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DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Excellent. This is a pretty comprehensive start to the new thread.

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DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Came across something interesting the other day. It appears that at least a small batch of 7.62 Saiga sporter rifles may have been assembled with threaded barrels from another contract. The rifles in question appear to be from a batch manufactured in late 2008-early 2009. I know of only a handful of examples, but they all seem to come from barrels that have notches cut for hand guard retainers, and the chambers do not step the neck of cases. Also, the rifles all had dimpled receivers, though I am not sure if that has any bearing since most of the recent ones have this feature. In all instances the threads were discovered by owners who were removing part of the FSB's barrel sleeve in order to thread the barrel for a brake anyway. The beginnings of threads may be visible in the gap between the barrel sleeve and the barrel at the muzzle.

Even with the reports I've seen, I can't say which rifles would definitely have the threads present. As such, I would probably refrain from modifying the sleeve unless I was already planning to thread the barrel or replace the FSB with a 74 style front site base.





DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jan 5, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Still, a recoil spring assembly guide can be had for only 15 bucks. An Arsenal recoil assembly and recoil spring runs about 32 dollars. I was wondering if you only needed a new recoil spring. Can't really tell without pics to go off of.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


You can usually find them for 5 or so dollars. Interesting thing, the Saiga hunting carbines come with a cleaning kit, but they don't have a compartment in the butt stock to put it in.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


I blame the Zone.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


SykoFreak posted:

The factory muzzle brake on my Arsenal SGL-21 has a slight amount of play in it (I can wobble it a little). Is this normal?

You can also use a bit of teflon tape to help index the brake if everything else doesn't work. Decent stuff is unaffected by the heat of normal shooting. Be sure not to tangle the tape in the threads. Use a good pair of scissors so you get a nice edge on the end. This will make taking the brake off easier if you need to.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Classic Arms has WASR 10s for 300 bucks, but they are uncut low-caps. Every other Rommie I've seen is still near 400.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Gay Black Fascist posted:

After going back and forth on what kind of AK I wanted to get, I finally decided to build one. I know I can get a parts from some site like apex gun parts (any other sites to check out would be helpful as well), and I know I need to get a receiver as well sent to an FFL. Just to clarify, the parts kit can be sent to me, but the receiver must go to the FFL correct? As for what kind it is, NoDak is the way to go right? Tools are also an issue, what all do I need? I know that it looks like NoDak sells them all bent, so I don't need a press to bend it, if this isn't the case I'd like to know. I've also seen rivets/screws mentioned, any idea where to get these or do they come with the kits or receiver? Any links to a building guide would help as well, all the ones I've seen from searching leave a bit to be desired. Also I assume the receiver is plain metal, what should I use/do to finish it (best look/effort mix)?

Yes, you will have to have the receiver sent to an FFL if you purchase a 100 percent receiver from NoDak. Since it is complete, you won't need a bending jig to complete the receiver, but you will need a press to press the barrel out of the forward trunion, and then press it back on once you have riveted the trunion to the receiver. If the kit you purchase doesn't have a barrel or has an American made barrel, you will need the press to install the gas block and the front site block as well. If you get a press, you might as well buy or make a riveting tool as well. Most sites that sell AK parts and flats will usually have a set of rivets for sale so they aren't hard to find.

Getting the stuff needed to start making your own AK is fairly expensive. After buying the kits and all your tools, you will probably spend as much as you would buying a complete rifle. However, if you are fairly handy and really want to, it can be interesting.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Feb 8, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


HoveringCheesecake posted:

Oh man, I just want it to look like an AK-47 or 74 with wood. Where would a person purchase wood furniture for the SGL?

I just want one that has a minimum amount of maintenance, is accurate, and has the best quality barrel possible. (for a reasonable price)

It sounds like the SGL fits that bill, correct?

An Arsenal SGL would definitely fit the bill.

As for wood furniture, there aren't too many companies that manufacture US made wood furniture. Probably one of the better known ones is Ironwood Designs: http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWD4pcstamp.html
Their stock sets are more expensive than surplus European wood, but they have the advantage of counting as compliance parts so that you don't have to swap out other parts, like the magazines, for American made ones.

If your heart is set on a cheaper European stock set, they can be had at sites like Apex gun parts.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


PorkFat posted:

Yeah but will it work with Yugo M70s?

In the Arfcom thread, it says that he wants to try to make one that will work with a Yugo.

