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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Super Dan
Jan 26, 2006



Ganso Bomb posted:

Every wrestler from the 70s and 80s was 40 until 2015 or so, then they all rapidly aged.

Jimmy Hart has been stealing their youth.

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Max Coveri
Dec 23, 2015





ChrisBTY posted:

And even after America grew out of its' collective adolescence and moved past the attitude era Russo just doubled down on that bullshit in TNA. At some point it stopped being 'this is a reflection of our horny and misogynistic society' and started being 'this is a personal grudge isn't it'? Did Russo just lie awake at night trying to hate Trinity to death then wound up being disappointed when she showed up to work?

Russo claiming that the Knockouts called each other sluts, whores, bitches etc. out of their own free will only for them to stop doing that as soon as he left was quite the footnote.

And everyone remembers Sharmell vs. Survivor Chick for the lovely offense, but Jenna did so many lewd spots throughout the match that it feels like a parody of old WWE Diva matches. Or it could be wank material for Russo. Or both.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



I think it's the HDTV revolution that caused old wrestlers to really started looking old. This is true of a lot of famous people in general though. The image quality is too good nowadays.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

iamsosmrt posted:

I think it's the HDTV revolution that caused old wrestlers to really started looking old. This is true of a lot of famous people in general though. The image quality is too good nowadays.

No, I mean that Jim Cornette at thirty-two in 1993 looks way older than I do here in 2020 at thirty-seven. And most of the other people I know my age.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Wrestlers can crash pretty hard when their bodies start to give (especially if they've been abusing anything to get into shape in the first place.) Hennig and Luger both really fell apart in a span of less than a decade.

But I also think the work environment plays a key. WCW just seemed to have a lot of guys crash on them not long after being poached, and TNA famously would ignore drug and alcohol problems until it blew up right in their faces. You can even see it work in reverse, like when RVD went from TNA to WWE and was, for a time, actually looking healthier and moving faster (though still not like in the old days.)

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Pope Corky the IX posted:

No, I mean that Jim Cornette at thirty-two in 1993 looks way older than I do here in 2020 at thirty-seven. And most of the other people I know my age.

Cornette even looked older than his age when he first started in Memphis. It made the rich momma's boy character seem like the guy was 30 and not in his early 20s. I guess that's more hateable?

RC and Moon Pie
May 5, 2011




Arn Anderson is another who always looked old.

He's 24 here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRXbh1vBv8

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Arn Anderson is a Perpetual Uncle

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Does Sid have a different theme on the Network for some reason?

Bryan and crew keep complaining about how his song doesn't fit him and I'm like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkz4tD8-PQ

This fits him perfectly. It's slow and imposing and menacing.

Ganso Bomb
Oct 24, 2005

turn it all around


NikkolasKing posted:

Does Sid have a different theme on the Network for some reason?

Bryan and crew keep complaining about how his song doesn't fit him and I'm like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkz4tD8-PQ

This fits him perfectly. It's slow and imposing and menacing.

He does and it's loving heinous.

https://youtu.be/nu6Q5dHLWDM

Better Than You
Apr 23, 2010



NikkolasKing posted:

Does Sid have a different theme on the Network for some reason?

Bryan and crew keep complaining about how his song doesn't fit him and I'm like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkz4tD8-PQ

This fits him perfectly. It's slow and imposing and menacing.
If you listen closely, the theme you posted is derived from his theme from his first WWF run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdMy0L79zm0

Funkchop
Jun 9, 2013


NikkolasKing posted:

Does Sid have a different theme on the Network for some reason?

Bryan and crew keep complaining about how his song doesn't fit him and I'm like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkz4tD8-PQ

This fits him perfectly. It's slow and imposing and menacing.

"Some reason" is probably because of WCW/Jimmy Hart and their love of ripping off already existing songs, in this case, "China White" by the Scorpions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ADTM97jgg8

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016
Congrats to Bix on his fav character King K Rool getting into smash!

TheKingslayer posted:

Since the topic is Russo, was Ed Ferrara ever worth a drat at writing or whatever or did he just luck into grabbing Russo's coat tails? Because as bad as Russo is Ferrara seemed even worse somehow.
Ferrara was hired off of a minor but legitimate TV writing career. He and Russo just lined up well. Today, he teaches a "writing for entertainment" class at Full Sail. And he mostly seems to have matured and mellowed out.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Defiance Industries posted:

Seems like everyone who was ex-WCW hated Hogan, but Austin especially.

