Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«13 »
  • Post
  • Reply
d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



I've heard talk in a couple threads about wanting a thread for this, and I've been itching to make it for a while so here it is.

Math Rock



What is Math Rock?
(Shamelessly stolen from Wikipedia): "Math rock is a rhythmically complex, guitar-based style of experimental rock music that emerged in the late 1980s. It is characterized by complex, atypical rhythmic structures (including irregular stopping and starting), angular melodies, and dissonant chords."

Simply put, it's an obscure form of rock that uses abnormal time signatures and rhythms and in most cases some dissonance in the song writing. It is similar to Noise Rock in this way (dissonance), and in fact many early Noise Rock bands like Shellac are said to have influenced the genre. Among the first bands to be called "Math Rock" are Don Caballero and Slint, despite not agreeing with the label.

But d0grent, is Math Rock even a real genre? Sure many people recognize that it's silly to label a band specifically as Math Rock and leave it at that, but genres are really just a way to group similar sounding bands together, and it has become commonplace to call bands with these characteristics "Math Rock", so I don't personally have a problem with this label. However, when talking about these bands it is more appropriate to describe them by other means than to simply call them "Math Rock".

What do some bands in the 'genre' sound like?

Some Math Rock is loving crazy:

Hella
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S-RhlG1bk

Tera Melos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amodU65_Qt4

Some Math Rock is a little more chill:

Don Cabellero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TGgWKngEJg

Giraffes? Giraffes!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZqZCS0rCmE

Mathcore

What is Mathcore?
I like to think of Mathcore as Metal's parallel to Math Rock. Easy enough? I guess it's similar to Metalcore but in my opinion Metalcore can be pretty boring.

Dillinger Escape Plan are pretty much the originators of this genre, though like all genres it's debatable. Other bands that were there for the beginning are Converge and Botch.

Here are some bands and stuff:

Dillinger Escape Plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q5qvft2i-s

Botch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSSx2N2dtYM

Edit: Made OP more relevant/accurate
Edit2: Fixed broken links

d0grent fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2015 around 20:54

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

"What do you fear
most in the world?"

"The possibility that
love is not enough."


Where does Minus The Bear fit into all of this? New Math Rock?

I've always heard of them being described as math rock, and it made sense to me because they're one of the only bands I listen to (outside of Hella and some Don Cab, and maybe one or two others) that uses crazy signatures like that, and basically everything you described Math Rock sounding like in the OP. They aren't nearly as crazy as Hella and Giraffes? Giraffes!, at least in the same way those bands are in the example songs you posted, but MTB knows how to freak out, and when they do so, it comes off sounding incredible.

They definitely use 4/4 in some songs, but they just have a pretty unique style of playing. I know they borrowed heavily from the band Pele, but still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L11xuXCcNGk

Rageaholic Monkey fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2010 around 18:15

jbitt
Dec 22, 2009

sencerly,


I'm face palming so hard to this thread.

cheap sunglasses
Mar 22, 2002

by Ozma


More questions have been raised than answered. Good grief.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Well this thread like all threads was made for discussion so why don't you discuss whatever questions you think have been "raised".

global tetrahedron
Jun 24, 2009



Does anyone know what's up with the new Hella album? They made an announcement about a new 2-piece album, which made me lose my poo poo, because I hated the full band album, but I haven't heard anything since. I really could use a new Hella album, and maybe a tour...

Okposolypse
Jan 1, 2009

by Debbie Metallica


Thanks OP, I'm a huge DEP fan, didn't know that there was a more rock oriented parallel going onto the math genre.

Any key albums you recommend?

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Okposolypse posted:

Thanks OP, I'm a huge DEP fan, didn't know that there was a more rock oriented parallel going onto the math genre.

Any key albums you recommend?

Faraquet's "The View From This Tower" is a favorite of mine, maybe you should start there. If you want something a little heavier you should try Keelhaul's new album as I mentioned above.

