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Moe_Rahn posted:oh my god maybe that stupid STDH.txt story that Scott Steiner told about being asked to take a drug test was true and this was Trips' revenge There is another Dave and Mike show this weekend I think I am going to send in a question about HHH's reasoning behind this since I have no idea why he'd want to poo poo up two main events that way.
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Jun 20, 2013 05:04
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Jerusalem posted:Triple H got a pretty solid match out of The Great Khali, which is so beyond my ability to comprehend that I feel like I just watched the Battlebowl all over again. Koslov was one of Stephanie's pet projects. Then they launched him at the main event based off of that and he completely bombed. Stephanie then got mad that the man that she had placed into a position he was in no way ready for was not ready for that position and blamed Koslov and everyone else but herself. See also The Ryback if instead of being fed jobbers for six months he had been put in a main event feud with HHH or John Cena straight off the bat.
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Jun 20, 2013 13:03
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I would still watch of Kozlov were around. Push kick to Sheamus! Push kick to Ryback! Push kick to JTG! It would be awesome to still be in a world where the push kick could be seen every Monday night.
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Jun 20, 2013 13:18
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Gonzo McFee posted:Koslov was one of Stephanie's pet projects. Then they launched him at the main event based off of that and he completely bombed. Stephanie then got mad that the man that she had placed into a position he was in no way ready for was not ready for that position and blamed Koslov and everyone else but herself. Stephanie vouched for him, putting her reputation and her word on the line and he repaid her by not getting over despite being in the main event with the big stars. Its no different than if you got your friend a job and he immediately starts calling in and no-showing. You look bad because you put your neck out. Nah I'm just playing, they mishandled him pretty bad.
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Jun 20, 2013 13:41
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They never should have given him music. It was such a unique thing just no music think the lights when down and he appeared.
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Jun 20, 2013 14:17
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The Croc posted:They never should have given him music. It was such a unique thing just no music think the lights when down and he appeared. WCW did it a decade beforehand with the Giant.
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Jun 20, 2013 14:20
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Steph's pet projects always bomb. See Daniel Rodimer for example. They had such high plans for him he actually wrestled Cena for the WWE title on a house show circuit, and yet somehow only managed one tv appearance against Eugene on heat that was godawful.
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Jun 20, 2013 15:38
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I honestly don't think Steph has enough character to run a business like WWE or be in a high ranking position even at this point in her life. There was a reason why Shane took all those ridiculous bumps. He wanted to be able to shoot poo poo with the wrestlers when he took over and be able to say things like, "I know where you're coming from man. God drat, this one time Kurt Angle was supposed to suplex me through this wall, and the fuckin' thing didn't break." It's probably also the reason he left to be his own man. It's like, Shane comes from money, but he knows the value of building character and life experience. I don't think Steph has the same drive. I mean her run as on on screen performer was OK and I wouldn't expect her to take these huge bumps, but I bet you wouldn't see her helping tear the set down after a RAW or any of the other grunt work that would help her appreciate the entire production and the work that goes into it. I'm just basing this on speculation, of course. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 15:42
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Kozlov was also highly recommended by Jerry Jerrett for what it's worth, quite a few people seemed convinced he would be a big deal. Whatever, Kozlov is always cool in my book for the Sheamus tea party segment. I love Michael Cole's incredulous "A KOZLOV CHANT?!?!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-lR1XddAzI
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Jun 20, 2013 15:49
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I liked those early promos that I don't think even made it to TV where Kozlov was all Borat,saying how much he loved Dobbel Dobbel E.
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Jun 20, 2013 15:55
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MassRafTer posted:There is another Dave and Mike show this weekend I think I am going to send in a question about HHH's reasoning behind this since I have no idea why he'd want to poo poo up two main events that way. HHH is set for life and he loves trolling WCW guys who he thinks have no talent or respect for the business. I figure he thought there would be two outcomes of booking matches with Steiner & Goldberg this way: a) It will end up being a great 20-30 minute match and he can take credit for being a great ring veteran b) It will be terrible and he can bury the WCW guys for not being able to work
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Jun 20, 2013 15:57
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Zack_Gochuck posted:I honestly don't think Steph has enough character to run a business like WWE or be in a high ranking position even at this point in her life. There was a reason why Shane took all those ridiculous bumps. He wanted to be able to shoot poo poo with the wrestlers when he took over and be able to say things like, "I know where you're coming from man. God drat, this one time Kurt Angle was supposed to suplex me through this wall, and the fuckin' thing didn't break." It's probably also the reason he left to be his own man. It's like, Shane comes from money, but he knows the value of building character and life experience. I don't think Steph has the same drive. I mean her run as on on screen performer was OK and I wouldn't expect her to take these huge bumps, but I bet you wouldn't see her helping tear the set down after a RAW or any of the other grunt work that would help her appreciate the entire production and the work that goes into it. Wasn't it revealed that a few of Shane's ideas actually got pitched for booking and they were grounded even less in logic and reality than Steph's ideas?
