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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I like how someone itt tried to say Hogan wasn't as bad as we remember by citing how good Roddy Piper and Lex Luger looked against him.

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Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a WWF/E period as wretched as WCW 99-01.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Seriously, watch the shows from back then. It's a goddamn SEA of signs.

Although most of those are "Oh my god you killed _______! You Bastard!" or related to Jerry Springer/Howard Stern

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Schiavone in the 80s NWA was really good, imo. Maybe it's because the alternative was David Crockett, but he fit.

The guy whose praise I don't quite get (nostalgia, but it goes beyond that) is Gorilla Monsoon. The guy was terrible. The only ability he had was to be able to play a good straight man with Ventura and Heenan. When he was with anybody else, he was abysmal, and when he wasn't doing banter with the aforementioned two he was also atrocious. He got moves wrong, sounded bored, and I remember a couple of times where it was said that some wrestlers didn't like him because he'd kill their moves by saying "Oh he'll get outta this one easily!" and poo poo.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Starrcade 97 wouldn't have been nearly awful if they had kept the title on Sting. Didn't they strip him like 2 weeks later?

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

What the loving HELL is going on in that goddamn bracket

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

That reminds me. Ready To Rumble. WCW made a movie for wrestling fans in which the main characters (wrestling fans) are retarded sewage workers.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I've seen pictures of Rey in Mexico with his mask so that is horseshit

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

He showed up in TNA, famously calling the rules for King of the Mountain "quite simple, really."

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I don't feel like watching it, but is that where Goldberg speared Russo out of the cage, but Russo was holding the belt

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

The problem is that the old guys, especially Hogan, would never do such a thing. Even if everything went right, he would still make himself out to be a good guy, a cool heel, and always come out on top.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Hahaha "WE'VE HEARD THE SHOOT INTERVIEWS OF THOSE INVOLVED"

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

TL posted:

I love how vicious Cornette attacks Sean Waltman in that video, yet he was back in the WWF less than a year later.

HHH did a radio interview back then saying Ric Flair was a washed up dinosaur that should retire.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I think they were going to give away a million dollars at that show too

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Cornette's OVW was great, and it's loving incredible he did it with WWE constantly loving up storylines with inopportune callups. Example: The Damaja and Doug Basham are in the middle of a huge blood feud, the biggest one in OVW. Then WWE calls them both up and puts them in a tag team.

Heyman was so unbelievably bad as OVW booker. MRP mentioned it, but he LOVED putting Punk and Brent Albright into absolutely wretched 45 minute matches just about every week. His angles were boring at best and lovely at worst. The characters weren't any good. It was just...bad.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

CombineThresher posted:

Judging from his Loveline appearances in the past, Piven actually is an interesting guy. And a total horndog, from what I've heard. However, I would mark uncontrollably if Ari Gold ever hosted Raw.

I've heard the guy's a total oval office who has let his fame from his lovely show go to his head.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Does this mean Raw is also in the same continuity as The Simpsons

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

"I am disrespectful to dirt!"

-Steve Austin

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I remember having to watch the ISDN versions of Titantron videos in 1999. They were so blocky and compressed.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

IIRC people were required to go, too.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

You didn't know about Yoshi Kwan? I thought he was one of the color pictures inside of Death of WCW.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Nash has made money without working too hard. Goldberg made a ton of money for a year of work.


In terms of who suffered the most, I'd probably say Junior Fatu. He was looking like a main eventer until the WCW sale went down and then...nothing.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Also the other thread was closed so I'll say it here: Rise & Fall of WCW is garbage. I expected merely a whitewashing and it's so much worse.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I mean, I get that they can't essentially do a 10 hour Ken Burns style documentary, and they're basically selling to a niche portion of their fanbase. But they spent so much time talking about stupid poo poo very quickly, and they glossed over so much, even the stuff that would have made WCW look bad! Where was GAB 91 & Starrcade 97? How do you make a WCW documentary without those? How was Russo's segment like 3 minutes?

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Mr. Carlisle posted:

WWE now owns WCW and doesn't want to 'devalue their own brand'.

As a wise man once said, "A little too loving late for that realization"

Good Listener posted:

The Rise and Fall of WCW is really disappointing because the Rise and Fall of ECW was so awesome. I assume it's because they had to reuse a lot of old interviews due to a lot of the people ending up in TNA or something like that. Just a thought.

Reuse of interviews has pretty much nothing to do with it. The reused interviews were fine. It was just the staggering amount of information they left out or got wrong.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Dragging Iron Feet posted:

The one thing I learned from the Death of WCW is that Mike Graham is the smartest man in the universe.

What a coincidence, I learned that from the episodes of Legends of Wrestling he was on!

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

The Sting-Hogan match is generally accepted as the beginning of the end. It should have been about 10-12 minutes of Sting beating the gently caress out of Hogan and winning clean, but what we got was a ton of bullshit, and Hogan getting screwed twice.