Decades
Apr 12, 2007

1969 in the sunshine


Hail Dillinger

On a different note, can anybody suggest an example of a band that's rhythmically interesting in a math rock kinda sense but still capable of writing good catchy songs? There are plenty of bands that make dissonant complex math rock and plenty of bands that write great melodic 4/4 pop songs (which are both good things), but I feel like I've never heard anyone who's right in between the two extremes and I've always thought that would be my hypothetical ideal band. Bands like Radiohead and Animal Collective can use odd time signatures and polyrhythms in cool ways but still don't approach the complexity of a real Don Cab style math rock band and are still pop in the grand scheme of things. Then there's Battles who get their tunes stuck in my head just fine but who don't really use lyrics and still lean math rock in the end. Long story short there's a void in my musical life that can only be filled with quality math pop. Has anyone invented it yet?

maxnmona
Mar 16, 2005

if you start with drums, you have to end with dynamite.

So I clicked your very first sample and it was a song entirely in 4/4 except maybe it got a little loose for a bit, like not any other specific time signature, just they were not really keeping a rhythm for a few moments. I didn't listen to the last minute or so, but just thought it was an odd example for a genre that apparently is defined by uncommon time signatures

maxnmona
Mar 16, 2005

if you start with drums, you have to end with dynamite.

I'm neither a music theory expert nor have I listened to more than a few math rock songs, but how many fans of the genre really know what a time signature is? Like how many just hear a lot of starting and stopping in the guitars of what is basically a 4/4 song and assume that something really complicated is going on time signature wise?

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Decades posted:

Hail Dillinger

On a different note, can anybody suggest an example of a band that's rhythmically interesting in a math rock kinda sense but still capable of writing good catchy songs? There are plenty of bands that make dissonant complex math rock and plenty of bands that write great melodic 4/4 pop songs (which are both good things), but I feel like I've never heard anyone who's right in between the two extremes and I've always thought that would be my hypothetical ideal band. Bands like Radiohead and Animal Collective can use odd time signatures and polyrhythms in cool ways but still don't approach the complexity of a real Don Cab style math rock band and are still pop in the grand scheme of things. Then there's Battles who get their tunes stuck in my head just fine but who don't really use lyrics and still lean math rock in the end. Long story short there's a void in my musical life that can only be filled with quality math pop. Has anyone invented it yet?

Yes my friend. So Many Dynamos is what you are looking for. You'll find anything that has a poppy sound also has more stable/safe rhythms, but I digress:

http://www.myspace.com/somanydynamos - Listen to pretty much every song.

You might also like Minus the Bear as mentioned above - http://www.myspace.com/minusthebear


maxnmona posted:

I'm neither a music theory expert nor have I listened to more than a few math rock songs, but how many fans of the genre really know what a time signature is? Like how many just hear a lot of starting and stopping in the guitars of what is basically a 4/4 song and assume that something really complicated is going on time signature wise?

A song can be in 4/4 and still have obscure rhythm. I included Don Caballero because they are thought of by many to be one of the originators of math rock, even though the band members have expressed their distaste in being called such. Anyway, they have other songs that do deviate more often into other time signatures.

Edit: I want to clarify that using atypical time signatures is not the only defining characteristic of the genre and most bands use 4/4 in their songs along side other signatures, most often 3/4 and 7/8

d0grent fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2010 around 03:49

Yad Rock
Mar 1, 2005

~*u put ur fingers in other ppl's mouths all day, don't u doctor*~

maxnmona posted:

I'm neither a music theory expert nor have I listened to more than a few math rock songs, but how many fans of the genre really know what a time signature is? Like how many just hear a lot of starting and stopping in the guitars of what is basically a 4/4 song and assume that something really complicated is going on time signature wise?

Just because it's in 4/4 doesn't make it "not math rock," it might just be syncopation. On the other hand, Drive Like Jehu had a lot of songs in different time signatures but they're not usually considered math rock.

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

Gah, I came in to recommend So Many Dynamos. Suppose it's a good thing that they've been mentioned already.

so I'll go the more mathcore route and go with one of my tip top favorite newer groups, Rolo Tomassi. Very abrasive, noisy and confusing music but personally I find it gorgeous and brilliant. Sort of like a cross between HORSE the band, Daughters, and also have a lot of straight up noise-rock passages that sometimes remind me of Melt Banana. Their (only? I think) album Hysterics is great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7AXUmYrNq4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yU...feature=related

maxnmona
Mar 16, 2005

if you start with drums, you have to end with dynamite.

