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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Dylar Addict posted:

The Worst World Title Match of all time!!!!

*** stars.

Missed a minus there.

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Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Timby posted:

Wasn't he the primary backer of Goldberg's streak?

The streak was apparently Mike Tenays idea. His one big contribuition to wrestling history.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

TL posted:

I believe Belzer showed up as Munch once on the Wire, so I'm pretty sure it fits in there.

He did indeed. Which also means x-files is in the same continuity as Munch appeared there as well.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

MassRayPer posted:

This is not an exciting match.

Remember at the time there was a huge buzz about how this was the best ladder match since HBK and razor at WMX. It becomes more of a joke when 6 months later the Hardys and Edge and Christian reinvented the match at No Mercy.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Halloween Jack posted:

I know it was really obvious but I was immensely satisfied to hear Bret Hart say that Goldberg had been "hand-fed" all his opponents.

Are you suggesting Jerry Flynn and the Barbarian were not worthy of WCW world title shots?

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Bagwell could cut a decent promo when he wasn't being Buff or the Stuff. The segment when he returned from injury and forgave Rick Steiner for nearly ending his career was really touching stuff and got great reviews all round. A week later they did the same interview, this time with Hogan comming out interrupting the finish, an NWO sneak attack and Buff swerving everyone and going back to the NWO all in about 30 seconds.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

How did you forget 3 Count?

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

MrBling posted:

Yeah, SuperBrawl 2000. He was in a handicap against them, but I can't remember why.

The feud was simple and terrible in the way that most shows in the couple of months between Russo booking stints were.

Smiley made Shannon Moore tap out to the Norman Conquest. The next week he faced Evan Karagias and due to Shannon Moores incompetence made him tap out. As a result the victorious Smiley challenged 3 Count to a three on one handicap match at Superbrawl (a match already announced on the Sat night show the weekend past). The next week on nitro Smiley took on all three in a handicap match and made Evan tap out again due to Miss Hancock doing a dance on the stage. At this point the commentators and hype for the match became focused on the fact that Norman had made all three members of 3 Count tap out, despite Shane Helms never having done so.

At the PPV the following Sunday 3 Count won in a match that lasted about 3 minutes. Nobody cared.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Well the very next month 3 Count challenged and beat Brian Knobs for the hardcore champion making all three co-champs. At Uncensored Knobbs pinned all 3 in 4 and a half minutes to once more become sole WCW hardcore champion.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Lone Rogue posted:

Which SFX company is this? The sci-fi magazine, the music promotion company now owned by LiveNation or the Super FX chip suddenly alive?

The arena tour promotions company. They did music events and festivals and were in inital negociations to take over the event bookings. Bischoff had convinced them there was the potential to take over the entire company, with him effectively back in charge, which they pursued but were told in no uncertain terms that WCW was not for sale.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Ziggy Tsardust posted:

My friend has just given me a few burned DVDs with every episode of 2000 Nitro on them. I'm scared to watch.

If you have the Nitro which is just Mark Madden and Tony talking about how great Bischoff and Russo are, while also saying Nitro used to be good but now sucks, you are in for a very special treat.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

ChampRamp posted:

Which one is that one?

During the restart Niro and Thunder were taken off the air for a week. In their place were two 'best of' shows. The shows ended up being less about Nitro's in the past and ended up being circle jerks to the egos of both Bischoff and Russo. Add to this they pretty much came out and said 'Nitro sucks now.'

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Hogan was a close to last minute decision to be the third man. Eric was confident that he could snatch away Bret Hart who was off TV and negociating his 10 year contract with the WWF. Even up until the day of the turn Hogan was having doubts about participating in it.

Hogan was also filming one of his lovely movies at the time and was off TV 'injured.' Hog wild would have been his big return hence the poster.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

warbrides posted:

I always remember this whenever anyone says anything remotely bad about WCW. They really did do a lot (mostly by accident) to promote the future workers of the industry.

Well they mostly pissed off the next generation of talent so badly that when they had the opportunity to go to the WWE they had a point to prove.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

bobkatt013 posted:

There was a one week break where they showed a best of show then came a Russerific time.

The highlight of it was this wasn't a best of "WCW" show. It was all about Bischoff and Russo's writing. They even talked about crash tv booking and how it worked, and Bisch's tendancy to book on the fly. Why on earth they did these shows the way they did is a mystery.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Hogan and Bischoff's version of events is that Sting showed up looking pudgy almost as if he hadn't been working a weekly schedual for a year. Hogan felt that it would be "not fair to the rest of the guys on the card who work week in and week out" to see someone who wasn't in shape win the big belt. So the booking was adjusted to give much more to Hogan in the match.

