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This is my history of late 90s/early 2000s WCW. Bischoff: The facts of life...to make an alteration in the evolvement of WCW is fatal. A booking sequence cannot be revised once it's been established. Russo: Why not? Bischoff: Because by the second week of booking, any main eventers that have creative control give rise to revertant colonies, like rats leaving a sinking ship; then the ship...sinks. Russo: What about pretending titles are meaningless? Bischoff: We've already tried it - US Tag Team, Mid-Atlantic, Western States championships as alkylating agents and potent mutagens; it created programs so dull the champion's heat was dead before it even left the table. Russo: Then a celebrity appearance, that would block the operating cells. Bischoff: Wouldn't obstruct ticket sales; but it does give rise to an error in creative control, so that the newly formed nWo carries with it a mutation - and you've got a virus again...but this, all of this is academic. WCW was made as well as we could make it. Russo: But not to last. Bischoff: The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and WCW has burned so very, very brightly, Vince. Look at us: we're the Prodigal Sons; we're quite a prize! Russo: We've done... questionable things. Bischoff: Also extraordinary things; revel in our time. Russo: Nothing Dixie Carter wouldn't let either of us into TNA for. E: I do agree with many of the posters in here, though, who said that WCW was white-hot from 1996-1998 or thereabouts. I recall seeing people wearing nWo shirts who were A)not the stereotype "fat mouthbreathing rednecks" that wrestling fans are commonly viewed as and B)not hipsters wearing them in an ironic fashion. Stone Cold and the Rock may have made wrestling hugely mainstream for the first time since the 1980s, but they might not have gotten there without the nWo paving the way for popular acceptance. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 29, 2009 |
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Dec 29, 2009 00:14
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LividLiquid posted:Whatever you guys are quoting sounds bad rear end.  
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Dec 29, 2009 00:56
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Bischoff: Have you felt yourself to be exploited in WCW in any way? Raven: Like what? Bischoff: Well... well, like to get this job. I mean, did... did you do, or... or were you asked to do anything lewd... or unsavory, or... or, otherwise repulsive to your... your person, huh? Raven: [laughs] Are you for real? Raven takes Bischoff up on his release offer
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Dec 29, 2009 01:01
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Bischoff: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Dennis Rodman fighting Karl Malone at Bash at the Beach. I watched Dusty Rhodes turn on Larry Zbyszko and join the nWo. All those moments will be lost in time...like tears in rain. Time to die. Bischoff watches as Fusient deal falls thru; Vince McMahon buys WCW
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Dec 29, 2009 01:22
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LividLiquid posted:But I just absolutely refuse to see a movie about Jim Hellwig and Steve Borden hunting down Terminators in post-apocalyptic Atlanta. I would pay top dollar to see this, provided they look like they did in the picture I posted.
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Dec 29, 2009 02:00
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TL posted:You rated this thread '5'! Great job, go hog wild! To be fair, the six-sided ring was a horrible idea. It made them look like they were trying to be a cross between MMA and pro wrestling (and were failing miserably at both).
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Dec 29, 2009 03:49
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Hockles posted:Every single match I have ever seen, the ropes seem to be strung super tight. Maybe it'll be a bit more loose now. Here are six issues with the six-sided ring: 1. As you said, ropes are strung super tight. 2. The ring looks tiny. Even if it was the same size as a WWE ring (my guess is it's not), to the eye it still looks way smaller. 3. Aside from "Six Sides of Steel", I can't think of anything they've done that emphasizes or takes advantage of a six-sided ring. Even "Six Sides of Steel" is just a fancy name for a cage match. 4. No gimmick match they have ever done has needed a six-sided ring to make it work. Not "Feast or My Fired", not the Ultimate-X matches, none of it. 5. Most of their guys have worked for years in traditional four-sided rings (and still do in places like Japan). No matter how long they've been with TNA, the six-sided ring still has to put them off their game a bit. 6. "LOL TNA" comedy answer.
