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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


MassRayPer posted:

I loved Norman Smiley even as a jobber on WCW Saturday Night before he got any gimmick. I remember in late 97 when he did a quick promo where he declared even if anyone else wouldn't, he would stand behind Sting against the nWo! I just wish WCW had been willing to get behind him. He was a good worker who was over, but they'd never push him beyond joke Hardcore title reigns where Ralphus was the guy who got more of the spotlight.

With Norman Smiley under WWE contract (as a trainer for FCW) I really wish they'd bring him on screen for a segment with Santino. Holy gently caress would those two be amazing together.

Smiley has like the most appropriate name ever. It's impossible to hate him!

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Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Skinty McEdger posted:

Whipwreck was hired by Eric Bischoff at the same time they hired the Sandman. The entire 'Hardcore Hak/James' run was stupidity of the worst degree, not helped by WCW hiring a porn star to be Hak's valet/Ravens sister and the entire Raven as Ferris Bueller angle.

Both Hak and Whipwreck ended up getting injured in the Junkyard battle royale at Bash at the Beach, which cost $100,000 to put on and was only advertised on the Thunder before hand. It should be noted few people picked up on Hak getting injured in the match because the crack camera crew managed to avoid showing him at all in the match. The only reason anyone knows he was in the drat thing is because he has a scar to show from the match.

Seriously for everything you can say about WCW in the Russo era, that which went just before it was just as bad if not worse in someways.

Isn't that also the match where Finlay hosed his leg up to the point where he basically had to retire for a good 5 or 6 years? Actually, I think drat near everybody that was in that match suffered some kind of injury.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Captain Charisma posted:

That reminds me. Ready To Rumble. WCW made a movie for wrestling fans in which the main characters (wrestling fans) are retarded sewage workers.

Sal Bandini, wanna wrestle?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


That picture is basically wcw.jpg.

Anyway what was the deal with the Women's Championship and the Women's Cruiserweight Championship? There were tournaments and then that was it. Wikipedia tells me Akira Hokuto won a title vs. career match against Madusa and then went back to Japan which vacated the Women's title and after the tournament the Cruiserweight one was never even defended in WCW. That all seems... pretty stupid and wasteful, honestly. A women's division with Madusa, Malia Hosaka, some of the Gaea wrestlers and whoever else would've been spectacular.

On that note, I watched a Toshie Uematsu/Meiko Satomura match from the Cruiserweight tournament and good god. Both of them are very green so the match is pretty sloppy, the match itself is like three minutes long at best, Schiavone and Tenay can't be bothered to make any sort of effort of pronouncing the names remotely correct, and Larry Zbysko practically goes "WHICH CHINK GIRL IS WHICH I CAN'T TELL."

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Pope Corky the IX posted:

It was so satisfying to see Tank Abbott beat the poo poo out of a half-naked Mark Madden. Some of those shots looked pretty stiff, too. That was probably the only worthwhile thing Abbott ever did in all the time he was there. Unless you count his being a groupie for Three Count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zASL2KYKRQ

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


LividLiquid posted:

Vampiro sucks. And yes, it was.

I really have no clue why but at the time Vampiro was one of my favorite guys. I think it was mainly a combination of the corpse paint, using the Michinoku Driver and his awesome theme.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


HulkaMatt posted:

He just came out of retirement sort of. He says he still has some good matches left in him and he's in the best shape of his life and he's excited and wants to wrestle and loves everything.

He also had a short run in TNA back when they were on FSN.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Dario Delfino posted:

I miss the Puro workers and luchadores. WWE (and TNA) never use both as much as WCW. Though ECW gave it a good shot.

When they brought back Muta near the end, didn't they team him up with Vampiro and the loving ICP as part of the Dark Carnival? Because when you're bringing in the Great Muta obviously that's obviously the best use of him.

Edit:

Lone Rogue posted:

Great Sasuke was supposed to be the first Light Heavyweight Champ but got injured.

Actually he didn't win it because he was a complete retard. He went to the Japanese media and started going on about how he'd only defend the belt in Japan and never drop it on WWF TV. This eventually got back to the WWF and that was pretty much the end of Sasuke in the WWF.

Suben fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 28, 2010

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


What about Rey Mysterio? He was fairly popular but more or less a midcarder in WCW, comes in to WWE and works his way up to main eventer, is a multi-time WHC champion (lovely reigns or not) and has been one the biggest stars in the company for like the last 5 years.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Perry Normal posted:

No, I think that was Whisper. Was Spice the one with a mouth like a carp?



