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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
Another reason I love that particular moment (Heenan facepalming) is it used to happen all the time. Seriously, ALL THE TIME. Go watch WCW from the mid/late '90s, and listen to Heenan trying to work with Schiavone or Bischoff (mainly the former). They're improvising, as they should, but there were so many times that Heenan would say something in character, and Schiavone would shoot him down with no wit, nothing but an annoyed "Shup up, Lamebrain!" Seriously, Heenan used to give that guy so many openings and Schiavone had no idea how to work with him. As time went on, it really did bring Heenan's game down, he stopped caring and a few times sounded drunk on commentary.

It's really sad, but WCW would've brought wrestling to another level had management been able to get people to understand they all had to work together. Everyone really was in it for themselves.

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Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
I really liked Larry on commentary. Even when he'd say things like, "you can't trust the Japanese, they have seven hearts!"

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Guzim posted:

One of my my favorite WCW commentary moments as seen here in Botchamania 29:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hni8rbCceto#t=01m43s

See, TNA just can't touch moments like that. Or the Yeti/Giant double bearhug. Or Nash on commentary riffing on He-Man and Skeletor because he doesn't care. The late '90s were this perfect storm of backstage garbage, allowing for the unique existences of ECW and WCW, giving us so many out of control moments.

Mike Awesome: Fat Chick Thriller.

With an interview segment.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
That makes sense... and just like everything else, WCW ran it into the ground. They talked about the nWo almost every match. The fact that storyline had no real ending was the real death blow to the company, though. The fans' faith in the stories was tenuous at best at that point anyway, and then Nash booking himself as a face and Shiavone saying "maybe we were wrong about the nWo all this time!" and yadda yadda. I used to watch Nitro with a bunch of people for train wreck value alone from '99 on. Sad but true.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
I want to preface this post by saying I loved WCW.

With that said, here's some moments that come to mind when I think of it, courtesy of DDT Digest:







I'll post some more in the picture thread.

Dario the Wop fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jan 4, 2010

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
WCW put Jerry Flynn in a ppv match.

(His opponents were The Cat & Sonny Onoo, handicap match, IIRC)

And that's nowhere near the insanely stupidest, self-destructivest thing they booked. But I really miss them. Even the bad stuff. The IWC (I haven't used that term in forever) used to have so much more material, so much news and gossip and excitement, because we had WCW and ECW that really were lunatic-run asylums. And WCW had a Hollywood budget, no less. It really was a special time.

I'm an old-timer, I got into WCW circa '89, so I was fortunate - I got to see stuff like Muta vs. AA, Vader's debut (it's all about the Giger Elephant Helmet), Sting and Luger in their primes (yes, Luger was good circa '89-90), Flair cutting promos with confidence (and without desperation). That's what I like to look back on. Sadly, for every one great memory like that, there's three more of stuff like The Ding Dongs, The Yeti, The Powers That Be, etc.

Say what you will about WCW, but they really were the place for great American wrestling up until '00 or so. Just like the McMahon anecdote, while he was in the Sports Entertainment business, WCW was in the 'rasslin' business. That's what I miss. Pardon the ramble, this thread brought back way too many memories.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Lamuella posted:

The ones I remember are "spin the wheel, make the deal", which was actually fairly badass even though it led to Sting and Jake the Sanem having a coal miner's glove match

Oh my God... that ended with Sting and Jake blasting each other with optic lasers...

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
You know what was weird? The Flair/Crowbar/Daffney stable was called The Badlanders.

No, I'm serious. That's what Penzer announced them as. Except that he only did it some of the time, which is why no one except me and a dozen or so sperglords in the south remember.

Same thing with A.J. Styles' tag team, Air Raid (he had a team with a guy named "Air Paris").

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
"The Thing That Should Not Be"

Last I heard, lawyers killed it as if it lived up to it's name.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
This pissed me off so much. I wanted Hogan to be more like a pro wrestler, and he immediately turned WCW into sports entertainment.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

DannoMack posted:

Wasn't that pre-NWO? I have no recollection of Hogan wearing black and white prior to joining the New World Order. And now I just reminded myself that that was 15 years ago and I am old. WCW is evil.

