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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Q_res
Oct 29, 2005

We're fucking built for this shit!
That's a loving fantastic low-key burn on Kane and I just want you to know that I appreciate it.

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rujasu
Dec 19, 2013

WSAENOTSOCK posted:

There was a time when the dream card for WCW and WWF was:

Goldberg Vs. Austin, champion vs. champion, and also they kinda' look alike.

Sting Vs. Undertaker, because they're both spooky and play theatrical mind games.

and DDP vs. The Rock, People's Champion vs. People's Champion.

That card would've done 2 million loving buys.

DX vs nWo in a 20 man tag match

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005

Coaaab posted:

okay everyone, how would YOU have booked the finishes?

Is this a one off show?

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011

Coaaab posted:

okay everyone, how would YOU have booked the finishes?

Austin over Goldberg where Goldberg spears into the timerkeeper's area or the post hard enough (gimmicked) to visibly move it.
Sting over Undertaker after Undertaker is turned on by *rolls dice* Mideon and Viscera???, Sting and the Undertaker team up to murder Mideon and Viserca with their moves and pose together.
DDP over the Rock with the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere after the Rock has control for the majority of the match.

FUCKFACE MORON
Apr 23, 2010

by sebmojo
Confession: when Brock Lesnar debuted on WWF TV my initial reaction was "who did he wrestle as in WCW?"

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

Rusty Shackelford posted:

Is this a one off show?
do one as a one-off and then another where you had to continue the story from there

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016

Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!
It's hard to gauge the actual popularity of some WCW stars from the pre-Nitro era because it cannot be exaggerated how incompetent the live event promotion side of the company was before Zane Bresloff was lured away from the WWF. The stuff about Don Glass being staggeringly bad at his job (running San Antonio on Easter Sunday!) may be a Cornette narrative, but like a lot of Cornette historical stuff, it's also true. Business went up almost immediately after Bresloff started with the company, and the house show business boom started with the first program to have any real heat to it, Flair vs. Savage. The house shows were also terribly booked, having oddly tenuous connections to the programs on TV every week.

IIRC (at a more sane hour tomorrow I can consult Matwatch to confirm and gather additional details), Sting broke the record for most watched match in the history of cable at least twice, vs. Flair at Clash 1, the match that made him a star, and vs. The Black Scorpion at Clash 12 during his title reign. (The latter was preceded by a Luger-Flair U.S. Title co-main but still outdid it.) The big record-breaking weekend of TBS shows in February 1990, while headlined by Flair-Pillman and Flair/Arn-R&R, was the first weekend of fresh shows since the Horsemen turned on him at Clash 10 (the previous week was taped before the Clash, only had a couple canned promos, and didn't address his injury). And WCW always did solid PPV business until the larger U.S. wrestling recession happened.

My point being: Sting clearly had a big fanbase. But because WCW was so weirdly mismanaged in the areas that would historically be considered good gauges in wrestling (well, and in general), you can't really point to him being a traditional "draw" before 1997.

Also, something that really needs to be discussed more is that WCW would be a runaway financial success if transported into the 2020 TV landscape. Even if you tried to weight the TV ratings to be relative to what we're seeing now.

rujasu
Dec 19, 2013

davidbix posted:

The stuff about Don Glass being staggeringly bad at his job (running San Antonio on Easter Sunday!) may be a Cornette narrative, but like a lot of Cornette historical stuff, it's also true.

Haha, I've never heard this story before, but I can absolutely hear Cornette yelling "SAN ANTONIO ON EASTER SUNDAY!" in my mind.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006


🎵 I'm blue
Yeah I'm a blue Shrek, guy
Step a foot in my swamp
And you're gonna die 🎵

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007



gat dang

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument

WSAENOTSOCK posted:

Starrcade '98 is when the deadly wound was inflicted. Teenage WSAENOTSOCK didn't notice the wound until the fingerpoke, and didn't see the blood pooling until these very events.

I didn't put the pieces together until the PSP synctube rewatch. That one episode of Nitro is the exact point where WCW jumped the shark.
Starrcade was the ramp, the Fingerpoke was the Foz building up speed towards the ramp, but that one Nitro is where he took flight.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006


🎵 I'm blue
Yeah I'm a blue Shrek, guy
Step a foot in my swamp
And you're gonna die 🎵

ChrisBTY posted:

I didn't put the pieces together until the PSP synctube rewatch. That one episode of Nitro is the exact point where WCW jumped the shark.
Starrcade was the ramp, the Fingerpoke was the Foz building up speed towards the ramp, but that one Nitro is where he took flight.



:confused:

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 26 minutes!
I would've loved to see a Sting/Undertaker feud back in the 00s, even if the matches weren't great.

