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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

HerraS posted:

Lenny Lane looks so much like Chris Jericho in that picture that I had to google if he was real or not

So much so that they did an angle where he wrestled as a fake Jericho! (Under a mask)

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

iamsosmrt posted:

What's Lenny Lane doing nowadays? I picture him in a fun angle working as Jericho's decoy or something.

Wrestling at children's birthday parties. At least he was pre pandemic.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

THIS IS NEW!!! THANK YOU!

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

overmind2000 posted:

Holy gently caress, we MIGHT have a line to finding the rest of the WCW QVC tapes. The fansite I linked has screenshots from specials that I haven't seen and considering that there wasn't any other way to get screenshots from a TV (they don't look like he pointed camera at the screen) in the late 90s it's pretty likely that he taped them. The fansite lists frogstomper79@hotmail.com as the way to contact the owner and considering that the email I sent him a few minutes ago hasn't been bounced back it's probably still active. I've emailed him about uploading or selling the tapes if he still has them but it'll be more likely to work if more than one person does it. Hopefully he still checks his email because this might be the only way to get the missing tapes.

That being said, what's the list of found tapes? I know about the Buff Bagwell special and the one that I posted earlier today but I can't remember the others.

I have the Nash/Goldberg episode, the Buff/Nitro girls episode and the Sting episode. There is a Macho episode from late Spring of 99 and I believe a Goldberg special too. I have to watch the one just posted, because I know there was one at a December 98 house show with a bunch of talent, but this seems to be from January.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
We're gonna do a group viewing of the new QVC special tomorrow at 8 on PSP TV.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

DeathChicken posted:

Mysterio couldn't have been 21 in WCW. Maybe when he was in ECW

He was 21 when he debuted in WCW.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

ChrisBTY posted:

A 'laying in bed' thought.
You are in purgatory. Your only way to Heaven is to book a match between Mil Mascaras and Hulk Hogan. The requirements are:
1) It takes place in a 20k seat arena in a Texas sanctuary town.
2) There must be a clean finish for one of the parties.
3) Both Hogan and Mascaras have creative control.
4) If you use unethical tactics you go to hell instead of heaven.
5) Just for the sake of clarity you're in a loop. If you fail to convince one of them to do the job you get to try again in the purgatory equivalent of a week.

Would just keep booking draws so I could hang out with Mil Mascars for all eternity since the actual solution is obvious, Mil Mascaras shoots on Hogan and taps him out with his judo. Hogan is convinced to tap out by Mil's hold and Mil shooting on Hogan fulfills all righteousness.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Ganso Bomb posted:

Is this only for bad WCW stuff? Because I stumbled onto some Twitch stream playing endless Nitros and PPVs back to back and it's been pretty fun. Just started Starrcade 98 and gently caress, the first matches were Kidman/Rey/Juvi for the Cruiserweight Title followed immediately by Kidman/Eddie. About 25 minutes in total. It loving ruled.

Seeing this old Kidman stuff makes it make sense that they would try to make him a big name with a feud against Hogan but, of course, they botched it. He was fun to watch and the crowd was really into him. Terrible shooting star press, though.

This is the WCW thread for all things good and bad although you might want to turn that show off after those two matches.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Ganso Bomb posted:

And why? Did they really trick themselves into thinking he brought a certain level of prestige that they still needed until they were dead in the dirt? Or was there some inescapable contract that they couldn't get out of? I would understand bringing him in to do like, Starrcade once a year or even the main even of a bigger Nitro like the Georgia Dome one but it was wild to me how often he was there with how much he cost.

He was on an annual contract for some amount of dates (I don't think it was every Nitro and PPV but it was close) and he brought some big event feeling to the show. I think his contract ran out in mid 2000, but I'm not sure. I feel like I remember a Bruce Buffer story about it being negotiated in the summer. But he was cool to have on the show when things were hot, and it wasn't a huge expense for a company making that much money, so like Hogan using Voodoo Child (Slight Return) it was cool to have. But like every big WCW contract they held onto it a little too long!

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
The Ultimate Super Big Man.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

NikkolasKing posted:

Do you all agree with Bryan and friends that people like Malenko and Kidman, no matter how talented or over they were, just weren't cut out to be main eventers? That even great wrestlers can have a place that is lower on the card?

Kidman probably wasn't because he just wasn't a high level enough wrestler to over come that he was kind of limited talking. But he had a good look so he could be a decent upper midcarder who might challenge for the top title once.

Malenko on the other hand managed to get over like a main eventer once. Watch Starrcade 96. While he couldn't win the match due to the fact he wasn't winning the J Crown he's so ungodly over in that match that if he won they may have had something with him. It's an era where everyone was over, but there's something special to the reactions he gets there.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

JOHN CENA posted:

mrt, did mike awesome ever have another good match since leaving ecw besides his ONS match?

Vs Scott Steiner in WCW, vs Kobashi was good in NOAH but not as good as most Kobashi matches from that era, I bet the Tanaka match from Zero One is good but I haven't seen that one, and I think he had one good match in MLW too.