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Dec 29, 2009 04:12
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The thing to remember is that WCW, regardless of how generally horrible they were with a few bright spots inbetween, was Ted Turner's Revenge Machine against Vince McMahon. So, no matter how bad they were, as long as Ted was around to back them up they were assured of existence. The fact that they were actually able to beat Vince for a while was just icing on the cake. Short of something like Ted Turner going bankrupt, WCW would probably STILL be around today if Turner hadn't sold Time Warner to AOL (and thus become less involved in the running of the business). At worst, it was a tax writeoff for Turner; at best, he was actually able to beat Vince McMahon at his own game, if only for a while.
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Jan 1, 2010 02:30
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MassRayPer posted:But they were big on signs and fans throwing trash
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Jan 2, 2010 11:09
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MassRayPer posted:To me, Starrcade 97 gave the WWF the opening to get back in the war.
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Jan 5, 2010 02:47
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Lone Rogue posted:Dusty Rhodes speaking normally fucks me right up.  .
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Jan 10, 2010 07:42
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LividLiquid posted:Randy has a normal voice? I don't remember the context, but there was some interview or something years ago where he was talking and it was so unlike his usual "OOOOH YEAH DIG IT SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM" voice that it boggled my mind. I seem to recall that it was a lot deeper than I'd expected. If I manage to dig up some clips, I'll post 'em.
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Jan 10, 2010 22:58
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Neodoomium posted:He got in a fight with Arn Anderson backstage that resulted in Sid stabbing Arn with a pair of scissors. And from what I recall, Arn STILL kicked Sid's rear end.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:03
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MrBling posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVWq9BXLnSw Looking at that reminded me that I used to have a thing for Tylene Buck (aka Major Gunns). Then I saw one of her topless photos post-WCW.  I'll sum it up thusly: just watch any "Arrested Development" episode featuring Kitty.
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Apr 30, 2010 21:54
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Jeff Jarrett is, to me, the wrestling equivalent of elevator music. He's neither good nor bad, just drab and inoffensive and I generally tend to zone out whenever he's on. Anderson is also rapidly approaching that status for me. The guy just seems like a walking  whenever I see him. The fact that he gets any crowd response for that beyond-tired microphone gimmick astounds me. Even his botches (which are legion) don't inspire the  + reactions in me that other people's botches do.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:13
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Sikki Nixx posted:That is his logical ceiling, but how many guys made a career out of being THE midcard heel? In the 1970s and 1980s, quite a few guys did, actually. There were guys that were solid, dependable heels that would be put out there in programs designed to elevate the hot prospect babyfaces to the next level (of course, that didn't always work). The closest they were ever going to get to main event status was the occasional jobber match with the World or secondary champ. And that was fine; they were never going to have to worry about carrying the company on their shoulders, and they had steady work bringing the company's next stars along and aiding in their development. That really was a viable career option until the mid-late 1990s and the Monday Night Wars, where (most likely due to the increased focus on ratings that hadn't been as big of a deal previously) over time the concept of "good solid midcarder" got kind of eroded away in favor of booking more and more stuff featuring the people who brought in the viewers; and also getting us to the current trend of bringing in more and more inexperienced workers who are (apparently) expected to learn all they need to know at the developmental facility. And who are considered failures if they don't get over immediately; or if they get over and are pushed to the moon, then just as quickly get de-pushed, and then fail to get back over a second time (aka current WWE booking strategy). There are still midcarders out there in WWE, of course. It's just that nowadays they're expected to get as popular with the crowd as the main eventers (especially in regards to moving merchandise). Which I think is really rather silly and unrealistic, but then I'm not in charge of the only major wrestling company in the world these days.