The first time Hogan wore black, it was because the Dungeon of Doom and the Giant had turned him over to the Dark Side by shaving his mustache and hurting his immortal body, even causing him to think Sting had turned on him (because Luger already had, even though his gimmick change was just over-enthusiasm rather than a Saturday morning cartoon monster like the others). Then he was the meat in a Giant/Yeti sandwich, the most dignified visual in wrestling I'd ever seen (at the time). Then he ripped off all the black on PPV and there was yellow and red underneath. I find myself dumber now having typed that out. Jesus gently caress.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

joshtothemaxx posted:

I didn't remember Earthquake, Meng, and Beefcake were in on this nonsense.

They made Earthquake alter his tiger tattoo into a shark. He was Shark Boy's unenthusiastic uncle. He did cut a nice "I'm a man, not a fish" promo once, though.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

TL posted:

I thought he changed his tattoo of his own volition.

Wiki confirms that. I was going off memory.


I've been GISing for a few minutes now, and I can't find any pics of Sgt. Buddy Lee Parker as the Leprechaun. Don't even remember what he looks like. Anyone have a pic or screencap handy? I wanted a visual comparison to Hornswoggle.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
I miss the Puro workers and luchadores. WWE (and TNA) never use both as much as WCW. Though ECW gave it a good shot.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Suben posted:

When they brought back Muta near the end, didn't they team him up with Vampiro and the loving ICP as part of the Dark Carnival? Because when you're bringing in the Great Muta obviously that's obviously the best use of him.
I never said WCW used puro workers the best. But they did use them more than WWE. Ditto the luchadores.


joshtothemaxx posted:

Do you guys think lunchadores ever get over with crowds in the WWE? Obviously Rey has, the Guerreros count, Juvi did for sure. I think a lot of others (like La Parka) could have had it not been for WCW treating them like a joke.
I would argue WWE treated them more like a joke than WCW, however I admit I'm looking at it through nostalgia for my teen years. I just liked seeing wrestlers I'd never seen before, from other countries, and being impressed by them. You don't get to see stuff like the 8-man tag match from Souled Out '98 on cable anymore.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
The best was a Year in Review Nitro (98, IIRC) that was advertised as such. It was actually a Hulk Hogan WCW career retrospective.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
As much of a fan as I am, I couldn't stand him during his WCW run. Besides bad booking, he was so depressed and demoralized, most of his performances were crap. I can't blame him for phoning it in, but it was rough to watch. I can only think of a few matches with DDP, Sting, Benoit, and Malenko off the top of my head that weren't that bad.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Lone Rogue posted:

He was bitter after the Screwjob...
Oh, I know. Preaching to the choir. It was just so disheartening. That's why I supported him finishing out his career in WWE this year. And he got another US title reign out of it. :unsmith:

Dario the Wop fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 29, 2010

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
The best was about a year before the shoot promo, when Steiner ran down a road worker with his car and got arrested. I swear he was wearing an nWo shirt in his mug shot. Can't find it of course, but Wiki says the incident took place in April '98.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

oldpainless posted:



That's loving beautiful. He looks hungry.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
"Mr. Hole in One" Barry Darsow
Los Vilanos
The Gambler
"Thunderfoot" Jerry Flynn
The Armstrong Brothers
Marty Jannetty


I submit no other promotion had better jobbers than WCW.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Lone Rogue posted:

As for WCW jobbers, I actually thought High Voltage had potential.
The Power Plant - good idea, bad execution. Classic WCW. There were so many people that trained there because they wanted to be wrestlers, and just needed time and experience. In 2000, they rushed everyone out into the upper midcard, which I think hastened the end of several careers. Elix Skipper, Mike Sanders, and Sean O'Haire are three that stick out in my mind as having great potential that wasn't reached.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
1989. Most of that year was quite good. The booking team had both Jim Ross and Ric Flair, among a few others.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

El Gallinero Gros posted:

It'd be a fine statement if he followed it up by being like "non-rapist division".
Considering the Gold Club allegations, Bischoff wouldn't qualify for that particular division.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Pretty sure the allegations largely are just "Likes to watch his wife gently caress strippers". Which is mildly sleazy but hardly rape.
IIRC one of the strippers alleged he and/or his wife tried to rape her. Quick Google search other than an old Hyatte column (remember him?) doesn't bring up anything concrete, so I am probably wrong.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Occupy Japan posted:

no one ever seemed to know what to do with him as a singles performer and he got stuck in comedy gimmicks at the tail end of both his WCW (wearing a dress) and WWE (Moppy) runs.
Don't know about Saturn BTS in WCW, but his WWE gimmick with Moppy punishment for shooting on a jobber. I always chalked the WCW dress gimmick as WCW just being WCW and misusing talent, though it should be noted by the time he and Raven were a tag team Saturn had transitioned from evening gown to what can only be described as a leather battle kilt. It rocked.

