Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
View Results
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Great OP, good Lord even though I lived through most of it I'm still blown away by the reckless, relentless stupidity of it all.

For some reason I always think of WCW starting in the mid-80s (like 85/86) and obviously I'm thinking of DCP or some previous incarnation of a NWA show. The level of money they were making in the late 90s was simply insane, but even at their "best" in the late 90s I always felt their presentation seemed shoddy and substandard in comparison to the well-oiled machine that was WWF.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


rotinaj posted:

That was the logo that's been so much ballyhooed?

The point was that the logo was allegedly shown in an ad that didn't mention when the show was on, and actively mocked the logo!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


During that interview with Kevin Kelly posted a couple of weeks back, he talks about how nonchalant Vince was pretending to be as he strutted into a meeting and said,"Oh hey, I just bought WCW.... including their entire video library. For only 3 (?) million dollars," and how they just sat there going

There's also a really good bit about how the video library showed up in cardboard boxes with absolutely no index/catalog and Kelly got to crawl through it all and was finding the most utterly amazing stuff just slammed into boxes willy-nilly because the guys who eventually sold it didn't have a loving clue of the value of what they were selling, because all they saw was the outgoing costs.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Grandpa Pap posted:

This is my history of late 90s/early 2000s WCW.

Bischoff: Sting is lying on his back, the letters nWo burning into his belly as he beats his legs trying to turn himself over... but he can't, not without your help, but you're not helping.
Sid: What do you mean I'm not helping?
Bischoff: I mean, you're not helping. Why is that Sid? Did you forget your scissors?
Sid: My scissors?
Bischoff: DID YOU FORGET YOUR SCISSORS!?!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

Whatever you guys are quoting sounds bad rear end.

Russo: Not very sporting to chairshot an unarmed opponent. I thought you were supposed to be good. Aren't you the good guy? Come on Hogan, you bald bastard, show me what you're made of.
Russo breaks fourth wall

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Hockles posted:

I'm just as lost as you are.

Like tears in the rain?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

gently caress. I haven't seen Blade Runner in 20 years.

The best thing about Blade Runner is that it's a loving awesome movie.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Supreme Allah posted:

Does anyone have good backstage stories or interviews about Jericho jumping ship?

That was right around the time spoilers were 80 percent of the internet and I was still in the naive mode of avoiding them at all costs, so the countdown was the last real surprise that I enjoyed in wrestling

I can imagine smug WCW bookers watching and thinking it would fall on its face, and Vince literally making GBS threads himself at the pop 'JERICHO' got when it flashed on the titantron

I don't know if these are so much "backstage" stories or not, but here are a couple of things:

Jericho was allegedly offered far more money by WCW to stay than WWF offered him to come work for them. However Jericho felt creatively strangled at WCW and thought there was a better chance to branch out and do different things in WWF.

Jericho's last night in WCW saw him haranguing the crowd and the wrestlers he would be fighting when Rey Mysterio told him,"Hey, we all know you're leaving, Chris, let's just put on a show for the people!" and they had a great match. Afterwards a tearful Jericho hugged Mysterio and the others in the ring, got the mic and told the crowd that..... they still sucked!

When Jericho went to WWF, he suggested the Millennium Countdown starting up a month or so out from his debut, and it was Vince who decided they would stretch it out even further so that there was a real sense of anticipation built for the eventual reveal (which was huge!)

I also didn't read internet wrestling forums at the time, so Jericho showing up was COMPLETELY out of the blue for me and I still think of it as one of the most amazing debuts in WWF's history, if not all professional wrestling.

Moose Bigelow posted:

The book "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" was way better than that piece of poo poo movie. The original movie followed the book but test audiences hated it so they went with the copout ending of them falling in love.

I could never ever watch the original cut with the voiceover narration ever again, it's dreadful and removing it made the movie SOOOOOO much better. I haven't watched "The Final Cut" so I don't know if it is an improvement or not on the Director's Cut, which is excellent.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Free Market Gravy posted:

Aaaaaaaaaaaand that's a wrap. Good thread, guys, but I think we've the reached the top of the mountain.

Does this make us the King? Or do we have to hang something up first?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


crankdatbatman posted:

Considering what a number of you have said about how WCW was great and just had a bad period in 2000 was a decent company the rest of the time, I kind of believe the opposite: that WCW was a pretty lousy company that two or three good years around 1996 and 1998.

I thought that this was what everyone WAS saying? That apart from a couple of golden years, WCW was pretty much always terrible? I thought they had some good years very late 80s and maybe a year and a bit in the early 90s, but they were dreadful most of the rest of the time, hit a high note roughly around 96-98 and then careened off of a cliff after that?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Lone Rogue posted:

Well you see, it's like a human game of chess...