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Mar 29, 2012 09:01
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Sikki Nixx posted:I guess that my intent didn't come through with the way I worded that, because the point I was trying to make was in conjunction with what you said. I was saying being the solid midcarder was, and still should be a viable role in wrestling. As you said, the "Crash TV" booking, has made it less prominent today, but a few guys, like Cody Rhodes, and (hopefully) Jack Swagger seem to be reprising it as of late. I will agree with you 100% on Cody, that "handcuffs and boxing gloves" beatdown he laid on Big Show could have come straight out of the 1980s. Plus he seems perfectly happy to play a heel that everyone hates, instead of trying to be a "cool" heel that everyone ends up cheering for. Which are all qualities a solid midcard heel should have.  Sikki Nixx posted:I apologize in advance for the double post, but I wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'm not a huge comic book fan, bt when I was talking with my buddy who is a big fan, but doesn't know jack about wrestling, he was telling me about the dark age of comics that was hot in the 90s. It had the same shades of grey charcters, over the top violence, and dark atmosphere of the attitude era. The problem is that people became desensitized to the violence, and the genre was spread too thin in all the wrong directions. Rather than focusing on the top notch character development, the companies focused of the violence, and sexually explicit content. The resulting backlash caused comics to revert back to where they were post dark age, with those types of comics being the exception to the rule. Still they have their deciated fanbase. Sound familiar? Jim Cornette (and I am not a person who thinks Cornette is 100% right on everything) made a very good point about ECW in that while Heyman knew who and what to book, the constant reliance on increasingly dangerous gimmick matches created the "how do we top that?" dilemma. If you've put guys through tables, then you have to put guys through tables on fire, and once you've done that then you have to put thumbtacks down as well, wrap things in barbed wire, etc., etc. He also lamented the fact that it took a heavy toll on guys' bodies; as he once said, "We used to pretend to get hurt in matches, and people thought it was real. Now we actually do go out and get hurt, and people think it's fake." Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 30, 2012 |
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Mar 30, 2012 03:00
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bobkatt013 posted:You need to look up the Raven/Sandman segments that reveal that Raven is just a spoiled rich kid, and Sandman is his rich preppy neighbor. Then watch the Junkyard Invitation since basically 90% of the people in that match got injured. You mean a wrestler/group of wrestlers got popular with the fans when they weren't supposed to? Why I never!
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May 24, 2012 14:25
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LvK posted:Jesus Christ. Didn't expect to see a Vic Morrow joke anywhere. Anything can happen here in the Punch Sport Pagoda!
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Jun 6, 2012 21:38
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Perigryn posted:Paul Bearer said he's the only person he actually hates in all the time he's been in the business. Specifically this is because Vince told Bearer he wanted him to learn the production side of the business, because he felt PB had the potential to be really good at it. He told Dunn to work with PB, and (according to PB, so take it with whatever grains of salt you may require) Dunn immediately got paranoid about his job and proceeded to sabotage PB at every opportunity until PB finally got tired of it and quit.
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Jul 12, 2012 18:59
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Cromulent posted:Who can forget Tony Schiavone's comment when Hogan turned at Bash 96, "Everyone out of the dressing room to kick his rear end!" The only way it could have been any less edgy would be if he'd said "Get everyone out of the dressing room right now and kick Hogan's patootie!" <  >
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Apr 20, 2013 19:49
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Heenan also said that Schiavone would find out a piece of info (about anything, but usually angles) and either jealously guard it to make himself look more important when he revealed it; or else he'd lord it over Heenan and whoever else they were working with, in a "I know something that you don't know  " manner.
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Apr 22, 2013 19:59
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bobkatt013 posted:Can you make a list of people who Tony liked? I would think Jim and David Crockett (from the JCP-era NWA days) would probably be on that list, but who really knows for sure.
