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Lone Rogue posted:It's a disappointment the matches were so short. Some of them sound like a lot of fun and it's a good idea in concept. In concept. Some of them do, but most just sound horrible. I also double Hennig/Jarrett was that good since Hennig gave zero poo poo throughout his WCW career and especially after the Flair feud ended. Miller vs Leroux? Ugh. Hall vs Sid? Yikes. Sting vs Knobs? Buff Bagwell vs STEVIE RAY? Holy poo poo, I need to see that match. I have no memory of it, it must have been something else. There's a handful of interesting matches, and just a huge helping of horrible.
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Jan 11, 2010 21:38
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The low point of the WCW Heavyweight Title, and its worst champion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHsa3tOVlIA It isn't who you'd think! Just think, he'll be back on TNA TV soon to feud with Eric Bischoff.
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Jan 16, 2010 09:05
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STAC Goat posted:
By the time, do you mean 1999, or the nWo era? In the first half of 1999, WCW had a great tag division. But from 1996-2000, WCW had a really bad tag division. The Steiners were way past their prime. Harlem Heat were never really a good team because Stevie Ray was so awful. And the belts were often just on the Outsiders as a vanity thing. On top of this you had stuff like Sting vs The Giant in a singles match for the tag titles.
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Jan 17, 2010 23:05
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Proof that Flair, even in his old age could wrestle a broomstick to a *** match. HIS OPPONENT, HAILING FROM NEW YORK CITY, VINCE RUSSO! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb34HzbvElA
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Jan 20, 2010 05:09
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I found something better. I hope I haven't already posted this, but I don't think I have... WAR GAMES 2000: RUSSO'S REVENGE! http://www.youtube.com/user/hitman2010#p/u/5/Kcdlj0urAg0 I just wish when Tony said "The rules are" he followed it up with "Simple." Since there is nothing simpler than War Games staggered entrances in a 3 tiered cage where a wrestler must retrieve the belt from the top cage and then escape to to the door in the 1st floor with the belt to win. Sound like the lightning round of almost every Nick game show of the 80s and early 90s to anyone?
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Jan 21, 2010 08:37
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Dylar Addict posted:Slime doesn't fall on anyone so no This was WCW in 2000. Goo was falling out of the ceiling nearly every week! You also had people finding prizes in boxes, wild and crazy kids doing stunts onto crash pads, and all sorts of nuttyness! I think I know all of Russo's secrets.
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Jan 21, 2010 08:42
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LividLiquid posted:That's actually incredibly simple. Get the belt, leave with the belt. What's difficult about it? The only thing they hosed up was everything else. No it isn't. First of all, it involves THREE CAGES. You need to climb up the structure through three cages to get the belt. So, you've combined a cage match with a ladder match. On top of this, the second cage is full of weapons. So you've combined a weapons match, a cage match, and a ladder match. Then you add in the War Games teams. So you've got a Team based Cage match combined with a ladder match combined with a weapons match. War Games has Royal Rumble entrances, so you have a Royal Rumble style staggered entrances in a team based triple cage/ladder/weapons match. On top of this, the teams had to qualify for the match, and some of the matches were handi cap matches. THAT IS loving COMPLICATED! In its most simple form, wrestling matches are: Two Guys Fight in a ring. In its most simple form this match is: 8 Guys who enter at different times fight while attempting to climb up three cages to get a belt and then attempt to escape with the belt.
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Jan 21, 2010 09:14
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Captain Charisma posted:I don't feel like watching it, but is that where Goldberg speared Russo out of the cage, but Russo was holding the belt I thought this was the match that happened too but was surprised when it wasn't.