He's a BIIIIIIIG guy!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

The thing is, you're right about how it felt at the time. Now, though, I miss having random two guys who've never been in big angles just going out and having a match. Every match now seems to be made by a GM after the show starts and every match is a grudge match. I kind of miss seeing two random guys like Norman Smiley and Steven Regal having a match.

Watch Superstars on Thursday, solid midcard wrestlers and curtainjerkers getting 8-12 minute long matches (sometimes longer) usually with no other reason than having a good match.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


FishBulb posted:

yes yes, goonsay.

No I absolutely agree, the nWo represented an invasion of "WWF" into WCW, and the nWo vs WCW angle was essentially WWF vs WCW in a way that was never explicitly stated but that everyone understood on some base level. The only way that angle should have EVER ended was Sting beating Hogan clean in the middle of the ring to "save" WCW. It is a travesty that this did not happen, and I agree that it was this that eventually lead to WCW bleeding out and dying.

It's really ironic that Hogan, Hall and Nash were later bought into the WWF essentially representing what WCW had become - parasitic infections that destroyed a company from within.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Grandpa Pap posted:

I think that's a great analogy. WCW from that point was basically Mr. Orange in "Reservoir Dogs".

Bret: gently caress you Hogan I'm not a plant from WWF!
Hogan: You are a plant!
Russo: No he's not you bald bastard!
Hogan: Don't call me bald!
Everyone shoots on everyone else, company collapses.
Bret: Ru.... Russo..... I am a plant from WWF....
Russo breaks down into sobbing, camera pulls away and we hear a final worked shoot go off.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Skinty McEdger posted:

They started the Jericho in the NWO angle by having the giant win him the TV title, and then look out for him in his first few title defences. According to Jericho's book, when Jericho told Bischoff he didn't want to join the group as he didn't want to be one of twenty guys standing around twiddling their thumbs in the background, instead of changing the booking they just kept the angle without ever explaining why the Giant would be looking out for Jericho even in favour of his NWO team mates.

The answer is obviously that even back then, Big Show and Jericho knew they would be the best of friends forever and one day dominate the tag team world.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


dusty udder smoker posted:

i cannot even fathom a clearly speaking and articulately speaking scott steiner

On some awards show a year or 4 back, Hogan came out to present an award and was cutting a promo Hulkster style when suddenly he cut off and said in a completely normal voice,"Why am I talking like Hulk Hogan?" and finished off the rest of the presentation in a completely standard voice. It was bizarre.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


MassRayPer posted:

Except, the Observer reported that Savage would win WW3 anyway and they just lied about what it said to try and prove the dirt sheets were wrong.

Jesus loving Christ

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Jack Krauser posted:

Are we getting a new WCW to watch tonight? I always look forward to that.

There will be a show tonight, yes.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


maniacripper posted:

Rey also said in an interview that before the match where he lost his mask, Eddie came into the locker room and told Rey that if he changed his mind and didn't want to lose it he'd leave with him and tell WCW to gently caress off or something.

I kind of hope that Eddie was just REALLY hoping that Rey would change his mind so he'd have an excuse to say,"Well poo poo now I have to leave this terrible company!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

Do any of you have any reason to believe that the New Blood were supposed to be anything but heels aside from, "I want WCW to have been dumber than they already were, god dammit!"

New Blood were always the heels. If you think otherwise you're a loving retard.

Half or more of the old guys had been heels only one week before, with just a couple of faces (such as Sting and DDP) and the entire opening promos section was designed around the concept that the entire crowd understood the basic concept that Hogan and his ilk were notorious backstage politickers and thus would understand immediately that the young guys were pissed off because they were being held down by backstage politics instituted by a bunch of old guys that now magically INCLUDED Sting and the small number of other veterans who had been the top faces in the company.

The "DID YOU FORGET YOUR SCISSORS, SID!?!" line is a perfect microcosm of the entire retarded concept - Russo was booking based on the idea that the tiny minority of very vocal smark/internet fans represented the ENTIRETY of the wrestling fanbase. The angle fell as flat as Bischoff's line, because 90% or more of the audience didn't know anything more about wrestling other than "Hollywood Hogan is the bad guy, I wanna see Goldberg or Sting kill that guy."

