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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Jerusalem posted:

Bischoff: Sting is lying on his back, the letters nWo burning into his belly as he beats his legs trying to turn himself over... but he can't, not without your help, but you're not helping.
Sid: What do you mean I'm not helping?
Bischoff: I mean, you're not helping. Why is that Sid? Did you forget your scissors?
Sid: My scissors?
Bischoff: DID YOU FORGET YOUR SCISSORS!?!

Assuming this is the actual quote from that reboot Nitro, that really should have tipped Russo/Bischoff/Russchoff when 99% of the crowd had no idea what they were referring to.

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CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Vertical Lime posted:

Between this and having the "buried" young guys as heels among other things during that show I knew the reboot wouldn't work, even as the internet at the time was loving it.

As I came to understand it, the New Blood was SUPPOSED to be the faces and the Millionaires' Club was supposed to be the heels, but the MC was mostly guys like Flair, Hogan, and DDP, perceived legends on the roster that the crowd had little interest in booing, AND they were far outnumbered by the NB so they were overcoming the odds. It was a mess.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


poo poo, I'd pay top dollar to see them do it NOW.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Not to mention that they're apparently renovating the look of the Impact Zone for his debut show, something they did in WCW as well.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


I think the main reason that WCW is thought of as a joke company is that when it was at its worst, it was so unbelievably, inconceivably bad. Not to mention that the younger Internet wrestling fans weren't around/don't remember WCW in its prime or the 85-week period when it topped RAW in the ratings.

I saw at least bits and pieces of every single Nitro (and most Thunders). WCW is fascinating in that its peak was so awesome and its valley was so dreadful. I don't think any company can have that kind of variation, but WCW pulled it off.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Captain Charisma posted:

I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a WWF/E period as wretched as WCW 99-01.

I'm going to agree with this. WWE has had segments that have been wretched, but WCW had SHOWS like that. Hell, they had a three-hour Nitro when the first match started around 9:15 or so (it was an 8-11 show).

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


bobkatt013 posted:

Well they will only get hurt if they are a heel

Fixed for TNA.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Norman Smiley had one of the all-time greatest segments when he and Ralphus invaded that backyard wrestling fed.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


oldpainless posted:

I don't know if your being sarcastic about the dumbing down part. But not hating anyone surprises me. I would think he hates like at least half the people in the industry. But why does he hate Bagwell? They were such good friends in the NWO!!

Wasn't there an incident when Bagwell took the piss out of Scott in an interview, dressing like him and doing an impression of him, and then Scott beat the everloving poo poo out of him at the PPV?

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Rodney the Piper posted:

I keep meaning to type up a thing about some other dumb WCW thing, but I keep getting distracted by various shiny things. I did, however, come across the Shooter Mark Curtis while going over DDTDigest recaps. That brought back some smiles. I miss Shooter.

Shooter ruled. He was the ref that UFC'd the one fan who ran in, right?

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


That might not have even been WCW's worst bracket for a title. Wasn't there a world title tournament bracket that was absolutely hosed?

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Skinty McEdger posted:

http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/...us.html#world99

Russo's first shows in WCW. It should be pointed out that nearly every match went less than 5 minutes, and that there were angles in nearly every match.

Aha, thank you much. I always hated that the matches mostly went way short; it seemed like it was killing off the title's importance.

My favorite part of the bracket: Medusa getting two entries!

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Rodney the Piper posted:

I just thought of something I've never seen and have only read about.

Basically, WCW called up a guy from the Power Plant that they were allegedly very high on. They put him in a match with DDP. During this match, the new guy climbed to the top rope, leading to DDP running into the ropes as a normal set up for the 'crotch yourself on the turnbuckle' thing.

Instead of doing it, said new guy screamed at the top of his lungs and hurled himself into the ring.

The new guy was never heard from again.

I think he may have worn a mask, but I can't Google anything up.

DDP vs. The Machine. It happened on Thunder. It was very hilarious.

Here. http://www.wrestlinggonewrong.com/v...hine_ropes.html

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Quarex posted:

At the urging of my dear friend NAME OF FRIEND, I have opted to enter this thread to post my favorite WCW what-in-the-world-is-happening moment of all.

