Baseball Sims! (Baseball Mogul and OOTP)

tadashi · tadashi Feb 20, 2006

I feel completely overwhelmed by OOTP (playing 8 so I can check it out before I buy) but at the same time I think I am hopelessly addicted.

How does development work? Do I need to re-scout players to see their development, or will the game just update those? Also, how busy should I be not to screw myself?

tadashi fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Mar 30, 2010

Adbot · # ? Apr 24, 2024 09:46

con · # ? Mar 30, 2010 23:49

Yes, you need to assign scouts to scout your organization constantly.

gyroball · # ? Apr 8, 2010 20:30

OOTP 11 comes out in a week and you can still preorder it for $10 off.

Also it will now have custom batter walk-up music :psyduck:

PeteRoseHaircut · # ? Apr 9, 2010 15:08

Has anyone bought BM '11? If so, how is it? Are there actually any real changes or is it just the same game with an updated roster like it is every year?

tadashi · tadashi Feb 20, 2006

gyroball posted:

OOTP 11 comes out in a week and you can still preorder it for $10 off.

Also it will now have custom batter walk-up music

I rarely ever even watch the games :psyduck:

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 11, 2010 23:43

PeteRoseHaircut posted:

Has anyone bought BM '11? If so, how is it? Are there actually any real changes or is it just the same game with an updated roster like it is every year?

http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?t=201775

Those descriptions actually make the game sound really appealing, I'll probably check out the demo some time this week.

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 12, 2010 01:35

danifestmestny posted:

http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?t=201775

Those descriptions actually make the game sound really appealing, I'll probably check out the demo some time this week.

After playing around with the demo for a bit there's little reason for me to buy 2011 over reinstalling 2009. The new FA dynamic is sort of cool but is too straightforward (make an acceptable offer -> player says another team has offered more -> match new demands or give up). The injury list is an easier way to manage things but not a deal breaker. I didn't notice any difference in trade logic - at the deadline I traded a mediocre starter for 3 75+ rated relievers to bolster my pen and the other team got basically nothing out of that. :confused:

BM is still missing an easier way to manage depth charts, lineups, and the DL on a day to day basis for me to plunk down $30 for a new edition.

I'm looking at OOTP's website and forums right now. From what I'm reading and looking at (screenshots-wise) it looks like something more up my alley. Does it have actual MLB players yet or are roster sets easy enough to come by?

Allyn · # ? Apr 12, 2010 01:47

^^ It has official rosters, ratings and contract data apparently. Not got full minor league rosters, but:

quote:

The game will ship with the best roster set we have ever produced, with thousands of individually rated real players, updated statistics, and realistic contract data! All of last year's top draft picks will be in the game as well. So, want to take Stephen Strasburg and see if you can get the Nationals to the playoffs? Have at it!

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/newsletters/nl0062/

Also, comes out today (as it is now for me) for those who pre-ordered

gyroball · # ? Apr 12, 2010 02:21

For the first time in years I didn't buy Baseball Mogul on release--just didn't see enough that warranted a (more expensive than ever) upgrade.

OOTP on the other hand has two-way players this year. That alone got me to buy it.

Fake baseball cards, OPS+/ERA+, and dynamic leagues (with nickname changes for players!) is also kind of awesome in a dorky, wouldn't-admit-it-anywhere-else kind of way.

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 12, 2010 02:57

drat it the more I'm reading about OOTP the more I'm wanting it. Wish I had done this research a few weeks ago as that $10 pre-order discount is no longer.

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 12, 2010 07:50

I'm busying myself with OOTP8 and liking the setup. How the gently caress do I sign a free agent though? I'm on a player profile, click the action menu, but there is no offer contract option like I expect there should be. What's the deal?

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 12, 2010 23:11

Sorry for the triple post but if any of you got OOTP11 yet (or BM I guess), I'd really appreciate it if you posted a review and your impressions of the game. I'm considering the leap from BM09 to OOTP11 soon but I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing.

Tavarin · # ? Apr 12, 2010 23:22

danifestmestny posted:

Sorry for the triple post but if any of you got OOTP11 yet (or BM I guess), I'd really appreciate it if you posted a review and your impressions of the game. I'm considering the leap from BM09 to OOTP11 soon but I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing.

So far so good. The dynamic league changes are quite interesting, and it's just nice to see OPS+/ERA+.

I'm not a big fan of the '10 roster that came with the game, but anything you don't agree with you can always edit.

gyroball · # ? Apr 13, 2010 00:22

In class all day, OOTP does not run well on netbooks (BBM does by the way) but will post trip review later tonight

gardenald · # ? Apr 13, 2010 00:31

I started a game as the Mets and in two weeks I've already lost 6 players to season-ending injuries.