Does anyone have a good word to say about Hogan? Coz you hear so many bad stories.

I guess Nash and Hall would respect the man's grift, and the way he helped them make wheelbarrows full of money. But I haven't heard many of the olde-timey wrestlers say much good about him.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010






Fun Shoe

Go ask Dizzy Hogan.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Grimey Drawer

BrigadierSensible posted:

Does anyone have a good word to say about Hogan? Coz you hear so many bad stories.

I guess Nash and Hall would respect the man's grift, and the way he helped them make wheelbarrows full of money. But I haven't heard many of the olde-timey wrestlers say much good about him.

John Tenta would talk about how much he liked Hogan, and how grateful he was that Hogan pushed to get him into WCW for a few years, in the same breath as he would say "but I have no idea why the hell he did the other things he did."

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


mrt can probably explain it in better detail but i believe when randy and liz's marriage really started falling apart with randy getting more abusive than usual terry and linda had her stay at their place for her own protection/peace of mind

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Weren't Andre adn Hogan close friends in real life? I always heard that.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

This post brought to you by RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS.
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BrigadierSensible posted:

Does anyone have a good word to say about Hogan? Coz you hear so many bad stories.

I guess Nash and Hall would respect the man's grift, and the way he helped them make wheelbarrows full of money. But I haven't heard many of the olde-timey wrestlers say much good about him.

Eric bischoff

Max Coveri
Dec 23, 2015





BrigadierSensible posted:

Does anyone have a good word to say about Hogan? Coz you hear so many bad stories.

I guess Nash and Hall would respect the man's grift, and the way he helped them make wheelbarrows full of money. But I haven't heard many of the olde-timey wrestlers say much good about him.

Ed Leslie?

overmind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Admiral Joeslop posted:

Go ask Dizzy Hogan.

And cross-reference it with Eddie Hogan

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007
Simaggeddon



BrigadierSensible posted:

Does anyone have a good word to say about Hogan? Coz you hear so many bad stories.

I guess Nash and Hall would respect the man's grift, and the way he helped them make wheelbarrows full of money. But I haven't heard many of the olde-timey wrestlers say much good about him.

I've heard that Big Show will defend Hogan to the hilt as Hogan basically got him into wrestling (and thus into WCW where he was immediately pushed in a main event feud with Hogan).

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009







Hogan immediately helped Flair when he was in a financial crunch not so long ago.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




JOHN CENA posted:

mrt can probably explain it in better detail but i believe when randy and liz's marriage really started falling apart with randy getting more abusive than usual terry and linda had her stay at their place for her own protection/peace of mind

I think that's one of those stories that Hogan tells and conveniently, nobody else can verify. But it does sound more believable than a lot of Hogan's other lies, at least.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



The nicest thing I'll say about Hogan is that he's a man who's spent 25+ years as an immensely popular, wealthy, larger than life superstar whose life has been under a microscope since the dawn of the internet. He's probably about average in the grand scheme of human character and integrity, with some extremely questionable to awful behavior in his past, but that he's not a 100% complete monster (that we know of) is probably more telling of him than people would like to credit.

That said, he's totally abused his privileges and powers and most of the poo poo people give him is 100% justified. But he's still capable of doing a lot of good things and being a likeable person if you're a figure in his life. A lot of people probably have similar relatives in their lives, lovely views and conversation, but they might step up above and beyond if you're in a pinch.

Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters


Defiance Industries posted:

I think that's one of those stories that Hogan tells and conveniently, nobody else can verify. But it does sound more believable than a lot of Hogan's other lies, at least.
From what I recall, it was told/corroborated by Linda Hogan and Lanny Poffo in the Dark Side of the Ring episode on Savage and Elizabeth.

Better Than You
Apr 23, 2010



SiKboy posted:

I've heard that Big Show will defend Hogan to the hilt as Hogan basically got him into wrestling (and thus into WCW where he was immediately pushed in a main event feud with Hogan).
IIRC Hogan was also the one who advised Big Show to jump to the WWF

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


iamsosmrt posted:

The nicest thing I'll say about Hogan is that he's a man who's spent 25+ years as an immensely popular, wealthy, larger than life superstar whose life has been under a microscope since the dawn of the internet. He's probably about average in the grand scheme of human character and integrity, with some extremely questionable to awful behavior in his past, but that he's not a 100% complete monster (that we know of) is probably more telling of him than people would like to credit.

