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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Dario Delfino posted:

I really liked Larry on commentary. Even when he'd say things like, "you can't trust the Japanese, they have seven hearts!"

That's the sort of information the viewer at home simply doesn't have.

Except the Japanese I suppose.

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PlasticSpoon
Apr 2, 2004


The WCW announce team was the best. Easily the best team in professional wrestling history. Zbyszko-Heenan-Schiavone was the best. Tenay was okay, but those three were it for me. They could announce anything and it would be awesome.

Oh and Zbyszko was classy as gently caress.

Rousimar Pauladeen
Feb 27, 2007

I hate the mods I hate the mods I hate the mods! I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS! Hey wait a minute why do the mods hate me I'm contributing to the conversation I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HA


PlasticSpoon posted:

Oh and Zbyszko was classy as gently caress.

Especially when Louie Spicolli died.

tzirean
May 1, 2007



Moose Bigelow posted:

Especially when Louie Spicolli died.

Ha, that was so loving awful.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!



The best Larry call was following Eddie Guerrero's return from his drunk driving crash which nearly killed him. Larry spent a minute and a half ranting about the evils of the motor industry propagander about wearing safety belts and that Eddie survived his crash by using his wrestling knowledge to frog splash through the window.

Burning Beard
Nov 21, 2008

Choking on bits of fallen bread crumbs
Oh, this burning beard, I have come undone
It's just as I've feared. I have, I have come undone
Bugger dumb the last of academe


The Croc posted:

Schiavone was always in business for himself in regards to politics, i know a big crome in wrestling. But thats one of the big things against him in that he would happierly bury people to get ahead. But then pretty much any top draw in wrestling History has done the same.

Personally if he did say come to the WWE he'd be in the top 3 of announcers WWE have on Shows atm.

Schiavone was in the WWF in the late '80s, early '90s. He played straight man to Jesse Ventura and he sucked. I have him on a Royal Rumble and a Summer Slam; doubtless he was on more. I could never get over on Schiavone, he was always bland compared to Heenan.

With that being said, I miss the hell out of WCW. It was what got me into wrestling in the late 1990s, the only house show I have ever been to was a WCW Thunder in Toledo. Actually, it was televised, Malenko v. Jericho was the headliner and it was drat good. I still have the "I pinned Katie Holmes" sign I made special for the show.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


Dario Delfino posted:

I really liked Larry on commentary. Even when he'd say things like, "you can't trust the Japanese, they have seven hearts!"

Well you see, it's like a human game of chess...

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Lone Rogue posted:

Well you see, it's like a human game of chess...

He's a BIIIIIIIG guy!

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Schiavone in the 80s NWA was really good, imo. Maybe it's because the alternative was David Crockett, but he fit.

The guy whose praise I don't quite get (nostalgia, but it goes beyond that) is Gorilla Monsoon. The guy was terrible. The only ability he had was to be able to play a good straight man with Ventura and Heenan. When he was with anybody else, he was abysmal, and when he wasn't doing banter with the aforementioned two he was also atrocious. He got moves wrong, sounded bored, and I remember a couple of times where it was said that some wrestlers didn't like him because he'd kill their moves by saying "Oh he'll get outta this one easily!" and poo poo.

Q_res
Oct 29, 2005

Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto.


Lone Rogue posted:

Well you see, it's like a human game of chess...

These robotized sheep of the New World Odor... (Yes, he really said that)

PlasticSpoon posted:

The WCW announce team was the best. Easily the best team in professional wrestling history. Zbyszko-Heenan-Schiavone was the best.

This is absolutely the correct anwser. You had Play-by-Play, face color, and heel color. Even when they had to talk over the lower-card matches, they didn't really detract from them. I dunno, it just worked.

maniacripper
May 3, 2009
STANNIS BURNS SHIREEN
HIZDAR IS THE HARPY
JON GETS STABBED TO DEATH
DANY FLIES OFF ON DROGON


Q_res posted:

These robotized sheep of the New World Odor... (Yes, he really said that)


This is absolutely the correct anwser. You had Play-by-Play, face color, and heel color. Even when they had to talk over the lower-card matches, they didn't really detract from them. I dunno, it just worked.