So, y'know, realism.

All in all it is pretty nice, though.

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 13, 2010 03:36

gyroball posted:

In class all day, OOTP does not run well on netbooks (BBM does by the way) but will post trip review later tonight

Yikes. My laptop is dying and I've been debating picking up a netbook as my next computer. That's a little concerning. Looking forward to trip report.

AlleyViper · # ? Apr 13, 2010 03:45

I just realized that I don't think I'd want gyro representing me in court considering he would likely be playing fake baseball during court proceedings. :v:

gyroball · # ? Apr 13, 2010 03:58

Quick first impression:

Yes it takes time but everyone should download the 2010 add on if only for ACCURATE FACEGEN

ThatsMyBoye · # ? Apr 13, 2010 04:11

loving Joba

joshtothemaxx · # ? Apr 13, 2010 06:40

OOTPX runs like poo poo on my netbook but amazing on my desktop, but that point is moot since I got mlb 2k10.

Inside Outside · # ? Apr 13, 2010 13:34

I wasn't planning on getting OOTP XI but for what it's worth X ran wonderfully on my 2006 Macbook.

gyroball · # ? Apr 13, 2010 16:22

Okay, after a few hours last night I'm pretty impressed.

First off, the interface is slick. I'm not sure if it's better than last year yet, mostly because I'm re-adjusting and figuring out where everything still is. The menus have been somewhat re-organized under snazzy buttons and I think they're better organized this time around, but I won't be sure until I get used to them.

What's improved? I haven't had much of a chance to test out two-way players, though I plan on drafting guys with those skillset (probably to the detriment of the team) to check out how it works. They re-did the fielding engine and I think you can tell fairly quickly, especially if you're playing inning-by-inning. Health/injuries are now denoted by a "status". Players who don't get injured a lot are "normal". Chris Carpenter is "fragile" and he was injured in his first start of the season :smith:

Speaking of injuries, they are still brutal. This is something that started last season and I think its intended to be realistic. If its too much, you can always just change the setting to "low" and deal with fewer injuries. On the "realistic" setting I swear every team you control becomes the Mets. But thats not something thats changed (except for how you "scout" health ratings) and its easy to fix if you don't like it.

The most noticeable and important change is that the trade logic is tougher. In OOTPX you could often move a player just by shopping him around, even if no one would want him in real life. Someone would offer something, and often someone would offer a decent prospect. Not any more. Also, it seems to me that the AI GMs won't make "meaningless" trades for them.

In a really brief time with a historical sim (I just quickly simmed a few years), I feel like OOTP has finally caught up to one of the things BBM did better: alternate histories. Historical stats seem more in line with the baseball of the era. Further, you can quickly compare performance in your game with actual historical performance. Its a small touch, but its really nice.

Finally, fictional leagues are amazing. The best changes have been made here. The "dynamic league" option may have me playing fictional leagues more than historical leagues for once. Rule changes, team owner deaths, team sales, expansion, etc. will all happen dynamically. According to the developer, this feature will also be patched into MLB 2010 leagues, which will also be awesome.

gyroball · # ? Apr 13, 2010 17:44

Double post but I felt like this should be highlighted. I haven't seen this show up yet (have played only a couple weeks in my MLB 2010 game) but this is pretty :monocle:

and is moddable so some amazing poo poo is gonna come out of this:

From a dev on the forum

quote:

* The game contains a database of 'storylines'. These might be simple one-offs (player shows up late for practice and is benched for the day, or player organizes charity event in the community) or can be running narratives (player involved in altercation at local bar, player misses court date, player sentenced to three days in jail, or whatever). The running narratives can have a tree structure, so what kq76 suggests above should be possible: when a story is triggered, there could be different ways for that story to continue.

* Each storyline has triggers and conditions. Some storylines could happen at any time, while others can be triggered by game events or at particular times of the season. Each story can also be conditioned, so if you only want a story to happen to a player with bad personality ratings, for example, that's possible. I don't know precisely which triggers and conditions were coded for the release build. There is a frequency condition as well so that one can control how often each story is likely to appear - most are very rare, of course. Finally, storylines can trigger in-game results, so a storyline might trigger a suspension, an injury, and possibly all kinds of other things - we had been talking about all sorts of possibilities, ranging from Morale or popularity changes to (in presumably very rare cases) ratings changes. I don't know just what results were coded for the release.

