Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

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GutBomb: Jun 15, 2005; Dude?

Couch posted:

Someone post that write up about how Kroenke took over the MLS team and promised heaps but didn't really deliver.

GutBomb posted:

When Kroenke bought the Colorado Rapids of MLS he was seen as something of a savior of the team because at the time the team was owned by AEG, an entertainment conglomerate that back then owned like 6 MLS teams (in a 10 team league). I think they owned the Metrostars (Now owned by Red Bull and renamed to the New York Red Bulls), San Jose Earthquakes (who moved to Houston and became the Houston Dynamo and are still owned by AEG. A new ownership group now owns a new incarnation of the San Jose Earthquakes), Los Angeles Galaxy (Still owned by AEG), Colorado Rapids, DC United (Sold to DC United Holdings), and Chicago Fire (Sold to Andell Holdings). Also at the time the Dallas Burn (Renamed to FC Dallas), Columbus Crew, and Kansas City Wizards (sold to OnGoal, and recently rebranded to Sporting Kansas City) were owned by Lamar Hunt, so owners owning multiple teams was not unheard of. Colorado were definitely on the bottom of AEG's priority list and were getting shafted with TV broadcasts of away games, horribly oppressive security, and no stadium plans (they paid rent to play in the Denver Broncos american football stadium). In comes Stan Kroenke with his wife's Wal-Mart billions to save the day... but he really didn't. Costs were cut, ticket prices increased, they brought in cheerleaders, they changed the team colors and crest (to align with the other Denver sports teams that Kroenke owned, the Denver Nuggets of the NBA and the Colorado Avalanche of the NHL), there was a management shakeup that ended up being for the worse. There was talk of renaming the team (to coincide with the new color and crest) to Arsenal Colorado because of his link with Arsenal but Nike owns the rights to the Arsenal trademark in the US when related to soccer and were not willing to let an Adidas sponsored league field a team called Arsenal. Fan-favorite players were sold off, the broadcasting situation became even worse. One season only 6 (of 16) away games were available on TV, and while they did fire the worst coach the Rapids had ever seen up to that point they hired one that would do even worse, and they kept him for 3 miserable seasons before he finally resigned over some spur of the moment tiff with the ownership. They are doing a lot better now, but that's mostly due to luck and the extreme parity of MLS. The Rapids actually won the championship last season (the champion is crowned in a post-season knockout tournament based on where teams placed in the table for the regular season). The Rapids barely made it into the playoffs after being denied entry the 2 previous seasons and were able to get a good run of form during the playoffs and won the title.

It was a sobering reality though to see the team being treated like dirt by it's savior by basically taking what little AEG was doing to keep the team competitive and downsizing on that after making so many promises to the contrary.

Admittedly they did build the Rapids a pretty nice stadium but there was a point last season before they did well in the playoffs that the stadium seemed like nothing more than the shiny part of the polished turd that the Rapids had become over the time that Kroenke took over.

To expand on this a little bit, the coach that was brought in by KSE was Fernando Clavijo who played for the US and also played a bit of indoor soccer, as well as most recently before that being the head coach of the Haiti national team. He was brought in for two reasons. Tim Hankinson, the guy he was replacing was awful, and he would be cheaper. Clavijo was an MLS retread, he'd coached (and been fired from) the New England Revolution to a losing record in 2002. His entire run as Rapids head coach he was paid a salary of $50,000 per year. I imagine many of you made more than that. He was terrible, had a losing record every season, and was a very inconsistent tactician. (well he was consistent at losing)

He was kept on for 3 years because KSE knew that any replacement would cost more and having a losing team was ok if they didn't have to pay (the mls version of) top dollar for a decent coach. When he finally did resign (It was probably a forced resignation) he was replaced by the assistant, who was most likely on even less money. I don't know what his pay is now because I haven't kept up with it.

Coaching is not the only place where KSE scrimped. MLS has a salary cap which is fairly low ($2.3ish million per year for the entire team) and colorado has been consistently under that cap. When the cap is so low many teams struggle to stay under. Colorado has been different. They've consistently stayed under since KSE came in.