Lex Luger ... is becoming ... ... the Total Package.

http://www.ddtdigest.com/updates/1999094m.htm

Ever since I first saw this moment, I have been referring to it as possibly the most completely meaningless wrestling moment I can think of in WCW history. As you can sort of tell from the above recap, at some point during this show, there was a funeral held for Lex Luger. Toward the end of the show, Lex Luger came out, with dramatic spot-lighting and an elegant robe, and started to do muscle poses in the center of the ring while the announcers explained that he was "becoming the Total Package before our very eyes," or something very close to that.

It was probably years afterward before I started laughing out loud every time I thought of it. There is a very good chance that it was not quite as hilarious as I recall, but I would give anything to see that dramatic pose-down again.

Oh my god this may have been the most hilarious thing to happen in WCW, and that's saying something.

The best part is that he was still the same loving Lex Luger afterward.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Von Linus posted:

I'd love to see the first Scott Hall invasion episode of Nitro. I've seen the clip of him arriving, but I'd like to see what the whole show looked like

gently caress it, I'd like to see all the nitros, I've never really seen one.

The show blew aside from Hall's appearance. You aren't missing much.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Skinty McEdger posted:

Seven. WCW's attempt at Golddust 2.0.

And then the first time he made an appearance, he slammed the gimmick and bitched out the writers for making him a joke.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Moose Bigelow posted:

You should watch him on the 24/7 roundtable he was on. Completely full of poo poo about not wanting to put WWE out of business.

Wasn't that the one where he was surrounded by four through-and-through WWE guys? If so, it's understandable that he didn't jump out and go "hell yeah we wanted to BANKRUPT all you mofos."

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Moose Bigelow posted:

I can understand that but I still hate that oval office.

Also understandable. I, too, have his book, and it's so contradictory it's hilarious. It certainly lends credence to the theory that any wrestling book ever written should be taken with a truckload of salt.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


The best part is that there are teams, but there is one individual winner. So what the gently caress are the teams for?

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


LividLiquid posted:

The last Wargames before this had the same drat problem. The guy who scored the pinfall (Page) got a title shot. It was a zero-sum game, so why the teams?

And now you reminded me of maybe the worst PPV main event ever.

Wargames 2000 was a prime example of the Nitro Swerve...two heels tease dissension, only to have been FAKING IT AND THEY WERE IN CAHOOTS ALL ALONG!

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Captain Charisma posted:

I don't feel like watching it, but is that where Goldberg speared Russo out of the cage, but Russo was holding the belt

No, that was a straight-up cage match between Booker T. and Russo.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Skinty McEdger posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T22TnNMftw (5:30 onwards.)

I had forgotten how terrible that came off.

The best part is the announcers acting shocked and NOBODY else getting it, not even Sid.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


chazburgr posted:

I love the crowd making GBS threads all over this segment. Even when WCW was "rebooting" no one could get interested. In fact they were cheering for Sid.

IIRC they were trying to get the New Blood over as the faces and the old guys over as heels, but all the old guys were the top faces from years past, so good luck with that one.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Pope Corky the IX posted:

I also remember hearing a story about Sid attacking Brian Pillman with a squeegee and Pillman beating the poo poo out of him.

The story I heard was that Pillman kicked his rear end, THEN Sid went and found a squeegee, and when he came back, Pillman was gone.

I'm shocked Bischoff didn't say, "Not so tough without a SQUEEGEE, eh Sid?"

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


LightsGameraAction posted:

I just watched the Monday Night Wars DVD with my girlfriend the other night and one thing I was aware of at the time but which I'm still surprised by when I see it is how many people were in the nWo at one point in time. How do you have a competitive roster with that many people on the same team?

Also I never saw the promo where Bischoff called Vince out to a fight before. I couldn't stop chuckling, it was just so awkward and nerdy looking.

On the 24/7 Legends of Wrestling roundtable about stables, they go around the table listing their opinions of the best/worst stables of all time, and their worst stables are all like The Union, The Oddities, and then Ric Flair lists the nWo, and nobody really bats an eye because his rationale (a stable should make everybody within the stable better, as well as draw money because people should want to see the stable get its comeuppance, among other things) is so ironclad.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


That is a genius point that I have never thought of until I read it just now.

And assuming the cameramen from RAW couldn't follow them, I'd DEFINITELY turn to Nitro to see what was going on. At the worst I'd have been flipping back and forth like a madman.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


I know it's overplayed to do the WCW/TNA comparisons but:

WCW brought a local radio host into the storyline (Jimmy Hart challenging DJs and facing Mancow on PPV...TWICE if I am not mistaken)
TNA brought a local radio host into the storyline (Bubba the Love Sponge being a mediator between Hogan and Jarrett as well as a backstage interviewer)

Also a couple other things that sucked about WCW that should get more attention (and might have in this topic already):

Riki Rachtman and Spring Breakout (with one exception)
DJ Ran
Buff Bagwell's "fake" fake matches
What happened to the world title immediately after Benoit left the company

But WCW had a few diamonds in the rough:
The one Spring Breakout with a psychotic young woman who loved David Flair and ended up saving David's rear end at a PPV (DAFFNEY!!!)
Anything Norman Smiley did (my personal favorite: Smiley and Ralphus raid a backyard wrestling fed, steal the title with a screwjob, and run like hell)
Tank Abbott finding a niche as 3 Count's groupie (the guy seemed to be genuinely loving the gig)

I am forgetting many more. I will post them if I can remember.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Von Dozier posted:



Shane Douglas and "classy" don't belong in the same sentence.

*resists making Dean Douglas joke*

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


oldpainless posted:

I've always ranked hogan/goldberg along with hogan/Austin as the two biggest ppv moneymakers that could have been done in a company but never were. At least in the last decade or so

This is probably true, but Hogan/Austin was discussed at one point and allegedly neither man wanted to job to the other (Hogan because he doesn't job for anybody, and Austin probably because Hogan poo poo all over him in WCW).

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


I think you should watch it. Everyone should see just how bad wrestling pay-per-views can truly be.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Lamuella posted:

this thread just reminds me of the astounding waste of potential that was the Invasion. The whole thing felt doomed from the start after they began with Booker T defending the heavyweight title against Buff Bagwell of all people.

Does anyone think that WWF owning WCW could have worked out better (for example if they'd had them as genuinely their own promotion rather than the weak bad guys led by the McMahon kids), or was there never any real chance of it not sucking?

Didn't they also do WCW Raw in Seattle, when they could have saved it for like a week and had it be in Atlanta (aka Turnerland)?

Given the gratuitous egos involved, I don't think it ever had a chance to be anything but disappointing.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


The main event of the next-to-last Nitro was Ric Flair and Jeff Jarrett kissing a donkey's rear end. I just thought we needed to be reminded of that.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Moose Bigelow posted:

And the first 6 years of nitro had people kissing Hogan's rear end.

Sorry, the correct response was "I thought Hogan left WCW before the next to last Nitro."

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Has DDP done any wrestling since his WWE run?

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Oh DDP.

At least he's not broken down like so many other old wrestlers. I'm amazed he's 53, only three years younger than Hogan.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


My three favorite wrestlers in WCW were DDP, Ric Flair, and Goldberg in some order. DDP ruled.

Edit: I love the Diamond Cutter so much. The powerbomb into Diamond Cutter spot is just great because there is absolutely no reason to do it, but he did it anyway.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


Sionistic posted:

What would of been great is if they could of had a longer match, where eddie keeps countering the cutter over and over. So ddp eventually just thinks "how the hell can i hit the cutter on him, I know, he would never expect that poo poo from a powerbomb!"

That would be the greatest match of all time.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


TL posted:

I loved, loved, loved DDP's match with Goldberg at Halloween Havoc. Watch the crowd completely lose their poo poo when Page reverses the Jackhammer into the Diamond Cutter.

Diamond Cutter>RKO

The best part of this match is that they aired it for free on Nitro the night after because of their cable fuckup. One of the happiest nights of my wrestling fandom.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


I think the number for Master P was either 100k or 200k per appearance.

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CVagts
Oct 19, 2009


LividLiquid posted:

It was Vince Russo, so he'd probably turn it into an angle.

This is absolutely right. There would have been a three week long feud between Chavo and the winner, where the announcers infer to Chavo being booked to win but the winner going into business for himself without flatout saying it, and then the angle would be dropped without warning.

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