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Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

listerine and mr. green

Hitlazers posted:

Not a drummer, I do this, enjoy it immensely, that guy can eat a dick. Also, Toe are amazing, even though the concept is essentially "we'll play this nice little song while the drummer shows off". They're probably leaning a bit more to post-rock though. Basically if you like 65daysofstatic you'll probably like Toe.

Are there any other bands that focus on the drums as the main instrument? Most music is all about the guitar or vocals, and drums are around to keep the beat. I love drums though, and would like to find more music with them brought to the front of the band.

Toe is awesome though, everyone should check them out.

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Decades
Apr 12, 2007

1969 in the sunshine


d0grent posted:

Yes my friend. So Many Dynamos is what you are looking for. You'll find anything that has a poppy sound also has more stable/safe rhythms, but I digress:

http://www.myspace.com/somanydynamos - Listen to pretty much every song.

You might also like Minus the Bear as mentioned above - http://www.myspace.com/minusthebear

Heard Minus the Bear before, yeah. Both them and dynamos sound not bad at all but seem lighter on the "math" than what I had in mind. You're right about safe/stable rhythms. Minus the Bear switches time signatures and uses stuff besides 4/4, and that's all well and good, but really I just consider that a basic part of being in a good band almost regardless of genre. Basically what I have in mind is a band with the rhythmic complexity of Dillinger Escape Plan and the melody of, say, Grizzly Bear that embraces both extremes simultaneously without moderating either. It's kind of a ridiculous idea. May attempt to make it happen on my own some day though.

Regarding the talk of time signatures, it's a bit of an oversimplification to equate odd signatures and time signature changes with math rock - as bands can use some of those tools without really qualifying as math rock while math rock bands can play in 4/4 just fine. I can't really explain why that is and what it means though. Kind of like how I know prog and math rock when I see them but couldn't actually describe the difference. Part of the problem certainly is that all of these terms are vague. I guess it's also a matter of what a given band does best and what techniques they emphasize.

I'm a drummer with just some basic theory background, so somebody please correct me if any of the following is dumb, but one thing that really needs to be mentioned is polyrhythms, which is something I'd equate with math rock probably even more than wacky signatures and time changes in themselves. My rough definition of a polyrhythm for all intents and purposes is two or more rhythms in different time signatures progressing simultaneously. The most basic example I suppose would be playing three evenly spaced beats on one hand and two on the other such that the first of each land together (try it at home!), but it gets much more interesting once you ditch the even spacing part and throw a five or seven in there. The wiki's got a ton of examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrythm

This certainly also exists outside of traditional math rock though. If you've heard Radiohead's latest that's got some fun 4/4 (drums) against 5/4 (guitar). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ztWvuyXeU#t=1m40s

On another note, have you folks heard the Them Crooked Vultures album? There's a lot of this stuff blended in with the standard hard/stoner rock/pop throughout and I think it's surprisingly well done.

Harminoff posted:

Are there any other bands that focus on the drums as the main instrument? Most music is all about the guitar or vocals, and drums are around to keep the beat. I love drums though, and would like to find more music with them brought to the front of the band.

Don Caballero above all, I'd say. Damon Che is incredible and usually the obvious main attraction.

Decades fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2010 around 22:40

setfiretothecouch
Oct 21, 2008


other men ( http://www.myspace.com/othermenmusic ) might be just what you are looking for. most projects rob crow is involved with how some elements of math rock, or at least unconventional and shifting rhythms. thingy, heavy vegetable, and pinback are all great bands. pinback drops a lot of the rhythmic trickery but they make really great music regardless.

i can't find a myspace or youtube, but the band "v for vendetta" was a really great female math rock duo. crazy stuff for just two people to pull off.

volta do mar didn't do too much with time signatures but the rhythm shifts and instrumental mastery are great. http://www.myspace.com/voltadomar check out sports conquest.

this is getting a bit closer to prog rock, but make a rising do a math rock sort of thing with an orchestral bend. http://www.myspace.com/makearising
normal love as well. http://www.myspace.com/normallove normal love are amazing live. they sit in front of sheet music and ROCK OUT.