I'll admit with big money operations like the Premier League, Champions League and Arsenal themselves KSE might handle it differently. I don't see a lot of Avalanche, Nuggets, or Rams fans bitching about Kroenke. It may be that MLS really is a minor league sport and he's treating it as such. It may be that he personally is really hands off and leaves the operation to underlings (the GM of the rapids is a douchebag named Jeff Plush). These concerns may all be unfounded and not apply to this takeover in any way shape or form.

NattyBo posted:

Except he got them a brand new, great looking soccer specific stadium and they won MLS cup last year?

Aside from lifting the trophy did the rapids ever look like champions last season to you? And the stadium is a multi-purpose venue for many KSE vehicles. Lacrosse, football, soccer, concerts, etc... There's also a reason it says colorado and not rapids on the seats. It's a KSE stadium, not a Rapids stadium.

GutBomb fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 12, 2011

# ? Apr 12, 2011 18:13

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 08:39

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

GutBomb posted:

Aside from lifting the trophy did the rapids ever look like champions last season to you? And the stadium is a multi-purpose venue for many KSE vehicles. Lacrosse, football, soccer, concerts, etc... There's also a reason it says colorado and not rapids on the seats. It's a KSE stadium, not a Rapids stadium.

He doesn't even own the stadium.

# ? Apr 12, 2011 18:19

GutBomb: Jun 15, 2005; Dude?

wicka posted:

He doesn't even own the stadium.

Right, it's owned by the city of Commerce City (a suburb of Denver) but KSE does have a pretty sweet lease deal.

# ? Apr 12, 2011 18:32

Bea Nanner: Oct 20, 2003; Je suis excité!

wicka posted:

He doesn't even own the stadium.

I can't think of an individual that straight up owns a stadium in the US.

# ? Apr 12, 2011 21:30

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8446713/New-York-Times-takes-major-stake-in-Liverpool-football-club.html

John Henry had to release more ownership information connected to Liverpool. It turns out that the New York Times Company is the second largest shareholder in the club. I wonder what drove that investment decision given how much trouble the traditional news media sector is in right now.

# ? Apr 12, 2011 23:28

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

HinderedUseless posted:

I can't think of an individual that straight up owns a stadium in the US.

Robert Kraft

# ? Apr 13, 2011 00:31

SporkOfTruth: Sep 1, 2006; this kid walked up to me and was like man schmitty your stache is ghetto and I was like whatever man your 3b look like a dishrag.

he was like damn.

HinderedUseless posted:

I can't think of an individual that straight up owns a stadium in the US.

Jerry Jones, surely.

# ? Apr 13, 2011 05:04

Bobby Digital: Sep 4, 2009

SporkOfTruth posted:

Jerry Jones, surely.

I think it's the city of Arlington, actually.

# ? Apr 13, 2011 05:57

Truth: Feb 24, 2005

TyChan posted:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8446713/New-York-Times-takes-major-stake-in-Liverpool-football-club.html

John Henry had to release more ownership information connected to Liverpool. It turns out that the New York Times Company is the second largest shareholder in the club. I wonder what drove that investment decision given how much trouble the traditional news media sector is in right now.

They have a large interest in the red sox and NESN so not surprising.

# ? Apr 13, 2011 09:27

Nis: Feb 21, 2011

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/15/birmingham-city-europe-fa-premier-league

Looks like Birmingham City are going to have problems getting the UEFA license? Liverpool in the Europa League again? lol

# ? Apr 15, 2011 01:27

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Pissflaps posted:

when taters sounds sensible you know its bad

# ? Apr 15, 2011 03:25

Was Taters: Jul 30, 2004; Here comes a regular

That's hurtful, man.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 03:44

Couch: May 16, 2004; COME ON TOT!

Homura posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/15/birmingham-city-europe-fa-premier-league

Looks like Birmingham City are going to have problems getting the UEFA license? Liverpool in the Europa League again? lol

Surely they aren't that hard up? Don't you basically have to be in administration to not get the license?

# ? Apr 15, 2011 04:09

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Was Taters posted:

That's hurtful, man.

