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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



Bischoff is such a narcissistic rear end in a top hat that you know he's read that book cover to cover multiple times just to be able to argue all the ways it's wrong about him

He can say whatever he wants about never having seen it lol

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coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Eric Bischoff can't read.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Bought the Nitro book, looking forward to it.

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

I just watched the Booker T-Buff Bagwell Raw match for the first time in ages. It's still pretty surreal.

JR and Heyman bid us farewell from "the WWF portion of Monday Night Raw". Notably, Heyman pleads with us not to blame him, JR, or the WWF for what you're about to see. Shane then comes out to a big ballyhoo but very little crowd reaction, which I find odd because he was fairly strongly received earlier on in the night. It seems like the crowd don't know what to make of the whole thing at all. For all of the things people say about the WWF wanting the segment to fail by putting it on the Pacific Northwest, there seemed to be a lot of WCW signs and cheers at the prospect of a WWF vs WCW dream storyline at the start of the show. But this they do not want.

Shane welcomes WCW commentators Scott Hudson and Arn Anderson, ring announcer Stacy Keibler, and referee Nick Patrick, the latter of whom got the smattering of light boos I like to call "Nick Patrick heat" from the crowd. Before any of them can say or do anything, WWF heel commissioner William Regal shows up with his stereotypical manservant Tajiri. Regal orders Shane to the back and Shane complies, saying that, unlike his father, "he doesn't need to be in the spotlight", and that the show revolves his Superstars, not him. Hudson then welcomes us to "this historic night" and says that Buff Bagwell will be fighting for "the WWF championship".

I love Arn Anderson, I think he's a great wrestler and an excellent promo in his prime. I love the classic forum description of him as basically being like "your dad's tough mate". But a good commentator he is not here. He's so quiet and seems lost. It's such a contrast to JR and Heyman, and not in a good way. Hudson is not that bad but he's also not really good enough to make up for Arn's shortcomings either. Stacy is obviously very attractive, but I do not remember her being this screechy. She gets all the info right though, making her better and more efficient than Michael Buffer.

Then the match starts and it's really slow and bad. Not the worst ever but still. Chunks of the crowd are leaving, others are chanting "Boring", whilst the vast majority either do nothing or start to entertain themselves. Large numbers of them start focusing their attention to elsewhere in the crowd, presumably watching a superior fight breaking out. Buff is almost immediately thrown off his game by this reaction and never regains his focus. He tells people to "Shut up!" despite them not saying anything. Booker doesn't seem too interested either, which is fair enough because even the scissor kick and spinaroonie are met with a prevailing sense of apathy from the crowd.

Then Steve Austin and Kurt Angle (the WWF's two biggest heels) come out to attack Booker, resulting in a no contest. This is fair enough, as the last few shows have seemingly been building to a Champion vs Champion match between a heel Austin and face Booker, but Booker's had no character time other than earlier on in the night when he briefly had a friendly chat with WWF legend Test (who is still dead). Buff feels left out and tries to join in on the beat down, but is completely ignored by Austin and Angle. He just kind of stands around and laughs at what is taking place in front of his eyes. Hudson admonishes Austin, Angle and Buff for ruining the greatest night in the history of our sport, and (in his high and frantic "Vince Russo has swerved us again!!!" voice) asks if Buff has defected to the WWF. Arn, meanwhile, who has been getting worse and worse throughout the match as he finds his "confidence", just starts rambling about the WWF being like "the toughest guy in prison" (?).

As the men all disappear backstage, we randomly shift scene to Vince and Torrie Wilson hanging out in the arena's laundry room. The gag for the evening has been that Torrie is looking for a job in the WWF and Vince is trying to molest her, only to get constantly interrupted by Austin, Angle, and Perry Saturn with his mop. Vince eats off her face and she removes his clothes, threatening to reveal "the big Macdaddy" to the world. When Vince is almost completely naked, Torrie vanishes and in her place a disappointed Linda McMahon appears. Vince comically shuffles across the room with his trousers around his ankles and stumbles into a pile of boxes, as kind/drunk people in the crowd laugh.