Stink Dinner posted:

Just because it's in 4/4 doesn't make it "not math rock," it might just be syncopation. On the other hand, Drive Like Jehu had a lot of songs in different time signatures but they're not usually considered math rock.

I have no real idea what math rock is other than that every time I read about it, including in this thread, unusual and multiple time signatures are brought up a lot. So I thought it was weird that the first example in this thread, and a lot of the other examples I've been linked to, don't really do much with time signatures at all.

LIL RIBT
Nov 17, 2009


If you're looking for math influences with pop sensibilities, Battles is a good choice (thought they would have been mentioned already)(ok upon re-reading the thread they were mentioned but w/e).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpGp-22t0lU Atlas -- Battles
From their most recent release, Mirrored (and only LP, their 2 EPs are good too)

I think Dirty Projectors can fall under this category also, though they're probably not what this thread's looking for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMPF6lpM0XM Stillness is the Move -- Dirty Projectors

Also good but less poppy are By the End of Tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUStkX618E Setting Sail in April -- By the End of Tonight

Poor quality video of them playing a track from Tribute to Tigers. It's a good album, but their best track (Delirious, Where Have You Been?) is on the less listenable In a Letter to the Sandbox.

LIL RIBT fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2010 around 05:46

Yad Rock
Mar 1, 2005

~*u put ur fingers in other ppl's mouths all day, don't u doctor*~

maxnmona posted:

I have no real idea what math rock is other than that every time I read about it, including in this thread, unusual and multiple time signatures are brought up a lot. So I thought it was weird that the first example in this thread, and a lot of the other examples I've been linked to, don't really do much with time signatures at all.

The OP does not do a very good job at introducing people to the genre!

-Atom-
Sep 13, 2003

Contrarian Dick

Bad At Everything


LIL RIBT posted:

Also good but less poppy are By the End of Tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUStkX618E Setting Sail in April -- By the End of Tonight

These guys did a sweet split with Tera Melos.


Also, if you're unaware of Tera Melos then what the gently caress are you doing in this thread? I've seen them live more times then I can count, and they absolutely rip it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6jvyAbkwy0

The guitarist from Tera Melos and Zach Hill from Hella have a side project called Bygones. That's good too.

vikingchildren
Dec 8, 2007

jesusfuckingcabdriver


im a huge dillinger fan, i love don cab, battles, mtb, converge, botch, etc.

the dynamos are some of the coolest guys on the planet

and cinemechanica is one of the best math rock bands on the planet, if not the best.
they also have a side project called bit brigade where they play the soundtrack for contra, ninja gaiden, and mega man 2 while someone plays the game projecting as the stage backdrop.

http://www.myspace.com/cinemechanica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3mhmqg1K4s (bit brigade)

Kilometers Davis
Jul 9, 2007

They begin again


Thread needs more Maps and Atlases! Definitely my favorite band in the "genre" next to Converge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao5bDX_uKqE

Their latest EP is totally different but incredible at the same time.

the great deceiver
Sep 23, 2003

why the feds worried bout me clockin on this corner/
when there's politicians out here gettin popped in arizona

global tetrahedron posted:

Does anyone know what's up with the new Hella album? They made an announcement about a new 2-piece album, which made me lose my poo poo, because I hated the full band album, but I haven't heard anything since. I really could use a new Hella album, and maybe a tour...

Really loving excited for this. I actually got to talk to Spencer at a bar in Nevada City (NAMEDROP NAMEDROP) and I asked him what was up with the album. Supposedly it will definitely be out in 2010 and it is just the two of them. I personally loved There's No 666 but I know a lot of people didn't dig the full band and to be honest there's really no reason to do it again. Can't wait to hear the album and I am extremely excited to see just Spencer and Zach tour as Hella; haven't seen just the two of them play since like 03 or 04.

Also seconding Tera Melos, they are such a talented group of musicians that it blows my mind. I'm really liking their new drummer as well; he's got serious chops. Bygones are pretty cool too, I just wish they'd play a show some time.

Another group to check out is Ahleuchatistas, another great "mathrock" group (the phrase mathrock is so horrible). I like the album What You Will a lot but I think they have a new album that just came out.

