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Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


So I spent the last few days reading through this thread, and I wish I'd done so earlier. I do love Mega Man, after all. Now I'm just going to toss out some random bullet point opinions on the thread and the Mega Man franchise as a whole.

  • The Mega Man X snes games are completely amazing, even X3. X3 has a few flaws, the major one being the ridiculously long "invulnerable times" the bosses got, but it's still great. I hated the PSX transition from day 1. X4 might be ok to play, mostly because the level designs aren't awful, but the horrible anime plot and lovely voice clips are major strikes against it.

  • X5's plot is even worse and its idiocy ruins other things in the game that should be cool, like Dynamo. A cool mercenary who's not a virus-maverick working for the bad guys? Awesome! Oh the bad guys want to DESTROY THE ENTIRE WORLD, eh? That kind of makes his moral ambiguity pointless doesn't it? Not to mention the awful overwrought drama that managed to make the battle between X and Zero just feel stupid. And what's this about the virus making Zero stronger? Huh?

  • Beyond that, the playstation X games just... look bad. The sprites are more detailed, sure, but in a bad way. The feet are loving gigantic for no real reason, they went totally overboard with the lighting effects, the animation looks generally "off", and the Mavericks and levels don't really look anything like Mega Man characters, and it's entirely due to the in-game art, not the designs.

  • I really didn't like how they messed with the classic games' armor-upgrade system, switching between armors while trying to guess which on you need for each stage is stupid, having no-armor X be completely useless is crappy and unfun, and the armors were generally overdesigned and unpleasant-looking, especially ninja X. Plus I liked being able to use a part as soon as I got it, instead of waiting to assemble the complete sets. I really hated how they gave everyone air-dashes from the get-go in the later games, too.

  • I also hate how zero plays in those games. Say what you will about how useless he was in X3, they made his saber seem special in it, and in X2. He used his busters primarily and they were dang good, but when he got the saber out he did REAL damage, it was super powerful. Making it his default weapon kind of ruins what he's about, and necessitated making its damage much more mundane and forgettable. The Zero games struck a good balance since it's actually feasible to rely on the buster in them.

  • Mega Man 8 is the worst game in the original series, mostly because it keeps trying to replace the classic Mega Man gameplay with gimmicky bullshit. But I also levy the same charge as the playstation X games to it regarding the art. It's bad in a different way, but it's still bad. Everyone moves in an exaggerated floppy way, which is totally wrong for a game about robots, and the platforms and enemies just chew up the scenery too much by being overdetailed and faux-3D. The voice acting, weird boss order gimmick, stupid soccer ball weapon and embarrassing plot really don't help.

  • I'm slightly more tolerant of Mega Man and Bass. While it's got some really wonky level design and has the same floppity art style, they're still Mega Man stages and not space shooters or whatever, Bass' gameplay is interesting and most of the bosses have the decency to shut the hell up. Plot's bad but not mind-bendingly bad like 8 or the playstation X games. Plus those CDs are cool.

  • Mega Man 9 and 10 are great games. While I felt 9 was a bit on the cheap side with the instant death gimmicks and not allowing you to shop between wily levels, I think they're both equally awesome games on the whole. I think the only reason 10 gets flack is because it wasn't such a breath of fresh air after a loooooong period without a good Mega Man game.

  • My only issue with both of them is that the design philosophy is based too heavily on aping Mega Man 2. Obviously removing the slide and charge are part of this, and while I could take the charge being removed, I do feel it's become as key to Mega Man's gameplay as getting boss weapons by this point. Removing the slide is just bullshit though. And yeah, you can play as Proto Man to get them, but he takes extra damage and can only shoot 2 pellets and drat it, I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get Mega Man to play like Mega Man.