So the idea was to make the underlying architecture very flexible, to allow modders to create a huge variety of narratives. The only limitations are the triggers, conditions and game results that are coded, and of course these could be expanded over time as we discover new ones that would be useful. Discussing this feature in beta, we had a huge variety of ideas for what types of stories might be generated: stories about dissatisfied players, clubhouse altercations, players taking on community roles, even players defecting from Cuba. I don't know how many of these are possible at the moment, so I'll let someone who knows more about the implementation as it stands outline a few of these.

Interactive Lets Play OOTP?

AlleyViper · # ? Apr 13, 2010 18:27

gyroball posted:

Interactive Lets Play OOTP?

Don't you dare tease us.

danifestmestny · # ? Apr 13, 2010 18:31

Thanks gyro, that's exactly what I was looking for in terms of a review. I might wait a while but I'll eventually pick up ootp this year. Curious for those of you saying it runs like rear end on your netbooks, what are your computers' specs and what do you think is causing the slowdown?

Inside Outside · # ? Apr 13, 2010 19:25

gyroball posted:

Double post but I felt like this should be highlighted. I haven't seen this show up yet (have played only a couple weeks in my MLB 2010 game) but this is pretty and is moddable so some amazing poo poo is gonna come out of this:

From a dev on the forum

Interactive Lets Play OOTP?

You still owe us half a season plus interest!

Expiration Date · # ? Apr 22, 2010 23:38

before I get too far into OOTP11, has anyone had a successful long-term game with a salary cap and revenue sharing?

I'm not real sure how high/low to set things and whether a fixed media contract will work great NFL style or totally gently caress things up. Is this sort of thing going to cause more movement or more loyalty in the long run with star players?

AlleyViper · # ? Apr 24, 2010 01:14

What's player progression like in OOTP? If a guy is a big time prospect is he going to pan out every time or are there a decent number of flops? Will a player's performance actually impact whether or not he'll improve? Can I take a guy as a project and make him into something better than he otherwise would have become?

gyroball · # ? Apr 24, 2010 02:04

AlleyViper posted:

What's player progression like in OOTP? If a guy is a big time prospect is he going to pan out every time or are there a decent number of flops? Will a player's performance actually impact whether or not he'll improve? Can I take a guy as a project and make him into something better than he otherwise would have become?

It's random as all hell, and I mean that in the best possible way. If you're using scouts and especially if your scout isn't fantastic, you'll see plenty of first round busts. You'll also see some surprises from later rounds, guys who looked like they never had any potential becoming major leaguers.

I'm not sure exactly how much you can affect this. I tend to let the AI manage my minors so I can keep things moving quickly. It's possible by giving a lot of playing time to a marginal player you can make him better.

At the very least, I drafted the following guy as a closer out of college, saw he had three good pitches and decent stamina (as well as a kickass name), and proceeded to make him a starter. Two seasons in the minors destroying A and AA, plus a rash of injuries to my pitching staff and suddenly he's my ace and hasn't given up the spot:

AlleyViper · # ? Apr 24, 2010 02:15

Okay, based on that here are my two main questions:

a.) If I've got the best scout in the entire world and he finds a guy who he thinks will be the next Maddux, what are the chances he actually will be? 90%? 50%?

b.) My most recent BBM season I did an expansion draft Rockies game. Leo Gomez became my starter at third base in my second year and, as a guy who was mid-70s overall, went for 30+ bombs and a ~.900 OPS. Since he's loving Leo Gomez, though, he regressed following the year.

This isn't entirely a bad thing since I like when random fluke years like that happen. But he endeared himself to me because he's loving Leo Gomez and so I would have loved to have some control in trying to help him maintain that rate of performance. Does OOTP allow for that in any way?

AlleyViper fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 24, 2010

Allyn · # ? Apr 24, 2010 02:23

AlleyViper posted:

What's player progression like in OOTP? If a guy is a big time prospect is he going to pan out every time or are there a decent number of flops?

Player quality can fluctuate a LOT, frankly. I haven't gotten too far in to any games in OOTP 11, but back in 09 I remember drafting a second baseman: speedy guy, great defense, would hit for average and had decent gap power. 5 star prospect. Dude never made it out of AA, and was a total scrub.

quote:

Will a player's performance actually impact whether or not he'll improve?

Yep: players will oftentimes come outta nowhere in the minors, suddenly start tearing it up and became ML-quality guys. Other times, guys will do alright in the minors, then hit the majors and just start playing better, and become established stars. That's pretty rare, though, as it is in real life.

quote:

Can I take a guy as a project and make him into something better than he otherwise would have become?

Not really; it's the only thing that particularly frustrates me about OOTP: how a player develops seems totally out of my hands. I guess that's pretty realistic for a GM, though.