Ho Chi Minh is Gonna Win!- Ahleuchatistas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSeMcVRR6FY

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



maxnmona posted:

I have no real idea what math rock is other than that every time I read about it, including in this thread, unusual and multiple time signatures are brought up a lot. So I thought it was weird that the first example in this thread, and a lot of the other examples I've been linked to, don't really do much with time signatures at all.

I just double checked to make sure I wasn't retarded, and the first song definitely uses 4/4, 5/4, and 3/4 so maybe you didn't even listen halfway through the song?

Stink Dinner posted:

The OP does not do a very good job at introducing people to the genre!

Yeah I suppose my song choices weren't the best, but to be honest the ensuing discussion is more valuable than the introduction in most threads in NMD. I'm not gonna pretend like I know more about the genre than a lot of the people that will be attracted to this thread, but it didn't seem like anyone else was willing to make the OP.

Edit: in short I think I went with accesibility over accuracy :\

the great deceiver posted:

(the phrase mathrock is so horrible).

Yeah I had to cringe just a bit every time I typed it out in the op and capitalized it, but there's no other way

d0grent fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2010 around 08:50

Rujo King
Jun 28, 2007

I say old chap have you any of the good sort of catnip if you know what I mean... harrumphaarmaammhhhmm


Math rock exists solely to give hipsters like myself a reason to say "One two three, One two three four, One two three four five six, One two three four five," while artfully stabbing the air in front of us and possibly clapping out the beat on our thighs.

d0grent posted:

Well this thread like all threads was made for discussion so why don't you discuss whatever questions you think have been "raised".

Q: "The gently caress?"
A: "Exactly."

the great deceiver
Sep 23, 2003

why the feds worried bout me clockin on this corner/
when there's politicians out here gettin popped in arizona

d0grent posted:

Yeah I had to cringe just a bit every time I typed it out in the op and capitalized it, but there's no other way

No I totally understand you kinda have to use it out of necessity. I'm not sure why I dislike the label so much; probably because "mathrock" sounds so dry and formulaic when a lot of these bands are actually extremely creative and innovative artists. I generally label them as prog when I have to label them but that doesn't really do the style of music justice either. I can't think of anything better to use than mathrock although I did hear one person try to get the name "wizardcore" to stick. Still pretty retarded but I like it better than mathrock.

Rujo King posted:

Math rock exists solely to give hipsters like myself a reason to say "One two three, One two three four, One two three four five six, One two three four five," while artfully stabbing the air in front of us and possibly clapping out the beat on our thighs.

Hahahaha yeah this pretty much sums it up.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



the great deceiver posted:

No I totally understand you kinda have to use it out of necessity. I'm not sure why I dislike the label so much; probably because "mathrock" sounds so dry and formulaic when a lot of these bands are actually extremely creative and innovative artists. I generally label them as prog when I have to label them but that doesn't really do the style of music justice either. I can't think of anything better to use than mathrock although I did hear one person try to get the name "wizardcore" to stick. Still pretty retarded but I like it better than mathrock.

I think the first time I heard of "mathcore" I imagined 4 nerds sitting at desks literally calculating out the placement of notes for their songs on a calculator. Maybe that's why it's annoying to use.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Rujo King posted:

Math rock exists solely to give hipsters like myself a reason to say "One two three, One two three four, One two three four five six, One two three four five," while artfully stabbing the air in front of us and possibly clapping out the beat on our thighs.

I do unironically do this while listening to music sometimes, but to be fair I'm a drummer.

ahotlinetogod
Nov 7, 2009


I don't think they're very widely considered math, but The Dismemberment Plan are my second favourite band ever and they have more non-4/4 songs than not. They also have one incredible singer/lyricist and Emergency & I in particular is pop genius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5i...feature=related (Gyroscope, 15/16 I think?)

Hitlazers
Apr 20, 2006


d0grent posted:

I do unironically do this while listening to music sometimes, but to be fair I'm a drummer.

Not a drummer, I do this, enjoy it immensely, that guy can eat a dick. Also, Toe are amazing, even though the concept is essentially "we'll play this nice little song while the drummer shows off". They're probably leaning a bit more to post-rock though. Basically if you like 65daysofstatic you'll probably like Toe.