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Jan 21, 2010 22:41
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DDP did another Figure 4 Daily interview today, and this time instead of just talking about YRG for half an hour, he talked about WCW too! DDP interviews are the best since even if he's gone a bit insane with organic food, he's got this positive energy that is always awesome to listen to even if he is just plugging something. First, he told the story behind THE BEST DIAMOND CUTTER EVER: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMz1rAUlIc Basically, this was during the build up to Bash at the Beach 98, so they wanted to keep putting DDP over strong, so they put him with Eddie, since who better to make someone look awesome? Backstage Eddie suggests they do a Diamond Cutter out of a powerbomb. DDP asks him how the gently caress they could do that. "Just get me on your shoulders, give me a boost and I'll do the rest." DDP's reaction, according to him was a total shoot, he was so excited that it worked that he started celebrating right then and there, and then pinned him. He also said his favorite match with Savage was the first one where Savage put him over. Why? Because before the show Arn asked him what he wanted to do in the match and Savage says "I want to take the Diamond Cutter" offering to put DDP over at a time when Savage put NO ONE over clean, and almost no one over in general. The reaction was so huge that night that they had to go with it from there. Edit: Also here's a pro tip if you are a big DDP fan and are on Facebook. On his last time on F4D he said he doesn't mind friend requests on facebook, but please at least send him a message too to let him know you are a fan and why. (Otherwise he just ignores the friend request.) So a few subscribers did so and sent him a message about why they were a fan and particularly happy memories of his matches, or if he had inspired them in some way... And the genuine people got a message back from DDP, or comments on pictures they had posted, or stuff like that. And not just a thanks, but pretty lengthy, detailed replies that showed he had actually read their message and their profile. To me, that's really loving cool. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jan 23, 2010 |
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Jan 23, 2010 11:50
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After listening to DDP last night I wanted to rewatch his excellent match with Sting from Nitro in March of 99. Instead, I found this, a match full of Vince Russo calling cards. Sting and DDP vs The Total Package and David Flair http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H96ZOxhTX4 Watch this match. The entrances are much longer than the match itself. It's No DQ for whatever reason, there's a beheaded teddy bear, partners who hate each other, and even Bobby Heenan has no idea what is going on. Edit: But after you watch that, watch this: Sting vs DDP for DDP's WCW Title. It was from April, not March so I had trouble finding it. This is a great, long TV match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRjAsdlwPU4 MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jan 24, 2010 |
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Jan 24, 2010 03:31
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LividLiquid posted:Do any of you have any reason to believe that the New Blood were supposed to be anything but heels aside from, "I want WCW to have been dumber than they already were, god dammit!" Because the entire storyline was "THE OLD GUYS ARE HOLDING THE YOUNG GUYS DOWN" which makes the OLD GUYS LOOK LIKE HEELS. And the way Bischoff talked up the era made it sounds like the young guys were going to be babyfaces. On top of this, the initial promo Russo and Bischoff cut laid it out that way too. The old guys were huge dicks who were holding the young guys down. And because most of the old guys were heels before the era began and Kidman and Vampiro were babyfaces. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jan 24, 2010 |
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Jan 24, 2010 11:41
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The entire New Blood stable was not supposed to be faces nor were the old guys all supposed to be heels. But people are forgetting the context of the time and what THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE SAID ON THE RECORD. The entire idea of the first Nitro of the reboot was to recapture the 18-35 demographic they had lost. Eric Bischoff was asked by Meltzer the next night on Wrestling Observer Live what he planned to do about how "uncool" WCW had become in the eye of the casual fan, specifically young viewers. Bischoff specifically said that the WWF had changed in a way WCW couldn't change, since TNT and TBS wouldn't allow the same sort of adult product. But instead, WCW could do things that challenged the fans, did things they couldn't predict, and surprise them. Obviously, Jeff Jarrett was not intended to be a face. But the idea behind the Hogan/Kidman feud was that younger male viewers would tune in and see this old guy cutting a pretty heelish promo on a young guy (after Bischoff and Russo had exposed how he "held people down") and Kidman wouldn't stand for it, and go after Hogan. Guys like the Filthy Animals were supposed to very much be cool tweeners who did heelish things for a reason to both babyfaces and heels. Remember, this is the time when SHADES OF GREY ruled all and Russo still to this days believes faces and heels in the traditional sense don't exist. Look how heelish the faces are in TNA, how often they cheat, overwhelm the heels with numbers, and how no one knew who the heels and babyfaces were at many times in TNA's history. They also tried to over reach toward the smarks with lots of insider references and storytelling. Bischoff specifically admits this and thinks it was a mistake. You also had very divided leadership at the top in WCW. Bischoff and Russo hate each other. When Bischoff was on WOL in 2001, he was nearly gleeful in laughing at Russo's failures. Just look at how quickly the whole thing fell apart when the shades of grey poo poo didn't work and no one got behind guys like Kidman. The New Blood had fallen apart by New Blood Rising, and the only real remnant of the story was the Bash at the Beach shoot angle which was supposed to be the climax of Hogan using his political power to screw the young guys. Edit: I think a lot of the confusion came about from usual internet hyperbole. The shades of grey and framing of the old guys actions as heelish, and some of their heelish actions became THE OLD GUYS WERE ALL ALWAYS MEANT TO BE HEELS and the tweener and face New Blood members became ALL THE YOUNG GUYS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FACES when the reality was Russo's beloved shades of grey. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jan 25, 2010 |
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Jan 24, 2010 23:45
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The scissors incident saved wrestling fans from having to see Sid vs Vader at Starrcade and gave us the gift of Ric Flair vs Vader. Arn Anderson was stabbed for our sins.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:27
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It was a stupid, pointless bump. Well, maybe it has a point. To set up the incredibly obvious Kanyon heel turn on DDP. But it was really stupid and really thoughtless.