I don't remember how but there was a period where they decided to do something with all the Nitro Girls and Spice ended up as Madusa's valet/manager.

I think one of them acted as a valet for Kanyon during his "Champagne" gimmick, one of them became Ernest Miller's valet Ms. Jones, Sharmell (I forget what her Nitro Girl name was) became The Artist's valet Paisley and Tygress became the valet of the Filthy Animals.

There's probably a few others I'm forgetting outside of Kimberly and Stacy Kiebler.

Edit: I think that was the time period where like every loving person on the roster had some kind of valet or manager. Macho Man had three (Madusa, Gorgeous George and Molly Holly), Daffney came in around that time I think, Flair had Lil' Naitch and even guys like the loving Maestro and Prince Iaukea had a valet.

Suben fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Mar 14, 2011

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


After going back and reading the OP, I got to the bit about them doing Goldberg vs. Hogan for the title on Nitro. That stirred up some really vague memories of a WCW wrestler (for the life of me I can't remember who; Malenko's the name I keep coming up with though) giving an interview to a local radio station here in the Central Florida area that Monday and outright saying, paraphrasing of course, "Yeah, watch Nitro because tonight we're gonna have Goldberg beat Hogan for the title." Not in an "I'm a face, he's a face and he's up against the top heel so I hope he's gonna win." way but in a straight up "this is what's been booked" way.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

I think it's a little different because The Rock is not a regular member of the roster, like both Hogan and Goldberg were. It'd be more like giving the Undertaker vs. John Cena for the world title away on RAW for free.

Or doing a champion vs. champion match as an hour one main event with no heat whatsoever.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


blunt posted:

Holy poo poo that's ugly.

You could say that it looks like something a bird left on the hood of my car...

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Lone Rogue posted:

Ciclope: Was once played by Dean Malenko to the biggest pop in WCW history

Really if there's any cruiserweight/luchadore that I can remember as being irrelevant to... well pretty much everything it's Super Calo. Even Lizmark Jr. had an appearance in WCW Mayhem at least.

triplexpac posted:

I freakin' loved the Natural Born Thrillers.

That era really was great for companies trying to push new stars.

Plus the Thrillers were a pretty big part of WCW in its last year or so from what I remember. Also I kind of liked High Voltage when I was a kid, or at least Kenny Kaos because I'm a sucker for jobbers suddenly "making it" even if the circumstances around that were kind fo stupid from what I remember.

As for the Flock, I can't remember if Scotty Riggs was actually any good as a wrestler but I remember liking the initial storyline with Raven injuring him so he could get him to join the Flock.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Maxwell Lord posted:

And to make things better the announcers were never told anything. So you'd get sequences like where they bragged about not having DQ finishes like at the competition, then three matches would end in DQs.

Didn't they often not show vignettes or whatever to the announcers to (only to the TV audience) so things would happen but the announcers wouldn't know about it? Or was that only for Flair in the desert?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


The WCW Mayhem mention reminds me that it had pretty much the most random roster I could possibly imagine.

quote:

1. Alex Wright
2. Arn Anderson (Hidden Character)
3. Bam Bam Bigelow (Hidden Character)
4. Barry Windham (Hidden Character)
5. Billy Kidman
6. Bobby Blaze (Hidden Character)
7. Bobby Duncum Jr.
8. Bobby Eaton (Hidden Character)
9. Booker T
10. Bret "Hitman" Hart
11. Buff Bagwell
12. Chavo Guerrero Jr.
13. Chris Benoit
14. Chris Jericho (Hidden Character)
15. Chris Kanyon
16. Curt Hennig
17. Dean Malenko
18. Diamond Dallas Page
19. Disco Inferno
20. Doug Dillenger (Hidden Character)
21. Eddie Guerrero
22. Eric Bischoff (Hidden Character)
23. Ernest "The Cat" Miller
24. Goldberg
25. Hollywood Hulk Hogan
26. Horace Hogan
27. Jimmy Hart (Hidden Character)
28. Juventud Guerrera
29. Kaz Hayashi
30. Kenny Kaos
31. Kevin Nash
32. Konnan
33. La Parka
34. Lash LeRoux (Hidden Character)
35. Lex Luger
36. Lizmark Jr.
37. Macho Man
38. Mean Gene Okerlund (Hidden Character)
39. Norman Smiley
40. Perry Saturn
41. Prince Iaukea
42. Psychosis
43. Raven
44. Rey Mysterio Jr.
45. Ric Flair (Hidden Character)
46. Rick Steiner (Hidden Character)
47. Scott Hall (Hidden Character)
48. Scott Norton
49. Scott Steiner
50. Sergeant Buddy Lee Parker (Hidden Character)
51. Sonny Onoo (Hidden Character)
52. Steve "Mongo" McMichael
53. Stevie Ray
54. Sting
55. Wolfpac Sting (Hidden Character)
56. Wrath

