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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Dario Delfino posted:

Another reason I love that particular moment (Heenan facepalming) is it used to happen all the time. Seriously, ALL THE TIME. Go watch WCW from the mid/late '90s, and listen to Heenan trying to work with Schiavone or Bischoff (mainly the former). They're improvising, as they should, but there were so many times that Heenan would say something in character, and Schiavone would shoot him down with no wit, nothing but an annoyed "Shup up, Lamebrain!" Seriously, Heenan used to give that guy so many openings and Schiavone had no idea how to work with him. As time went on, it really did bring Heenan's game down, he stopped caring and a few times sounded drunk on commentary.

It's really sad, but WCW would've brought wrestling to another level had management been able to get people to understand they all had to work together. Everyone really was in it for themselves.

Yeah, I was listening to a few things with Schiavone and Heenan on WCW together, and Schiavone was just a oval office. Whatever about Michael Cole not being a very good announcer, he doesn't just exude rudeness and unprofessionalism like Schiavone did. I got the impression that Heenan was trying and that Schiavone either couldn't or wouldn't try to do a good job. I couldn't tell if that was supposed to be in character or what.

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Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Dario Delfino posted:

I really liked Larry on commentary. Even when he'd say things like, "you can't trust the Japanese, they have seven hearts!"

That's the sort of information the viewer at home simply doesn't have.

Except the Japanese I suppose.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Skinty McEdger posted:

Raw was a pretaped show that night as well. They actually knew exactly what they would be going head to head with when they made that decision. Oh and it was the go home show to STARCADE 97.

You know, I didn't watch Nitro or Raw at the time, but I can understand the rationale in the abstract. It was the NWO at their height adn they were showing what would happen if Hogan beat Sting, and the NWO took over and changed everything. Admitedly the execution was appalling but the idea was sound. I just would have had the set built beforehand, I suppose.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

I'd love to see the first Scott Hall invasion episode of Nitro. I've seen the clip of him arriving, but I'd like to see what the whole show looked like

gently caress it, I'd like to see all the nitros, I've never really seen one.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

DeclaredYuppie posted:

Probably unrelated to their self-destruction, but I fondly remember the night early in Goldberg's push where a drunken and pudgy Steve Regal went out stiffed the crap out of Goldberg.

Horray for big muscleheads getting beat up by guys who know how to fight.

That was a pretty good match. I don't think Regal stiffed him *that* much.He just led Goldberg through a match longer than Goldberg or anyone thought it should be, as far asI could see.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

He was probably better for it, no one liked Goldberg because he did a kneebar or mastered all the different ways there are to destroy your own knees in the ring.

I did. :-(

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

triplexpac posted:

People say this, but I dunno I thought it was pretty clear that the New Bloods were heels and the Millionaires Club were the faces.

The MC was full of all the old guys people loved, and the New Blood were the disrespectful youngsters trying to take the top spots through cheating and sneakiness rather than "earning it".

It's weird that they thought people would like a group named the Millionaire's club.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

This is not remotely important, but when Roddy Piper was coming in to feud with Hogan, and he does a music video, and they say 'THERE'S A MESSAGE FOR HOGAN HERE' and the song is about how this girl is cute and how he wants to bang her, what message was I supposed to draw from that?

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

The Big Taff Man posted:

" despite how good he was."??????

The first run of Big Bossman he was massively over, and had some great things he could do in the ring.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Akileese posted:

I always liked Mongo. I cannot explain why. I haven't gone back to watch old Nitros for PTSD purposes but I used to think "man this guy can't wrestle for poo poo but he's a pretty good promo!". I have no idea if this is true or not.

I never saw Mongo at the time but he does have something. He carries himself like the works biggest dickhead, and he's not great at talking but he can get what he needs to say in a promo across.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

I was watching nitro last night. Kevin Sullivan, the faces of fear and Hugh Morrus: a group of sort of crazies/possibly supernatural. Fine.

What the gently caress was Konnan doing with them? He's a Mexican gangster homeboy or something.

Also Jim powers is juiced as gently caress.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

dont even fink about it posted:

I just don't know that this would have been enough in 99-01 to keep him on the shows as anything but a comedy act.

Triple H is a Ric Flair tribute act so it might have worked out regardless.

Ric Flair was still an awesome talker. I think he could have pulled one last IC run off, and stuck around as a big deal upper carder. If he'd palled up with the Radicals who needed a talker like Rick. Well, Eddie didn't but he couldhave worked tagging with Benoit or Saturn as an odd couple.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Because Terry Crews is extremely cool.