  • More important though, is MM2's influence on the art direction. The games certainly look good, but they purposely limited the design to be composed of repeating patterns of blocks with contrasting colors and such like Mega Man 2. The later NES Mega Man games have incredible backgrounds with really good use of the NES' limited color palette. Inafune purposely discouraged the artists from doing fancier things that still fit the NES style constraints because he wanted maximum nostalgia appeal to Mega Man 2, which kind of sucks no matter how you look at it. If we get a Mega Man 11 without Inafune, we might see a visual progression in that department.

  • Speaking of Inafune, I feel he's a brilliant game designer but an absolutely horrible writer. All the awful plots I mentioned from X4, X5 and MM8 are his idea. The Zero games do a better job of being story-heavy without hurting your brain, but still have more drama than necessary, and some heinously written characters (Elpizo, Ciel). Plus it seems almost every good story idea in those games was plan B, meaning if he'd gotten his way we'd have gotten a game where X is genuinely evil (bullshit) and other stupid crap.

  • Speaking of lovely writing (again), Mega Man Zero 4's writing is an abomination, and it's part of why it's my least favorite game in the Zero series. The first 3 games create a really good arc, with everything coming to a head at the end of 3, but with enough loose ends to leave the door open for a sequel. Then 4 cocks everything up. The entire plot is that Weil and his robots want to destroy nature. Compared to the relatively complex stuff in the first 3 games, that's horrendous. It's the standard JRPG plot of the big mean evil empire with high tech destroying the peaceful nature loving rebels. Even worse, the plot is basically a retread/homage of Mega Man X5, whose plot was legendarily bad, so it's lovely and reminds us of another lovely thing. X's generals apparently died at the end of 3 so they're not even in this game despite having some interesting character growth and being more interesting than any of the characters 4 introduces. Then Zero dies at the end and I guess the series ends there? Ugh.

  • ZX's plot and setting are the very worst in the entire Mega Man franchise, even worse than the awful bullshit of Command Mission. It really makes it hard for me to get into the gameplay. Everyone's a Mega Man! Anime drama! No relatable characters! Arghlebargle. Again, this is Inafune's "vision". As much as I respect him as a creator, I can't be too sad he's not involved in Mega Man any more. Of course there's still a good chance whoever makes the next Mega Man games will be an even worse writer, if X6, X7, X8 and Command Mission are any indication...

  • Maverick Hunter X is stupid and anime and has dumb graphics and crappy music and rewrites the plot of the first game and the general setting of the X games in the worst possible ways. Ignoring the whole nature of the "virus" thing? Suffering circuit? W-T-F. It missteps just about everywhere a remake could without loving up the gameplay completely.

  • I don't understand why the X games tried to redefine Maverick Status as a social thing starting with X4. It's not like people don't know there's a virus, and everyone who's accused of possibly being maverick but isn't infected by the virus reacts by going "Oh yeah????" and declaring war on humanity and slaughtering innocents, so any possible debate about the term feels completely retarded and forced. The Zero games get it right, but that doesn't retroactively save the writing of the later X games.

  • Command Mission is a Bad Game with only a few good gameplay elements going for it, and a fuckton of unfun JRPG grindfest bullshit, bad designs and lovely story weighing it down. If you like it you are Wrong.

  • Mega Man 4-6 are fine games. They've got some flaws, don't really innovate and the Robot Master designs get pretty silly but they're still great, and shouldn't be despised as much as they are. I don't understand hating on the charge since it's a totally optional thing that just adds different possible strategies to the game. Either you shoot like a gatling or you shoot bigger and stronger attacks far less often. And I prefer when getting hit doesn't reset the charge because that makes it basically impossible to use in some situations and just feels like a kneejerk reaction to people who thought the charge made the game "too easy", which isn't even true.