It was more surprise at how uninformed the majority of the thread was and so appreciation for the general level of chat we now have in this forum. It was actually really interesting to read with the benefit of hindsight, especially Finn saying he'd be utterly devastated if anything like that were to happen to Liverpool. You were saying some of the most sensible stuff in there though, sorry if that sounds patronising.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 04:13

Ninpo: Aug 6, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Couch posted:

Surely they aren't that hard up? Don't you basically have to be in administration to not get the license?

Didn't they change the rules post Portsmouth and now you have to provide financials that show you can operate for the coming season? Apparently Yeung is mortgaging poo poo like crazy to put more money into the club.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 08:41

TimberJoe: Oct 24, 2010; aww yeah im on this burger and shit

Winner of the PWM POTM for March 2012

We're going to be bought again :toot:

http://pompeypages.com/2011/04/14/new-owners-on-the-brink-are-they-fit-and-proper/

quote:

s the news surrounded Pompey forums, websites and newspapers this morning that the proposed new owners to takeover at Portsmouth Football Club were one step closer to completing the deal, many will be worried about how genuine they actually are.

The proposed new owners, although not officially confirmed, are Roman Dubov, Vladimir Antonov and Chris Akers, the trio behind Convers Sports Initiatives who have submitted a bid to buy Pompey and will be required to complete a number of checks and tests in order to proceed with any takeovers.

Although many Pompey fans aren�t holding their breath about the new owners and yet another rumoured bid, the Football League has confirmed �We have had some information submitted relating to the ownership of Portsmouth, and we can confirm that the process to buy the club is ongoing.�

This now means the prospective new owners will now have to go through the joke of the FIT AND PROPER PERSON TEST.

We all remember the sham that saw Sulamain Al-Fahim and Ali-Al Miraj Faraj take over Portsmouth last season before selling it on to current owner Balram Chainrai after the world discovered they had no money and had some how passed the required test by playing with figures and taking loans.

After the mockery of this test was revealed, the FA have focused strongly on how to improve it and tighten the standards and requirements needed to take on a football club, because at the end of the day football is not a profitable business for many club owners.

According to Wikpedia (you never know how reliable it really is), in 2009 Vladimir Antonov, the main party of the trio involved with Convers Sports Initiaves, was accused to be involved with some sort of mafia, whilst an investigation found connections between the Antonov family and organized crime, as well as involvement in money laundering, but all allegations were withdrawn and no proof was ever found.

Is this a good sign that it was never proven and was just an allegation, or are Pompey taking on a bad influence or in order to save the club�s financial state and push Portsmouth Football Club to the heights where they should be.

You can check out the real Fit & Proper Person Test here. http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20100801/appendix-4_2293633_2128219

If the move is completed, the takeover can reportedly be completed by the end of the month, and with the close of the season soon upon us, the use of new owners and injected funds in to the club will surely help with the development of the squad and the club.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 08:46

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Nikolai Fuckharin posted:

We're going to be bought again

http://pompeypages.com/2011/04/14/new-owners-on-the-brink-are-they-fit-and-proper/

loving hell this must be the 6th in 2 years?

# ? Apr 15, 2011 09:20

Popehoist: Feb 5, 2008; There you go rubens, all your fault! You went on the wrong side of the car!

agreed, pompey out (of the football league)

# ? Apr 15, 2011 10:28

Zip!: Aug 14, 2008; Keep on pushing
little buddy

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-raise-stamford-bridge-ticket-price-to-16387-2267923.html

Bloody hell!

# ? Apr 15, 2011 11:57

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

That URL's a little misleading.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 12:09

Barry Shitpeas: Dec 17, 2003; there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013

Pong Lenis posted:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-raise-stamford-bridge-ticket-price-to-16387-2267923.html

Bloody hell!

it's not like any of those matches will ever make it through to general sale anyway

# ? Apr 15, 2011 12:42

Barry Shitpeas: Dec 17, 2003; there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013

they have been a bit sneaky though in claiming that category A and B prices are fixed since they've moved Villa, Fulham and Everton up from B to A.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 12:54

delicious beef: Feb 5, 2006

Still not close to Arsenal.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 13:48

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

delicious beef posted:

Still not close to Arsenal.