Then we're at the arena entrance, where Austin, Angle and Buff are still beating up Booker. They throw him out of the building before Buff starts acting like that annoying kid who used to insist on hanging out with you, and then Austin and Angle beat him up too to what seems like the biggest pop in years. They visibly smile at each other like a pair of frat boys as Raw ends.

They didn't even run out of time see you next time on Thunder. Bad WCW 2/10.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


I've seen a lot of people talking about the Nitro book and I have to say I'm not impressed.

I'm only 60ish pages in, so I'm not going to say it's a bad book but I can make a few observations to anyone on the fence:

It is really poorly written. It feels like college undergrad writing. Lots of really lame transitions and cliches.

The research is not great. For some reason a self published book felt the need to give us a brief history of the WWF and it felt pretty off. Same with some of the other historical details that are thrown in there but are off. (The author mentions newspapers first reporting on wrestling not being on the level in the 30s which is about 70 years off.)

It's super repetitive. We've gotten so many quotes about WCW being the red headed stepchild of the Turner networks. We get it.

I do think it is going to improve and there's some interesting details in here, it's just a let down given some people hyped this up as this great definitive account.

rovert
Jun 10, 2013

ATTENTION HOTLINE FANS!

There is hot news circulating about your favorite or most hated promotion or wrestler, but because of the sensitivity of these scoops I can't talk about them here on Something Awful.

To get the low down exclusive, call my hotline now!


https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing...605965246218240

Say Nothing
Mar 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


Your avatar just reminded me that Ralphus asked for a performers contract... and was given one paying him 75,000 a year.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


MassRafTer posted:

I've seen a lot of people talking about the Nitro book and I have to say I'm not impressed.

I'm only 60ish pages in, so I'm not going to say it's a bad book but I can make a few observations to anyone on the fence:

It is really poorly written. It feels like college undergrad writing. Lots of really lame transitions and cliches.

The research is not great. For some reason a self published book felt the need to give us a brief history of the WWF and it felt pretty off. Same with some of the other historical details that are thrown in there but are off. (The author mentions newspapers first reporting on wrestling not being on the level in the 30s which is about 70 years off.)

It's super repetitive. We've gotten so many quotes about WCW being the red headed stepchild of the Turner networks. We get it.

I do think it is going to improve and there's some interesting details in here, it's just a let down given some people hyped this up as this great definitive account.

Are you gonna/have you read the Pillman book?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


El Gallinero Gros posted:

Are you gonna/have you read the Pillman book?

It's great.

Sionistic
Apr 22, 2008

We don't need your money!



Isnt that what Ballers essentially is?

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


MassRafTer posted:

I've seen a lot of people talking about the Nitro book and I have to say I'm not impressed.

I'm only 60ish pages in, so I'm not going to say it's a bad book but I can make a few observations to anyone on the fence:

It is really poorly written. It feels like college undergrad writing. Lots of really lame transitions and cliches.

The research is not great. For some reason a self published book felt the need to give us a brief history of the WWF and it felt pretty off. Same with some of the other historical details that are thrown in there but are off. (The author mentions newspapers first reporting on wrestling not being on the level in the 30s which is about 70 years off.)

It's super repetitive. We've gotten so many quotes about WCW being the red headed stepchild of the Turner networks. We get it.

I do think it is going to improve and there's some interesting details in here, it's just a let down given some people hyped this up as this great definitive account.

so its about on par with just about every other book about wrestling?

Claytor
Dec 5, 2011


Seams posted:

so its about on par with just about every other book about wrestling?

Well, you know, the thing is, it's just the nature of the beast.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Seams posted:

so its about on par with just about every other book about wrestling?