Whoa, you mean I can play as Sgt. Buddy Lee Parker, Prince Iaukea or Lizmark, Jr.?! Hell, I don't even remember anyone named Bobby Blaze in WCW but looking it up he was some jobber with a handful of appearances or something.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Astro7x posted:

That's all stables pretty much did was change the attire the wrestler was wearing. But the game was overall horrible as you had to memorize button press combinations and button mashing resulted in repeated arm bars and arm drags.

The best part of the Nitro and Thunder games were the rant videos on the Character selection screen.

Thunder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGp3...tailpage#t=130s
Nitro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVjN...feature=related

Oh crazy, coked up Anvil...

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


the_Vandal posted:

It was implied that he was filled with peanut butter.

That reminds me, there was a story in I think the old celebrity meetings thread that was in GBS where some dude talked about how Reese was, for some reason, an in-joke among him and his friends and they'd call into the WCW radio show (or internet show? something like that) and constantly pester the host about Reese/the Yeti. I wish I had the story myself.

CombineThresher posted:

Pretty much, yeah. And while Raven wasn't particularly thrilled about Van Hammer joining the Flock, Hammer's drug problems made him a perfect fit.

Hammer in the flock was hilarious because of the ridiculous attempt at grungy psuedo-goth makeup and the mesh shirt with a hole cut in front of the nipple so you could see his nipple ring.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


MassRayPer posted:

Cruiserweight champion.

Didn't she win that from Evan Karagias via WOMAN TRICKERY or something (I think this was when Spice was her manager for... some reason)?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbiXtLrXaas

How did Roadblock of all people have such an awesome entrance theme? They couldn't have given the "not quite puro" entrance music to someone better?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


crankdatbatman posted:

Jimmy Hart as in that Jimmy Hart, right? The loud mouth of the south?

Yeah, he did a lot of music back during the '80s in the WWF and in WCW in the '90s (the stuff that wasn't production/stock music anyway) and especially in WCW his themes are pretty notorious for basically just being reworked versions of actual songs i.e. DDP's theme being "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Wheresmy5bucks posted:

It's actually "Come as As You Are", which is actually ludicrously fitting given the flock. Jericho had an "Even Flow" rip off and that's the extent of my Jimmy Hart rip off WCW knowledge.

Jimmy Hart is a master of copying just enough to not get sued. WWE seems to mostly be original - only Jimmy Hart version I think they had Johnston do is Tommy Dreamer, who had a really close knock off of "Man in a Box".

It has value, it ties a wrestler to a popular song and people hear it, it keeps wrestling in their heads.

The FBI/Nunzio's theme was a pretty obvious ripoff of No Sleep Till Brooklyn. And I know there are instances of the same basic song being re-used/redone for other wrestlers (like Sid Justice/Crush).

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Lone Rogue posted:

WWE is notorious for re-using themes. Hell, they are doing it right now with Funkasaurus! The best would be Patriot/Angle and the toot horn for Tugboat/Steve Regal/U.N.I.O.N.

Oh I know about re-using themes. I meant more re-using them with small changes or something. Like making JHVs of their own themes... although the Sid/Crush one is the only one that really jumps out at me right now.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


ColonelJohnMatrix posted:

Did Too Cool ever hold the belts? Man, they were over as gently caress for a time. The worm was almost on the level as the people's elbow in terms of audience reaction, which is crazy looking back.

Scotty and Sexay held the belts for like a month in 2000 ending E&C's first reign. Scotty and Rikishi had the WWE Tag Team Championship (the one that was created for Smackdown after the brand split) in 2004.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Beef Jerky Robot posted:

Scotty is a real nice dude.



That's Scotty visiting my cousin in the hospital and Lil' BJR snuck in for the photo op.

WCW Thread: Scotty 2 Hotty Appreciation Station.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Flameingblack posted:

They were both rapidly losing stars, and desperately trying to find new stars to see what stuck. It's weird, but guys like Jamie Noble and Super Dragon were part of WCW during the dying days.

Is there even any footage of Super Dragon in WCW? I've never been able to actually find any.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Red posted:

Huh. Interesting. A quick Google reveals:


I'm not sure what "going beyond nearly wrestler, including Hunter" means, but neat.