Now to WCW's credit, I guess they realized as SOME point along the way that the New Blood were going down like a lead balloon and sounded like a bunch of whiney, entitled assholes and shifted things around at some point - but on that reboot night, the intention was obviously for the fans to be good little "castmembers" and accept/understand/intuit that the old guys were bad guys and the young guys were good guys, and they executed it loving horribly.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I said DID YOU FORGET YOUR SCISSORS!?!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


SiKboy posted:

In fact I remember reading somewhere that they either left before the main event or spent the entire night in the back so didnt see the excited fans. Something along those lines anyway.

Bullshit, they were too busy rocking out at a NITRO PARTY!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

Dude. This is asking a lot, but if you've got one more "It's really very simple..." in you, I would love to hear it for New Blood Rising.

Well it really IS very simple:

In a professional wrestling match, a boy band fought a trio of Asians (one of whom was a Southern Redneck) for possession of a gold record and a recording contract, because without the recording contract the boy band would never get to sing a song and get a gold record like the one they got when they got it in the match before they got the record contract. Also Jim the Anvil Neidhart's lookalike decoy got drunk and wandered out to the ring and the commentators had to desperately cover it up by making up a story about a washed up fighter's deeply repressed homosexual lust.

The Great Muta showed up in WCW in the year 2000, wasn't hit by a steel chair, and lost a match to the Commissioner of WCW Ernest Miller, whose feet had been blessed by James Brown, gaining them the very specific power of knocking out The Great Muta. The match between Muta and Miller is best remembered for the crowd chanting a WWF catchphrase.

An elderly woman was put on a forklift and ridden out to the ring to a Nirvana theme-tune ripoff used by the wrong wrestler who was also in lust with the elderly woman. The steroid-popping freak son of this woman then came out and beat up a celebrity guest, and danced rather than save her from her precarious position tied to the forklift. To win the match you needed to get the elderly woman off of the "pole", also you could win by pinning your opponent or making them submit. But count-outs were right out.... maybe.

Two big dumb guys who can't wrestle beat three other teams to win the right to have another match for their belts later that same night - another team came down and got involved in the match as referees because they had referee shirts except for the guy who counted the pinfall who wasn't wearing a referee shirt but once someone slaps the canvas three times that's that buddy. The team that got involved was not the team that would be fighting the two dumb guys later that night.

A skinny meth-addict and the fat assistant manager of a department store stumbled out to the ring during a bondage session, both so high and drunk that they didn't realize they'd ended up in the middle of a Pay Per View.

A woman with giant fake tits fought a woman without giant fake tits in a big pool of mud and then one of them got pregnant from the sperm in the mud and started to miscarry because of the South's miscegenation laws.

Someone opened a time vortex to a brief 6 week period in 1974 when KISS was popular and signed a contract to unleash a Demon into WCW, perhaps for the promise of KISS merchandising rights in return. Luckily for WCW, a fat Samoan screamed at a startled Crow, thus summoning Sting from the rafters to vanquish the Demon to Hell.... which just so happened to be a WCW PPV called New Blood Rising.

In Canada the Canadian hero Lance Storm who loves Canada and is loved by Canadians and had got to where he had by being an exceptional wrestler who backed up his claims of greatness by beating his opponents in straight up matches proceeded to recklessly cheat as he was beaten again and again easily by his American opponent. The crowd cheered for bad guy Storm doing bad guy things while the commentators bitterly cursed his actions and hammered on him for being such a bad, horrible man that nobody liked.

Bret Hart showed up to pick up his back-pay and accidentally ended up on camera.

The two big dumb guys who can't wrestle and had beat three other teams to win the right to have another match for their belts later that same night after interference from another team that wasn't on their side and wasn't going to be fighting them later that night.... lost their match to the team of Vampiro and the Great Muta. Having achieved what he set out to do when he returned to WCW, Muta was able to return to Japan and reinvigorate his career thanks to the imparted magic of James Brown transferred from Miller's foot to his face.

Goldberg, Kevin Nash and Steiner had a match but the unprofessional Goldberg refused to do the job and went into business for himself and left the match which wasn't on the commentator's rundown so Nash and Steiner had to improvise a finish to the match themselves.

Everybody hoped Booker T's bad knee was okay. Turns out it was. He did a Spinarooni and knocked out the referee due to uncontrollable centrifugal force! The crowd feared Jarrett might win, and fearing the idea of a blond primadonna convinced of his own glory forcing himself to the top of the company and holding onto it with a deathgrip, they cheered for the antithesis of all those things by chanting for Hulk Hogan. This can be explained by the fact that it was a Canadian crowd, and thus their patriotism for America got the better of them. A sniper in the upper tier started shooting referees so the crowd threw garbage at the ring to act as chaff and stave off his aim. Booker retained his belt.