I never saw battlebowl but I saw the odd clip and Terry Crews looked great and like a star in it. I remembered him from that when he was in other things, which is a testament to how Terry Crews Terry Crews is. I never remember anyone from anything.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Say Nothing posted:

I think they paid some huge sum of money just to have him walk to the ring to Jimi Hendrix 'Voodoo Chile', only to have Mike Tenay call the song 'Voodoo Chilli'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81BbT4gaB4w

Worth it.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

NikkolasKing posted:

How long was the Dungeon of Doom around for in WCW? I'm watching the Nitro from the end of '96 and it feels sort of...incongruous to hear their entrance music and stuff alongside the nWo. The former are sort of like a relic from the "old" WCW , and yet here they are, right alongside the modernizing WCW.

I never had cable as a kid so I missed Nitro but I know vaguely about the history of WCW in the 90s. Plus I had this VHS compilation tape of...Fall Brawl I think it was? The one where they have teams facing off against each other and one of them had Giant twisting off Hogan's head which I think Heenan (RIP) made a great comment about.

But, yeah, that was sort of my "impression" of WCW, seeing it from year-to-year like that. That's probably why I sort of associate the DoD with being part of the older WCW they were trying to move away from by '96.

It's nice seeing Meng and Barbs though.

I think to the beginning of 97? I was watching those recently and it's very VERY strange to have the Dungeon in there. They're certainly around shouting about how they won't be ignored while the NWO are doing their thing.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

I saw very little nitro when it was on but Buff seemed incredibly assholish. The stupid hat, everything was calculated to annoy me. I would have loved if he got more of a run in WWE doing the same thing.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

This begs the question of why Miller was present for Frye's negotiations in the first place. Is Bischoff that much of a jock sniffer he needs the atheletes he employs around him at all times?

One of the bummers about Miller is that a karate expert who acts like Ali could be a really fun character if done well and done by someone the fans have a reason to be invested in

Wasn't he Bischoff's kids trainer? I presume he was there because he was a mate at that point.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

NikkolasKing posted:

I always hear people say Douglas is a whiny no talent punk but it does sound like he was genuinely hosed over at a couple points. That sucks to hear.

Dean Malenko might be a robot but apparently he's a shrewd, dickish robot. Not even like his WWF run was anything. Even Saturn and Moppy got over more than Malenkon did, nevermind World Champions Benoit and Eddie.


And I wonder why Asya was even with Revolution. Christi Wolf had a nice, distinct look and maybe not much else but taht was enough for me.

They could have done something with Malenko that didn't rely on his personality, but they made him a ladykiller and with the best will in the world, that's a hard sell.

He was fabulous in that six man against Too Cool. I still remember him in that. And the crowd hated him

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Willninho posted:

So is 1999 WCW the worst year in wrestling history considering artistically and financial damage? I mean thereís bad late AWA years but they werenít really national or anything at that point or early 90s wcw had bad quality years but they were flatlined already.

I remember we got late period AWA on ESPN in Ireland. They had reach at that point, but everything was so godawful. They just weren't imaginatively bad.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

shiksa posted:

im getting (really really) into osw reviews, and pre-nwo wcw is the best era of bad wrestling to watch, and it is simply astounding that they paid michael buffer so much to do announcing jobs in front of crowds of, like, 6,500, and he never, ever, ever learns anything about the product, the wrestlers, or even the basic rules and concepts of professional wrestling over the entire run.

it was pretty incredibly bad and dumb but yeah dude in the 90s hearing that dude yell "lllllets get ready to ruuumbllleeeeee" was like moths to a flame. just an all-time great catchphrase. it lasted so long he got TWO pretty good dreamcast games.

I first heard of him from the boxing games, then I was surprised as hell that he was in WCW. It was a nice idea having him in but I'd have only had him for a couple of PPVs to give it a bit of an aura.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

I loved Lex Luger, when I was a kid. I remember he won the title from Ric Flair with the backbreaker but that loving athletic commission stopped the match due to blood flow. In my mind's eye I can still see Luger jumping up and celebrating. It was on some compilation WCW show, and it was amazing.

I loved the bionic elbow, and he was an awesome babyface when he just trundled the baddies.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

He also would say, when asked what he would do to heels, 'Maybe a little of this' and flex and I would feel that Here Was A Badass.