Q_res posted:

It's really stupid because they should have remembered how much nobody gave a gently caress about DDP when he was a heel pre-NWO. He was basically an anonymous mid-card heel until he got the offer to join the NWO. I think that was the first time someone told the NWO to gently caress off and actually got one over on them. The fans ate it up and he rode that and a cool finish to being over as gently caress.
True, but how could you expect WCW to figure out that they don't need more Jeans Dad heels?

davidbix posted:

My point being: Sting clearly had a big fanbase. But because WCW was so weirdly mismanaged in the areas that would historically be considered good gauges in wrestling (well, and in general), you can't really point to him being a traditional "draw" before 1997.
My take on the timeless over v. draw debate is that if the audience consistently likes a guy, but they're not a draw in any way, it's management's fault. (Or due to things that are largely beyond anyone's control, like injuries.)

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Feb 26, 2020

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer
wakka wakka *hits jukebox*

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010
Regarding Sting it definitely didn't help that

1)He tore his ACL on his coronation win over Flair

2)They portrayed him as the dumbest face in wrestling history

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 26 minutes!
2) was cool when he was teaming with Luger but otherwise, yeah, very bad.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010

Halloween Jack posted:

2) was cool when he was teaming with Luger but otherwise, yeah, very bad.

I'd seriously like to know how many times he got turned on, has to be close to a dozen

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


After a while, "partner turns on Sting" had to just be an intentional running gag. It was up there with Flair always getting caught trying to go to the top rope.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 26 minutes!
Oh poo poo, I had forgotten about that. I didn't know much about wrestling history when I watched Flair in WCW, so I just kept getting incensed every time I saw him climb the turnbuckle, wondering why he does that in every match when he's not a flier.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Halloween Jack posted:

Oh poo poo, I had forgotten about that. I didn't know much about wrestling history when I watched Flair in WCW, so I just kept getting incensed every time I saw him climb the turnbuckle, wondering why he does that in every match when he's not a flier.

It's honestly one of the best running gags. Someone in the favorite tropes thread mentioned he actually hit a couple elbow or leg drops, but would only be successful in the rare instances he was working face. Heel Flair got caught every time.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 26 minutes!
I read an interview, years ago, where he said he actually won his first match with a cross-body off the top. Blew my mind.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer
That’s how he won his first world title against Harley Race iirc.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006


🎵 I'm blue
Yeah I'm a blue Shrek, guy
Step a foot in my swamp
And you're gonna die 🎵
I seem to remember a match on Nitro or Thunder in 2000 or so where Flair actually hit the double axehandle and for some reason the commentators barely noticed.

FUCKFACE MORON
Apr 23, 2010

by sebmojo

Pope Corky the IX posted:

I seem to remember a match on Nitro or Thunder in 2000 or so where Flair actually hit the double axehandle and for some reason the commentators barely noticed.
Probably because by that point the commentators checked out since they knew WCW was on its deathbed

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

Is this basically the same as the bit in WWF with Warrior and Sherri, where Sherri motioned to go down on Warrior as a means of coaxing him onto her and Macho Man's side and her enthusiastically turned her down?

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I liked the old mothership ramp, tbh

shiksa
Nov 9, 2009

i went to one of these wrestling shows and it was... honestly? frickin boring. i wanna see ricky! i want to see his gold chains and respect for the ftw lifestyle

mein gott

FUCKFACE MORON
Apr 23, 2010

by sebmojo

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Is this basically the same as the bit in WWF with Warrior and Sherri, where Sherri motioned to go down on Warrior as a means of coaxing him onto her and Macho Man's side and her enthusiastically turned her down?
IIRC they were running an angle where every week Sting would receive a gift from a mystery person leading up to Clash of the Champions. What you're seeing in that gif is the final gift being Madusa belly-dancing to hypnotize Sting before he got clipped in the knee by Luger.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

shiksa posted:

mein gott

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


I forget what match it was for, but there was an amazing sting entrance with Luger, where the whole time he's walking out behind sting, he's got this evil grin and is winding up like he's going to turn on him right there, then if Sting turned around to look at him, he immediately shifts to some goofy :waycool: look

it was fantastic

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006


🎵 I'm blue
Yeah I'm a blue Shrek, guy
Step a foot in my swamp
And you're gonna die 🎵

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

DJExile posted:

I forget what match it was for, but there was an amazing sting entrance with Luger, where the whole time he's walking out behind sting, he's got this evil grin and is winding up like he's going to turn on him right there, then if Sting turned around to look at him, he immediately shifts to some goofy :waycool: look

it was fantastic

That whole Sting/Luger are BFFs storyline was really well done, and it fed right into the nWo storyline in a natural, organic way.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I posted that for you, friend

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Randaconda posted:

That whole Sting/Luger are BFFs storyline was really well done, and it fed right into the nWo storyline in a natural, organic way.

This was what made the Cody and MJF team so perfect.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006


🎵 I'm blue
Yeah I'm a blue Shrek, guy
Step a foot in my swamp
And you're gonna die 🎵

Randaconda posted:

I posted that for you, friend

I know, thank you, I just wanted to see it again without having to scroll so far back up.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


El Gallinero Gros posted:

I'd seriously like to know how many times he got turned on, has to be close to a dozen

does this count as sting getting turned on twice?

Hirez
Feb 3, 2003

Weber scored 49 points?

:allears: :allears: :allears:
Monster Truck Champion Madusa :swoon:

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Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Forgot how hot Madusa was before she got the stupidly huge implants

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