Scouting is REALLY tough in OOTP. Scouts will often have wildly differing opinions on just about every player, and it's near-impossible to tell how accurate your scout is. I generally turn it off, I admit :shobon:

I did a 30-year sim of a game, just to see how it handles things, and, well judge for yourself:

(Leaving all the images out as they're pretty big...)

https://wi.somethingawful.com/c9/c9964a6bef83cf3f2affafcb9128ff3116b0268c.png
Pedro Torres, 5th round pick (170th overall). Currently 4th all-time for HRs, just 19 shy of Babe Ruth (and he's not yet retired). He's also 11th all-time for steals. Really close to a fictional Barry Bonds, ultimately. Looks like a bizarre minor league career: sucked, great, good, bad, then promoted to the majors.

https://wi.somethingawful.com/b0/b0592d46464505b46654877678f3c1756058153b.png
Mathew Sanderson, 34th overall pick. Highest career batting average of any fictional player (.332), and still playing. Had a really bad first year in the minors, but developed steadily very well from there on out.

https://wi.somethingawful.com/ad/adac8a11e455e421369bb0d36837cd14df02d5a2.png
Edgar Artega, 1st supplemental round pick (52nd overall). Considering how low relievers usually go in OOTP drafts, it's no wonder this guy ended up being crazy good: #1 on the all-time saves list, and the highest fictional player for career ERA (2.41!). Had a shoddy minor league career until he hit A, and just kept getting better. Not yet retired, but hasn't pitched for three years, and is 42.

https://wi.somethingawful.com/bb/bb455c8bfdbfec4e1184abebdaa73e4a299140a7.png
David Paul, 4th overall pick. Second best VORP (note: only counts VORP from the first season in game, i.e. 2010) of any pitcher (also note: guy in first is a real guy, which isn't quite as useful, I don't think...).

The one thing they have really improved is fielding degradation. Tulo went from being the defensive stud we know he is, played elite defense at SS until 2020 when things started going downhill (age 36... probably a bit late for realism, but hey, Jeter's doing okay there nowadays right? :shobon:

still, an elite guy probably CAN stick there longer than a regular guy), and suddenly had to get moved to 2B and 1B ( :pwn:

) from there on out to be worth playing. By the time he retired he's listed as having no playing talent at SS at all. Which is great to see.

No idea how much you can really gleam from any/all of that... but it does give a bit of insight, anyway. Can't really find first round busts, unfortunately (no historical draft logs, only previous years, as far as I can find :argh:

), but rest assured they do happen. Often. Any other screenshots you want, just shout.

e: hey I was beaten, but who knows maybe mine'll still be of a little help :shobon:

AlleyViper posted:

b.) My most recent BBM season I did an expansion draft Rockies game. Leo Gomez became my starter at third base in my second year and, as a guy who was mid-70s overall, went for 30+ bombs and a ~.900 OPS. Since he's loving Leo Gomez, though, he regressed following the year.

This isn't entirely a bad thing since I like when random fluke years like that happen. But he endeared himself to me because he's loving Leo Gomez and so I would have loved to have some control in trying to help him maintain that rate of performance. Does OOTP allow for that in any way?

Can't answer a), but for b):
It's pretty random, but I would say the vast majority of the time, if a guy has a breakout year he won't be awful the year after. He may not reach the same heights, but he'll still put up decent numbers. Sometimes they'll repeat; sometimes they'll do badly, but then have another great year after that. Things fluctuate a LOT. You can tone all that down, though, if you really want.

Allyn fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 24, 2010

gyroball · # ? Apr 24, 2010 02:32

AlleyViper posted:

Okay, based on that here are my two main questions:

a.) If I've got the best scout in the entire world and he finds a guy who he thinks will be the next Maddux, what are the chances he actually will be? 90%? 50%?

I can't say for sure, but I'd think well lower than 50% if we're talking "the next Maddux".

If this is a prospect who is starting from low ratings and you're using the default injury setting, I might even put the chances of "the next Maddux" ever being even a MLB pitcher at ~ 50%. If its a college guy like Prignano above, and he's already developed but needs polish you can probably at least plan to slot him into the rotation. But greatness is very rare and if you expect it from your draftees you will always be frustrated.

Keep in mind that this is all on the default settings. You can easily tweak development and injuries and scouting accuracy (even the best scout in the entire world will gently caress up occassionaly on the default settings) to make players more predictable.

quote:

b.) My most recent BBM season I did an expansion draft Rockies game. Leo Gomez became my starter at third base in my second year and, as a guy who was mid-70s overall, went for 30+ bombs and a ~.900 OPS. Since he's loving Leo Gomez, though, he regressed following the year.