Edit: Congratulations Mishaco.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Mishaco posted:

You won't find a cheap aKS-74 folding stock assembly complete to convert your rifle. On top of that, as i have said before it requires a lot of modification to your receiver. First, remove old trunion, thats the easest part. Now, you have to recut the angle of the rear part of your receiver. Folders have a receiver that is slightly angled in like a / mark. Then you have to cut two odd sized spots out for the folding henge and button. Then in the front of the receiver you have to cut 2 holes for the latch and spring. All in all lots of chances to totally gently caress your receiver up unless you know exactly what you are doing and the exact right measurements.


I believe that Osoiman is building an AKS-74U on the appropriate receiver. He just needs a rear trunion.


Mishaco posted:

As for a good price for an AK-74? Really depends what you want. You can usually get rifles built from Bulgarian kits for under $600, $500 on sale, and $400 back when TGI was around with their 'truck gun' special. Russian SGL-31s run $750-800 andhands down are the best quality 5.45 AKs available at the moment.

I think Centerfire Systems was running a special on a Bulgarian kit gun for $449. It's probably a US barrel though.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 20, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


I've seen a couple of places selling them. Off the top of my head, Magnolia State Armory had one for sale. They do usually run $110 and up.
I think ORF used to make one.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Feb 23, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Mishaco posted:

Words.

I agree with you. If you intend to do a full conversion and don't have a lot of the tools already, it's probably cheaper to buy an SGL. Some people just like to have projects to work on though.

One thing I was wondering about, why would the rear trunion on a Saiga need to be modified? It seems to be a normal AK rear trunion. Left alone, it should take pretty much any AK furniture. The rear portion of the trigger guard does extend back and secures to the lower part of the stock in the hunter configuration. When you move the trigger and trigger guard that part is taken care of. Just wondering if I'm missing something.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Mishaco posted:

what sized threads though? They will not be the 24mm ones as found on the AK-74/AK-100 series.

Thing is in Russia they make many different versions of the Saiga...we just get whatever here. I've seen soem saigas come in with pressed on FSBs and gasblocks, instead of pinned. Apparently this is the most modern Russian style of doing it. Probably saves money or something.

Dimples? Again i've seen Saigas come with and without them. Its really just luck of the draw.

They would be 14x1 LH threads. If he does have threads then his barrel might have the slots for a hand guard retainer and the chamber won't step cases.

I'd be interested in seeing what the rifle's build date was. There seem to be a lot of March '09 rifles showing up with threads, but I've heard of some as early as Dec. '08.

If you have some of the barrel sleeve removed, make sure that they don't cut it down to the FSB. The threading would only extend 3/4 to 5/8ths of an inch from the muzzle and the front sight is set back one inch on the Saiga.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Mar 8, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Yeah, I'm guessing that those barrels were from another contract. It makes sense that they would be looking at cost saving measures.

Looks like K-Var is offering a MTK90 Jubilee Series AK-74.





Seems they are asking people to fill out applications to buy the rifles because of their limited number.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/pages.php?pageid=28

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


BaronVonBigmeat posted:

Apparently they are 14mm. I dropped my gun off with Keith at TAC-47 since I'm in Houston, he said they are 14mm. He seemed surprised that it had any threads. Hopefully he knows to not cut it back too far but I'll call just to make sure. Thanks for the tip.

Also, how do I determine the build date from the markings?

The inspection date would be listed in the bluish-green booklet labeled "Certificate" in the upper left hand corner. Page 5 should have a stamp and a date there.

Even if he ends up cutting the sleeve too far back, there are options you could take to fix it. I've seen people fashion spacers to fill in the space left over.
Or since he's already dealing with your canted front sight, you could have him remove it and replace it with an appropriate FSB that has the spring-loaded pin that will help secure a muzzle device. Surplus ones can be gotten from places like Apexgunparts.com and don't cost much at all. K-var has new Bulgarian ones, but they are roughly twice as much. I'm not sure how much your gunsmith would charge for the installation though.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


BaronVonBigmeat posted:

The labor is $30, and he said another $20 would get me an AKM FSB. I didn't know about the spring-loaded pin part, I figured you just screwed it on until its tight. But then how are the gas vents pointed properly, hmm. I'll call him to verify but I'm sure he's probably aware of the issue since he specializes in Saigas.