Let's not go too far here. There are entire matches from WCW television that a blind person would never know existed based on the commentary. I know a lot of WCW stuff was read from a sheet later on, but there's no excuse to ignore a match all together.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

There is when it was working. I find the idea ridiculous and irritating, but talking about the nWo and promoting the upcoming main-event during a Lizmark Jr. Vs. El Dandy match didn't exactly ruin the show. Undercarders with angles were usually talked about. Jericho, Kidman, Mysterio, Guerrerro, Benoit and the like. The announcers rarely ignored them.

Basically, instead of having a segment where there was no wrestling that did nothing but put over the main-event of the evening, they would have a decent match on for the wrestling fans and would talk up the main-event in the commentary booth.

It sounds great on paper, actually, but I still found it tacky.

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Yeah, it is. Isn't it?

Bowties are cool.

I love Heenan, but I've never been able to enjoy his WCW stuff as much as when he was in WWE. He had a one of a kind chemistry with Monsoon that could never be duplicated, and when he announced with McMahon he worked really well too. But he had no chemistry with Bischoff or Schiavone. Plus, the fact that he had to essentially be a face and bash the nWo really hurt him.

Where the hell did Mike Tenay come from? I remember him debuting during the 96 Bash at the Beach and having no clue who the gently caress he was.

gif Probst
Oct 20, 2006

= the tribe has spoken =


Captain Charisma posted:

Schiavone in the 80s NWA was really good, imo. Maybe it's because the alternative was David Crockett, but he fit.

The guy whose praise I don't quite get (nostalgia, but it goes beyond that) is Gorilla Monsoon. The guy was terrible. The only ability he had was to be able to play a good straight man with Ventura and Heenan. When he was with anybody else, he was abysmal, and when he wasn't doing banter with the aforementioned two he was also atrocious. He got moves wrong, sounded bored, and I remember a couple of times where it was said that some wrestlers didn't like him because he'd kill their moves by saying "Oh he'll get outta this one easily!" and poo poo.

nostalgia. something you can't get from the observer.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

TL posted:

I love Heenan, but I've never been able to enjoy his WCW stuff as much as when he was in WWE. He had a one of a kind chemistry with Monsoon that could never be duplicated, and when he announced with McMahon he worked really well too. But he had no chemistry with Bischoff or Schiavone. Plus, the fact that he had to essentially be a face and bash the nWo really hurt him.

Where the hell did Mike Tenay come from? I remember him debuting during the 96 Bash at the Beach and having no clue who the gently caress he was.

Tenay was a smark sheet writer who Bischoff hired.

I loved Heenan's heel commentary in WCW because he wasn't for ALL the heels. He didn't like the nWo, except when they took over Nitro so then he sucked up to them. I hate heel announcers who just root for every heel, it comes off so forced. Heenan was just a slimeball and a suck up and it worked.

Curtis of Nigeria
Jan 9, 2009


PlasticSpoon posted:

The WCW announce team was the best. Easily the best team in professional wrestling history. Zbyszko-Heenan-Schiavone was the best. Tenay was okay, but those three were it for me. They could announce anything and it would be awesome.

Oh and Zbyszko was classy as gently caress.

How long did this announce team exist for? Was it just for PPV? I seem to recall Schiavone and Zbyszko doing the first hour of Nitro alone, followed by Tenay, Heenan, and Schiavone.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Moose Bigelow posted:

Especially when Louie Spicolli died.

I wasn't watching WCW during this time. What happened?

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

Come on now, Tony likes Dusty and Brain just fine. He can even laugh with them when they're mocking him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMvF_6c5wiY

Also, this was a fine commentary team on Thunder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX0RD6eLRgM

Tenay, Stagger Lee and Brain.

A triple "ooooooohhh". Also, it's always fun to tell people that the voice of Tony the Tiger used to be a wrestling announcer.

Karmine
Oct 23, 2003

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.


Gavok posted:

I wasn't watching WCW during this time. What happened?

The two were feuding at the time of his death and the next Monday night they showed an "in memory of graphic" and then later on in the show Schiavone said something about "our thoughts and prayers are with his family etc" and then Zbysko said "I'd let you know how I felt about Spicolli but out of respect to his family I'll keep my mouth shut."

Guzim
Nov 10, 2007

Take me away from this big bad world and agree to marry me. So we can start over again.

