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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


LividLiquid posted:

I'm not getting it either, but nobody can even substantiate the birdshit ad rumor. Nobody has it, nobody remembers seeing it, and nobody can find the issue of the observer that quote was supposedly lifted from. I wouldn't put much stock in it.

so if you actually saw the observer with this quote you'd finally believe the truth?

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JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


LividLiquid posted:

Had he not pulled the shows, the company would have been sold to Fusient and Eric Bischoff, leaving the huge contracts such as Nash Hogan and Hart with AOL Time Warner.

Without Jamie Kellner, WCW may have survived and become much, much better.

WCW killed WCW. It brought itself to the point where Jamie Kellner had to kill it. All he did was give it a mercy kill.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


GrimGypsy posted:

If you really, really picture this - I think it more or less sums up the dueling silliness, sadness, unintentional hilarity, and tragedy of late WCW.

By "did his first huricanrana" they mean he received, not gave.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Captain Charisma posted:

Schiavone in the 80s NWA was really good, imo. Maybe it's because the alternative was David Crockett, but he fit.

The guy whose praise I don't quite get (nostalgia, but it goes beyond that) is Gorilla Monsoon. The guy was terrible. The only ability he had was to be able to play a good straight man with Ventura and Heenan. When he was with anybody else, he was abysmal, and when he wasn't doing banter with the aforementioned two he was also atrocious. He got moves wrong, sounded bored, and I remember a couple of times where it was said that some wrestlers didn't like him because he'd kill their moves by saying "Oh he'll get outta this one easily!" and poo poo.

nostalgia. something you can't get from the observer.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Golden Bee posted:

According to his book, he actually just started insulting them so they'd be really really rowdy when they got back.

They really, really misused Jericho.

you gotta know there's something wrong with a company for punishing their midcarders for getting bigger reactions than their main eventers.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Satire Forum Mom posted:

He's not- Scott Steiner sounds like a really smart, logical dude in that shoot. He's full of poo poo sometimes, but I mean, guy's still a wrestler.

i cannot even fathom a clearly speaking and articulately speaking scott steiner

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


MassRayPer posted:

One of the greatest matches in WCW History:

Sid vs The Nightstalker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhdmUW6NHPA

HHH learned how to use his sledgehammer from this match.

IS THAT A loving BATTLE AX?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Wazzu posted:

Is somebody willing to give a rundown of the show to explain why it was so bad?

judy bagwell on a pole match










e: this was one of the less offending matches

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


LividLiquid posted:

Jeremy Piven didn't use his character's name and neither did that Napoleon Dynamite kid, but we were expected to believe that the actors are exactly like their characters, which I suppose is a bit different, but it still bothers the poo poo out of me.

Totally thought it was Doink. Evil, original, Jack-Nicholson Joker Doink. Not stupid clown Doink.

piven and heder didn't play ari gold or napoleon dynamite, they were just themselves.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


maniacripper posted:

To this day my casual wrestling friends think that the warrior who came back in WCW is a look alike because the real warrior died when he left WWF.

I don't know if they're in denial or are just really stupid.

it was a fairly common rumor in the early 90s.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Rusty Shackelford posted:

Back to the TV Universe discussion for a minute.

When Judah Friedlander was on the MSG Raw as Frank, that means that Raw and 30 Rock share the same universe, right?

but he wasn't on as frank. he was on as judah.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


GOP posted:

What's 'post' about he misfits. Punk band started in 1976.

the faction, not the band.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Pneub posted:

And he kicked out of a jackhammer. That was pretty much the headstone on his WCW career.

no he didn't.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Some things to talk about : The Best of Nitro 3 Disc DVD set coming out later this year, hosted by DDP. Also, the WCW Nitro Arena is available for download on the PS3 version of Smackdown vs Raw 2011. (It will be downloadable for 360 "soon") seen here

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


So let's go back, and say that Sting wins clean over Hogan, doesn't vacate the belt, momentum carries him through a face title run for x amount of months. Where is WCW and how is WWF doing against WCW's probable larger fanbase?

Lurkee Mcgee posted:

I know I can look a lot of this stuff up online without asking you guys, so I've been going that route. One thing that I don't know if I'm understanding correctly: The WCW reboot. What exactly happened? Did they just come on TV one night and say "we're dropping everything, and writing new stuff"??

Has there ever been such an absolute breaking of the fourth wall in pro wrestling like that?

Vince Russo walked out, asked for everyone's championship belts, walked to the back, and the Big Reset was explained the next week.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


it wasnt a rape storyline it was a bad storyline

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


yo i wasnt watching at the time but is it true that wcw started to improve in terms of booking and in ring matches in 01 before the buyout?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


MassRayPer posted:

That was also a pretty good show!

what would you say was the best overall top to bottom card for WCW from 96-99?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


It definitely feels watching back on some episodes of Nitro they were definitely more focused on TV than actually concluding things on PPV. Surprised Spring Stampede 99 is held in such high regard, I'd always dismissed anything post-fingerpoke being worth checking out.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


MassRayPer posted:

That is one of the best matches in cruiserweight title history but the second half of that card is utter trash with a legendarily bad and insulting main event.