I think Saturn was good and could've been a solid upper card utility player (perfect guy for tag title runs with different partners, secondary title runs), but there was bad booking and drug abuse at play so it wasn't to be.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
To preserve the credibility of the World Tag Team title, Rick Steiner had his partner Judy Bagwell award the title to Kenny Kaos.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
Stacy Keibler's pregnancy, and subsequent miscarriage in some kind of gravy bowl (or pudding? whatever) PPV match.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

1st AD posted:

Yeah I know that, I was wondering if they came out of the Power Plant or if WCW went out of their way looking for models, because IIRC none of them could wrestle and kind of burst onto the scene at the same time.
WCW put out an ad. Midajah was a bodybuilder and model, as were the other four girls they brought in. One of them, Kim Kanner, quit after they wanted her to report to the Power Plant to wrestle.

Isn't that why Elizabeth ended up quitting?

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
A reminder to all that Chavo shaved his own head when he lost a Hair vs. Hair with Uncle Eddy. Then he wore a domino mask and would act as if he rode Pepe to the ring. These things must not be forgotten.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

DrVenkman posted:

I think in the UK it was shown as movies. They would package episodes together and sell them as movies.
Not just in the UK. Worked at a video store from '99-'00, and among the recurring jokes among staff was that we actually had Thunder in Paradise II and III (not I), but they would lay there untouched for weeks, gathering legit dust.

Also, random, Jack Lemmon was actually fairly hot at the time of Thunder in Paradise due to the Grumpy Old Men films (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePRYhNNdzwk). They clearly wanted to cast someone with name value as Hogan's sidekick, and ended up with someone lower in show biz than Frank Stallone or Don Swayze.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Rad R. posted:

For a moment there I thought you meant Jack Lemon was that low, then I went back a couple of posts and realized it was his son, what a relief. Nobody can ever diss Jack Lemon.
Yeah, sorry, that post was horribly-written. I blame the sudden wave of millennial nostalgia.

Flair during the period when he had both Woman and Elizabeth as valets was fantastic. During Savage matches he would come out to ringside and have gourmet dinner at a banquet table. I'm having a hell of a time finding pics or video though.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

laz0rbeak posted:

The worst thing about the Wolfpack is that Sting was in it and Scott Hall wasn't. Instead, he spent the year in NWO White teaming up with the Giant, winning the tag titles from Sting and Nash. It was the worst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOjXUIzfao0
This video compiles clips of interviews with the theme being Hogan/Nash legit heat. About 18min, Nash claims Hogan used his creative control to take Hall away from him.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
Regarding Mean Gene's hotline, I actually called it back in 97 when I was 16. "A former world champion left another organization to join his friends" were Gene's paraphrased words, the implication being HBK. Turned out to be Saturn (former ECW World Tag Team Champ).

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
IIRC Hall's wife wrote an open letter pleading for him to get help during that time, and the National Enquirer published it.

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

Edge & Christian posted:

I guess the NWO is gone?
This part never ceases to amaze me.

There was no blowoff. They just gradually phased out the angle.

One time during Nash's babyface title reign, I swear Schiavone said "maybe we were wrong about the NWO."

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
Regarding Glacier... I am currently under the weather, but I recall at one time he sold Kaz Hayashi his gear. Another time, Norman Smiley was his biggest fan hyping up a return, and then he would come out and pose and wave to fans while Smiley was beaten up and screamed for help...

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
Dude, that rules. Better than most of us could do.

You should make a new one this year, with Joker Sting. :D

Also, love the inclusion of the "When a man's heart..." monologue.

Looking forward to the inevitable post-Mania Sting BR set, featuring the glossing over of post-WCW up to his appearance this year. "Then, the Man Called Sting went into exile..."

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
My previous post should be read with constant chuckling and laughter. Didn't make that clear. I suck at posting (why I don't often).

Also, yes, he is THE VIGILANTE Sting. My mistake.

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Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent

haunted bong posted:

Bret "The Wrong Brother Died" Hart
Agreed. Bruce is such a jerk.

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