll say I love my 9-3 and the reality is the NG900 is a rebadged Opel, yes. But we didn't get that Opel stateside so it's still unique, and very Saab. I posted this in the other thread about common issues with these cars:

As far as reliability goes for the guys who asked they're pretty good except within 5K miles at 120K the following fails (always):
-Fuel Pump (replace it yourself, cut a hole in the floor. Not kidding, cost me 20bux for a junkyard pump and took 2 hours)
-DIC - You're screwed, they're $200 used. Try and find a nice one with recent date code.
-CPS - hard to replace because of the exhaust, but doable
-Check for engine sludge - drop the oil pan, and exhaust (do the CPS now) and clean out the pickup screen
-Serp belt and pulleys
-SID pixels die, a repair costs $50 so isn't terrible.

Cars with T5 engine management ('96-'99) don't have as many sludge issues as those from '00 on up.

ab0z
Jun 28, 2008

by angerbotSD
Thanks for the info. The more I think about it, the more I want to find an un-crunched one of these cars with a manual trans, redo a couple bushings, do ball joints etc, put some sport springs on it, and just enjoy a decent car with a nice (for me) interior and reasonable highway manners.

localized
Mar 30, 2008

Captain Crunk posted:



As far as reliability goes for the guys who asked they're pretty good except within 5K miles at 120K the following fails (always):
-Fuel Pump (replace it yourself, cut a hole in the floor. Not kidding, cost me 20bux for a junkyard pump and took 2 hours)
-DIC - You're screwed, they're $200 used. Try and find a nice one with recent date code.
-CPS - hard to replace because of the exhaust, but doable
-Check for engine sludge - drop the oil pan, and exhaust (do the CPS now) and clean out the pickup screen
-Serp belt and pulleys
-SID pixels die, a repair costs $50 so isn't terrible.

Cars with T5 engine management ('96-'99) don't have as many sludge issues as those from '00 on up.

I have heard a lot about cutting a hole in the floor to access the fuel pump, but where exactly would I cut the hole? My fuel gauge is stuck at 1/4 of a tank, and the PO said that it did that after they replaced the fuel pump a few thousand miles ago.

I am also about to turn 120k :downsgun:...

Francis Baconator
Jul 11, 2008

Thanks for the avatar man!

localized posted:

I have heard a lot about cutting a hole in the floor to access the fuel pump, but where exactly would I cut the hole? My fuel gauge is stuck at 1/4 of a tank, and the PO said that it did that after they replaced the fuel pump a few thousand miles ago.

I am also about to turn 120k :downsgun:...
I'm not sure about the 9-3, but all the SAABs I've owned have a sealed hole in the floor of the hatch area that goes right into the tank. However, I don't know anything about the NG SAABs.

localized
Mar 30, 2008

Francis Baconator posted:

I'm not sure about the 9-3, but all the SAABs I've owned have a sealed hole in the floor of the hatch area that goes right into the tank. However, I don't know anything about the NG SAABs.

Well this would be on a 1996 NG900SE, so I can take a look when its light enough out, but other than that I dont want to cut a bunch of random holes in my floor looking for the fuel pump...

ssh
Dec 9, 2001

by elpintogrande
Where'd you get an SID repair for $50?

Time to take the beasts in to get them checked out - my 2K's T7 isn't up to date and only one guy I know of locally has a Tech2 w/ goodies and can flash me up. Thinking of going all Stage 1 minus the turbo on it.

I think I somehow fried my brakes on my 2K8. They always, always squeak for the forst few pumps even with clean, topped off fluid w/ no leaks. I have under 10k on this set, but this car's harder to stop than the 2K, and all I replaced on that were the back pads and rotors. All looks OK, but beyond my ability to further diagnose from here. Grr.

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Soiled Meat

ssh posted:

Where'd you get an SID repair for $50?

Time to take the beasts in to get them checked out - my 2K's T7 isn't up to date and only one guy I know of locally has a Tech2 w/ goodies and can flash me up. Thinking of going all Stage 1 minus the turbo on it.

I think I somehow fried my brakes on my 2K8. They always, always squeak for the forst few pumps even with clean, topped off fluid w/ no leaks. I have under 10k on this set, but this car's harder to stop than the 2K, and all I replaced on that were the back pads and rotors. All looks OK, but beyond my ability to further diagnose from here. Grr.

Sure you didn't get some air in the lines when you were changing the fluid?

Captain Crunk
Jun 19, 2005
Lurking for 2 years...
Here is a howto for the fuel pump replacement:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119759&highlight=fuel+pump+hole

and another example:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61165&highlight=fuel+pump+hole

It's pretty strait forward and I know it saved me a lot of time on the replacement. If you do break the yellow tabs get a new assembly as the hoses won't hold themselves and WILL splash fuel all over the underside of your seat.

Disciple of Pain
Dec 4, 2005
So, I just turned down buying two Saab 96s, one is a 63 bull nose with a two stroke. The other is a 69 V4. Neither has anything but small surface rust and worn paint (although the 69 has a dent in the left rear fender), the interior and all parts are intact but have been outside since the 80s, so the interiors are probably kinda funky.

Both of them ran when parked, but the 2 smoker probably needs a rebuild as it was 'losing power' when it was parked.

$600 for both ASKING price. :v:

I'm just too busy with my business and work right now, plus all my storage places are full... If anyone is interested I can give you the email of the guy...

ssh
Dec 9, 2001

by elpintogrande

Mcqueen posted:

Sure you didn't get some air in the lines when you were changing the fluid?

2K8's still the original. 2K was changed and is perfect; I bled and clipped. It's the 'new' car that's having the issues. Again, under 10k on it and it did go up near Canada and back down, but can't find any excuse for it..

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Soiled Meat

ssh posted:

2K8's still the original. 2K was changed and is perfect; I bled and clipped. It's the 'new' car that's having the issues. Again, under 10k on it and it did go up near Canada and back down, but can't find any excuse for it..


I read it that you topped off the fluid in your 2008. Could it be possible that air made its way into the fluid?

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localized
Mar 30, 2008

Captain Crunk posted:

Here is a howto for the fuel pump replacement:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119759&highlight=fuel+pump+hole

and another example:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61165&highlight=fuel+pump+hole

It's pretty strait forward and I know it saved me a lot of time on the replacement. If you do break the yellow tabs get a new assembly as the hoses won't hold themselves and WILL splash fuel all over the underside of your seat.

Thanks. The real problem is that the fuel gauge isn't affected by whats in the tank. Would this be in the sending unit or in the float itself?

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