Then as mentioned Sting gives up the belt 2 weeks later anyway.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

If you haven't seen the Bobby Heenan documentary WWE did...well, it's not that great, but it has a segment from the big Observer WCW funny moments thing where Madusa and Heenan act like Nitro cologne smells like poo poo

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Giedroyc posted:

It skimmed over his 7 years with WCW in less than 7 minutes, the oddest bit about the whole thing was basically how it just assumes Heenan is dead. They keep dragging his wife on to talk about things in the past tense and Bobby himself doesn't give a comment on anything.

Well I don't think Bobby can talk, and his WCW tenure was pretty useless.

But the rest of it was pretty lovely. It started as a life story documentary and quickly became "18 guys telling the viewer how great Bobby was, interspersed with 5-10 second clips of him."

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Greed is a really great but really sad show. Everyone busted their rear end, and it really looked like they might be able to salvage things, and then...

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I can't see any possibility other than Hogan meddling. I doubt Nick Patrick would forget to do a fast count in the biggest match in the WCW history.

HHH is really smart, because he realized what Hogan's mistake was: He NEVER lost. Losing occasionally is fine, especially on PPV, which is what HHH does. That means he gets his comeuppance once in awhile. He loses at a high profile show like WM, and almost never loses or looks weak on free TV, shows which are watched by exponentially more people.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

jeffersonlives posted:

if there ever comes a day when they fall out of NBC Universal favor (which considering the trials and tribulations there isn't a total impossibility)

Man, this is something to think about. What if one day some bigwig at the new NBC decides either "You know, we don't need wrestling" or "Dump Smackdown?" What does WWE do? Nobody notable wants them. Spike has UFC. Anyone who would want them wouldn't be anywhere near as big as they would want. Raw on Versus or Fox Sports would be a disaster.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

There's a big difference between a 5-minute free TV match with a cheap finish and 20+ minute main event on PPV, and I think any fan who orders PPVs understands that.

Clearly not, as PPV buyrates have crashed.

If two guys wrestle on free TV, whether it's 5 minutes or 50 minutes, they have faced off. Never before seen matches is a really good way to draw interest, and throwing poo poo on free TV is a great way to kill it.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I mean, think beyond free TV. Think about all the potential moneymaking feuds they've blown.

-They blow off Edge vs. Cena for WM22 even though it was interesting. Then they just have the two feud for the rest of the year on free TV and a bunch of B-shows and they never reclaimed that initial magic. Because they had a loving self-contained feud in 3 weeks in January

-Randy Orton vs. John Cena was teased all the way back at Summerslam 2004. At the time, everyone simultaneously thought "Holy poo poo that is gonna be huge at WM23 or whatever." It felt important. It felt like the new generation was coming. What do they do? They drive it into the ground on free TV and B-shows. There wasn't even a good story with it, like THE TWO WRESTLING PRODIGIES STEP UP TO DETERMINE WHO IS THE BEST. It was just two dudes in a stock WWE feud for the belt. Two geeks fighting for a prop.

-Batista vs. John Cena, which at the time was WWE's last feud they hadn't managed to touch, one that probably could have been a good WM feud. So of course they throw it on a Summerslam. With a terrible build, one that was essentially "uh hey these guys don't have a match. watch them fight i guess."

LividLiquid posted:

Spike would drop TNA, pick up RAW and Ultimate Fighter would move back to a post-Raw timeslot.

Absolutely not. No way. UFC is their cash cow now, and it won't be playing second fiddle to WWE anytime soon, if ever.

Also reminder that Spike all but told WWE to gently caress themselves and kicked them off because they didn't want them anymore

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

Yes, and we all know buyrates are exclusively dependent on just one factor and have nothing to do with things like bad storylines, the rise of MMA or failure to build new stars.

Bad storylines can survive with good matchmaking, and buyrates were sinking well before the rise of MMA and the current dearth of new stars.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

WWE has a streaming service and it's pretty great, although it's Windows only.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

JohnWilkesGoonth posted:

Captain Charisma mentioned this but this already exists. http://www2.wwe.com/subscriptions/wweclassics/

It's kinda skimpy on the content at times but it's very cheap.

WWE was actually pretty ahead of the curve on this, as they first put it up in 2005 or so, way before Hulu or Netflix streaming really started the streaming trend.

Unfortunately that also meant relying on lovely technology, and for some reason they're still relying on said lovely technology.

The library has vastly improved, though. They have full episodes of Wrestling Challenge, Saturday Night's Main Event, and Superstars from the 80s and 90s, which are fun.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

I think it was the 2004 Rumble that had JR and Tazz and I thought it was a really good combo. Tazz seemed to actually give a poo poo since he had someone actually good at their job with him.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

Was that the Sid/Goldberg where Sid looked like a murder victim and it was stopped or was that Halloween Havoc

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Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

THQ going to Yukes and dumping AKI was bad enough, but them having an actually good engine for DOR 1 & 2 and then not using it again might be even worse.

The SVR games are finally decent now, but it wasn't worth 10 years of mostly bad Smackdown/SVR titles to get there when AKI could have been making them the entire time.

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