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Apr 22, 2013 20:25
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crankdatbatman posted:I feel like Hulk Hogan really was what brought the death of WCW. I guess he was the core of the nWo and what it made such a big deal (although in hindsight Hollywood Hogan kind of looks like someone's dad trying to be cool with his teenage son's friends), but--combined with the creative control bullshit he pulled and his lukewarm to negative reception he had in his first face run, Hulk Hogan just never seemed like a good idea. Hulk Hogan was always going to be an odd fit for WCW, at least before the nWo days. One thing to remember is that in many ways, WCW was still very much a Southern regional promotion. Booker T recently said in an interview about how, even at their height, WCW still tended to stick to the Southern circuit, with the occasional forays up North (to what Booker called "colder cities"). There was likely a sizable contingent of WCW's traditional fanbase that viewed Hogan as an interloper from "New York" and hated him for that reason alone.
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May 5, 2013 03:44
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I like Nash and all but he contradicts himself just as much as any other wrestler in trying to claim that he's not a mark for himself to some degree. In various shoot interviews he always goes on about how wrestling is just a job, and he didn't care about winning or losing, and he was just there to make money, and all that sort of thing. Then he'll turn right around and talk about how he argued with various guys (even Shawn at one time or another) about who was going to eat a loss in a match.
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May 5, 2013 20:29
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bartok posted:To be fair to Nash you do make more money when you are in the main event and you stay in the main event by winning. Yeah, I dunno, this sounds to me more like a rationalization used by guys who were insecure about their spot and paranoid about losing it.
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May 6, 2013 00:32
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Animal-Mother posted:Is there any evidence that the people running TNA have ever been cognizant of all the things WCW did wrong? Because they're feeding the same egos and re-hashing the same ideas. They even had Vince Russo writing for them. I dunno, but I don't mind reiterating that for all the lessons to be learned from WCW, apparently the only one Dixie and the rest of TNA management seem to have taken away was "If you spend a bunch of money, maybe one day you can beat Vince!  "
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May 6, 2013 02:15
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LividLiquid posted:Considering less than 1% of wrestling companies wound up being successful in the long run, I'd say TNA's doing quite well at going out of business for over ten years. They're like a carpet warehouse. Except that carpet warehouses are usually pretty successful in convincing their marks to part with their money.
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May 6, 2013 04:55
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LividLiquid posted:I did mix the metaphors there. Don't get me wrong, the "carpet warehouse" line was pretty good. WCW and TNA are both horribly wasteful companies when it comes to finances, but in WCW's case you could at least kind of understand why the money had been spent in so cavalier a manner (because Ted Turner had a grudge against Vince, and a powerful media empire that he could use to his advantage). In TNA's case it's pretty much just Dixie thinking she can spend her way to the #2 spot, without having to do all that pesky work. With the added bonus of never once realizing that her rasslin' company is literally one Spike TV executive reshuffle/Panda Energy investors' meeting away from being shut down. WCW ultimately had the same problem, of course, but that was only after Turner finally decided to sell off his media empire. I'm sure it never even crossed his mind that WCW might actually get closed down or have its' TV shows canceled after the sale was complete.
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May 6, 2013 07:44
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DrVenkman posted:I also don't think it helped that Bischoff was purely ratings obsessed. All he ever wanted to see were those numbers and how they stacked up against Raw. So they spent an incredible amount making sure that Nitro was good. Goldberg even mentions in that doc how he was at home on Thursday and learned he'd be fighting Hogan for the title on Monday Nitro. He made the point that imagine how great it would've been if they'd drawn that out and did it at a PPV instead, but hey, ratings! I have to think that Bischoff's obsessive focus on ratings was at least in part because he wanted to always be able to send reports to Ted Turner and other execs that showed just how well WCW was doing (and more specifically, whether they were kicking Vince's rear end or not). It was probably the best way to keep the money flowing, too; if he could prove they were still beating Vince in the ratings, Turner probably had zero problems giving Bischoff whatever amount of money he thought they needed to sign someone, go to a particular location, etc. Hell, the Road Wild PPVs were always a loss for the company, because they held them at Sturgis and charged zero admission for the bikers or anyone else to attend (and I believe they didn't get enough PPV buys to make up the cost). It's pretty telling that once Nitro finally went below Raw in the ratings for the last time and couldn't recover, all of a sudden the Turner guys started taking a more active interest in the show. I think Bischoff even mentioned that in one of the WWE Legends roundtables. He had previously been given a free hand to run WCW as he saw fit; then when things started to go pear-shaped, all of a sudden Turner execs were telling him what he should/shouldn't be doing. I think he said it wasn't too much longer after that when he decided to leave, and Vince Russo was hired as his replacement. And then things really went into the shitter.