One of my my favorite WCW commentary moments as seen here in Botchamania 29:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hni8rbCceto#t=01m43s

Von Dozier
Jul 10, 2009

by Peatpot


Karmine posted:

The two were feuding at the time of his death and the next Monday night they showed an "in memory of graphic" and then later on in the show Schiavone said something about "our thoughts and prayers are with his family etc" and then Zbysko said "I'd let you know how I felt about Spicolli but out of respect to his family I'll keep my mouth shut."

kayfabe until the end brother

Ziggy Tzardust
Apr 7, 2006

The only free choice is refusal to pay



Truely, this man is the greatest commentator that WCW ever had.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9...er-part-1_sport

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Guzim posted:

One of my my favorite WCW commentary moments as seen here in Botchamania 29:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hni8rbCceto#t=01m43s

See, TNA just can't touch moments like that. Or the Yeti/Giant double bearhug. Or Nash on commentary riffing on He-Man and Skeletor because he doesn't care. The late '90s were this perfect storm of backstage garbage, allowing for the unique existences of ECW and WCW, giving us so many out of control moments.

Mike Awesome: Fat Chick Thriller.

With an interview segment.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


LividLiquid posted:

There is when it was working. I find the idea ridiculous and irritating, but talking about the nWo and promoting the upcoming main-event during a Lizmark Jr. Vs. El Dandy match didn't exactly ruin the show. Undercarders with angles were usually talked about. Jericho, Kidman, Mysterio, Guerrerro, Benoit and the like. The announcers rarely ignored them.

Basically, instead of having a segment where there was no wrestling that did nothing but put over the main-event of the evening, they would have a decent match on for the wrestling fans and would talk up the main-event in the commentary booth.

It sounds great on paper, actually, but I still found it tacky.

Scott Hall once explained that good wrestling doesn't need to be talked about, but storylines do. So if two wrestlers are working magic in the ring, the PBP has no need for calling move for move because they know the viewer is enraptured in it. It's a good time to cover things that do need talking about, and that's storylines.

It's not the greatest explanation for it, but it is an explanation.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

That makes sense... and just like everything else, WCW ran it into the ground. They talked about the nWo almost every match. The fact that storyline had no real ending was the real death blow to the company, though. The fans' faith in the stories was tenuous at best at that point anyway, and then Nash booking himself as a face and Shiavone saying "maybe we were wrong about the nWo all this time!" and yadda yadda. I used to watch Nitro with a bunch of people for train wreck value alone from '99 on. Sad but true.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!



The worst of it was that for a lot of the undercard the matches were all they had. There were a lot of wrestlers in WCW that weren't involved in storylines for long stretches and by not paying attention to their matches it only served to underline how unimportant they were. The best of the attitude era was that everyone in the WWF had a storyline regardless of how dumb it was. Russo tried at least to give everyone something to do in WCW during his time, he just had no quality control.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Skinty McEdger posted:

The worst of it was that for a lot of the undercard the matches were all they had. There were a lot of wrestlers in WCW that weren't involved in storylines for long stretches and by not paying attention to their matches it only served to underline how unimportant they were.
The thing is, you're right about how it felt at the time. Now, though, I miss having random two guys who've never been in big angles just going out and having a match. Every match now seems to be made by a GM after the show starts and every match is a grudge match. I kind of miss seeing two random guys like Norman Smiley and Steven Regal having a match. Working excellent matches in this way and getting the crowd to like you with what limited time you had was the way to get pushed in WCW if you weren't already a star and weren't willing to slob Bischoff's knob. It helped make wrestling feel like an actual sport, which I did.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

Meltzer told an amazing WCW story on Wednesday:

They signed Frank Anderson a Swedish Olympian and began filming matches with him for that country with him going over. But they didn't push him on American TV. So they just had a guy, that they'd put on TV in one country instead of trying to make him a star everywhere.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


LividLiquid posted:

The thing is, you're right about how it felt at the time. Now, though, I miss having random two guys who've never been in big angles just going out and having a match. Every match now seems to be made by a GM after the show starts and every match is a grudge match. I kind of miss seeing two random guys like Norman Smiley and Steven Regal having a match.

Watch Superstars on Thursday, solid midcard wrestlers and curtainjerkers getting 8-12 minute long matches (sometimes longer) usually with no other reason than having a good match.

Dragging Iron Feet
Nov 10, 2007

by T. Finn


No one mentioned the Scott Hudson & Larry Zbysko commentary team. They were always my faves

Zack_Gochuck
Jan 3, 2007

Stupid Wrestling People


I'm actually surprised that WWE or TNA didn't pick up Scott Hudson. He's not the greatest of all time or anything, but he was downright decent in WCW.

Raeg
Jul 7, 2008

The top 1% of ducks have control of 99.9% of the bread.

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

I'm actually surprised that WWE or TNA didn't pick up Scott Hudson. He's not the greatest of all time or anything, but he was downright decent in WCW.

I think they had him for a little while during the weekly PPV days.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

I'm actually surprised that WWE or TNA didn't pick up Scott Hudson. He's not the greatest of all time or anything, but he was downright decent in WCW.

WWE tried him out on the Raw is Nitro episode with Arn Anderson.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

Sting vs Vampiro vs a Stupid Vince Russo Finish vs Stupid Insider Commentary FIRST BLOOD MATCH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mkjpn9s8mo

Sting vs Vampiro IN A GRAVEYARD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eGKis5QERs

Sting vs Vampiro Human Torch Match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mkjpn9s8mo


Oklahoma vs Medusa for the Cruiserweight title: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAyNOTLa1bE

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

Watch Superstars on Thursday, solid midcard wrestlers and curtainjerkers getting 8-12 minute long matches (sometimes longer) usually with no other reason than having a good match.
I don't have cable, but I suppose I should. I kind of miss it on big shows, though. I've always hated that in kayfabe, the company starts a live television show without any scheduled matches about half the time.

rotinaj
Sep 4, 2008



MassRayPer posted:

Meltzer told an amazing WCW story on Wednesday:

They signed Frank Anderson a Swedish Olympian and began filming matches with him for that country with him going over. But they didn't push him on American TV. So they just had a guy, that they'd put on TV in one country instead of trying to make him a star everywhere.

What year was this, that this guy was hired?

Why did he NEVER come to the States?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

rotinaj posted:

What year was this, that this guy was hired?

Why did he NEVER come to the States?

It was in the early 90s.

He did come to the states. It was just in most matches that they weren't using for TV in that market, he was a jobber. So they tried to portray him as a star in his own country but didn't bother doing anything with him here.

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at Jan 4, 2010 around 06:26

rotinaj
Sep 4, 2008



MassRayPer posted:

It was in the early 90s.

He did come to the states. It was just in most matches that they weren't using for TV in that market, he was a jobber. So they tried to portray him as a star in his own country but didn't bother doing anything with him here.

I'll never understand why WCW kept doing this. They kept paying people to do NOTHING.

Prime example was Leapin' Lanny Poffo. I wish I could have a job half as cushy as that guy.

Hudson
Jun 1, 2004

Beneath the surface lies the future.


You have forgotten more about the demise of WCW than I ever knew. I was casually watching wrestling during that late period and I had no idea of all the poo poo that was going on behind the scenes. As the casual uninformed fan, I stopped watching because the nWo storyline was just getting played to death and it seemed like the run-ins were just relentless. I remember the nWo all running out to interfere at least three times in a single show and it got frustrating as hell because it seemed like nothing was ever really resolved at the end. I wasn't around when it finally tanked.

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LightsGameraAction
Sep 4, 2006


When I was deep in my pro-wrestling fan days I tried tuning into WCW every now and then and I couldn't for longer than 5-10 minutes at a time because anything involving talking was liable to put me into a coma.

They would have guys come to the ring and cut promos and challenge other guys to matches and it would just come off so unexciting. Somebody would come to the ring and yell about another guy, the other guy would come out and yell, they'd both yell at the same time and be totally incomprehensible, then one guy would stare menacingly at the other guy and walk away. There weren't any "WHAT" or "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK" or "SUCK IT" or anything like that, they wouldn't wait for the other guy to stop speaking before they started speaking themselves half the time, and there wasn't any big entrance like Undertaker or Kane that suddenly silence the whole arena. I know it's a stupid complaint because it doesn't actually have to do with the wrestling itself but I just found it made the entire show that much more boring.

The ringside commentary(which included Madden at the time) was also god awful. Nobody was funny, they made everything that was happening backstage and with storylines sound so painfully scripted and they sounded like a bunch of old guys bickering while I was trying to watch a match.

I knew a guy in junior high school who was a WCW elitist who swore up and down the WCW announce team (with Madden) was leagues better than Lawler/JR any day.

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