That said, he's totally abused his privileges and powers and most of the poo poo people give him is 100% justified. But he's still capable of doing a lot of good things and being a likeable person if you're a figure in his life. A lot of people probably have similar relatives in their lives, lovely views and conversation, but they might step up above and beyond if you're in a pinch.

Hogan was accused of sexual assault and settled a resulting lawsuit. He also bought booze for his underage son and let him drive afterwards which resulted in Nick's friend in a vegetative state. Hogan blamed the friend's karma for that. Those alone make him a below average person, let alone the racial slurs, the politics, the snitching on a potential union and everything else.

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016
Congrats to Bix on his fav character King K Rool getting into smash!

MassRafTer posted:

Hogan was accused of sexual assault and settled a resulting lawsuit. He also bought booze for his underage son and let him drive afterwards which resulted in Nick's friend in a vegetative state. Hogan blamed the friend's karma for that. Those alone make him a below average person, let alone the racial slurs, the politics, the snitching on a potential union and everything else.
He settled even though he initiated the legal action by bringing an embezzlement lawsuit against his accuser and her lawyer. I believe that she and her lawyer countersued, as well, but still, that's a heck of a way to make oneself look not innocent.

Also:

* The context of the n-word recording is honestly much worse than it even seems on the surface; knowing that and also hearing the available audio makes that more clear. On the audio, the famous "I mean, I am racist, to a point. loving [n-words]. But then when it comes to nice people and poo poo, and whatever..." bit takes on a different significance. Based on the way his tone shifts, Hogan was using "loving [n-words]" as an example of something racist he'll say casually. He wasn't exclaiming "loving [n-words]!" in the moment, he was talking about how he says that poo poo ALL THE TIME. And all that's intertwined with discussions his fleecing of Cecile Barker for 8 figures in funding and, basically, calling Barker (and his son) "[n-word]s." Then, on his apology tour, ABC News let him get away with claiming that the n word was a term of endearment in his neighborhood growing up (...in '50s-'60s Tampa?) even though everyone knew that the issue was more than him just using the word.

* He disowned Big Show for years for (rightfully) quitting their stupid plan to make him a heavyweight boxer funded by Barker.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

There's also the whole mess surrounding the dress code at his Florida beach bar and restaurant, where every item of banned clothing was not only "things black people wear" but half of them were "things Hulk Hogan wears" like durags.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




But I thought the blizz pizz loved him?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Max Coveri
Dec 23, 2015






I don't think any black person has ever said 'sizz-aying' outside of minstrel shows

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Max Coveri posted:

I don't think any black person has ever said 'sizz-aying' outside of minstrel shows

its carny-talk.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



this was from one of hogan's books. He apparently actually believed it worked which i never would've guessed when i first came across it.




edit: lol guess it's obv from the highlighting i found it via a google search for "hogan carny talk big boobs"

smikey
May 22, 2004
It's not a hootenanny, it's an extravsganza!

Thauros posted:

this was from one of hogan's books. He apparently actually believed it worked which i never would've guessed when i first came across it.




edit: lol guess it's obv from the highlighting i found it via a google search for "hogan carny talk big boobs"

holy poo poo he considers that a coded language? there's less effort in that than pig latin

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Bizig Bizoobs

Max Coveri
Dec 23, 2015





JOHN CENA posted:

its carny-talk.

Oops, my bad.


FUNB stood for Fizuck Yizou Nizew Blizood.

Barry Bluejeans
Feb 2, 2017

HERE COMES DEATH RIDER

Thauros posted:

this was from one of hogan's books. He apparently actually believed it worked which i never would've guessed when i first came across it.




edit: lol guess it's obv from the highlighting i found it via a google search for "hogan carny talk big boobs"

I first became aware of this from the clip of Hogan getting caught on camera asking for the "tiz-ime" during an SNME segment with Elizabeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVbqHRbgMA#t=98s

(sorry for the lousy quality of video, don't think there's a better copy on YT)

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DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



as I recall that book was written almost entirely in kayfabe. Hogan wrote (OK, probably had ghost-written) a few books around that time

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