What's so difficult to understand about any of that?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Moose Bigelow posted:

How is that different than the Detroit of the past 50 years?

There are no Robot Cops.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

Renegade robot cops?

Old Wrestling House Show Results posted:

The Renegade Defeats Scott Hall.
Hall dominated the match till Renegade's valet distracted Hall with a bottle of Scotch, causing Hall's chest to open up and a desperate scrabbling hand to emerge, allowing Renegade to jump on Hall's back and administer the Sleeper Hold.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Free Market Gravy posted:

Edit: Sort of beaten.


WCW, particularly during the death spiral, never thought anything past "this would be a great visual joke!"

WCW's final years were like hiring David Lynch and the ten hackiest comedy writers on Hollywood's D-List and giving them a blank checkbook and 18 trash bags full of cocaine.

David Lynch was offered the job but became furious at the lack of coherent narrative and over-reliance on viewer interpretation and walked out of the interview.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Halloween Jack posted:

Wow, you never saw Lost Highway, did you?

I was too busy watching Alan Rickman playing happy go lucky nice guys who can't stop smiling and loves to give people lots of chances to prove themselves.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Dylar Addict posted:

I would much rather see David Cronenberg directing a wrestling company actually.

Up next, the amorphous flesh beast made out of sexual organs versus the biomechanical acid-spitting psychic hooker.

I liked Existenz, I never got the hate for it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


This is probably the best place to post this, I won't be able to do the standard monthly Sunday Nostalgia show this week, would anyone have any objection to opening up the MYSTERY BOX on Saturday, instead? Otherwise I'll have to leave it at least a couple of weeks since Mania is next week.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


coconono posted:

wait, did they sweeten the audio on PPVs?

Only if the crowd is cheering someone you don't like, or booing someone you do.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Ziggy Tsardust posted:

Because wrestling companies NEVER alter the audio in post in order to make you believe what you want them too

They do it a lot less than people claim they do, I know that for a fact just like people know that crowds all hate Matt Hardy and hope to see him gone from WWE.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Fucken_Gieux posted:

They did. Bischoff brought Gilberg on Raw to bother Goldberg, so he speared him.

It was (heel) Rock who bought him out, wasn't it? I distinctly recall when Goldberg's music hit that Rock turned to Gilberg and squeaked,"You been making fun of him for years! He's coming for you!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


LividLiquid posted:

Okay. He looked like something out of a Rob Liefeld comic book. It was loving bizarre.

All the rocks and smoke constantly obscuring his ankles was a health and safety nightmare too.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Moose Bigelow posted:

Chris Jericho's action figures were set so that when they were bought, the receipt would say either "Sting" or "Hogan". They subsequently got the revenue money for the sales.

http://wfigs.proboards.com/index.cg...y&thread=102800

Holy Jesus loving Christ.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I'm fairly certain he got his start writing the then WWF Magazine and Vince called a meeting with the other writers/bookers where he angrily pointed to the magazine and said,"This magazine is better than what we're putting on TV, drat it! I should hire this guy to write our show... in fact, I will!"

Then he power-strutted over the table, dived through the window into some bushes and down the street into the sunset.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I remember having to deal with videos that would stop running but the audio would keep going. gently caress that was annoying.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


bobkatt013 posted:

In WCW was there any point where the right hand knew what the left was doing?

I was going through some old Nitros recently and came across an odd little episode where Raven's Flock surrounded the ring to get at Benoit or something.... and then suddenly Finlay comes running out of nowhere, beats the poo poo out of Benoit and then leaves.... and the Flock are just kind of standing there like,"Why the gently caress did Finlay just do that?"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Matlock posted:

You need to re-find that and post it, because that's amazing.

The closest thing today would be Nexus cornering Cena, Sheamus running in and beating the hell of him and leaving without comment, and then Nexus stomping Cena in their confusion

Also Van Hammer is there but wearing a fishnet undershirt and mascara, just standing on the ring looking menacing while the commentators alternate between,"WHAT IS FIT FINLAY DOING!?!" and,"WHO IS THAT IS IT... IS IT YES IT LOOKS LIKE.... HE BEARS A SUSPICIOUS RESEMBLANCE TO VAN HAMMER!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

I think people get it mixed up with the storyline where Goldberg had to recreate his original streak or be fired, and they would count every time he speared and jack hammered someone outside a match as a win.

This is incorrect.

They would count every time he speared and jackhammered someone outside a match as 15 wins.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Also, mention you heard that Ultimate Warrior came back for another match with Hulk Hogan, and say that sounds cool there's no way anyone could blow a money-making program like that. People will go all kinds of fun colors before they're finished responding!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply