Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Luigi Thirty posted:

How many English clubs have gone under this year? Just King's Lynn down in the NPL or were there some more nobody's heard of?

Fisher Athletic were wound up in May, they like King's Lynn (and Pompey supposedly) owed money to the taxman, who's pretty much the only creditor you have to pay there and then else no more football.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2009 21:02

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 02:49

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Stim posted:

Yep. I don't think there has ever been a precedent set when a club was inserted in to a higher league.

AFC Wimbledon which has a similar fan base to the old Wimbledon FC had to start in the non-leagues.

Most clubs which go pop don't actually start at the super lower level, FC United of Manchester and AFC Wimbledon certainly didn't start at the lower tier [tier 21 (Redrow) Lancashire Amateur League: Division 7 in FC United of Manchester's case], AFC Wimbledon started at tier 9 for instance

# ¿ Jan 1, 2010 03:07

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Stim posted:

It's still all within non-league though right? I don't think a club has ever been kept/inserted into the Football League or whatever?

Yeah, all semi-pro stuff, I don't believe anyone has suddenly turned up in division 3/league two

# ¿ Jan 1, 2010 03:40

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Bovine Delight posted:

poo poo, with the recession right now I'm getting bombarded with credit card offers for things with up to 30% APR.

Pfft, that's nothing. Try 2356% APR

# ¿ Jan 3, 2010 20:13

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

I see the Premier League have an interesting way of sorting teams who are owed money out:

BBC posted:

The Premier League is set to use Portsmouth's share of the latest television monies to pay off the club's debts to other top-flight sides.

Chelsea, Tottenham and Watford are all owed money by Pompey and the Premier League will split �7m between them.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2010 15:32

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

It seems the taxman also wants some cash off United, although it is from The Sun:

The Sun posted:

Manchester United are in a tax battle that could end up costing the club - and players - millions.

The Premier League champions confessed they are being investigated by HM Revenue and Customs over "image-rights" contracts handed to players.

The tax office argue the image-right payments are taxable but the club dispute this, so the matter is heading for the courts. United say they will face a bill of at least �5.3million if they lose.

The club's big names, like Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand, would also be left counting the cost - a 50 per cent bill on their image-rights income.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2010 11:13

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Lyric Proof Vest posted:

Realisticly the prime target in the premiership is spurs due to the plans for a stadium, uefa football and relatively high profile of the club.

I think once we've built our stadium we may get a new owener, no buyer is going to want to buy us until we've got the new ground as they'd have significantly lower matchday income and would have to finance the stadium. This is Liverpool's problem too, without the larger ground they are losing out on money compared to Arsenal and Man United

# ¿ Jan 12, 2010 16:13

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Adnar posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Saints_F.C.

Airbus UK are a better example:

Wiki posted:

Originally called Vickers-Armstrong, it has variously been named de Havillands, Hawker Siddeley, British Aerospace, and BAE Systems.

This is the best part:

Wiki posted:

...The Airfield features unusual retracting floodlights as it is adjacent to an operational runway.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2010 19:10

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Portsmouth status: Still hosed

BBC posted:

Cash-strapped Portsmouth are understood to have asked the Premier League for permission to sell players outside the transfer window.

Good job Dindane is only a loan player, you'd have to pay people to take him otherwise

# ¿ Feb 18, 2010 14:57

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

It looks like Notts County are royally hosed:

The Mirror posted:

Notts County's new owner may put the club into administration in the next 48 hours after unearthing financial chaos at Meadow Lane.

Former Lincoln chairman Ray Trew bought the League Two Magpies for a nominal �1 last week as Sven Goran Eriksson left.

Trew stepped in to save the club going bust over a winding up order for an unpaid �300,000 tax bill.

But Trew�s financial experts have been so appalled by the state of the books, administration may now be the only option.

The club�s debts stand at �4million but are rapidly rising as Trew�s audit discovers the extent of Munto Finance�s disastrous short-lived reign.

A criminal investigation is likely to begin soon.

And Magpies� new executive chairman Jim Rodwell said: �It�s not what we know that worries us, it�s what we don�t know.

�The accounts are in such a state it�s difficult for anybody to be able to put a finger on the level of debt.

�Our accountants are going through the process at the moment.�

As well as their existing debts, County are now struggling to cope with a crippling wage bill.

Keeper Kasper Schmeichel, 23, earns �18,000-a-week after arriving from Premier League Man City last summer.

The club are so desperate to sell Schmeichel they have even been touting him to Russian clubs, whose transfer window is still open.

County�s new hierarchy also want to move top scorer Lee Hughes, who earns �4,500-a-week, onto Scottish club Hearts.

While even striker Karl Hawley, 28, earns �3,000-a-week plus an extra �1,000 per appearance and per goal.

Should County, managed by Dave Kevan, go into administration they would be deducted 10 points - effectively ending their promotion hopes.

�18,000 a week in League Two :aaaaa:

# ¿ Feb 18, 2010 16:41

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Cuban Chowder Factory posted:

the silver lining for Pompey supporters would be that they can now completely start from scratch with whatever team they want. even if they pick United or something, can you really ridicule them? they just watched their favourite team cease to exist. you'd have to give them a break...

Nah, they should be forced to support the next nearest team, which I think is Havant and Waterlooville

# ¿ Feb 18, 2010 20:32

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Busy day today:

Chester City have been kicked out of the conference, I doubt they'll be able to avoid winding up now.

Bournemouth have been served a winding up order too, they owe �314,000 to the taxman

# ¿ Feb 26, 2010 16:53

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

duggimon posted:

HMRC don't make the tax laws, they enforce them. It was decided by the government who do make the rules that employees of companies should be preferential creditors and anyone with specifically secured loans gets those repaid out of the money made when those assets they're secured against are sold.

In addition, according to Matt, I didn't know this, there's an additional rules for football clubs that makes other clubs preferential creditors too. HMRC are not exactly bottom of the pile but they are in the bottom pool of creditors along with a number of other organisations I'm sure.

The point of what HMRC are trying to do now is not to recover their money but to make an example of Portsmouth because too many clubs go into administration, decide on an agreement with their creditors that allows them to become debt free but only pay back part of the debt and then trade out of it leaving HMRC out of pocket. If they push instead for the winding up of the club then they hope to discourage others from getting in this situation in the first place or at least to encourage them to pay HMRC in full before administration becomes inevitable.

One of the links here earlier (can't find the post now, but it's http://www.thelawyer.com/paying-by-the-rules/1003055.article ) says that HMRC tried to change the football creditors law in the courts and lost, not sure whether they're going to try again with the pompey case

# ¿ Mar 2, 2010 14:34

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

MoPZiG posted:

I didnt say Southampton surely there is a difference?

Anyway if West Ham got liquidated Id throw my lot in with Grays I suppose seeing as they are owned and run by ex-Hammers.

That might explain why Grays are doing so badly then

# ¿ Mar 8, 2010 17:05

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Bacon of the Sea posted:

"This is my boy Sean Paul, he's just dropped his new hit single. I thought y'all have some love for him, so I be giving him number 69 and he's going to be starting up front with Beckham when we play Grimsby City in the FA cup. Half time he's going to do some mad free styling wit Beyonce. This is a once in a lifetime deal, so we're setting ticket prices at �85. Each seat comes with a free limited edition cup for yo diddy'ade."

Grimsby Town :eng101:

# ¿ Mar 18, 2010 15:09

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

The administrator at Portsmouth have released a creditor report.

Apparently they owe Qatar Airways 20p!

# ¿ Apr 21, 2010 13:40

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

MoPZiG posted:

Won't the new spending rules just entrench the superclubs further? Unless Stoke have an untapped gold mine of overseas fans and sponsoships how can they be expected to grow and maintain success without a significant bit of financial investment and/or risk.

Well they are owned by the chap that owns Bet365, I'm sure they've got plenty of cash to spend based on how well goons bets go

# ¿ May 26, 2010 18:25

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Incitatus posted:

You never see Rushden and Diamonds going through this poo poo.

What? Did you forget the bit where their moneybags owner got bored and left them in the poo poo in League Two?

# ¿ Jul 25, 2010 11:20

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Incitatus posted:

You never see Rushden and Diamonds going through this poo poo.

Here's today's list of companies that are having winding up orders heard:

quote:

Crawley Town Football & Social Club Ltd

Dorchester Town Football Club Limited

Ilkeston Town Football Club Limited

Rushden And Diamonds F.C. Limited

# ¿ Jul 28, 2010 09:50

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Whoops

BBC posted:

Manchester United's owners the Glazer family have been hit with a steep rise in their annual debt payments after the club exceeded a limit on their overall borrowings which form part of their controversial PIK loans agreement.

The Glazers used the high interest form of financing to help raise the funds for their �790m takeover in 2005.

But the loans, originally worth �265m and taken out with three hedge funds - Citadel, Och Ziff and Perry Capital - but reduced to �138m as part of a 2006 refinancing, include strict covenants relating to net debt levels and the club's earnings.

Failure to meet the borrowers' terms by 16 August meant the annual interest rose from 14.25% to 16.25%.

Analysts predict the annual payment will now increase to about �38m, up from �25m last year. Because the interest on the loans is "rolled up" and added to the original sum borrowed the Glazers will owe around �267m on the PIK loans by 2011 - almost a �100m increase in only five years.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2010 14:46

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Truth posted:

So can someone explain to me the claim i've been reading that "QPR's owners are wealthier than city's?" All I've read is that one of the investors is MASSIVELY wealthy but is more of a silent investor.