There's some really good, well researched books on wrestling. The aforementioned Pillman book is excellent and not as eye roll worthy, the Montreal book is a bit hard to read since it is translated into English but it's very well researched, and some of the memoirs are great too.

GokuGoesSSJ3
Apr 15, 2017

You're telling me Peter Parker - Is Spider-Man?

As we all know WCW liked to reuse it's theme songs. For Example:

The Creatures (they were on Halloween Havoc 91 I think, with the RIP Twins grave set)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9NofuN7yFk#t=35s

Psychosis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5cXqOg9aI

My friends and I always get Mysterio's and Malenko's songs mixed up watching these dumb old things but surprisingly they're actually different songs. Any other examples of reused music?
BTW Psychosis and La Parka probably should have gotten a push with like Jimmy Hart as the manager.

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011

Me uni a la Revolucion #RXT


el sabe ...


Goldberg used Pat Tanaka's music in WCW.

Kurt Angle's theme is a variation of The Patriot's theme.

Brodus Clay as the Funkasaurus used Ernest Miller's theme.

GokuGoesSSJ3
Apr 15, 2017

You're telling me Peter Parker - Is Spider-Man?

rare Magic card l00k posted:

Goldberg used Pat Tanaka's music in WCW.

Kurt Angle's theme is a variation of The Patriot's theme.

Brodus Clay as the Funkasaurus used Ernest Miller's theme.

I had to look up who Brodus Clay is but that's obviously Flashlight by Funkadelic. Cat is James Brown. I'm assuming this guy wasn't anywhere near deserving of this awesome theme song, too bad it's good.

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011

Me uni a la Revolucion #RXT


el sabe ...


GokuGoesSSJ3 posted:

I had to look up who Brodus Clay is but that's obviously Flashlight by Funkadelic. Cat is James Brown. I'm assuming this guy wasn't anywhere near deserving of this awesome theme song, too bad it's good.

I meant Ernest Miller's WWE theme, not his far better WCW theme.

GokuGoesSSJ3
Apr 15, 2017

You're telling me Peter Parker - Is Spider-Man?

rare Magic card l00k posted:

I meant Ernest Miller's WWE theme, not his far better WCW theme.

Ernest Miller was in the WWE? Oh man next thing you're going to tell me is Norman Smiley was a double hardcore champion or something.
Edit: Oh hey here's Taz saying Japenese people eat cats during an Ernest Miller WWE match:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzKyzNHX36I
I was wrong it's jungle boogie more than flashlight.

GokuGoesSSJ3 fucked around with this message at Oct 5, 2018 around 08:23

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


GokuGoesSSJ3 posted:

As we all know WCW liked to reuse it's theme songs. For Example:

The Creatures (they were on Halloween Havoc 91 I think, with the RIP Twins grave set)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9NofuN7yFk#t=35s

Psychosis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5cXqOg9aI

My friends and I always get Mysterio's and Malenko's songs mixed up watching these dumb old things but surprisingly they're actually different songs. Any other examples of reused music?
BTW Psychosis and La Parka probably should have gotten a push with like Jimmy Hart as the manager.

WCW had access to all the music libraries that Time Warner published and anything that’s not a Jimmy Hart composition or a real song was generic music used on TV and in ads.

WWE did this from time to time as well - the Hardy’s theme and the first Dudley’s theme was all generic licensed music.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005



Fallen Rib

And what makes that great is that on WWE Network they don't have the rights to some of the lovely generic music so they had to dub and if you watch like, Superbrawl 1998, Jericho is walking out to "BREAK THE WALLS DOWN!"

And yeah I could never tell the difference between Mysterio and Malenko's music or Luger's and Meltzer's

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

sprinkles


Dynamite Dave headlining Starcade was a risk that totally paid off.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.



1st AD posted:

WCW had access to all the music libraries that Time Warner published and anything that’s not a Jimmy Hart composition or a real song was generic music used on TV and in ads.