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Jan 26, 2010 03:45
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I forgot Goldberg used to commentate on MMA shows. If you have Sho2 you can catch the Cung Le/Frank Shamrock fight right now with Goldberg on commentary.
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Jan 26, 2010 05:32
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Lone Rogue posted:A lengthy court case for allowing WWF talent into a WCW building? You know what would stop them? The law and going to jail for assault. And if they just bought a ticket and sat in the crowd they'd be fair game to be shown on TV given all the disclaimers on your tickets and in the building.
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Jan 27, 2010 04:45
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The American Dream posted:So, I was thinking about the DDP love going on in this thread and I think another one today. I was just flipping around the channels and DDP was in the Devils Rejects on IFC (but with not positive black hair.) DDP still rules 10 years later. He's also in Carny Wilson's reality show on GSN. I don't understand how he remains so positive while doing that  I have no idea why, but WCW loving up Berlyn was one of the things that pissed me off the most about the company. Alex Wright was never a great worker or promo, but that gimmick and the videos leading up to it were really cool and it seemed like something that would take off. And they hosed it all up by not having any control over their talent.
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Jan 27, 2010 07:32
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Captain Charisma posted:HHH did a radio interview back then saying Ric Flair was a washed up dinosaur that should retire. Well it's not like HHH had tremendous power and was one of the bookers like Cornette was then... Oh. Yeah.
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Jan 27, 2010 07:53
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Thinking about Berlyn and DDP made me wonder this: If you followed WCW at all, what about WCW brought you the most joy, and the most rage? Joy: Diamond Dallas Page. I don't know how they pulled off such a perfect push with DDP. They hosed it up a bit by turning him heel, but he was pretty good at that too. He was this perfect mix of "Wow, he's just a normal dude..." then he'd do a crazy lucha move and you'd go "But I could never do that." and of course Diamond Cutter, BANG. Chris Jericho's heel turn: Him beating up Penzer and apologizing several shows in a row was grand. Collecting trophies was grand. Going to the library of Congress was grand. And the whole Malenko mascarading as Ciclope/Halloween was the icing on the cake. Mike Enos: For some reason I was a big mark for Mike Enos. Enos vs Child Murderer from Souled Out 99 is one of my favorite, run of the mill not that special, WCW mid card matches. The transition from Raven vs Benoit to Raven vs Benoit vs DDP. Raven vs Benoit was a really hot feud, and when Benoit won the blow off, there wasn't much more for them to do... until Raven got involved with DDP while he was feuding with Benoit a month later. This is my favorite three way feud of all time, and DDP vs Raven vs Benoit from Uncensored 98 would rank as my favorite 3 way for years to come. and of course, the Sting vs Hogan storyline. It was all so perfect. It would take several pages to write down all of the reasons why it ruled. Rage: As mentioned a few posts up, Berlyn. Idiots. Sting joining the nWo: Way to slap the fans in the face. Sting is the lone savior of WCW who the fans desperately want to see kill the nWo for 15 months and then he just joins the Wolfpac 5 months after Sting vs Hogan. This made me really angry at the time, because as a fan I got emotionally invested and seeing Sting turn into Just Another Guy in the Wolfpac on top of that was baffling. Bret Hart: Is he a heel? Is he a face? Is he in the nWo? Do I give a poo poo? Not anymore! Savage's two one night title reigns: I wasn't a big Macho Man fan, but he was way more captivating than any of the former WWF Old Guys. He won the title from Sting in 98, which was annoying. But, hey, I still like Macho Man. Then he loses it to Hogan the next night. Then Macho wins the belt in 99... and loses it the next night to Hogan. Again. Eric Bischoff's talk show. During the Leno feud, Bischoff had his own talk show that is mentioned elsewhere in this thread. It was nWo Nightcap and it was ATROCIOUS. And it lasted 10-15 minutes in several Nitros and Thunders. I rarely switched to Raw, but the second time it aired I turned on Raw.
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Jan 27, 2010 10:15
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Well, that joke is as dead as Louie Spicolli.
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Jan 29, 2010 07:29
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TNA also brought in local radio host Danny Bonaduce for a dark match, who WCW had also brought in.
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Jan 29, 2010 08:04
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The Nitro girls were good for ratings, shocking as it may sound. And the best SURGE product placement was when they would use a giant SURGE can in hardcore matches.
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Jan 30, 2010 02:45
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MyStereoHasMono posted:Guys I was supposed to go to bed two hours ago and have been up reading the OP and then that link to the funny WON quotes. I've been debating posting this since it is so large, but it is now posted online and maybe seeing Dave tear apart WCW can get a few more people to subscribe. Here is his review of Halloween Havoc 92 which was hilarious and kind of sad at the same time. If people enjoy this stuff, SUBSCRIBE! It is 9.99 per month for the Observer, Figure 4 Weekly, tons of audio shows, a huge archive of audio, a huge archive of Figure 4 Weekly newsletters, an archive of 4 years of Observers, and a back issue from 92 (going into 1993 with the debut of Raw) every week. https://www.f4wonline.com ~! Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer Newsletter posted:WCW is in a state of systematic destruction. Real wrestling talent is being exchanged with talent that doesn't have the experience or seasoning, or in some cases, even the talent, to hang in a major league operation. It doesn't appear to be a concern as long as the new talent seems willing to work cheaper than the experienced talent, or simply has a relative in high places. Even that wouldn't necessarily be so bad if the company was going on course with a viable new direction and needed fresh new talent and had the leadership that will teach and groom the newcomers into being legitimate talent. Unfortunately, that also isn't the case. The "old stale" talent gets more response than the "fresh new" talent. In 1993, WCW looks to be falling to the level of the last few years of the AWA, both in terms of talent, product quality and overall interest. This note in particular cracked me up. quote:A fan at ringside was wearing a WBF tank top when the show started, but the shirt mysteriously turned into a WCW crew shirt. Good to see paranoia about clothing being worn by fans isn't limited to those at Titan Sports.
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Feb 4, 2010 10:09
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Pneub posted:So you... thought Stunning Steve was charismatic? In promos and skits, and certain matches I would say he was. But definitely not all the time, and Pillman definitely brought more of the charisma when they teamed.
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Feb 5, 2010 01:16
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I really don't blame Sullivan that much for his run in 2000. It was really bad, but when 4 of your best workers leave and several other wrestlers sit on the side lines (including Sting) you are going to have some awful TV.
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Feb 7, 2010 09:46
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LividLiquid posted:The only time I ever stopped watching WCW was during Sullivan's reign. I sat through so much loving horrible bullshit, then one day I saw The Dog (Al Greene on a leash, literally acting like he thought he was a dog) taken seriously in a match. I stopped watching until about a month before Russo came back. Sullivan's loving terrible. I remember Ric Flair and Terry Funk having a really good feud during that period and a really good match at Superbrawl. I don't remember a single feud that good booked by Russo. On top of that he booked Hogan like he should have been booked. In semi finals against old guys or in Nitro main event tags teaming with young guys like Vampiro to try and elevate them. It was one of the few times where I thought "You know, Hogan is being booked pretty well."
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Feb 7, 2010 10:15
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The reason there was a US title tournament for Storm to win is because of Russo coming back and stripping all the titles. Russo most likely gave Storm that push. What Russo giveth, Russo can taketh away. No, that was a different US title tournament. Storm signed about 2 months after that tournament.
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Feb 9, 2010 02:02
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Super Ninja Fish posted:There were two US title tournaments back to back? I didn't remember that. Russo took a 3 week vacation between Bash at the Beach and New Blood Rising is I remember correctly, during that period Johnny Ace and Terry Taylor had the book.
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Feb 9, 2010 02:25
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Lone Rogue posted:I'll give you Sting and Luger. Hennig too, he was there for a very short time. Nash, Macho and Konnan made sense. Oddly, so did Disco. Michaels in DX was 32. The Wolfpac had the following members: Randy Savage: 46 Kevin Nash: 39 Konnan: 34 Hennig: 40 Elizabeth: 38 Luger: 40 Sting: 39 Of those, Konnan was the only one who looked like he lived the gimmick, Kevin Nash was kind of "cool" and the rest were middle aged guys (and girl) who made NO SENSE in what was a part of a two year old gimmick. So I can see why fans saw DX as young and hip and the Wolfpac was mocked for being geezers.
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Feb 11, 2010 00:26
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Dragging Iron Feet posted:Apparently cost em $150,000 as well, and they didn't advertise it. Say what you want about TNA, but they haven't done anything that stupid...yet. In the very least it was built up on TV. Not very well, but it was built to.