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May 6, 2013 11:18
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coconono posted:Road Wild was kind of a cool idea, though. You had two super manly things, that shoulda went great together. But instead they didn't really click. So you had this scary raised ring and a bunch of bored bikers and the odd booby flash they had to edit out. And Harlem Heat getting much the same type of crowd reaction that New Jack got when he fought Gypsy Joe in that infamous "match" of theirs.
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May 6, 2013 17:37
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1st AD posted:My favorite, most enduring memory of WCW will be the final Nitro where they hosed up the live satellite link with Raw and had at least 1 or 2 entrance/video/graphics flubs during the broadcast. I am not sure how a company that is receiving gobs of free cash from Turner's empire could manage to gently caress up show production, but by god they managed to do it frequently. I would not be in the least bit surprised to hear that just like many of the wrestlers, a lot of the WCW production staff and crew were also making insane amounts of cash no matter how hard they did or didn't work.
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May 6, 2013 17:58
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bobkatt013 posted:A bunch of drunken drugged up bikers, what a great idea. I am sure that nothing could ever go wrong with them there. Just ask the Rolling Stones!
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May 6, 2013 19:23
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Rad R. posted:Does anyone remember Chastity? She was fine. Not a lot of photos of her around. I believe there's a pretty detailed video of her, though she's not on her own and had to share screen time with a couple of other people.
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May 7, 2013 00:48
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Animal-Mother posted:It was pretty gracious of McMahon to give Bischoff a job after all the poo poo he pulled. I would say it was more of an ego massage for Vince, in that he likely took more than a tiny bit of satisfaction from putting Bischoff--the guy who once came very close to bankrupting WWE--on the WWE payroll.
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May 9, 2013 00:32
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:I still can't loving believe WCW initially called the Ultimate Solution "The Final Solution". This was the same WCW that floated the idea of having Col. Parker bring Harlem Heat out in chains for their debut appearance, so I can't really say I'm all that surprised.
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May 13, 2013 13:03
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:At least that one got cut (or did they do it live, but then not show it on TV?). I think it was one of those things that had been kicked around by WCW's booking team before it was finally (mercifully) nixed... ...but with that said, I also wouldn't be the least bit shocked if it turns out that there were actual segments filmed, in front of a live crowd, where a stereotypical white Southerner brought out two black men in chains. Because WCW.
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May 13, 2013 13:21
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VogeGandire posted:I'm pretty sure they done it at one or two house shows and the crowd absolutely ripped it to shreds. To say nothing of how puzzled I'm sure they were at the crowd reaction to the whole "rappers vs. cowboys" feud a few years later.
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May 13, 2013 13:30
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Scirocco Griffon posted:Which is funny, since before the Attitude Era happened WCW was supposed to be the more serious alternative to WWF's cartoony larger than life style. To be fair, WCW's death throes were already well underway by then, so they were probably happy to just be able to work a deal with any company that had even a smidgen of brand name recognition value.
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May 14, 2013 18:01
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bobkatt013 posted:I assume the company saw that WWF New York was doing okay and they wanted in on it so they went to whoever was number two, and WCW at that pointed needed some money coming in. Which is amazing when you consider that when the Nitro Grill opened (in 1999, I believe), WCW hadn't even yet headed into their biggest money-losing year ever.
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May 14, 2013 18:08
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