  • MM7 is fine too. Yeah the game feels slower and more cramped due to the bigger sprites, and splitting up the robot masters into groups of 4 was lame, but neither is a deal-breaker, and you can use a password to bypass the latter. It plays fun, introduces Bass, has some cool Robot Masters. The shop was great, and I love the use of Beat as a "save you from holes" thing instead of an attack widget, and the super adapter is the bomb. The 8-bit demake is great and plays better/faster, but I wish they'd kept the shop and proper Beat, so it could be perfect.
  • I may be alone in this, but I really don't give a gently caress about the Legends games. The platforming and fighting is clumsy and uninspired, not nearly as fun as classic 2D gameplay, it's got that early 3D feel of everything being too far away for no reason and super blocky, and the plot and characters are pretty forgettable. For every Bonne family member there's a thousand really poorly voiced and boring NPC, and that stupid last boss who's basically an early 90s anime. I mean I don't hate the games but I really don't get how people are so attached to them.

  • MMBN is a fine series for what it is, but the more JRPG/gotta catch 'em all elements tend to keep me from getting really into it. Star Force is poop from a butt though.

  • Mega Man Powered up looks fun, I wish I could get a copy. The cutesy art style may have gotten complaints but I could dig it. I hate the new Robot Masters though, especially Oil Man. Any game that lets me play as Guts Man gets automatic props.

  • Mega Man Universe had a hideous art direction (not just the characters: the enemies and stages looked awful, and everyone's movements seemed awkward and slouchy and generally hideous) and seemed to be yet another game that acts like Mega Man 2 is the only good game in the series, so I'm not TOO broken up about it getting canceled, even though it had a lot of fun ideas going for it.

Sorry about all the :words:. I think that's all I had to add... Oh wait, one last thing. You know how people were disappointed at Bass' sprite in MM10, saying he just looked like they took Mega Man's sprite and added fins? Well, I was messing around with sprites the other day and I realized it was truer than I thought.



Sheesh. Even by Capcom standards that's terrible.

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Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


That's the problem, though. Starting with X4 they leave less and less to the imagination, and tell you everything in awful detail. The problem is twofold: one, their fleshed out story is not going to be as good as the implied story we'd get from vague hinting, just like an offscreen monster is less scary once you actually see it, because nothing can top your imagination. Two, the Megaman X story is pretty shaky all around, and the zombie makeup rule applies here: the more you have to look at it, the worse it looks. So by making us look at the story and character development dead on for cutscene after cutscene, the flaws in the storytelling become more and more glaring, because we have time to analyze it, in detail. This is also why modern JRPG tend to feel like they have much worse stories than older ones: they tell you too much of it, for too long, and with nothing to distract you from the story. This means all of it becomes harder and harder to take seriously unless it's a really fantastic story, which almost never happens in video game writing.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


While the Mega Man news are pretty bad lately, it's silly to think of the blue bomber as "dead". Even if (and that is the kind of if I'd use to say "if America stopped relying on a capitalistic economic model") Capcom really did shelve the character for good, look at all the dedicated and talented fans Mega Man has around the world.

He'll never die.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Cock Goblin posted:

Rockman 8FC is very hard. Probably one of the harder Mega Man games I've played.

I really thought the 8-bit version would finally make me enjoy megaman 8, since the 8-bit version of 7 is mostly even more fun than the original, but nope, all the unfun twitchy bullshit from the original is still there, right down to JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE, except now it all seems even harder, if that's possible. I couldn't be hosed to finish a single stage.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Frocobo posted:

Isn't that essentially what the PSP remake of MMX was?

That game missed the mark in every way it could without just being poo poo. It added tons of dialogue, changed plot that made the story suckier, completely missed the point that Megaman X's soundtrack is a rock opera and went for some kind of acid remix feel, messed with the boss designs for the worse, and generally didn't look very good. I mean, it's not a bad game because underneath it all it's still Megaman X, but every single change they made was for the worse, to where it seemed like they missed the point of the original.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Pyroxene Stigma posted:

X6 and X7 are lovely and uninspired because X5 is the last game in the series. Or so it was written.

X5 is pretty awful on its own, to be honest, and it's a pretty awful way to close the X-series. It and MM8 are Inafune's worst contributions, and it made me really sad when the Zero series started trying to tie in to X5 as if it was something worth remembering.