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Jun 20, 2013 15:58
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Zack_Gochuck posted:I honestly don't think Steph has enough character to run a business like WWE or be in a high ranking position even at this point in her life. There was a reason why Shane took all those ridiculous bumps. He wanted to be able to shoot poo poo with the wrestlers when he took over and be able to say things like, "I know where you're coming from man. God drat, this one time Kurt Angle was supposed to suplex me through this wall, and the fuckin' thing didn't break." It's probably also the reason he left to be his own man. It's like, Shane comes from money, but he knows the value of building character and life experience. I don't think Steph has the same drive. I mean her run as on on screen performer was OK and I wouldn't expect her to take these huge bumps, but I bet you wouldn't see her helping tear the set down after a RAW or any of the other grunt work that would help her appreciate the entire production and the work that goes into it. There's a running story/joke that if HHH and Stephanie got divorced before Vince left WWE, and Vince had to choose which of them he was going to hand control of WWE over to, his reply would be "I'm gonna miss Stephanie."  El Gallinero Gros posted:Wasn't it revealed that a few of Shane's ideas actually got pitched for booking and they were grounded even less in logic and reality than Steph's ideas? I vaguely remember reading that one of his ideas was building a main event program (and possibly a title run) around Raven. E: Also, regarding Scott Steiner in WCW, I remember when he first appeared on the scene and everyone had him pegged as a future superstar. Which he did eventually turn into; it's just that most people figured he would be a star based on his outstanding wrestling ability, instead of being a steroid monster that cut outlandish promos.
Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 16:05
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Wasn't it revealed that a few of Shane's ideas actually got pitched for booking and they were grounded even less in logic and reality than Steph's ideas? Oh, that's quite possible, but the point still stands, the man realizes the value of building character. He has said in interviews in the past that this was the reason he took hosed-up bumps. I'd have a lot more faith in Shane taking over WWE than Steph, but it's a moot point now anyway, because we all know Triple H is heir apparent, and I honestly think WWE is safe in his hands. Back onto WCW, we don't have enough three-count in this thread. Let's hear it for Three Count. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzNvcfmSgDw I also really remember liking this match when I was 15. It's a pretty big spotfest for a throwaway Nitro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sSu9wWTv8 Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 16:25
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Why do you have to take bumps to "build character" and write wrestling storylines? You can build life experience without being bashed into plate glass windows. Stephanie is a bad wrestling writer. Shane is too.
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Jun 20, 2013 16:32
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Tank Abbot as Three Count's groupie is a perfect example of WCW's horrible misuse of people. But goddamn was it hilarious.
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Jun 20, 2013 16:38
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triplexpac posted:Why do you have to take bumps to "build character" and write wrestling storylines? You can build life experience without being bashed into plate glass windows. For the record, I'm talking more about running the overall company than specifically creative. You don't have to like, specifically take bumps to build character, but how are you going to have any appreciation for what you're asking these men to do every night if you've never done it yourself? How will you relate to your workers? Do you think anyone in TNA honest to god has any respect for Dixie? Do you think anyone who was in WCW has any respect for Bischoff? Look at Jericho's first book where Bischoff comes off as a sleaze ball who awkwardly tries to make smalltalk with Jericho by asking if he slept with a Nitro girl. At least a guy like Cornette worked his way up, has literally filled every role outside of wrestler, and knows the business top to bottom. In the end, an actual former wrestler, like Triple H, is in a better position to take over the reigns. It'd be like trying to run a construction company when you've never picked up a hammer. You just can't do it. I mean yeah, you can probably be a wrestling writer without being a wrestler, but I guarantee you're going to need to have experience writing somewhere else to be able to do it, and it's a lot different than actually running the company. To bring it back to WCW, look at how Russo turned out when he was put in charge of an entire wrestling company. He says himself that he got crushed by the backstage politics in WCW. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 16:42
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I remember reading here that among Russo's many other flaws, he would plan finishes that were literally impossible. The wrestlers had to work around it, and when they were confronted about it, they explained the situation and the road agents were like "Yeah, just keep doing what you're doing." Or was that Bischoff?
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Jun 20, 2013 17:04
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I'm curious, do you have any examples of a "literally impossible" finish? Like, someone requesting a 1080 piledriver off the top of a ladder through a flaming table? I seem to remember Russo not really giving a poo poo what happened in matches move-wise, he just wanted his scripts followed. His endings were never really about "moves", they were about swerves and run-ins. I imagine beyond the run-in finish and the promo, he'd tell the wrestlers and agents to figure out whatever the gently caress they wanted.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:23
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whoever booked "Sting ziplines to the ring and we crash to end of show" needs to be kicked in the nuts.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:25
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Coming from a family business, and having worked for other family businesses, Steph definitely sounds like the worst type of boss in that environment. The entitled son/daughter who inherits the family business just by relation, i.e. not going through the ranks. Even if it was long determined she would take over, starting her off at the low end of the totem pole only helps her learn the business. By all accounts it sounds like she a bully who doesn't understand much about what it takes to run a successful business in her given industry. I think Vince (and the company by extension) lucked out that she married HHH. Everyone likes to do what-ifs. Well what-if Steph married some young tv producer guy instead of an old school minded wrestler? I think we'd have a full-on WCW situation brewing...ESPECIALLY when Vince died.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:32
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triplexpac posted:I'm curious, do you have any examples of a "literally impossible" finish? Like, someone requesting a 1080 piledriver off the top of a ladder through a flaming table? Yeah, what's an 'impossible' finish? "The Giant is wrestling with Hulk Hogan and Andre shows up with a mic to say "Son, we need to have a talk." "Sting is wrestling the Booty Man when the Disciple and Zodiac do a run-in and attack Sting."