And then of course the ending was "botched."

It was bullshit politics from start to finish, and a microcosm for everything wrong with WCW. Even after that match things were salvageable, if they had treated Sting in the right way. Instead his reign and the cathasis the fans yearned for was treated as an utter joke.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Stevie Ray explained the booking of WW3 in an interview. The gist was, "this is the guy who's winning it, make sure he doesn't get eliminated. Here's your final 6. If you're not in it get eliminated before then." It turns out the one spot that everyone remembers from it where Booker and Stevie squared off before thinking the better of it was something they came up with backstage 5 minutes before the match. It's a wonder the camera crew even caught it.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Its one of those things where there isn't much to go on. The lockerroom was happy and business was up slightly. Frye hasn't talked about it and really he is the only one who knows for sure. For what its worth Dusty was fired as booker a couple of days before he quit.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Monkeycheese posted:

did nitro get pared back down from 3 hours a week towards the end?

Nitro got cut down to 2 hours from the first show of 2000 due to the best efforts of Vince Russo. Russo felt that by cutting down to 2 hours (and thus only having one go up against raw) the average rating would go up thus making it appear that the show was on an upswing. What he didn't take into consideration was that by removing a whole hour of tv, they lost out on an hours worth of advertising.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

I like how the first part of their WCW history covers the first 8 years of WCW in under 600 words and yet still manages to be full of errors. Good stuff.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The hog wild match was so good that it was the first match they showed on RAW is Benoit.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

I think a lot of the backlash came from the fact Morrison won his title shot on a PPV which made people think that there was a chance they might actually put on a PPV without Cena or Orton involved in the title match.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The WWE channel has been pretty much a negotiating tool for years. You'll notice that they bring up the subject whenever they are having problems with broadcasters over schedualing or content. It's the corprate "we'll take our ball home if you don't play our way."

Thats not to make me think they won't eventually end up doing it. At some point someone will call their bluff and because Vince is a manchild who will never back down the channel will come into being.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Moose Bigelow posted:

He has a legit black belt in taekwondo and fought in professional martial arts tournaments so he probably got a "legit badass" push from the bookers that never came across on TV.

There was a quote on one of the WCW pre or post shows from the start of the Russo reign where he commented he saw a lot of talent in Flynn. "Can you imagine if the WWE had him up against Butterbean, instead of Bart Gunn? He would've been a big star."

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The booking of the "second streak" was some of the dumbest that WCW ever produced, particularly in it's conclusion. I will never cease to be amused Buff Bagwell was kayfabe responsible for the end of Goldbergs WCW career.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

flashy_mcflash posted:

The Beverly Brothers were worse than anyone. They were McGillitunga with lovely capes.

Most of the time I can just ignore posts that are blatantly wrong. I feel a slight inward cringe inside me and sigh at the sad state of wrestling fans now. Alas, this time you sir have gone too far. The Beverly Brothers were awesome.

I mean for starters Bloom and Enos are the ONLY TAG TEAM EVER to win the prestigious PWI rookie of the year award. As the destruction crew they were pretty much the last great thing going in the AWA creating more double team moves than anyone else that were stolen by everyone else. If you've seen a double team move that looks awesome, the chances were that they invented it.

When the AWA folded they moved to WCW under hoods as the Minnesota Wrecking crew 2, which was supposed to lead on to a "dream" match with the Steiners where they would unmask and start a reign of terror. The Ole Anderson went crazy or something and they were fired for something stupid.

In the WWE they may have had a poo poo gimmick, and may have had to tone down their flashy double team offence, but they could still work a hell of a match. The problem is that their PPV appearances mostly came against the Bushwackers who were just terrible, and their truely great matches, against say the Rockers or even the Natural Disasters were stuck on Superstars of Wrestling.

In short the Berverlies own. They had the genius as a manager. How could they not?

(Also they have a clean win over the Outsiders. How many people can claim that?)

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Suben posted:

Didn't they often not show vignettes or whatever to the announcers to (only to the TV audience) so things would happen but the announcers wouldn't know about it? Or was that only for Flair in the desert?

For a while they took away the announcers monitors for one reason or another, so not only did they not see some of the backstage segments but during clusterfuck matches they had no idea what the camera was focusing on.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

I posted:

I think I remember some testimony from that; Bischoff watching drunk as his wife and a stripper performed a 'Horizontal Tombstone Piledriver' on each other.

It's been strongly rumoured that somebody (Vince McMahon) got a copy of the transcript of it and passed it around back stage at a Raw taping. The story goes that when Bischoff came to the WWE later, people were quoting passages from it within ear shot of him.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

bobkatt013 posted:

So he was going to turn in the middle of the match? He was on Team WCW.