I mean it's nowhere near as bad as X6 so I'm not saying "Thank God Capcom kept making X games after Inafune left!!!" but it is a bad game and an unworthy closing chapter.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Feb 6, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Bonaventure posted:

The sprite size in Megaman 7 is fine, the game was designed with that size in mind and it doesn't interfere with the gameplay. People have just latched on to it as some kind of concrete reason for disliking the game because someone pointed it out to them and they said "that's gotta be it!"

The real reason people don't like the game is because they're dumb; Megaman 7 ruled.*

* last boss excepted

I love Megaman 7, it's one of the best Mega Man games by far and a totally worthy counterpart to the snes X games, but the Rockman 7 8-bit demake makes a strong argument for having more space to move around in. Too bad they felt the shop, intro stage and cutscenes were un-retro, though.

Mega Man and Bass is only fun because the two characters play genuinely differently in a genre where it's difficult to accomplish that. The level design is loving awful. It's just fun to go "YEAH! DOUBLE JUMP AND DASH! WOOOOO" and hold down a button to machine gun fire like you have a turbo controller. Plus the whole "finally playing as Bass" thing. But overall it's not a good game.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Feb 7, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Little late on this but I don't think it's fair to lump Battle Network and Command Mission in the same boat when it comes to bad story. Command Mission was truly atrociously bad, while Battle Network (at least 1 and 2, never did play the others) is just goofy, overly wordy and awkwardly paced. Command Mission was like playing X6 as an RPG, and if it wasn't for the combat mechanics staying serviceable throughout, I never would've bothered finishing it. It's pretty sad when I see people posting about how great and underrated it is. You must be pretty loving desperate for a Mega Man game when you latch on to Command Mission.

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

It probably wasn't worth it for Capcom, but I don't think it'd be that much effort to re-code a Game Boy game from scratch these days.

It's actually impossible to do that. You could certainly recreate the level design and code a decent approximation of the mechanics, but it'd never play quite like the original. You can't reverse engineer a game like that.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 30, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


What're you talking about, a different art style totally justifies fundamentally changing the design of a loving robot without ever addressing the massive discrepancy, and then making GBS threads on a chance to tie everything up.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Sonic might have cranked out a few good games recently, but the Sonic comic has always been and will always be a miserable cesspool with one of the worst fanbases in the history of the medium of comics. I don't really care about the Megaman comic (it's fine if you're a kid but I'm not) but I'm still kinda pissed it's crossing over with what might be the worst ongoing comic in the world.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Himuro posted:

I saw this thread had 55 new posts like out of nowhere. Surely this means an announcement or hint of announcement of a new Mega Man game.

Nope. :smith:

Why would you even think that? That's like seeing a bunch of posts in a final fantasy thread and thinking they decided to stop sucking.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


9's a little unforgiving, yeah, they were going for a forced-retro feel that included the difficulty being ramped up beyond what you'd "normally" make. But it's not impossibly hard, it just takes practice and determination. 10 is a little more balanced, obviously.

E: please nobody post about how they found 9 really easy and don't get what the big deal was

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


LemonLimeTime posted:

This makes me sad it isn't for mac. :smith:

How much can a laptop from the XP era dedicated to playing indie games that are never on mac really run you? C'mon son, get in the game.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Mr. Maltose posted:

The real reason Dr. Cain isn't involved is because he's a lovely robot scientist.

The X games took a huge nosedive in storytelling, art style and gameplay once he left the series so he must have had something going for him.

Anyway, to get off the topic of Capcom taking a poo poo on Mega Man's grave, I found something that floored me while reading up on the NES mega man titles on the Mega Man Wiki. We all know about the awful and hilarious early American box art, but did you know Europe and Germany had their own box arts for the first 3 games?