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Jun 20, 2013 17:34
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I'm picturing more, "Tank Abbott gets the pin with a moonsault," but I'd love to hear some examples. Sounds hilarious.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:36
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triplexpac posted:Why do you have to take bumps to "build character" and write wrestling storylines? You can build life experience without being bashed into plate glass windows. Haven't people talked about how between the two, Shane was by far the worst booker?
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Jun 20, 2013 17:38
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Rodney the Piper posted:Haven't people talked about how between the two, Shane was by far the worst booker? Yes it's been spread around a lot that Shane had terrible, terrible booking ideas. I wish I could think of an example off the top of my head
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Jun 20, 2013 17:39
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Zack_Gochuck posted:I'm picturing more, "Tank Abbott gets the pin with a moonsault," but I'd love to hear some examples. Sounds hilarious. I understand that Sid's awkward jump off of the turnbuckle that broke his leg was actually booked as a Harlem Hangover.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:40
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triplexpac posted:I'm curious, do you have any examples of a "literally impossible" finish? Like, someone requesting a 1080 piledriver off the top of a ladder through a flaming table? But I wouldn't be surprised if Russo asked guys to do a spot that was like something you said "Hey wouldn't it be cool if..." when you were 9 years old, but that isn't really possible.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:41
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Road Dogg in particular singled Russo out as a guy who had no idea how to book finishes, and after a while, they'd come up with their own. Russo made the mistake of confronting the Outlaws one day about it and they proceeded to tell him to get hosed and physically threaten him.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:47
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It was you!quote:Russo not being involved is kinda true, but not quite the way he explained it: According to Road Dogg, Russo would go over what he wanted as a finish, a lot of the time, not realizing that what he asked was either stupid, counter-productive, or unrealistic by wrestling standards. So they'd ignore his finish, Russo would cry foul, and Vince McMahon would ask the wrestlers what was up, if they were going into business for themselves, and the wrestlers would explain why the finish changed. It came up frequently enough that eventually, McMahon asked Vince to focus on the storylines and dialogue, and that the road agents that you mentioned would handle the rest.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:03
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gently caress, I don't even remember saying that. Looks like one of my posts, though.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:10
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The story goes that Russo had this weird idea that if he saw one wrestler do a move, any wrestler must be able to do that move. Plus he thought that anything could be done off the top rope and didn't understand the basics of bumping. Stories about this come up all the time in shoot interviews, though apparently he eventually got smartened up far later than you would think. In that "Russo books an indy show" shoot video for example he's still laying out finishes that could break necks.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:39
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If Russo booked an indy show the biggest swerve would be that everyone got paid, with real money.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:42
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Skinty McEdger posted:The story goes that Russo had this weird idea that if he saw one wrestler do a move, any wrestler must be able to do that move. Plus he thought that anything could be done off the top rope and didn't understand the basics of bumping. Russo not understanding bumping doesn't surprise me at all. This is the same man that wanted to replace the wrestlers with actors and train them to wrestle, since the real pro wrestlers couldn't act out his vision correctly.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:50
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Russo not understanding bumping makes complete sense, because he got so many horrible concussions in WCW. It's actually a little scary reading his book, how messed up he was at that time.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:08
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triplexpac posted:Russo not understanding bumping makes complete sense, because he got so many horrible concussions in WCW. It's actually a little scary reading his book, how messed up he was at that time. I don't mean this as a joke but I wonder if that led to some of the incredibly hosed up stuff he booked in TNA. The angles on the early TNA PPVs are so reprehensible that they could only be explained by brain damage.
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Jun 20, 2013 21:19
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theres a good argument to be made that this is the case based on what he wrote in his book alone. He also became reportedly increasingly paranoid and resentful of people who didn't "get" him.
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Jun 20, 2013 21:39
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People with brain damage often find Jesus as well.
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Jun 20, 2013 22:08
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The Death of WCW mentions that at one point Russo had to do episodes of Nitro wearing a helmet due to how bad the concussions got. Was he still putting himself up to take bumps at that point or was the helmet more of a "if you take any more head damage you'll die" kind of thing?
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Jun 20, 2013 23:24
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You'd have to be brain-damaged to unironically title a book: Forgiven - One Man's Journey from Self-Glorification to Sanctification. Yes I'm still mad about that.
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Jun 20, 2013 23:28
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The brain damage argument would have more credence if it wasn't for him already doing all of that insane bullshit before the concussions.
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Jun 20, 2013 23:45
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