It means Rock was pretty much a bigger star than anyone else in the business, including the guy HBK was lobbying for.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


MassRayPer posted:

Jerry Flynn sucks.

Was it Flynn or Cat that got his job because he was Garrett's karate instructor?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Ask him how it was being the first WCW guy to show up after the WWE bought them and that awesome reaction he got when he unmasked.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Hirams Bitch posted:

He got somewhat over, but he was still a mediocre at best worker and one of the worst promos in the industry. Let us not forget his rise to the main event coincided with WCW's fall into the toilet. Also he is poo.

"One of the most popular guys in WCW during the period of time where wrestling was at its most popular" is a little better than "somewhat over".

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


HulkaMatt posted:

DDP is one of those guys who I know needed to go over every spot and sequence before a match but I always liked him and thought he was really fun.

Yeah he planned out his matches but it worked because he knew to work around the strengths of himself and his opponent. He'd probably make a good agent/producer for WWE.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Lone Rogue posted:

He was revealed to be Hogan's mole in the Dungeon of Doom and then showed up as the Booty Man.

It isn't so much that it made little sense; it made no sense.

The "out came a bearded Ed Leslie" entry from that list of Meltzer WCW quotes is one of my favorite things ever. It's just one of those things that perfectly encapsulates WCW much like the Booker T holding a picture of Scott Hall image.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


One of the best parts of the IT'S NOT HOT video is The Master's "THE WARRIORS ARE GATHERING ON THE FOUR CONTINENTS AND SEVEN OCEANS!" line.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Is there anything good about... 1994/1995 I guess WCW? All I ever really hear about is the Dungeon of Doom/Hogan stuff and it just sounds completely dire. Was the undercard at least good or something?

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


A few days/pages back MassRayPer had an old Observer quote about Austin and not wanting to job to The Renegade. Well reading that I decided to look up The Renegade on Wikipedia and right there on the page, with a picture of him, is the most WCW thing.



The caption under it: The tribute to Rick Williams that aired on WCW Monday Nitro after his death; note the erroneous reference to him as "Rick Wilson".

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


quote:

The Hogan camp philosophy, stemming from their 1980s WWF success surrounded putting title belts on the top babyfaces and feeding them a succession of one heel after another, usually large and freaky, and having the top face never lose and the key faces never lose except in the case of major league screw-job. The packaging is largely aimed at creating merchandising stars and having a product geared toward young children.

The more things change...

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Honestly if you were a kid watching WCW during Luger's run against the nWo and you DIDN'T rack friends/brothers/cousins/whoever you could I dare say you were a Bad Wrestling Fan.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


Wendell posted:

Man, Brain turning around to "pout" was amazing and could have easily been played off as an in-character moment if Tony hadn't reacted like a pissy baby.

I like later on Raven getting a table, Tony calling it a chair, Brain correcting him, and Tenay without missing a beat chiming in with "a chair masquerading as a table here at Bash at the Beach".

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


This is from days/pages back but...

Judeccahedron posted:

Then near the end of WCW proper, he teamed up with a guy called Kid Romeo who had a knock-off of "The Cup of Life" by Ricky Martin. Also, I think before he was in Team Canada, he was called "Skip Over"

I'm pretty sure we can also blame Skipper for the Overdrive. I don't know if he actually invented it but he was the first guy I remember seeing do it and it's been a blight on lower card WWE wrestlers (and even some times slightly higher than that!) ever since. Truly a more insidious heel move than a thousand Hulk Hogans leg dropping Savage.

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Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


So I'm way late to the party but finally picked up Death of WCW and while I'm enjoying it has it been said at all what's going to be in the expanded 10th anniversary edition? I feel like a lot of stuff just gets kind of glossed over in favor of "it scored an X rating drawing Y fans and doing a Z gate (...) HULK HOGAN (...) Eric Buschoff is losing his mind" like twice a page and after a while it gets a bit grating when I'd rather be reading more about some of the stuff that was actually going on in the shows angle-wise and whatnot. It especially hurts the pre-1996 part of the book because I think going more in depth about Hogan vs. the Dungeon of Doom/Horsemen/Alliance to End Hulkamania, that loving cage match, exactly how sick the crowds were of Hogan, etc. would've been both entertaining and done a better job setting up just dire things were for WCW pre-Outsiders.

On the other hand the constant mention of ratings points/attendance/gates revealed to me that Schiavone announced the attendance for Georgia Dome show where Goldberg won the belt as being LESS than it actually was for... I don't even know.

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