It helped that he was basically by far the most ripped dude in NWA/WCW at the time. Barry Windham and Ric and the lads were great but I confidently believed he could pull most of their heads off if he had their necks in his hands and somewhere to brace himself against.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

The American Dream posted:

We all talk bout buff bagwell a hat. But how come no one talks about his white denim overalls with nwo screened on the bib.

I was watching WCW Greed last night because I hate myself and I want to die and I thought Buff was amazing at being a dick. I think they wasted him so badly. The natural born thrillers squashed both him and Luger and I was sad.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

rujasu posted:

Early years of TNA, pretty much every angle was a bad version of WCW, or to a lesser extent WWE/ECW, but at least they had AJ Styles and a handful of other guys who were elite in-ring performers.

I guess their audio quality wasn't as bad as WCW though? Most WCW shows I remember, it sounded like there was like one guy in the crowd holding up a mic and all the sound was going through that.

Yeah I noticed that about WCW shows. They all sound really quiet even though you can see people going mental. Also their ring looks solid compared to the WWE bouncy ring. Would not fancy that at all.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

MrBling posted:

Out of curiosity, the people complaining about the audio. Have you watched the nice quality HD versions on the WWE Network? Because everything sounds fine there.

THat's where I watched it. It just sounds quieter than the raws of the same time, even though WCW was hotter as a show.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

BGrifter posted:

I totally forgot Silver King was a thing.

Silver King doesn't look like a Silver King. I remember reading recaps and in my head he was a skinny little lad with a silver mask, not a big lad.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Lead Pipe Cinch posted:

Kind of funny to me that they didnít want him to wear wrestling boots, but he continued to call it a Jacknife Powerbomb for the entirety of his WCW run, which is probably the most viable in-road to saying they were using their IP.

I thought they called it the Truckstop powerbomb in WCW? I think it was referred to that in games or something.

I do remember in his WWF run at the end he was saying he wasn't going to acknowledge fans who didn't have the glove on. Cool heel stuff.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Hedgehog Pie posted:

I feel like the other issue was that they needed a new All-American babyface for the USS Entrepid angle with Hogan out, and All-American Bret Hart didn't quite cut it for some reason.

HACKSAW JIM DUGGAN WAS RIGHT THERE

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Randaconda posted:

also sports-like!

Yeah I found it very realistic, for want of a better word. If it's a hot product people want to advertise on it.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Pope Corky the IX posted:

And that's why your mother's rear end looks like a NASCAR jacket.

I will pass along your kind words, friend.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

forkboy84 posted:

His promos were Ultimate Warrior level incoherent but entertaining and his wrestling was totally passable to a viewer even if he was unsafe for the guy wrestling him.

I still remember on WWF Attitude he'd say 'GET READY..., FOR A BEATIN'

And I took that threat seriously.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

The American Dream posted:

I spent 2 days painting my grandparents new shed for the money for Wwf warzone.

Then electronics boutique offered revenge for $10 if you traded in WWF Warzone towards it, greatest trade in the history of our sport.

I spent all my time superkicking my friend with Shawn Michaels in Warzone, but the stun effect from it was incredibly short lived. I was never able to hit the moonsault after, which was of course my goal at the time.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

Gavok posted:

I've been reading the Nitro book and while I'm almost done (I'm up to Hogan leaving for good), I have to talk about the hilarious Kronik mace incident, which is new to me.

The Kronik guys are meant to be taken down by some security guards and rather than get local wrestling talent, they just hired actors. The actors were given instructions to club them down and mace them, except they had to mace them in the chin so as not to hit them in the eyes.

One guy went, "You're using real mace?! Why don't you just put water in there instead?"

"Because we're paying you to mace them, not to spray them with water!"

And of course Clark and Adams were angrily warning them that they would find them and kick their asses if they got them in the eyes. The whole segment ended up being pure chaos.

WCW, everybody.

TBH if you've just maced someone in the eyes, and you're still holding the can of mace, I think you're probably going to be ok no matter how angry they are.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

sean_bateman posted:

Was that the night the stooges came out to Real American? Because I remember marking out for it

iirc yes. I was heavily invested at the time.

Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

bobkatt013 posted:

And more willing to gently caress corpses and appear on Alex Jones

I'm pretty sure Taker was just never asked to appear.

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Von Linus
Apr 6, 2006
I complete me.

I didn't get to see any WCW at the time but I got a video of Spring STampede I think it was? Scott Steiner was there with Buff in his Stupid loving Hat and I swear, Buff was the star of the show to me.

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