Is that the one where they reveal it's non-title AFTER the big win?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Theoretical question, if the wolfpac had absolutely zero NWO branding, do you think they would have been better accepted by the fanbase, even with Sting joining them?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


oldpainless posted:

How many Nitros actually ended with some huge nWo run-in to cause a DQ and beat down the face? I know it happened but has it been blown out of proportion due to time and bashing WCW? Just a rough figure, was it only actually like 10 times or was it literally almost every week like people say it was?

in late 96 and early 97, almost every week. it calmed down a bit mid 97.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


I remember him showing up one Nitro wearing the IWGP Heavy belt on his shoulder and absolutely nobody saying a word about it

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


jeffersonlives posted:

On the other hand, the crossface and diving headbutt have both reappeared, which honestly I never thought I'd see again in a WWE ring after the Benoit tragedy.

I always thought those moves would return with some guys, but never one dude's moveset. I guess the mentality there is just to re-establish the moves/combo as someone else's signature, not Benoit's.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Sporadic posted:

I never heard that one before. Do you think that could have been because of the Monday Night Wars? 1998 was when the WWF was still behind, wasn't it?

spring of 1998 was when WWF started to gain a steady lead over Nitro in the ratings.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006



you know outside of mongo and scott norton, once the NWO angle began to start up, almost nobody did heel turns for that spring/summer, and even norton joined the NWO by years end.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i miss the days tag teams were a draw

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


If that was the case, why did Ace book an entirely new and separate tag division in the Cruiser tag Titles in WCW? Or was that a Bischoff call when he was preparing to buy the company?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Perigryn posted:

-Sheamus winning King of the Ring and then going on a losing streak afterwords was attributed to Dunn not liking him
-No JR ('too southern')
-Mid PPV concerts
-Less wrestling
-Diva Search
-Tough Enough
-Katie Vick

Paul Bearer said he's the only person he actually hates in all the time he's been in the business.

katie vick was actually mostly steph mcmahon

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i need my davequotes

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


MassRayPer posted:

Or the time some puro company wouldn't let Meltzer or any of the fans leave a TV taping even though it was like 2 in the morning.

this one im unfamiliar with.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i could never cheer for the wolfpac because they still labeled themselves as the nwo and they were the enemy dammit

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


SteelAngel2000 posted:

Man, this takes me back.

I absolutely adored WCW back in the day. I first started watching right after the nWo formation in 1996, and for three years, even after WCW started getting really bad, it was my premier destination on Monday Nights.

I watched for Sting more than anybody else, but honestly I can't think of anything in that three year stretch that made me too angry. Raven and his flock, the introduction of Goldberg and his pseudo rivalry with Chris Jericho (I had a Jericholics T-shirt, what of it), Lance Storm and Hacksaw Jim Duggan turning pro-Canada for a while for some reason, just to name a few things I can remember off of the top of my head.

I was a Wolfpack guy myself, mostly because of Sting. I remember sitting in utter horror watching Sting reveal his nWo black and white shirt, then breathed a huge sigh of relief when he ripped it off and had a red and black shirt on underneath. Sting was awesome.

Did they ever reveal who drove the stupid hummer?

kaz hayashi.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


VogeGandire posted:

Jericho/Malenko was gold, and I put that down them not over-complicating it. They didn't try any pointless swerves, they just gave the crowd what they wanted. They were hot for Jericho mocking Dean, Dean disappears, Jericho keeps mocking him, Dean comes out of nowhere and slaps Jericho around like he owes him money.

Plus the pop for Malenk-ope unmasking is one of the biggest pops I've ever heard.

To this day, it's still one of my favourite feuds. I still mark out like crazy when Malenko just stands up after unmasking and gives Jericho the most evil-looking death glare I've ever seen, before just beating seven shades of poo poo out of him.

i kinda think bait-and-switching malenko's title win and forcing him to just be a guest ref at the conclusion of the feud was Over Complicating it.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


nothing to do with the wcw thread but whenever i see sarah palin, i immediately think of MRT.


thank you MRT for being our resident pro wrestling analyst/historian/5 card stud strategist.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


EugeneJ posted:

MassRayPer thinks that if something isn't published, it never happened. I disagree with that.

For instance, if five people in a wrestling company personally tell me something happened backstage, and MRP counters with "SHOW ME WHERE THAT WAS WRITTEN I CAN NOT FIND AN ARTICLE ON THIS" - well, that's just silly.

its less that more that you literally don't know the definition.


libel is written.


slander is spoken.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


coconono posted:

WCW basically had a bunch of old white men sitting around trying to think of ways to make WCW 'cool'

That's how you got Spring Breaks, Nitro Parties, NWO Souled Out, Monster Trucks, Biker Rallies, etc.

actually the first two were pretty cool and made for fun atmospheres for their shows.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i thought it looked cool but yeesh that ppv was a stinker

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


MassRanTer posted:

You have to remember that Bischoff was initially inspired by seeing the first UWFi vs NJPW dome show. The idea behind that rivalry was it was promotion vs promotion, that the real pro wrestlers were taking on the fake pro wrestlers. NJPW even kept UWFi around as a seperate promotion for awhile even though the whole reason the feud came about was UWFi was no longer viable. So the blueprint was there and it seems plausible that making the nWo its own thing would add to the overall feud, especially if Sting was taking the title. Granted, I have no idea how the nWo would work as its own show. I can see how it would work for one PPV a year, maybe, but its own show, no.

If it were a one hour syndicated show similar to WCW Pro/Worldwide, on obscure local channels, maybe at a later timeslot, just featuring NWO guys beating up jobbers and featuring WCW and NWO guys cutting promos, I could see it having a chance of working as a supplementary thing.

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JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


dont remember if it was mentioned but tony mamaluke is another who has worked all 5 major US feds

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