I'm sure some of the tags he did in NOAH and probably All Japan were good but I haven't seen them. The All Japan matches may have been a struggle since he was teaming with The Wall alot but who knows how many are even circulating.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

rare Magic card l00k posted:

Mike Awesome was never going to get over in WCW because Goldberg and Scott Steiner were both much, much better at doing the thing that got Mike Awesome over.

Mike Awesome was pretty different from both of those guys.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

excellent bird guy posted:

What is the general consensus regarding Larry Zbyszko? I think he's boring. Wow he wears wacky zany shirts, so what. Larry + Tony are not a good commentary team.

Great promo guy but for that reason not a good announcer because he just spent his time getting himself over. Which while you were watching in 97 it was fun live because it made you want to see matches you eventually got, but those matches were not very good! Commentary is also funny in retrospect since all of the wrestlers he says are taking too many risks were still wrestling at the age he was just an announcer or out of the business completely.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Crazy David Flair was fine for a comedy skit but most crazy David Flair skits weren't actually meant for comedy and some were part of "serious" feuds.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Larry always tried to play up how much he wasn't afraid of the NWO, to the point of staring them down when they came to the announcer's table or talking about how he could take them when they weren't around. I don't remember anything ever coming of it so it was just more of Larry putting himself over and nobody giving a poo poo tell him to knock it off.

It was to build up matches with Bischoff and Hall. Some of it was just his ego but they planted the seeds for those matches half a year or more in advance.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Hedgehog Pie posted:

A question actually, who was it that wanted to bring Awesome in in the first place? I'd been led to believe that it was Russo but maybe it was Sullivan during Russo's sabbatical? Did a Turner exec hear the name somewhere and push for him to get signed?

Bischoff is the one who handled the back and forth with ECW and to the best of my memory made the call to sign him. I believe Awesome made overtures through Hogan (since Hogan's associates leaked the news in the first place) and it went through Bischoff from there.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Thanks! I wasn't sure what sort of power Bischoff still had at that point. Is that why his push died so hard, because Bischoff and Hogan were gone not long after?

I honestly think it was just because they didn't know how to push anyone at that point. Russo clearly wanted to push him, he just really sucked at it. But he did seem like he was getting something when they put him in the ring with Hogan, but the momentum really died when Bischoff decided Nash was more over in May of 2000 than at any time in his career (seriously) and Nash killed Awesome dead.

But he still got pushes after that, just bad pushes, but every 2000 push was going to be bad.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Animal-Mother posted:

https://www.twitch.tv/legendxkiller

I have no idea what date they've reached on this stream of old Nitros, but Ric Flair is the leader of a group called... the Magnificent Seven? And he's protecting Rick Steiner from Dustin Rhodes.... for reasons? And Ernest The Cat Miller is the most over guy on the show because he said he's going to re-instate his foot in Flair's rear end?

Sounds like February 2001.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Animal-Mother posted:

I forget what happened with Scott Hall towards the end of WCW. Was he sent home for drinking? Did he just stop showing up?

Scott majorly hosed up on (or prior to) a European tour in February of 2000. WCW wanted to suspend or fire him but they wanted him to do the Superbrawl 2000 PPV first. I forget what he did but it had to be alcohol related.

But he got badly injured so they couldn't fire him like they wanted and had to wait until August to do so.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Hall being drunk as an angle happened in '98 I think, but they were still making references to him well into 2000 even when he hadn't been on TV for months. I don't know why exactly, maybe Nash asked for a shout out, or they just wanted to wring all they could from his contract, or something else entirely?

By late 2000 Nash had been told to stop referencing Hall on air and basically ignored it.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

NikkolasKing posted:

Why be ashamed of enjoying Bischoff as a character? He's a great, natural heel, good on the mic and has a lot of charisma.

In other news though, listening to Retro shows again, why didn't Sean O'Haire ever become a big star?

Also I noted earlier on how Bryan and friends hated Duggan. Man did they change their tune in 2000. Jim Duggan in 2000 was the best babyface in WCW.

O'Haire was the victim of a start and stop push. He wasn't their guy to begin with so when the Devil's Advocate thing stalled he was done. After that his life spiraled into drug addiction and domestic violence.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Bischoff as Hogan's toadie is one of the all time great bit roles. It may have hurt the company in the long run if being on TV made him want to build up the nWo even bigger and longer than its shelf life, but he was tremendous.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Not only was Flair willing he was waiting outside a WWF PPV in 98 waiting to make a deal until his lawyers told him not to. (According to him.)

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

RC and Moon Pie posted:

Flair was going to "appear" at the 1998 WWF PPV in Greensboro and be visible on camera, but Reid was going to be interviewed. It got as far as Flair driving around the building, but lawyers from one or both sides decided they didn't want to risk it after a long discussion that afternoon. Cornette proposed the idea and McMahon loved it. Cornette was the intermediary between the two since McMahon couldn't directly talk to Flair, but Cornette, as a friend, could.

It would have been interesting to see how Flair would have fit.