They're partly owned by the Indian steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal (worth �19bn) and F1 head honcho Bernie Ecclestone (worth �1.5bn). Although they've not been spending their cash quite like City they've gone and bought some of the best players in the Championship

# ¿ Feb 18, 2011 17:31

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

TyChan posted:

Flavio Briatore still has an ownership stake and he's just not chairman anymore, right?

Bernie bought out Flavio's stake last year, I'm not sure if he has any connection to QPR anymore

# ¿ Feb 18, 2011 18:53

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Jose posted:

Shouldn't he now be banned from being in control of clubs or is it because he's not been the actual chairman, just an "adviser" allow him to do it yet again?

To be fair I don't really think that it's his fault this time, the club are skint awaiting mythical money from Japan

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 16:37

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Plymouth look properly hosed now

BBC posted:

Sixteen staff have been made redundant at Plymouth Argyle and the club's shop has been closed in the city centre.

...

Administrator Brendan Guilfoyle, who is talking to potential buyers, said he "regretted" making the redundancies but the club's financial position required them.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2011 15:26

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Masonity posted:

How many professional footballers (remember this is England, even limiting it to pros only is a stretch, in reality were talking top 2 divisions or a top flight international league) are 45 years old?

Anyone alive in 66 would have retired by now.

Don't be so daft

# ¿ Apr 23, 2011 15:21

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Pompey really can't get a break:

BBC Journalist posted:

Portsmouth's parent company Convers Sports Initiatives are the subject of insolvency proceedings.

Former owners Portpin filed a charge at Companies House over parent company making it a secured creditor over CSI.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2011 14:28

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

It looks like Portsmouth have dodged a bullet, the Sicilian businessman linked to buying them has withdrawn. Why did he want to buy Pompey?

Joseph Cala posted:

�Pompey for me was the name itself. It�s something I have always loved. When I thought of Pompey, I thought of Pompeii, one of my favourite cities in the world.

�What really touched me was when I went to the stadium and was watching the fans before the match and they were really behind the club all the way.

�And when Southampton scored the goal first they never called the players losers. It was really fun.�

# ¿ Jan 20, 2012 18:17

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Here we go again:

Sky Sports News posted:

Portsmouth issued with winding-up petition by HM Revenue and Customs over unpaid �1.6m tax bill

Oh Portsmouth :allears:

# ¿ Jan 24, 2012 16:52

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Yet again they seem to want to compare a large cottage pie with some dodgy "meat" and potato pie :argh:

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 12:53

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

With all the fuss about expensive tickets, it seems Manchester City have a Buy One get One Free deal for their Champions League tie vs CSKA.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 09:36

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

PSG made �233m in "miscellaneous" sales last year. Those must be some expensive half-time croissants

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 16:04

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 02:49

JingleBells: Jan 7, 2007; Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!

Hereford United have just been wound up - over �116,000 owed to the taxman

quote:

Hereford United has been wound up by a High Court judge.

The winding-up petition was brought by HM Revenue and Customs, which is thought to be owed �116,000.

Owner Andy Lonsdale had promised to invest �1m in the club, which was expelled from the Football Conference in June after failing to pay creditors.

But he was late to court and the judge was not satisfied there were sufficient funds.

West Mercia Police has said officers had been deployed to the Edgar Street ground following "reports of antisocial behaviour involving 20 to 30 people".

Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.

The club's debt to their football creditors, including members of the current squad, other club staff and clubs from whom the Bulls loaned players during the 2013-14 season, added up to �148,000.

The MP for Hereford and South Herefordshire has called the move "a victory".

Jesse Norman told BBC Hereford and Worcester it was "a bittersweet moment, but the fact of the matter is that after months and months of delay we have now won though".

"I think think it is the best Christmas present we could ever have wanted and this is the beginning of something very significant and good and long-term and new in football for Herefordshire".

It was the tenth time Mr Lonsdale had been ordered to appear at the High Court in London.

His barristers told the judge the money was definitely in the bank but they had no documentation to prove it.

Mr Lonsdale, who claimed he had evidence of sufficient funds, said he was stuck in traffic and could not get to the court in time, which the judge said "was not good enough".

The winding-up order was issued moments after Mr Lonsdale was due at court, at just after 16:30 GMT.

Supporters have gathered at the club's ground at Edgar Street, where one man said: "We will come back. It may take 10 years, but we'll be back."

Herefordshire Council said: "As Hereford United Football Club (1939) Limited is in the process of being wound up and a liquidator will be appointed, this action triggers the council's right as landlord to forfeit the leases.

"The council will now pursue this and seek to gain formal repossession of all three sites leased to the club.

"Once the ground has been secured, the council will consider the appropriate process for procuring a new tenant to ensure the continuation of football."

At least the council want football to stay rather than a housing estate - but it means our Boxing & New Years Day "local" derby will be a 120 mile trip to Forest Green for the foreseeable future :sigh:

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 19:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth