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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
View Results
 
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Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
That Nuggets thing resulted in Mr Kennedy getting fired iirc

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Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013

Randaconda posted:

Kennedy got fired for constantly putting people in danger with his lovely, unsafe ring work. Orton, Cena, HBK and Trips all complained about it to Vince.

True but I remember reading the mood Vince was in was that somebody was going to get canned and Kennedy dropped Orton on his shoulder that week so it was a perfect storm.

Fake edit: what were Kennedy's other gently caress ups with the other guys?

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Bret was a member of NWO Hollywood for a short period. Commentary would point out that Bret was playing his own game because he wasn't wearing NWO colours but was recruiting for them. Then there was a bit on Nitro where Bret called out the rumours that he wasn't a member of NWO Hollywood and revealed that he had Hogan's back and put on a black and white shirt.

Bret was also on the Hollywood team for Halloween Havoc but I think there might have been some kind of feud between him and Hogan at this point because Hogan had Stevie Ray KO every other person in that match.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
HBK would have been steam rolled by bigger fish had he decided to politick in WCW. Shawn played on Vince's insecurities and weird inferiority complex. Bischoff would have just sent him home while paying him six figures.

Shawn also got away with so much because everything WWF did from mid 95 onwards was to prep the landscape for Shawn carrying the company. Turning face by having Sid kick his rear end after WM11, getting beaten up by the marines (was this acknowledged on TV? He had the bruises), the concussion angle with Owen Hart the heroic comeback and Rumble win, the special entrance at WM12. Shawn wouldn't have gotten any of this treatment in WCW and he likely knew it.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Why did Rick Rude and Brian Adams walk after Montreal? Why were they in particular so pissed off with the screwjob that they jumped to WCW with Anvil and Bulldog?

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Konnan was just kind of weird in general.

I'm watching Nitros from the same time period. What happened to The Leprechaun who joined the Dungeon for one episode then never appeared again?

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I think it was in 99/00 during one of Trips early reigns.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Fantasy booking: Sting wins the title at Starrcade 97 and moves away from the NWO to feud with Bret Hart. NWO splits into two factions, with Wolfpac putting away Hollywood at Wargames and dropping the NWO name. Goldberg remains undefeated and wins his first world title from either Bret or Sting. Goldberg beats all comers Hogan, DDP, Nash, a returning Savage, Flair backed by a reformed Horsemen and eventually moves into a feud with Scott Steiner.

There, I fixed your crappy company Bischoff.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I've just watched a couple of Nitros and Thunders from November 98 and Scott Norton defends the IWGP Heavyweight title against both Lodi and Van Hammer in separate matches.

And the absurdity of this image made me laugh so much, I had to screen shot it.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I really liked bad guys from outside WCW coming in to target Goldberg. Sid and Bam Bam would have been great Monsters of the Week if WCW wasn't a shambles by early 1999.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I just watched the episode where Scott Steiner thanks Buff Bagwell for giving him permission to beat up his mom, so Steiner returns the favour by allowing Bagwell to beat up his mom.

Some powerplant trainee in drag comes out and gets a beat down. Rick Steiner is apparently fooled by the disguise and runs in for the save until he realises he's been duped.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
https://twitter.com/MengsMullet/status/1370995739325775874?s=20

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
It's a shame Warrior was such a garbage person because I would wear the hell out of that otherwise.

Likewise this Hogan t-shirt.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
For some reason, Larry was really over as an announcer in WCW, often leaving the booth while Schiavone was addressing the camera, to acknowledge the Larry chants.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Backlund was portrayed as old during his second run. I remember being really impressed how this old man lasted so long in the 93 Rumble.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Flair's doctor appeared on Nitro and said Flair hadn't had a heart attack but instead had been poisoned (with the implication it was done by Curt Hennig on Bischoff's orders).

Nash burying Wrath was stupid but Nash had history with Bryan Clark. I think Clark was a Kliq enemy in WWF and Nash & Hall totally buried Wrath and Mortis in a tag match on a 97 Nitro. Nash mocks Wrath to the camera and is probably drunk.

Late 98 WCW into 99 is just awful. Not even so bad it's good - it's just boring.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I'm watching old Raw's from 96 and Hennig and Triple H just tricked Marc Mero out of the IC title. Where did Hennig disappear to? I don't recall him going to WCW this early.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
What exactly was the beef between Bischoff and Guerrero? Was it before or after Eddie's drunk driving incident? Because I remember reading something along the lines of Eddie had been promised a new generous contract by Bischoff, got into his accident a day before he was due to sign, then Bischoff did him a solid and honoured the contract anyway when he could have pulled the offer. Eddie expressed how thankful he was.

E:

Fin Martin of Powerslam magazine posted:

Eddie Guerrero almost killed himself when he ran his car off the road on the early morning of January 1. High on GHB, Guerrero passed out at the wheel of his TransAm and drove off an embankment and into a ditch at high speed. Like Brian Pillman in 1996, Guerrero was thrown from the vehicle before it rolled. Had he been strapped into the vehicle, he would have been crushed. Guerrero revealed in his autobiography, Cheating Death, Stealing Life, that it was a suicide attempt, provoked by an argument with his wife Vickie. Eddie and Vickie had frequently quarrelled over Eddie’s drinking and drug-taking, mostly. Prior to the accident, the extent of Guerrero’s alcohol and drug consumption was known only to his family and close friends. Guerrero was remarkably candid about his excesses in his memoirs, and the misery and embarrassment it caused to those around him. He even admitted that he drank so much at his nephew Chavo’s wedding, at which he served as best man, that he passed out and had to be carried from the room. This had followed another bust-up with Vickie in front of the entire wedding party. Guerrero suffered massive injuries in the car crash: a lacerated liver, a broken collarbone and hip socket, and serious damage to vertebrae and his calf and thigh. The initial prognosis was that he would not wrestle again. He returned to action in a match with Juventud Guerrera on the June 21, 1999 Monday Nitro. Guerrero admitted in an interview with PS on December 27, 2001 that he had returned to WCW prematurely: “I made the mistake that everybody told me not to: I came back too soon,” he said. “I was told to take between eight months and a year off, and I was back on TV after five-and-a-half months. On the outside, I was pretty much healed up, but inside, I still hadn’t healed completely.” The pain from the accident led Guerrero to increase his pain medication and alcohol consumption. The bumps in the ring only upped his intake. A final point about Guerrero regarding this period of his career: he was forever grateful to Eric Bischoff for standing by him following the car accident. Guerrero told me in the aforementioned interview, published in Issue 91 of PS: “A lot of people don’t know this, but my [WCW] contract was up [on December 31, 1998]. When I crashed, I had not signed a new contract. Eric Bischoff then sent me a new contract — with a substantial raise. We had talked about the deal and agreed on it before the accident, but I had never signed it. And he sent the contract to me, not knowing if I was ever going to be able to wrestle again. The contract was for three years — complete deal. That’s how much he cared. A lot of people say bad things about Eric Bischoff, but, when I was in trouble, he came through for me. He did that. I still remember signing the contract in hospital.”

Kosmo Gallion fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jul 26, 2021

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
There's a generic piece of stock music called Short But Thick that was given to a couple of "dark" wrestlers in WCW. Raven used it before going to no theme then his famous Come As You Are rip-off, as well as Vampiro. I'm sure it was used by Dungeon of Doom too.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I was a late-comer to WCW and the first Nitro I ever saw was the one where Curt Hennig joined the NWO and presented Hogan with Ric Flair's robe. I thought then that the NWO were the coolest thing I'd ever seen, I didn't realise how long they'd already been around for.

I guess the civil war storyline could have worked but some things got in the way. Savage getting injured, Hogan stepping away from the main event to wrestle Jay Leno/Karl Malone, Bret Hart, Warrior, Piper and Goldberg overcrowding the main event, Flair and the Horsemen reuniting to feud with Bischoff specifically etc.

A satisfying ending would be for the Horsemen and the Wolfpac to form an uneasy alliance to break apart a declining NWO Hollywood, with Wolfpac winning the Wargames match.

Bret Hart should have been nowhere near the NWO storyline and should have been putting on bangers with DDP, Sting, Benoit.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Bischoff is actually a really great on screen character and performer, and I'd like more guest appearances from him in AEW. He knows that he's the weasely bad guy and has no trouble allowing himself to be humiliated by the baby-face.

That being said, some of his over indulgent Nitro segments like the Talk Show or sitting on his motorbike in a spotlight while talking about personal beefs were very tedious.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Austin v Bret III at WrestleMania 14 is probably one of the greatest 'lost' matches of all time.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
When was the first time WCW copied WWF by doing a backstage segment? Not an interview or promo, just wrestlers interacting in the locker room or wherever.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
The NWO stuff is really dragging by December 98. Scott and Buff are quite a fun heel double act who really don't need to be part of the NWO. Everyone else in Hollywood is just B-Team. Even the Wolfpac was losing steam as it was down to just Nash, Konnan and Luger.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Is that Minoru Suzuki at the bottom? Did he ever wrestle for All Japan?

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
NWO Wolfpac Hogan turning face and CEO Flair turning heel. I'd given up on WCW as a kid when the Wolfpac super unit formed so I went back to watch some old Nitros from that time period.

Flair who has finally put a huge dent in NWO power by wrestling the Presidency away from Bischoff is randomly turned heel and Hogan, who has spent nearly three years trying to bury WCW, for some reason, is now getting cheered.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Can somebody explain That's The Wall Brother! to me? I stopped watching WCW around the early 99 and I've only seen this meme crop up in the past five years or so but never understood it. I do remember Berlyn and The Wall though.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
The NWO theme is a bunch of Jimi Hendrix tracks welded together. Likewise the Harlem Heat theme was the same, and one of the tracks it lifts from is a Kraftwerk tune.

E: it's actually two Kraftwerk songs

https://youtu.be/ix07wGATlHk
https://youtu.be/O0lIlROWro8

Kosmo Gallion fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jun 28, 2022

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013

edogawa rando posted:

Didn't one of the WCW themes turn up in a porno?

I think it was Chris Benoit's theme.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Stevie Richards once tweeted me a YouTube video about the HAARP weather station conspiracy.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Hebner is a really bad ref. Watching old Raws and SmackDowns, he makes so many mistakes, especially during tag matches. Mistiming interference spots, staring straight at wrestlers when they cheat when he's supposed to be looking elsewhere, as well as trying to get himself over. A lot of the bad faith criticism levelled at Aubrey, Hebner is actually guilty of.. Just an awful awful referee.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I still find it hard to believe Eminem or Marilyn Manson never appeared on WWF TV during the Attitude Era.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Late 1996 and all of 1997 were great for WCW. I've found the episodes of Nitro after the NWO formed really interesting. You should watch the Diamond Dallas Page vs Randy Savage feud, because it's probably the last great thing Savage ever did as a wrestler. They wrestle three matches at Spring Stampede, The Great American Bash and Halloween Havoc, all in 1997.

There's also a side-quest match of DDP and Curt Hennig vs Savage and Scott Hall at Bash At The Beach which leads to DDP vs Curt Hennig at Starrcade 97, possibly Hennig's last ever good match.

1998 isn't as good as 97 but there are some gems out there: the DDP vs Raven vs Chris Benoit saga, DDP vs Sting on Nitro, Goldberg vs Hollywood Hogan on Nitro, the rise of Booker T as a singles guy and finall, DDP vs Goldberg at Halloween Havoc. Then WCW pretty much falls off a cliff in 99 and never recovers.

Man, I just realised DDP was doing some heavy lifting keeping WCW watchable in the '90s.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Can't wait to read 300 pages of Bischoff insulting anybody that's ever disagreed with him, calling them marks.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
What was WCW like during 2001? I've often heard it was pretty good, or at least, not the dreadful mess 99 and 2000 were. I'm thinking about doing a rewatch of all the Nitros, Thunders and PPVs from January onward but wanted to get a quick overview from anyone who might know.

All I remember from dipping in and out of it as a teen was Ric Flair's magnificent seven stable, with Road Warrior Animal wrestling in Chavo Guerro matches. Plus the Cruiserweight Tag title tournament.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
The commentary assumed Jeff Jarrett was the newest NWO member when he debuted but it wasn't him. The swerve was it was either The Giant or Syxx instead, I forget which.

Curt Hennig joined up and teamed with DDP before turning heel on him, but didn't join the NWO until the autumn after betraying the Horsemen. Hennig also betrayed the Wolfpac for Hollywood in 98. I remember a great promo of him and Rude laughing at Hennig's chronic backstabbing disorder and that Rude was the only person Hennig would never betray. They both shared an uneasy suspicious look after.

Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Ted Dibiase, Vincent, Syxx, Brian Adams, Rick Rude all debuted in WCW as NWO members.

Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Ray Traylor, Michael Wallstreet, The Nasty Boys, Curt Hennig, Scott Steiner, The Disciple, Lex Luger, Bret Hart, Jeff Jarrett, and The Harris Twins were all established in WCW before jumping to the NWO.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
Crowd fund buying the Nash collection imo.

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Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I hope Hogan and Andre were able to settle their grievances and reconcile in the days after Hogan body slammed him.

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