This isn't entirely a bad thing since I like when random fluke years like that happen. But he endeared himself to me because he's loving Leo Gomez and so I would have loved to have some control in trying to help him maintain that rate of performance. Does OOTP allow for that in any way?

Other than putting the game in commissioner mode to edit his ratings or tweaking progression models, no way that I know of. I will say, though, that breakout seasons are usually a little less fluky in OOTP. If a guy breaks out, he usually doesn't immediately sink back down to terrible right away.

gyroball fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 24, 2010

AlleyViper · # ? Apr 24, 2010 02:39

Well obviously my example is the most extreme of extremes, but I guess what I'm asking is that if you have undoubtedly the best scout in the game how often will he lead you astray?

gyroball · # ? Apr 24, 2010 04:07

AlleyViper posted:

Well obviously my example is the most extreme of extremes, but I guess what I'm asking is that if you have undoubtedly the best scout in the game how often will he lead you astray?

That's just a really tough question, because I'm not sure I've ever had the best scout in the game. I can't give you an exact percentage, or even close to one, but I've had very good scouts and they've definitely led me completely astray. By that, I mean that they tell me a guy will be a superstar then that guy stays healthy and doesn't even become a bench player. Not often, but it happens.

And those very good scouts would still often miss how good a player will be. Like, they're reliable enough that if they say someone is awesome they'll probably be a major leaguer. But beyond that? Even with a really good scout, that's not that reliable. That slugging 1b might not ever reach the awesome power/gap ratings the scout projects and suddenly he's Ryan Garko.

And again, with the realistic frequency of injuries, that's another minefield that can lead to a scout being completely off. Elbow injury? Goodbye future Maddux hello future Silva.

Inside Outside · # ? Apr 24, 2010 04:22

What I'd really like to know about OOTP is how to adjust the window size in OS X. I keep messing around with the window size options in the preferences menu but the only one that does anything is maximized. I just want to play in a window that doesn't clip my dock :argh:

Bob Shabazz · # ? Apr 25, 2010 02:09

AV, you were asking about making stats more unpredictable, yes? Well, there's an option in historical leagues to change their performance from being based on "real life stats" to "rating and OOTP advancement engine" or something. Using that, the best hitter and pitcher of the modern era in my current sim are Bob Hamelin and Juan Guzman, respectively.

Bob Shabazz fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 25, 2010

Fork of Unknown Origins · # ? May 5, 2010 22:45

So from the sounds of things, if I want to set up a totally custom league (say, 8 teams and I want to mess around with the ratings so the stats distribute themselves a certain way) OOTP is the best way to go?

Yeah, I'm wanting to make a kickball simulator.

AlleyViper · # ? May 18, 2010 01:06

I'm finally biting the bullet and diving into OOTP, any recommendation on rosters or photo packs?

Expiration Date · # ? May 21, 2010 05:57

I want to like OOTP.

But they have some sort of weird system in place that makes players literally insane or not follow the ratings assigned in game for their personality traits or SOMETHING I don't know.

I've got a catcher who is nails at throwing guys out and hits for a decent average so I want to keep him around foreverandever. He's not a greedy guy, he's a loyal guy. I offer him an extension MEET DEMAND and he says not enough money.

10 times in a row. Keeps bumping up the number until now he's just rejecting his own demands. loving awesome. He's the kind of guy who should take a discount, instead I have to overbid against myself to keep him around. I meet demand every single time, now his demands are equal to my last offer but still nothing. I have no idea what's going on at this point.

Adbot · # ? Apr 24, 2024 09:46

joshtothemaxx · # ? May 21, 2010 15:12

Expiration Date posted:

I want to like OOTP.

But they have some sort of weird system in place that makes players literally insane or not follow the ratings assigned in game for their personality traits or SOMETHING I don't know.

I've got a catcher who is nails at throwing guys out and hits for a decent average so I want to keep him around foreverandever. He's not a greedy guy, he's a loyal guy. I offer him an extension MEET DEMAND and he says not enough money.

10 times in a row. Keeps bumping up the number until now he's just rejecting his own demands. loving awesome. He's the kind of guy who should take a discount, instead I have to overbid against myself to keep him around. I meet demand every single time, now his demands are equal to my last offer but still nothing. I have no idea what's going on at this point.

If I remember correctly, every time you make an offer that gets rejected you piss the player off more. So after 10 he likely wouldn't accept anything because he thinks your an rear end in a top hat. I learned that the hard way.