And this is what they looked like:






:aaa:

That Mega Man 3 box art is the greatest thing I've ever laid eyes on. The Robot Masters and Mega Man are all extremely cartoony and pretty much in the art style of the japanese box art, but with slightly less anime shading, and then there's this HUGE loving towering hyper-realistic Wily head looming in the background like Big Brother. Holy crap I cannot get over how awesome it is.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Is anything supposed to happen when you collect all 4 blue squares in Day in the Limelight 2? I collected the last one and exited the stage and nothing really happened. Dr. Light acted like I was gonna get something really sweet...

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


I wish these Robot Masters/Doc Robots had weapon weaknesses.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


greatn posted:

Well I got the source and it's pretty understandable, but I don't have game maker. I can buy it when I get paid next week. Is the 35 dollar version going to do or shall I need the 99 dollar one with all the modules?

I definitely recommend going pro, and even then you're going to want some third party add-ons if you plan to do anything fancy at all with the sound and some of the more complex parts. Just as an example, Game Maker can't natively alter the volume of MP3s, it can't pause tracks and restart them where they were (for example if you want to have the music stop when you pause and resume when you unpause) and it also has a delay when detecting one music track has ended, so you can't tell it to start a new track once another ends without a noticeable moment of silence.

greatn posted:

They do. For instance air man destroys the cut man doc robot. Quick man is strong against guts dozer doc robot. I definitely noticed regular robot master weaknesses.

I can't figure out how to kill the Ice Man Doc Robot. :(

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


BexGu posted:

Looking at the code greatn how hard would it be to switch in your sprites as a test? I'm curious how hard it would be to put in different Robot Masters.

Yes, let's feature creep the project into an early grave before it even gets started.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


greatn posted:

Swapping sprites seems like it would be trivial, you just replace the resource. I'm not sure how that would affect hitboxes, I haven't looked at how those are formed yet.

Hitboxes are "masks" formed from a particular sprite, not necessarily the one you're using for the object's graphics. I tend to create draw events to handle the actual graphics and use a custom mask as the hitbox, meaning the assigned graphics of any given object are just there to let me know what any given thing is in the room manager. Your methods may vary.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Detective No. 27 posted:

Disregarding the graphics, if it would have come out and done well, it may have led up to a Mega Man X Universe. The graphics might have needed some tweaking, but I kinda like it.

It's not a graphics issue, it's an art direction issue. poo poo was hideous. Everything moved awkwardly and looked off, the Mega Man redesign was wack, and it seemed to be way too reliant on the Mega Man 2 visual direction for the assets, which severely limited the appeal for me as well. It also didn't look like the level design options were very strong. The idea of a modular mega man game where you can play as a ton of characters and make your own stages is great, but absolutely none of the actual game looked good at all.

And I really don't think it makes sense to look at a game and ignore its flaws because its success could possibly lead to another game that would have the same flaws that we'd have to ignore as well because ????

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Ijuuin Enzan posted:

I don't have Android anything, but apparently this just came out.

This looks awesome, I hope it gets released stateside and ported to some kinda console.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


So I'm still playing Day in the Limelight 2, can anyone tell me where the blue thingy is in Magnet Man's Doc Robot stage? It's the last one I need to unlock whatever.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Thanks. I sure wish this game had a walkthrough.

E: Haha, this is the best secret ever.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Sep 18, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Detective No. 27 posted:

Mega Man has reached the Sonic Event Horizon.

Not enough terrible porn of the characters or people defending the game.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Gearhead posted:

That kind of marketing decision reeks of someone who thinks making something shaped kinda like something else will attract the same level of interest.

That's like 90% of game publishers' logic in the current industry.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Mordaedil posted:

It's already a zombie.

I would absolutely not be surprised if this crossover infected the Mega Man comic with permanent undead shittiness. Not that it's currently good or anything.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Sure, but the Sonic comic is the longest-running poo poo comic in the history of the medium.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


BlitzBlast posted:

Hope!

