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MassRafTer posted:Thinking of Goldberg and some questions last night reminded me how close we are to some big debuts for Tuesday Nitro.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:24
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Chris Gaines posted:I thought Hennig and Raven debuted on the same Nitro? The way I remember it, there was the typical nWo clusterfuck near the end of the show with Hennig out of nowhere walking down the aisle towards the ring in a blue suit, and Raven jumping over the guardrail and confronting Hall. This is correct, although I'm pretty sure Raven didn't wrestle for awhile and just hung out in the crowd and gave promos. I believe his first match was against Stevie Richards at the final COTC that August.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:54
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Pre-wrestling Goldberg looked reasonably similar to Steve "Doctor Death" Williams, which makes it pretty ironic that his wrestling image is constantly compared to a different Steve Williams. 
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Feb 13, 2014 01:15
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Chris Gaines posted:I thought Hennig and Raven debuted on the same Nitro? The way I remember it, there was the typical nWo clusterfuck near the end of the show with Hennig out of nowhere walking down the aisle towards the ring in a blue suit, and Raven jumping over the guardrail and confronting Hall. My mistake, I thought Hennig debuted in May.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:29
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Goldberg somehow made a tribal tattoo look not stupid. That alone is a testament to his physical charisma.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:39
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Goldberg rules, and I can't believe how much both WCW and WWF hosed up a can't-miss guy like that. Both WWE and TNA have given guys squash or streak gimmicks, and none have gotten over like Goldberg did.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:57
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Goldberg is a self-involved turd who probably didn't help matters much.
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Feb 14, 2014 00:54
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Also, it was the age of the extremely charismatic talker being on top (Rock, Austin, Foley; even Trips could cut decent if WAYYY TOOO LONNGGGGGG promos) and Goldberg is basically a few steps down from Lash LaRoux in that department. Nobody did Goldberg any favors by getting him anywhere near a mic. The dude needed a Cornette or Heyman-type manager that could talk like a motherfucker to cut his promos for him so he could just stand there looking menacing and who could've gotten his rear end kicked from time to time by the bigger name heels so that Goldberg wouldn't have to be made to look weak, thus protecting him and keeping him strong and also drawing more heat. Sorry if that borders on fantasy booking, but goddamn, it's such a simple, simple concept for someone in Goldberg's position.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:06
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Goldberg's purpose in life was to breathe a few last gasps into the corpse of WCW so we could see more of the train wreck as it imploded.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:19
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Goldberg was a great promo, he just gassed out after three or four words. It depended on whether or not his opponent has a last name.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:42
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So long as he kept it short, he was just fine at getting across Unhinged Nutjob.
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Feb 14, 2014 02:14
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MassRafTer posted:Goldberg was a great promo, he just gassed out after three or four words. It depended on whether or not his opponent has a last name. What if WWE is shortening people's names to bring Goldberg back at Wrestlemania? Who would the worst WCW promo be of the people they actually let talk?
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Feb 14, 2014 02:15
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Luigi Thirty posted:What if WWE is shortening people's names to bring Goldberg back at Wrestlemania? A new golden age.
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Feb 14, 2014 02:16
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Luigi Thirty posted:
Mongo.
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Feb 14, 2014 02:25
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DeathChicken posted:So long as he kept it short, he was just fine at getting across Unhinged Nutjob. I don't know, he got across unhinged nutjob pretty well in that episode where he sat taunting police officers and telling them he should be above suspicion when accused of sexual assault because he gives money to police charities.
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Feb 14, 2014 02:32
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Luigi Thirty posted:Who would the worst WCW promo be of the people they actually let talk? Sid.
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Feb 14, 2014 02:35
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What's great about Goldberg is he is classic wrestling booking. You get a guy who's good at something. You make him do that thing a lot. You make him familiar, but different (He's the only guy with 'streak gimmick', his intro music is just drums and synth strings) you have him win a bunch and you stop him having his flaws exposed. When Sullivan was interviewed he said they actually debuted him twice, and he didn't get the "goldberg" gimmick until they stopped calling him Bill Goldberg. I'll have to check that out I'm not 100% that. algebra testes fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 02:47
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Was that Nick Dinsmore as the boxer in that overlong Team Piper segment?