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Feb 11, 2010 09:19
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Awesome quote from the new back issue of the Observer: Dave Meltzer on or around 12/14/92 posted:Greg Gagne was introduced to the guys backstage at the Center Stage tapings on 12/7. He's expected to become a new member of the creative team. Rumors there will be another key addition. If you ask what Greg's qualifications are considering that even though the AWA was a very successful promotion at one time, it's television and overall product was always years behind the rest of the country and it only thrived when it was a monopoly promotion in a town and collapsed under competition many years ago in all its markets. However, Greg was a third-string quarterback when he played college football and the son of a famous wrestler. That should make him qualified for any job in this business. A few paragraphs later: quote:Ron Simmons' new music sucks.
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Feb 11, 2010 11:12
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LividLiquid posted:If you think anything on those PPVs holds a candle to the worst of New Blood Rising, you're drunk. I think King of the Ring 99 and Fall Brawl 98 come very close or maybe fall below NBR's depths. NBR at least ends with a decent match and begins with a spot fest even if it was stupidly overbooked. I'm not sure if those shows insult the fan's intelligence the way NBR does though. But Fall Brawl does pretty much kill WCW's best gimmick match dead which is saying something. Honestly, I think Fall Brawl 98 would be perfect for the March Sunday Nitro.
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Feb 14, 2010 10:45
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CombineThresher posted:Raven was in that stable too, so they probably both had major contact highs from just being around him at that point. Raven was long gone from WCW at this point. The stable you are thinking of is the short lived "Dead Pool."
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Feb 16, 2010 22:07
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The biggest problem with making WCW a brand was the timeslot of 11 PM on Saturdays was going to be really limiting. So even if it did happen, no WWF draw was going to want to be in WCW because it would really hurt their pay, their money from live gates and PPV would go way down even if WCW was doing some house shows and PPVs early on. So if you were a WWF guy you had every reason to be against it because you might end up there! With the Invasion itself, yeah it could have gone better. Vince probably should have seen what other people saw and bitten the bullet signing expensive talent early. One of the most striking things about the March 2001 Observer Lives is the prediction that guys like Nash, Hogan, Flair, Goldberg etc would sit out about a year and then when Vince needed something new to spike ratings and buyrates they would be WAY more valuable then than they were at the moment, and would have been getting their sweet WCW money in the mean time. Signing Nash and Hogan would have been meaningless in the Invasion compared to bringing them in later for shorter term roles, but Flair as the WCW mouth piece and Goldberg as the center piece would have been pretty big.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:37
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Sting has been in talks with WWE since WCW died, but his demands are never something they want to meet. I think they were close when Goldberg was in, and they didn't want to add ANOTHER part timer to the roster.
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Feb 26, 2010 02:39
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MyStereoHasMono posted:Is Sting still capable of a good match? I know back in 99/2000 Sting was still capable of putting on classics (especially his April 1999 match with DDP), but that was ten years ago now. Ive seen what he looks like now and its not very pretty. He's capable, but like he was late in WCW he is rarely motivated and generally just coasts with exceptions where he's facing someone especially motivated or great. He's past 50 now, so he's limited.
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Feb 27, 2010 01:53
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maniacripper posted:You guys should watch the Guest Booker with Jim Cornette, he makes some really good choices and reasons for them, plus Cornette is awesome and sounds awesome all the time. AAA would be the biggest wrestling company in North America.
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Feb 27, 2010 03:06
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Wazzu posted:Jim Cornette is a great guy, but we all need to keep in mind that he's a relic of the carny days, with a southern mentality, and when he ran a company (SMW) it failed because he was stuck in the past. He was one of the bookers during the WWF's rise during the Attitude era, and the product got a lot more Russoriffic after he left creative. So he's not just this old school relic, he was a big part of the Attitude Era.
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Feb 27, 2010 05:26
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Dragging Iron Feet posted:I never actually saw OVW when it existed but I did hear that the show was a lot better when Heyman took over. I don't think I've heard more than one or two people say this. Except for the people who really liked the reeeeeeeaaaaaaalllly long Punk vs Albright matches.
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Feb 27, 2010 08:16
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LividLiquid posted:His role in TNA pre-Russo produced some really good stuff. His first week on the job his character lost all credibility because of the stupidly way he was booked with the Jarrett title win and his reactions. It was utterly retarded. "Durr you aren't going to get away with this Jeff! Ok, I guess you will, but you know what? I'm gonna give you a month off from defending and have four guys compete for a title shot on the next PPV!" Ok enough non WCW talk! Here's a fun WCW moment, Arli$$ appears on Nitro. This is seriously one of the weirdest WCW segments. He's introduced as the actor who portrays Arliss a character who is a sports agent. But, after that they act like he really is a sports agent. As a bonus you get a Randy Savage promo and his valets, one of whom you may recognize! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y6_WNB64s0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcwnqD_148
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Feb 27, 2010 09:12
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