Yeah, the index pin should make sure everything is aligned correctly. If the FSB he gets for you doesn't have one, it will probably have a place to affix one and they can be had for a couple bucks. Your gunsmith will most likely know what to do.


Got an email from K-var today talking about their SGL-31s. I lost track of things and thought that they already offered these. http://www.k-var.com/shop/pages.php?pageid=22

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


BaronVonBigmeat posted:

CSS also now has a bolt-on two piece handguard retainer for $30, which apparently works well. Dinzag arms is the only other place I've found one, but it's $80 and I've heard it doesn't stay put. Actually CSS is sold out for now, but will be getting some more in. So if you want a more traditional AK setup, either tactilol or wood, you don't necessarily have to buy an SGL or hassle with a press-on retainer.

Then again, you could sell the K-VAR furniture off the SGL, that's something to keep in mind.

By the way, if I went with ironwood furniture, where do you get the sling swivels, buttplate, and associated screws? I don't think I have seen them anywhere.

Probably the most inexpensive way to get them is to buy the Romanian stock set from Centerfire Systems for 12 bucks. It has all the hardware you need on them. The condition might not be the best though. Apex might have some of the hardware, but I don't recall seeing them there recently.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/stkaka04.aspx

Alternatively, if you want brand new pieces K-var sells butt plates, but they are out of everything but the new condition Romanians and the ones for folding stocks. They also carry trap doors for Romanian and Bulgarian stocks.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=282
http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=321
http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=318

I'm sure there are quite a few other places out there, but these are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Edit: pretty much beaten

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Aleksei Vasiliev posted:


Click here for the full 990x644 image.


mounting an eotech on his dust cover

It also appears to be an AKS-74U that someone has mounted a side-rail on? Can't say how well that works if he does have a side-folding stock on there.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


1337_ScriptKiddie posted:

I always just thought that the bashing on the accuracy of ak's was just booo commie gun talk. Thanks for the info.

Fake E:Now that I think about it, 200 meters was the longest increment on the sights of the Saiga so what your saying makes sense.

300m

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Cyrano4747 posted:

Oh, and G43: http://www.centerfiresystems.com/stkaka12.aspx $7.99, full stock set.

5 bucks more gets you the hardware.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/stkaka04.aspx

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


AbdominalSnowman posted:

Also, I was looking at Saigas as an option too, but I'm not a fan of the way the stock looks. I have seen some nice looking conversions so that the Saiga looks more like a traditional AK, but how easy / expensive is it to do? It looks it would just be a simple matter of swapping out the stock and adding a pistol grip, but I am betting it is a lot more complicated than that or everyone would be doing it. I don't even know if it can accept a pistol grip without some serious gunsmithing. I like the Saiga forward grip so I would leave that alone, but I think the rifle would look slick if such modifications weren't too difficult or pricey.

To do a basic conversion of a Saiga does only take a few tools. However, the parts will run you about $100 or so if you decide to reuse your trigger guard and it's best to figure the cost of those parts and your time into any cost estimate. To do a more extensive conversion requires more tools, some more parts, and a fair amount of time and effort. Now that Arsenal offers their line of SGLs, its seems more economically feasible for most to buy a full military configuration Saiga than to make an AK-103 clone in their garage or basement. Really, the best argument for doing a full conversion on your own is that you just want to, and/or you are already outfitted for building AKs from kits.

For those that might like to tinker around with the Saiga platform, there are some online resources for people to learn about how to do a conversion on their own.

This is a step by step guide on doing a basic pistol grip conversion: http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm
Some steps may need to be modified. For instance, most recent Saiga Hunters already have both the pistol grip and FCG holes cut on them.

Here is a video that details the process: http://vimeo.com/2787027

There is a forum for people who do Saiga conversions over at the S-12 forums, and some of them will let you pick their brains. However, it should be noted that they have their fair share of retards and SHTF rifle types who populate almost all of the gun boards outside of TFR.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Apr 26, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Uncle Caveman posted:

Is there more involved than just cutting the thing in half with a chopsaw/angle grinder?

If he puts on a new receiver, he has to push the barrel to install the front trunion. Then he has to push it back in after he has the rivets in. There's also the trigger guard/mag latch and the rear trunion to rivet.