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Feb 14, 2014 04:09
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Can someone sum up Tank Abbott in WCW? He just looks like a homeless guy who wandered into a wrestling event and started fighting people for their change.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:16
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Well, you just summed up Tank Abbott in UFC.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:17
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Red posted:Can someone sum up Tank Abbott in WCW? He also would shave people's beards 
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Feb 14, 2014 04:46
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Red posted:Can someone sum up Tank Abbott in WCW? Tank was an early UFC star who was sold to the public as basically an average joe tough guy bar fighter. Some of his wildman image was true, but he also had a bit of am amateur wrestling background as well, and put some thought into his training (although it was usually incredibly stupid.) By the time UFC was getting kicked off cable and banned in several states his star had faded, but he was still a pretty good bet to do pro wrestling along with Don Frye. WCW signed him initially to be a guy with a legit background who could work as a tough guy foil to Goldberg... but Tank was not suited to wrestling at all. They booked him pretty poorly too, and he was kind of meandering around until Souled Out 2000. The card was falling apart and the suggestion that the title be put on Tank was one of the things that got Russo shown the door. He didn't do much for another few months until he became 3 Count's biggest fan and became their bodyguard who eventually attacked them and stole their gold record. Then he got cut. Don Frye on the other hand became a huge star in Japan because Eric Bischoff was too much of a dumbass to sign him. When they met Bischoff had Ernest Miller in the office and Miller kept bragging about how he could beat anyone in UFC and how UFC never had a real karate or kickboxing master. Frye laughed at him and said they had plenty, and after the Cat tried to talk down to Frye, Don basically told him he'd gently caress him up.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:55
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Red posted:Can someone sum up Tank Abbott in WCW? From what I've picked up by osmosis, Abbott showed up in UFC's early days when the sport of MMA was in a molten state, having not settled down into the form it would take several years to shape into. He was a 'legit' street fighter, as in someone whose fighting knowledge and skill consisted of getting into all sorts of brawls in bars and whatnot married to a fair bit of punching power. MMA was ruled by grappling in those early days, so someone who could actually win by striking or knockout stood out. However, Abbott's fighting depth was very limited, and hence he flamed out pretty quickly. Still, he had produced some impressive looking knockouts, so WCW grabbed him up. Of course, being a 'skilled bar brawler' doesn't translate into wrestling skill or charisma, so Abbott is mostly rememebered for when WCW gave up trying to get him over as a killer badass and instead made him a Three-Count groupie. Edit: Beaten like if I got into a fight with Tank Abbott.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:57
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His initial gimmick of "Punches the other guy unconscious and then leaves while the ref is 10 counting" was pretty cool, until you realized he should have been counted out in every match. Hell, maybe he was.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:01
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Abbot was an amateur wrestler and boxer so his "image" as a streetfighter was bullshit; he had better training that most folks he was fighting in those daysl.\\
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Feb 14, 2014 05:47
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Tank should have just been a pro wrestler in the first place.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:58
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As far as actual fighting ability goes, Tank was a tough guy who had some amateur wrestling and boxing experience. He would beat ten shades of poo poo out of guys who were "experts" in Master Kim's Tae Kwon Daycare, or big fat guys who were supposedly trained in fake martial arts like ninjitsu and "trap fighting," but he didn't do so hot against guys who were actually trained full-contact fighters.
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Feb 14, 2014 06:00
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The fact that he had about as much cardiovascular conditioning as Bob Sapp definitely has a lot to do with that.
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Feb 14, 2014 08:07
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Red posted:Can someone sum up Tank Abbott in WCW? WWE signed Severn and Shamrock, so WCW had to sign their very own UFC dude and unfortunately they landed upon signing a fat blob of a charisma vacuum from the paleolithic era of UFC when it consisted of exponentially more fat dudes who threw nothing but haymakers constantly than it does now. Severn and Shamrock could actually wrestle (and Severn was a former NWA Heavyweight champ at that point, too) and were good. Tank... was not. He had zero charisma, looked like poo poo, couldn't talk, couldn't wrestle, couldn't sell, got paid way too much to do effectively nothing and is infamous for two things: holding a knife to a dude's throat on PPV and threatening to "loving kill him" (which the announcers sold as Tank "threatening to shave his beard" (the dude didn't have a beard)) and then being put in a joke gimmick with 3 Count (a WCW boyband gimmick) where he was their groupie and would come dance with them in the ring. A perfectly reasonable throwaway joke gimmick that actually got some laughs and it only cost WCW probably upwards of a million dollars (if not more; rumor has it they were wanting to send Abbott to get SINGING LESSONS). Russo also loved the guy and wanted to give him the loving world title because "people would believe it". As quite possibly the only bright spot of Tank's WCW tenure, this idea either lead or contributed Russo losing his role as booker. Tank was basically everything that was wrong with WCW. If you were playing "WCW waste of money" bingo with a Tank Abbott card, the only space you wouldn't cover is "Former WWF Star/Hulk Hogan's IRL friend". Otherwise, it'd be a clean sweep.
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Feb 14, 2014 10:19
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Occupy Japan posted:WWE signed Severn and Shamrock, so WCW had to sign their very own UFC dude and unfortunately they landed upon signing a fat blob of a charisma vacuum from the paleolithic era of UFC when it consisted of exponentially more fat dudes who threw nothing but haymakers constantly than it does now. Severn and Shamrock could actually wrestle (and Severn was a former NWA Heavyweight champ at that point, too) and were good. Tank... was not. Severn and Shamrock were signed well before Tank, two years prior in Shamrock's case.. It wasn't a response signing, it was a signing that made a lot of sense because Tank did have a ton of charisma and was really popular. Hell he was so popular UFC would bring him back for three straight losses after his pro wrestling run ended. He wasn't the best option to sign (Frye was) but he was definitely a guy to take a chance on.