The back up plan was if Hogan wouldn't do the spot that Sting would've been taken out of the match the same way that Luger was (in the spot that teased a Luger turn)and then turn at the end of the match. Something amusing to note is that the thinking was that they couldn't turn Luger because he had turned so many times it would've been meaningless, but at the same time because everyone expected him to turn it made for a great misdirection spot.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The best part of darkside hogan is the promo where him and Savage are hanging about on Venice beach with a couple of homeless people. It's one of the most surreal segments I've ever seen, though I'm sad to say I can't seem to find it on youtube anymore.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

DreamingApe posted:

didn't they start airing nitro and thunder back to back after a while?

They had a 5 hour of pain slot on a friday night, that went head to head with raw. It was great for channel hopping, but absolutely horrible to try and watch in one sitting.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

I have three Russo shoot interviews. All three contradict each other. Two were filmed in a week of each other.

Oh and they all contradict his book.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

I've considered doing it before, and if I have time over the weekend I'll give it another shot. The thing that's always stopped me is that Russo doesn't have a voice that you can listen to for 9 hours straight without doing long term damage to your ear drums.

While on the subject of Russo, I really want to get on his "writing wrestling for television" course. From the press release

quote:

I will teach you:

–How to get started in writing for a major company;
–How to get your foot in the door;
–How to create larger-than-life personalities;
–Writing effective dialogue for specific characters;
–How to format a wrestling show;
–How to generate new ideas 52 weeks a year;
–How to sell your ideas to talent;
–How to create a successful working environment between talent and writer;
–Dealing with egos;
–Overcoming writer’s block;
–Avoiding the pitfalls of politics;
–How to generate ratings; and
–The difference between writing and booking

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

CopywrightMMXI posted:

I was at the library earlier today, and they had a book by Vince Russo. I think it was called "How WCW Killed Me" or something along those lines. Has anyone read this book? I didn't bother borrowing it, but if it's an entertaining trainwreck I will go there tomorrow.

Rope Opera: How WCW killed Vince Russo posted:

I cry when I think of all the sacrifices the family have made for a business that will never give a drat about any of us. A business that will never know any of you personally, but wanted to take you all down at my expense. I apologize for the time I took from each of you, while handing it to a locker room full of ungrateful wrestlers who only cared about themselves — with the exception of few. I can't get that time back and I know that it was a mistake.

It's a trainwreck. Read it if you get a chance.

Edit: Fun fact. He originally pitched the book as a tv series.

Skinty McEdger fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 4, 2012

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Well the first class would be really exciting and well put together to the point where you have high expectations for the rest of the course. However in week four you suddenly find the class is now about making bonnets.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Edit ^^ One of them also thought it would be a fantastic career move to get covered in neo nazi tattoos.

Z-Magic posted:

Wait what? Is this a thing or a joke? All UK soap operas are about working-class people leading horrible lives and being miserable.

Dynasty spin off The Colby's ended with one of the lead characters being abducted by aliens, Dark Shadows had a vampire as one of the main characters. The rules are different, as much as the auidences are.

Skinty McEdger fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Apr 5, 2012

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Lone Rogue posted:

After Starrcade they did some thing where they sent Goldberg to jail because Liz said he touched her.

And of course it turned out to be a false rape accusation. Because thats what all stories really need.

Everyone involved hated this angle by the way, and it was never mentioned ever again on nitro.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Want to know how to book like Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara? You can now!

(This is really loving long. Each video is an hour.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyz4Yssl3bA -Part One: WWF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8DPI0N8m00 - More WWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg4NP0Ow15w - WCW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JutVm-Uu9Y0 - General Q&A

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

All Russo's shoots kind of blur into one for me, but I seem to recall on this one he comes out with the "I can't write something I know to be untrue. I know wrestling is fake so how can I pretend its not."

Russo doesn't understand fiction.

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Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Lone Rogue posted:

Was this where he said that people want to see American wrestlers and not foreigners?

"I'm going tell you something right now that you will absolutely not agree with, but I've been a wrestling fan my whole life and I will live and die by this. It's hard enough, believe me, I write this poo poo, it's hard enough to get somebody over. You will never ever, ever, ever, ever see the Japanese wrestlers or the Mexican wrestlers over in American mainstream wrestling. And the simple reason for that is, even myself, I'm an American and I don't want to sound like a big bigot or a racist or anything like that, but I'm an American. If I'm watching wrestling here in America, I don't give a poo poo about a Japanese guy. I don't give a poo poo about a Mexican guy. I'm from America, and that's what I want to see."

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