To demill to make a kit, he'd just have to destroy the receiver some way I believe.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 27, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Recently, I have found myself in need of a red dot for occasional varminting and plinking. I ended up getting a Primary Arms M3 copy, and went looking for mounts for it. I'm a fan of the dog-leg design, but I want to see what their Gen2 rail will be and I wanted to get a fairly inexpensive mount to tide me over. Originally, I had thought to pick up a BP-02. However, while looking at Kalinka Optics, I noticed they had in stock a side mount that was designed to hold 30mm Aimpoint-style scopes lower than a BP-02 and centered over the bore. Also, it was only $60. After researching it a bit and seeing some decent reviews, I decided to try it out. If it wasn't something I liked, I could sell it off and only be out a couple bucks. So, I ordered from Kalinka, and promptly realized that I could have ordered the same mount from Primary Arms and had it come in the same package as the red dot.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/mounts...ed-edition.html
http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=505&categoryId=103
The mount will also hold the PK-23 red dot.

I got the mount in the mail today, wrapped in Cyrillic newsprint. My first impression was that it was fairly solid. The single ring holds the scope quite sturdily. It does indeed sit quite low. I am able to co-witness my irons in the bottom portion of the sight picture, which is a nice feature. Looking through the tube normally, I'm also able to keep a cheek weld on the rifle. I can remove and replace the top cover without removing the mount, but it is a tight fit. The only negative so far is that I have to flip up my rear sights every time I want to flip up my front scope cap.

This is a dry-fit so far. I still need to loctite my screws. In the next couple weeks, I'll zero the sight and see how well it does sending some boxes of ammo downrange. If something breaks, I'm not out much. However, if everything works alright, I might have a start to a nice coyote setup.




VV Depends on the varmints.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 12:35 on May 11, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


stangman posted:

Arsenal is only making 20. If the retail is under $2500 I'll be surprised.

I'd heard they were going to be $2800. Just a bit too expensive for me right now.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


GodlessCommie posted:

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/d...e/prod_819.html

What the gently caress AK is this? It's 7.62 and made in 1993. I'm thinking Romanian but they don't make Russian-type folding stocks.

Izhmash still makes an AKMS in wood with the old-style slanted gas block. The one shown on their site now is an underfolder, but it's fairly conceivable that they could offer a model with the side folding stock. Can't really say for sure though.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/akms.shtml

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


STG2000-Cs have a combination fsb/gas block. It would have been nice if they had made better quality hand guards for them. This is just I.O.'s AK-47C which has some of the STG furniture on it.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Gay Black Fascist posted:



I know this is an STG-2000 but where can I get front end furniture like that? I really like the look.

I.O. used to sell spare sets of their furniture off their website. I don't see it listed on their new one, but you could always give them a call. When they first came out the hand guards had a problem with melting under sustained fire. By now they could have fixed that, but I haven't heard anything. They certainly have been finding places to use what they have in stock:

SSG2000


Not quite the same look, but some people have used MP5 hand guards on their Saigas.



Red Jacket's .223 Saiga with MP5 hand guard and AR magwell


It's also possible to modify a G3 hand guard to fit on a .308 Saiga.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


king of the bongo posted:

Doesn't kvar also sell the extended nato (nato +1.25") stocks in polymer?

Yes they do, and I absolutely love mine. They are really solidly constructed.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Right now, anything under $500 is pretty good.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


I agree, the BP-02 is probably the best railed side mount for the AK.

There's also a side mount made by Kalinka specifically for Aimpoint sights.
http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=505&categoryId=103

I'm pretty happy with mine so far. I Red loctited up some of the screws holding the ring to the mount, but it has been holding zero. I kind of wish that they had welded the base of the ring to the mount though. I'm hoping to bring it to the range again tomorrow to check it out some more since I want to run it through it's paces as much as possible to determine how good a mount it is.

I posted about it back on page 39.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) posted:

My first impression was that it was fairly solid. The single ring holds the scope quite sturdily. It does indeed sit quite low. I am able to co-witness my irons in the bottom portion of the sight picture, which is a nice feature. Looking through the tube normally, I'm also able to keep a cheek weld on the rifle. I can remove and replace the top cover without removing the mount, but it is a tight fit. The only negative so far is that I have to flip up my rear sights every time I want to flip up my front scope cap.


If you use a rail, you'll need a mount with one 30mm ring.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Lono19 posted:

I have a saiga 7.62x39 that I'm modifying from stock. UTG Quad Rails, new stock w/ pistol grip, accessories, etc... Is there a substantial difference between the T6 adjustable stock with the pistol grip built in (the one that requires no movement of the trigger and guard), vs the stock w/ pistol grip kit that requires moving the trigger forward on the rifle?

this

vs

this


I don't mind a little extra work, but if the difference is negligible then I'll go with the built in pistol grip...