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Feb 14, 2014 10:26
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MassRafTer posted:Severn and Shamrock were signed well before Tank, two years prior in Shamrock's case.. It wasn't a response signing, it was a signing that made a lot of sense because Tank did have a ton of charisma and was really popular. Hell he was so popular UFC would bring him back for three straight losses after his pro wrestling run ended. He wasn't the best option to sign (Frye was) but he was definitely a guy to take a chance on. Huh. I could've sworn it was pretty shortly after Severn and Shamrock came in. Shows what I know, I guess. I guess I always chalked him up to the stupid WWF copycat poo poo WCW did a lot roughly around that time. Frye would have been pretty great though, but knowing WCW, they'd have found a way to gently caress that up. At least pushing him as a legit potential world title holder wouldn't have been so laughable. Don looked like one bad motherfucker at the time whereas Tank pretty much always looked like Jim Neidhart if the Anvil had really let himself go. How much of Abbott's booking was Bischoff responsible for at all? Any at any point? I think it'd be pretty ironic if Bischoff, who apparently mocked how the WWF booked Shamrock (going so far as to allegedly push Goldberg in the way that he thought the WWF should have pushed Shamrock) was in any way responsible for Tank bombing.
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Feb 14, 2014 10:40
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Occupy Japan posted:Huh. I could've sworn it was pretty shortly after Severn and Shamrock came in. Shows what I know, I guess. I guess I always chalked him up to the stupid WWF copycat poo poo WCW did a lot roughly around that time. Frye would have been pretty great though, but knowing WCW, they'd have found a way to gently caress that up. At least pushing him as a legit potential world title holder wouldn't have been so laughable. Don looked like one bad motherfucker at the time whereas Tank pretty much always looked like Jim Neidhart if the Anvil had really let himself go. Bischoff was still in charge of WCW until September of 99, so he was still there for the initial Tank push, but Kevin Nash was the booker at that time. Bischoff was so out of it by 99 that it's entirely possible he wasn't paying attention to anything other than his own storylines and what Hogan was doing. That doesn't absolve him of blame, that's just probably how he was.
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Feb 14, 2014 10:48
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Tank definitely had a gimmick around the time of the "reset episode", where he would just randomly come out and beat up fat guys like Mark Madden. On the reset episode itself, he even re-introduces himself as "a shootfighter", which in the context of pro wrestling seems like both a sequel to the classic storyline of Buff Bagwell vs The Writers, and a pre-cursor to another classic storyline in "Goldberg's not following the script!". Then he lost to David Arquette. Maybe they were inspired by the Friends storyline where Monica's rich boyfriend tried to fight Abbott and lost horribly. Swerve?
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Feb 14, 2014 12:02
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Iskanderson posted:Was that Nick Dinsmore as the boxer in that overlong Team Piper segment? According to IMDB, it's a guy named Craig Mally. He doesn't have a lot of credited appearances, but Piper was the leading role in most of them. The kickboxer guy is Layton Morrison, and he's been a Hollywood stuntman/coordinator for a while. He also did some prior work with Piper.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:49
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The Dragons/Three Count ladder match with Tank in 3C's corner is one of the strangest matches I have ever seen. Tank certainly embraced that strange situation for all it was worth.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:26
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Snacksmaniac posted:The Dragons/Three Count ladder match with Tank in 3C's corner is one of the strangest matches I have ever seen. Tank certainly embraced that strange situation for all it was worth. I think Tank said it was the most fun he had in WCW.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:27
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bobkatt013 posted:I think Tank said it was the most fun he had in WCW. IIRC it was the most over Tank Abbot got too. That's probably because pro wrestling is supposed to be fun.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:46
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I object to the idea that pro wrestling is supposed to be "fun." Fun gets you dance-offs and dancing with kids celebrations and comedy gimmicks everywhere on the card. Pro wrestling is supposed to be entertaining and what most people find entertaining is drama and conflict.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:59
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epitasis posted:I object to the idea that pro wrestling is supposed to be "fun." Fun gets you dance-offs and dancing with kids celebrations and comedy gimmicks everywhere on the card. Pro wrestling is supposed to be entertaining and what most people find entertaining is drama and conflict. Pro Wrestling needs to be fun, but also entertaining. It is a fine line and when its too much fun, it gets stupid. When there is too much drama and conflict it goes up its own rear end.
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Feb 14, 2014 15:01
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epitasis posted:I object to the idea that pro wrestling is supposed to be "fun." Fun gets you dance-offs and dancing with kids celebrations and comedy gimmicks everywhere on the card. Pro wrestling is supposed to be entertaining and what most people find entertaining is drama and conflict. We obviously have very different definitions of fun. bobkatt013 posted:Pro Wrestling needs to be fun, but also entertaining. It is a fine line and when its too much fun, it gets stupid. When there is too much drama and conflict it goes up its own rear end. Exactly. Conflict in wrestling should be more about The Rock is pissed off because Stone Cold Steve Austin dumped cement in his car, or C.M. Punk stole the Undertaker's best friend's ashes and is rubbing them into his loving chest because gently caress the Undertaker, as opposed to Randy Orton assaulted Triple H's family, and Triple H is devastated and wants to kill him. The conflict in wrestling needs to be over the top, not I R SERIOUS wrestling. I mean, I'm not saying it never works, but the over the top stuff always always always gets over more. Just my personal taste, I guess. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 15:02
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