WWE did this from time to time as well - the Hardy’s theme and the first Dudley’s theme was all generic licensed music.

I think on Jericho's podcast he was talking about how people would hear WCW music on like, ESPN highlight reels and such.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



Like Harlem heats theme being in a kids in the hall sketch.

Takuan
May 6, 2007


I remember hearing Hardcore Holly's theme as background music to my local radio station's sports reports.

Sionistic
Apr 22, 2008

We don't need your money!


The last Botchamania revealed that The Shield/Roman's music is just Tazz's wwe music slowed down

The American Dream
Mar 1, 2007
Don't Forget My Balls

Hardy boyz theme is on the state dvd.

MTV has to re do all the music to generic licenses before they could release it on dvd.

I laughed my rear end off when I heard Harlem heat on kids in the hall.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

pathetic little tramp posted:

And what makes that great is that on WWE Network they don't have the rights to some of the lovely generic music so they had to dub and if you watch like, Superbrawl 1998, Jericho is walking out to "BREAK THE WALLS DOWN!"

And yeah I could never tell the difference between Mysterio and Malenko's music or Luger's and Meltzer's

I believe in the case of Jericho, his original music was so blatant a ripoff of Evenflow that they just couldn’t get away with it in an age where people actually notice these things. (Ditto DDP and Smells Like Teen Spirit, and when they gave Prince Iaukaea a “The Artist Formerly Known As” gimmick it came with the most blatant Purple Rain steal you could imagine.)

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



I do love the SELF HIGH FIVE part of DDP's WCW theme though

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQVtFWAGE8w

Here's an interesting video WWE themselves put out this year showcasing 9 theme changes over the years

lol at Edge's theme being called "Metaligus" and I didn't know Stone Cold changed his theme

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine


He had like 5 different themes in 2001 when they were trying to find a song that would go with his heel character without getting a face pop in the beginning.

The American Dream
Mar 1, 2007
Don't Forget My Balls

Mr. Carlisle posted:

I do love the SELF HIGH FIVE part of DDP's WCW theme though

Every time I hear smells like teen spirit I do a self high five.

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave
Jan 9, 2006

Popping up from out of nowhere...

The American Dream posted:

Every time I hear smells like teen spirit I do a self high five.

Every time I think about a self high five I always think about the Barry Horowitz patting himself on the back gimmick.

GokuGoesSSJ3
Apr 15, 2017

You're telling me Peter Parker - Is Spider-Man?

It's crazy looking back to think how over wrestling was in general during the wcw days. It's basically back to a fringe thing now but it was pretty mainstream then. I mean Bischoff fought Jay Leno in a main event ppv match.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Wrestling as a mainstream thing was doomed to fall because it stayed sooo 90s as everything else moved on. WWE to it's credit did try to evolve eventually, but chasing the Russo high resulted in a decade plus of Russo lows.

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012

*laughs at u*


wrestling always tends to be behind the times but in this age of memes and everyone being on twitter the indies are more current and contemporary imo

syzpid
Aug 9, 2014


Wasn't WCW taken to court over one of the theme songs, and the judge decided they changed just enough that it wasn't the same song?

I think it was Dave Grohl over DDPs song, and Grohl lost the case. It was the one thing Jimmy Hart was good at, given his background.

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012


I still think a Jim Johnston/Jimmy Hart concert where they play nothing but wrestling themes would sell a shitload of tickets

If people can sellout arenas to watch video game songs get performed live, they'd surely do the same to hear wrestling themes

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


I'm starting to move towards the Nitro book being bad rather than just flawed. He spends more time transcribing Rick Rude's promo on Nitro after his jump than he does on the Hart/WCW negotiations. He also completely misrepresents the WWF's financial picture in 1997 and makes it seem like Vince wasn't having financial difficulty when he told Bret he was breaching the contract. He ignores key, obvious details that run counter to this and misses other key details from the screwjob. It's really bad for a book people are treating as well researched.

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