...It's probably going to be a port of Megaman X-Over or something, huh. :smith:

That sounds more like they're saying "Yeah sure we'll probably make a new Mega Man someday", not that theyr'e promising a new game to be announced.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Simply Simon posted:

I also think that considering the circumstances, the Zero trilogy has a goddamn amazing story, one of the best Capcom has ever done. Rather Inti's praise, I guess, but still. And then they made Zero 4 and it STILL has a pretty good story, even more impressive. Usually "ah just do another sequel it means money" games crash and burn horribly, but Zero 4 really is quite good.

I hated Zero 4's story, despite it having a pretty solid conclusion. It was a revisit of the first truly bad X game, and had a really stupid plot involving villains who want to either destroy nature or destroy humans to save nature, I forget which because that's the most stupid, overused japanese plot ever. And then the grand plan is.. to do the same stupid poo poo as Sigma did in X5.

Gameplay-wise, going back to a classic Mega Man stage select screen felt like a huge step back considering the more organic and narratively-driven level progression of the other games. It's definitely the weakest Zero game in my mind.

Captain Invictus posted:

It was a joke. It's pretty hard to have an underwhelming fight when you've got music like that playing during it.

And yet it was. This is the true power of X5!

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


ImpAtom posted:

You can say a lot about RE6's flaws but "lack of ideas" is not even remotely one of its problems. If anything its problem is that it had too many ideas.

Shoving in a bunch of poorly thought out gimmicks to cover for a complete inability to do anything interesting with the classic formula and core gameplay is certainly indicative that they had no ideas for a Mega Man game.

E: I somehow misread your post as being about Mega Man X6

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Dec 1, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Really hope Mega Man X Street Fighter is actually fun. It reuses so many assets it's difficult to judge its quality from that trailer alone, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Squirtle Squadee posted:

So, it's Mega Man 12.

Did I miss 11?

Himuro posted:

Four games. :colbert: 1, 2, 4, and 5. All the rest are terrible.

Man it's one thing to like X4 despite it being the beginning of the end, but if you think loving X5 is better than X3 you might have a medical condition.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


LemonLimeTime posted:

Naw, I'd say X5 was the beginning of the end. I love the heck out of X4, it's close to being as good as X1 and my second favorite in the X series.

X4 is definitely the most playable of the post-SNES games, but it has that embarassing anime storyline with the cutscenes and the voice acting, the greater focus on which really alters the experience(and it starts that weird thing where you never see a single human in the X games), it has the godawful playstation pixel art style that's a gigantic step down from the amazing SNES spritework despite being higher resolution, and the Mavericks/weapons/armors are just not as good as the old stuff. The playable characters are also kind of gigantic, and it makes gameplay feel a lot less free and fast-paced.

It's basically a harbinger of mistakes to come, for me. I also don't really like how Zero plays in any of the playstation games, but that might be personal preference since some people seem to love it. I understand how some people can love X4 despite all these flaws, especially if they played it as kids, but it's honestly hard for me to go back to, something I don't feel about the SNES games, the Zero series, or the original Mega Mans (minus 8) to this day.


Mister Roboto posted:

The people arguing about bad level design clearly never actually played Megaman.

As in, Megaman NES.

Guts man is a terrible level that is a spike/pit hell of trial and error.

So is Iceman.

Mega Man 1 holds up ok, but it is an extremely rough game in a lot of ways, and 2 is a gigantic step forward for the series. There is a bunch of stuff in 1 that never returns in any of the sequels, and most of it for good reason. It's also really unforgiving, in a Mega Man 9 kind of way. There's this strange bug in a lot of the sections where if you're doing a jump and probably aren't going to make it, or step off a ledge, you fall at the speed of light with no chance of recovery, which is very frustrating.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Dec 9, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Himuro posted:

Docking points from X4 because of anime cutscenes and storyline is the height idiocy. It's Mega Man. Who cares. Shoot poo poo, jump over poo poo, steal robot powers, repeat. If a cutscene shows up, jam the start button.

If taking into account things that are part of the game when judging a game is the height of idiocy, then I must be way dumber than I thought. Tell me, if there's a bad stage, should I also ignore it because "It's a mega man game, just blaze through it". Or maybe I should play a JRPG with a painfully bad story because the real action is the combat!