Yeah, but then a Kebab is always going to be cheaper than a four course french meal, even in London!

# ? Apr 15, 2011 14:25

FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

*forms kebab into ring, serves on expensive plate*

*trebles price*

*drops kebab at feet of Obafemi Martins*

# ? Apr 15, 2011 15:02

fat gay nonce: May 13, 2003; _{actual penis length: |-----------|}

Winner, PWM POTM January

*visits kebab shop many miles from home so he can make posts about how good his kebab shop is despite having many closer kebab shops*????

# ? Apr 15, 2011 15:04

FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

BunnyX posted:

*visits kebab shop many miles from home so he can make posts about how good his kebab shop is despite having many closer kebab shops*????

This doesn't work, because why wouldn't you go the best kebab shop (and then get a discount by badmouthing Any Turkish Presence On Cyprus/Literally Anyone Greek).

# ? Apr 15, 2011 15:07

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

I only like kebabs that have been hurled 40 meters through the air.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 15:11

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

To vaguely defend Chelsea, unlike a decent number of other clubs they reduce prices massively to fill the place for cup matches.

Carling Cup is �20 any seat, FA Cup �25, Champions League Group - �30.

And those are the matches I actually get to.

Arsenal btw are another club that's good with this.

I don't know how much if at all those prices are affected for next year.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 19:09

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

And the answer is "Dodgily"

Carling �25, FA Cup �30, CL Group �40.

Fair enough, but no way am I paying �40 for whatever next year's MSK Zilina is so I'll miss an extra match.

http://www.chelseafc.com/staticFiles/74/70/0,,10268~159860,00.doc

Full ticket policy if any Chelsposters aren't still hiding under their beds.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 19:13

w00bi: Dec 11, 2004

With the financial rules they have to get around the small stadium somehow and someone pointed out on twitter that the increased ticket prices for the Copenhagen game made around 1.96m even with 10k less attendance than a league game which only brought in 1.07m, or somewhere around those numbers. I guess they're willing to take the drop in attendance for the boost in revenue.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 19:19

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I can't eat kebabs.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 19:27

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

w00bi posted:

With the financial rules they have to get around the small stadium somehow and someone pointed out on twitter that the increased ticket prices for the Copenhagen game made around 1.96m even with 10k less attendance than a league game which only brought in 1.07m, or somewhere around those numbers. I guess they're willing to take the drop in attendance for the boost in revenue.

That seems bollocks since they charged league prices FOR Copenhagen.

But yes, it probably got more than they did for MSK.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 19:34

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Dudley posted:

That seems bollocks since they charged league prices FOR Copenhagen.

But yes, it probably got more than they did for MSK.

Most matchday income is from corporate boxes.

Arsenal make around 2.5 mil a game I think it is. That isn't from £50 seats and pies.

# ? Apr 15, 2011 20:06

Panic! At The Tesco: Aug 19, 2005; FART

Masonity posted:

Most matchday income is from corporate boxes.

Arsenal make around 2.5 mil a game I think it is. That isn't from £50 seats and pies.

pies are �50 at arsenal? better be some good loving pies

# ? Apr 15, 2011 21:59

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Irn--Bru posted:

pies are �50 at arsenal? better be some good loving pies

i only eat at the emirates. international breaks are hard hard times

# ? Apr 16, 2011 00:38

MoPZiG: Jun 6, 2006

People who cant afford Stamford Bridge tickets can go to Hell! ...or Fulham

# ? Apr 16, 2011 04:22

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

MoPZiG posted:

People who cant afford Stamford Bridge tickets can go to Hell! ...or Fulham

For the purpose of your post hell is West Ham?

# ? Apr 16, 2011 07:32

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

Masonity posted:

Most matchday income is from corporate boxes.

Arsenal make around 2.5 mil a game I think it is. That isn't from £50 seats and pies.

It's 50,000x�50 so actually it's not impossible.

# ? Apr 16, 2011 08:10

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 08:39

TheVertigoOfBliss: Jan 29, 2007

You and your 'maths'.

# ? Apr 16, 2011 10:50

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