Can't say that I'm a fan of the intrafuse stocks. To put it nicely, they kind of suck...a lot. The stocks where you leave the trigger in the rear just don't look right, and they aren't anywhere near as solid as a kvar or wood stock. Also, the stock trigger is nowhere near as nice as the tapco, or other replacement triggers.

The process to move the trigger forward is incredibly easy. By following a few guides and videos, and using a dremel, punch, and hand drill, it only took me a little while to do the conversion on mine. I did complicate the process a little bit by going with a military trigger guard, which required that I get a riveting jig and borrow someones press.


http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_1.htm
http://vimeo.com/2787027

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Sep 3, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


What up Saiga sporter buddy.


Are you thinking about doing a conversion, or are you sticking with the factory configuration?

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Cyrano4747 posted:

I'm pretty sure they actually use a lot of Romanian parts.

As I understand it, most non-saiga Arsenal guns are largely Bulgarian.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Nov 8, 2010

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Atticus_1354 posted:

Well one of the most important things for me is a front sight gas block so I can SBR it. Do any Saigas come with that?

No Saigas have one at this time. If you're interested in an SBR and don't want to do any gunsmithing to the barrel, your only real options are a Draco pistol or a "Krinkov". There are a couple other variants that have gas block FSBs, but they'd have to be cut down in the future. Among them is the STG-2000C from Inter-Ordnance. It's basically a Romanian gun with US made furniture which was somewhat lackluster by initial reports. However, I've no idea if the quality of the stocks has improved any. They mostly shoot straight and are fairly inexpensive.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Mishaco posted:

Wrong, Arsenal has a SGL with combo FSB and gasblock. They had them instock today infact when i called them. They only come with a fixed stock trunion at the moment, but in future...

That's good to know. I've never seen it in their catalog before. It should be pretty sweet.

Frankie posted:

If you can't find a FSGB combo, the ace clamp-on one is nice. I have one on my AKbortion.



This is great. I'd seen a Saiga with polymer G3 handguards on it before, but this is the first time I've seen a wood one on an AK. If you're willing to go the used route, they're really cheap too. I think I've seen whole stock sets for 20-30 bucks. I might have to pick one up just to check it out.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Yep. I dig how Primary arms does same day shipping.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


Be aware that those 7-14 dollar brakes do absolutely nothing except look good.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


The Saiga is evolving

After only several months of having the the parts, I converted my Saiga to take 30 round magazines.

By being careful of how much I took off the mag catch, I was able to retain the use of my factory 10 round magazine after a fairly easy modification.

Using just a sharp utility blade, I was able to pare down a detent in the front of the magazine to accommodate the bullet guide I had installed.

Next, I'm going to tackle putting on a muzzle device. I'm leaning toward replacing the fsb so I can mount a working brake with appropriate threads.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Feb 25, 2011

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DAVE!!!(c)(tm)
Feb 22, 2003


incredibull posted:

Aren't the Saiga FSBs press-pinched, no pins?

More recent Saiga FSBs are crimped on by a large press. To remove the fsb I've seen people drill out the dimples which are pressed into the barrel, but some like to use a cutting wheel to cut the whole base in a line parallel to the barrel right over the dimples. Apparently, if you get most of the way through you can pry the two halves apart. Either way, the fsb is turned to scrap.


Most people just trim off the end of the barrel sleeve and thread the barrel for a brake. It's a lot easier to do, but you have to remember not to cut the barrel sleeve back to the fsb because most AK muzzle devices don't have threading that deep. It also looks a bit different.

incredibull posted:


How was the conversion? I'm still considering it as a way in to AKs.

Basic Saiga conversion is pretty simple and can be done with just a handful of tools in a couple hours if you don't throw yourself curve-balls like I tend to do. It isn't the most economical way to get into AKs anymore but it is a fun project and probably the cheapest Russian gun you'll see short of an Arsenal Saiga. Full conversion is a different thing.

incredibull posted:


But personally, I can't stand the Saiga furnutire and will probably have to go wood or KVAR.

To change out the hand guard on a Saiga for a standard one without messing with the gas block requires that you obtain or make a hand guard retainer designed for the purpose.

DAVE!!!(c)(tm) fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 25, 2011

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