The cutscenes and dialogue sequences shape the narrative of the game, and that narrative and the game's themes inform the goals of what you're trying to accomplish. The game makes a deliberate effort to focus more on story than previous titles and what it has to show for it is all the gameplay existing in a setting that's much more stupid than what came before, and even manages to partially contradict it. Coupled with the wonky voice acting, it definitely gives me a bad impression of the characters I'm playing as and allegedly rooting for. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but it certainly matters.

Mega Man X has a very simple story that's told in about 2 pages of text total, if that. That story manages to be more gripping and interesting than something that totals 15 minutes of cutscenes plus however long the in-game dialogue scenes take. That's bad storytelling, and bad game making.

If the story and those cutscenes are so unimportant and shouldn't be considered when judging the game, they shouldn't have put it in there in the first place. You loving idiot.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Being called an idiot makes me mad. :(

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Yeah I got a little mad last night, musta been tired. All I was trying to say is that bad extensive story and voice acting is something the SNES X games didn't have but that plagued all the latter X games. It isn't even as big a deal as I made it sound, I was just flustered. It just kinda adds to this disconnect I have between the original games and what came after. I don't even mind when the story is ok.

Levantine posted:

It's cool that we're getting something but people really do like things other than 8 bit megaman, Capcom! It would have been cool if the 'Megaman X Street Fighter' had been a play on words and had both X and Zero. SF moves are a natural for the latter.

Come on, Corrupted!

Much as I love the 8-bit retro stuff, I'd be over the moon if we got a retro 16 bit X game(that was good).

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Kinda late on this but the reason Mega Man 5 and 6 are thought of as lame is because they have really bad robot masters. The fights themselves are fine, but with a few exceptions they're just not memorable or cool designs at all. And that counts for a lot more than anyone wants to admit when it comes to these games.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Kanos posted:

Megaman 6's "racial stereotype central" was definitely memorable. Not necessarily good, but memorable.

No doubt. I like how Wind Man sneaks by as a chinese/mongolian stereotype while you're distracted by how racist Tomahawk Man and Flame Man are. And Plant Man and Charge Man are memorable as "what the gently caress" robots, but they're not really anyone's favorites. The worst offender for me is Crystal Man. He is easily the most forgettable Mega Man boss of all time. Well, he might be tied with Star Man, I guess, but Crystal Man has the more boring design.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Mister Roboto posted:

Funny thing about the racial stereotypes of MM6 is that, when you think about it, why WOULDN'T a world of countries competing to make robots put distinctive designs on them? If we COULD make humanoid androids, I guarantee each nation would put its own culturally appealing features in.

Even putting aside how that's not true at all, I doubt most countries would represent themselves with racist cliches based on other people's misunderstandings of their culture.

Yonic Symbolism posted:

Like in Mega Man Zero, you had Cyber Elves, it required thousands of crystals to active ONE, and they loving DIED when you used them and lowered your rank. What the gently caress? If you're going to put grinding and collectables in, it should be fun. Castlevania expands its content by letting you choose spells, weapons, and accessories in any combination, letting you decide what drops to go for or not.

While I understand the logic of giving a higher rank to people who play without upgrades, it really is counter-intuitive as gently caress to punish people for getting upgrades in the successor to the Megan Man X series. It only got worse in later games where not getting an A-rank would lock you out of getting the secret boss weapoons. I mean, once you resign yourself to not using any cyber-elves, it's pretty doable, it just seems stupid to have to choose between cool moves and being at full power.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Dec 16, 2012

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

Oh yeah, I remember that one now.

In other news, Street Fighter X Mega Man is available for download now: http://www.capcom-unity.com/mega_man

Hahahaha! I can see all the workarounds he did to bypass bugs he couldn't figure out how to fix in the level design, like the elevators that strangely stop moving when you land on them.

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Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Vega is really hard. :(

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