There were a handful of WWF guys saying publicly at that time that he was too old to be around. Three years later, they all welcomed him with open arms, so it might have been a bunch of posturing.

What's funny is one of the people who was saying that was HHH.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Halloween Jack posted:

To be sure, Liz had an outrageous contract that didn't require her to wrestle or talk. Russo wanted to get their money's worth out of her by having her strip, because he's a disgusting creep.

It's not an outrageous contract, it's a contract the company offered her to provide her services. It was what she did for over a decade, and suddenly it wasn't good enough.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Halloween Jack posted:

If I remember right, the Nitro Girls had a lousy downside, so I assume there was a lot of pressure to do those lovely angles just to get the payday for an appearance.

Yes once they were under contract they got $15,000 per year $500 for each TV appearance, $500 if they were a valet or did a physical angle and $250 for their PR appearances.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Realizing that Vince Russo is a year older than Jim Cornette awhile back is one of those things that never stops being weird.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Pope Corky the IX posted:

No, I mean that Jim Cornette at thirty-two in 1993 looks way older than I do here in 2020 at thirty-seven. And most of the other people I know my age.

Cornette even looked older than his age when he first started in Memphis. It made the rich momma's boy character seem like the guy was 30 and not in his early 20s. I guess that's more hateable?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

iamsosmrt posted:

The nicest thing I'll say about Hogan is that he's a man who's spent 25+ years as an immensely popular, wealthy, larger than life superstar whose life has been under a microscope since the dawn of the internet. He's probably about average in the grand scheme of human character and integrity, with some extremely questionable to awful behavior in his past, but that he's not a 100% complete monster (that we know of) is probably more telling of him than people would like to credit.

That said, he's totally abused his privileges and powers and most of the poo poo people give him is 100% justified. But he's still capable of doing a lot of good things and being a likeable person if you're a figure in his life. A lot of people probably have similar relatives in their lives, lovely views and conversation, but they might step up above and beyond if you're in a pinch.

Hogan was accused of sexual assault and settled a resulting lawsuit. He also bought booze for his underage son and let him drive afterwards which resulted in Nick's friend in a vegetative state. Hogan blamed the friend's karma for that. Those alone make him a below average person, let alone the racial slurs, the politics, the snitching on a potential union and everything else.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

SLUM KING posted:

Wait is Damaja like “Damager”

Is that what his name was supposed to be

The Damaja.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

DJExile posted:

Flair is kind of like Jeff Jarrett (wait, come back, i'm going somewhere with this!) in that both worked in ways that allowed them to have really long careers. They never took stupid bumps, they weren't high-flyers, things like that. Obviously you're still asking a lot for your body to stay in decent enough shape, but they gave themselves the best chances they could.

Jarrett's in ring career fell apart at the same point Hogan's did. Maybe a couple of years after. He did not age well compared to guys like Flair, Casas, Atlantis, Bockwinkel, Nagata, Liger, etc.

Flair did not have a huge steroid physique and that's one reason he lasted longer. Piper specifically had his hip go out which turned him from a good worker to completely immobile. Flair avoided those catastrophic injuries. Flair took lots and lots of bumps, and was a high workrate guy. He was very lucky in that he avoided those injuries. Atlantis is a good example as he was really good until his mid 50s, suffered a major knee injury, came back early and never recovered. Prior to the lockdown he was semi-retired.

Hogan was never a high workrate guy, was heavy into steroids and his body broke down, and in his mid 40s he basically only worked with guys his age who didn't do a lot at that point. The only exception was Flair who still did a lot. Hogan was a more gradual decline from not great to bad.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

TheKingslayer posted:

Just my own personal take but you can read any Hogan action with the idea that he probably thought he'd be on top in any company as world champ until they buried him with the belt. The top guy can't just be losing matches, brother.

Was literally Bischoff's opinion, he wasn't worried when the WWF pulled ahead because whoever had Hogan would win in the long run.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Tuesday Nitro will return for the last two Sundays of October to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Halloween Havoc 95.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
I wasn't logged into ebay on my phone and it got sold before I could buy it now :(

https://twitter.com/DavidCAndersen/status/1313319562721492992

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
If Only The Hulk Hogan Twin Track Shaving Kit Could Have Cut Down On WCW's Losses

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

SatoshiMiwa posted:

Reading the latest retro observer released on the site and it has the start of the Hogan/TNA stuff in 2003 which MRT has covered before but what shocked me is that Inoki was considering giving Hogan the New Japan book in 2003 to get him to sign long term. Now I want to see how big of a train wreck Hogan booking New Japan in 2003-04 would be

A part of my brain I have not accessed in a long time sparked and I feel like there is a really really funny story about this and I hope he talks about it on WOR.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Join us for the Nitros leading up to Halloween Havoc 95!

http://psp-tv.com/r/badmoviesworsewrestling

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Actually shocking that Joey hasn't wrestled him on Spring Break or Lost in yet.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
In just over an hour we have Halloween Havoc 95, you don't want to miss it!

http://psp-tv.com/r/badmoviesworsewrestling

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