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

Don't you know there ain't no devil, its just God when he's drunk.


IntoTheNihil posted:

Thread needs more Maps and Atlases! Definitely my favorite band in the "genre" next to Converge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao5bDX_uKqE

Their latest EP is totally different but incredible at the same time.

Totally 2nd this. Saw them play in a basement in Allentown, and they are absolutely ridiculous.

Also, my opinion, but Math Rock = Prog Rock. Just mincing words.

maxnmona
Mar 16, 2005

if you start with drums, you have to end with dynamite.

d0grent posted:

I just double checked to make sure I wasn't retarded, and the first song definitely uses 4/4, 5/4, and 3/4 so maybe you didn't even listen halfway through the song?

Where?

Math Rocker
Sep 21, 2003

by Ozma


Hey, a math rock thread.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



maxnmona posted:

Where?

They switch into 5/4 at 2:03, and into 3/4 at 2:43. When they switch into 3/4 they are even alternating between parts at 4/4 every 4 measures or so.

Duckman2008 posted:

Also, my opinion, but Math Rock = Prog Rock. Just mincing words.

They're definitely very closely related, but I think prog rock tends to have mostly really long drawn out songs and "math rock" tends to be more energetic. Prog Rock is an actual genre of rock though so you have a point.

d0grent fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2010 around 19:34

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



hey I changed the op a bit are people happy now?

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



Seeing as how when someone doesn't know how to describe an indie or metal band these days they'll say math rock/mathcore, this thread is going to see a massive variety in styles and cross-genre escapades.

That being said, here is chon.

Here is Ion Dissonance with their old vocalist, who is waaaaay better. (Warning, profusely metal).

And this speaks for itself. No vocals on their new stuff, so you don't have to worry about screaming if you don't like it.

And Upsilon Acrux are cool too.

P.S. Just about every band mentioned so far is a certain shade of the awesome scale.

Pogobubba
Jan 3, 2010


I was only recently introduced to mathcore by a friend, and I have really taken a liking to it. This thread looks to be an awesome source of new music.

The Number Twelve Looks Like You was a mathcore band in the same vein as Dillinger Escape Plan. They recently broke up, unfortunately.

-Atom-
Sep 13, 2003

Contrarian Dick

Bad At Everything


Pogobubba posted:

I was only recently introduced to mathcore by a friend, and I have really taken a liking to it. This thread looks to be an awesome source of new music.

The Number Twelve Looks Like You was a mathcore band in the same vein as Dillinger Escape Plan. They recently broke up, unfortunately.

This is too bad. I saw these guys for the first time in December of 2008 opening for the Fall of Troy and the were really entertaining. The duel vocalists were ripping it and just all around pleasing the crowd.

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

Pogobubba posted:

I was only recently introduced to mathcore by a friend, and I have really taken a liking to it. This thread looks to be an awesome source of new music.

The Number Twelve Looks Like You was a mathcore band in the same vein as Dillinger Escape Plan. They recently broke up, unfortunately.

I'm not a super huge fan of the band but Jon Karel is one of the most amazing drummers ever.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Business Raptor posted:

That being said, here is chon.

I gotta second this band because they are all utterly phenomenal at their instruments, including the drummer who is 13 and still puts a lot of older drummers to shame (although he recently quit the band to be a kid).

The guitarists can sweep pick like no ones fuckin' business. Seriously check these guys out.

d0grent fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2010 around 08:36

Pogobubba
Jan 3, 2010


Although it isn't exactly mathcore, Spastic Ink is very complex and has everything I would want from a mathcore band. Their album Ink Complete is instrumental and this is great for me as I find mathcore vocals screamo-ish and irritating.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

Don't you know there ain't no devil, its just God when he's drunk.


d0grent posted:




They're definitely very closely related, but I think prog rock tends to have mostly really long drawn out songs and "math rock" tends to be more energetic. Prog Rock is an actual genre of rock though so you have a point.

Ha that made me laugh.


Do you guys consider Mute Math "math rock." I do mostly because they have Math in their name. Regardless of genre the band is loving awesome live.


Seriously, King Crimson should be discussed more in this thread. I don't even have much of their stuff and I'm saying that

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«13 »