i'll post more later. i love weird math rock.

fiveohnoes
Feb 3, 2009


Oh my god you all need to discover Lye By Mistake

They've got two LPs out, Arrangements for Fulminating Vective and Fea Jur. Arrangements features a (rather loving excellent IMO) vocalist whereas on Fea Jur they've gone completely instrumental. Some of the finest "math *" I've encountered on my journey through the genre.

https://www.myspace.com/lyebymistake

Hitlazers
Apr 20, 2006


Harminoff posted:

Are there any other bands that focus on the drums as the main instrument?

I can't help you, but I know how you feel. I've been itching to ask this question and I reckon a math rock thread should be the perfect place to get an answer.

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



fiveohnoes posted:

Oh my god you all need to discover Lye By Mistake

I can't believe I forgot to mention these guys. They have more music than that out by the way, and it's all good and math.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Decades posted:

Heard Minus the Bear before, yeah. Both them and dynamos sound not bad at all but seem lighter on the "math" than what I had in mind. You're right about safe/stable rhythms. Minus the Bear switches time signatures and uses stuff besides 4/4, and that's all well and good, but really I just consider that a basic part of being in a good band almost regardless of genre. Basically what I have in mind is a band with the rhythmic complexity of Dillinger Escape Plan and the melody of, say, Grizzly Bear that embraces both extremes simultaneously without moderating either. It's kind of a ridiculous idea. May attempt to make it happen on my own some day though.

Hmm, the closest thing I can think of to what you are describing is Protest The Hero. Have you heard of them? Their latest album has a lot of technical metal influence but their first album leans closer to the punk side of things and definitely more poppy.

Try this song (their sense of rhythm is great) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Ct...feature=related

Decades posted:

Regarding the talk of time signatures, it's a bit of an oversimplification to equate odd signatures and time signature changes with math rock - as bands can use some of those tools without really qualifying as math rock while math rock bands can play in 4/4 just fine. I can't really explain why that is and what it means though. Kind of like how I know prog and math rock when I see them but couldn't actually describe the difference. Part of the problem certainly is that all of these terms are vague. I guess it's also a matter of what a given band does best and what techniques they emphasize.

The term "math x" should be used lightly regardless especially considering the way things started off in this thread. There's a certain sound that bands have that makes people jump to using the term but I think it's a good basis to use for people to find new music.

d0grent fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2010 around 06:38

invision
Mar 2, 2009

I DIDN'T GET ENOUGH RAPE LAST TIME, MAY I HAVE SOME MORE?



ion dissonance and the number 12 are mathcore? They're toeing the grindcore line pretty well then...

fastpork
Jul 16, 2008


65daysofstatic are one of my favs, they are more post-rock, but they still cram in some awesome time signatures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WneDU-K3Sww

Also much like them, but limited to two people, El Ten Eleven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdhvatQLBEo

And while taking about Slint, the 90's Louisville scene was unstoppable. Especially June Of 44 and Shipping News, both formed by Jeff Mueller. June tends to be more pissed off and Shipping News tends to be calmer, but if you adore Spiderland you will love both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsToqOEZnxQ

Funbox
Jun 30, 2007
Hardcore SA Lurker

ahotlinetogod posted:

I don't think they're very widely considered math, but The Dismemberment Plan are my second favourite band ever and they have more non-4/4 songs than not. They also have one incredible singer/lyricist and Emergency & I in particular is pop genius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5i...feature=related (Gyroscope, 15/16 I think?)

I'm a huge 65dos fan so I obviously I followed your recommendation.

This is fantastic. Thank you.

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



invision posted:

ion dissonance and the number 12 are mathcore? They're toeing the grindcore line pretty well then...

This is the problem with mathcore/math rock - it seems to fit into every sort of sub-genre. I find that bands can't just be just math because nobody can agree on what math music really is.

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


fuck money
smoke bitches
get trees


Decades posted:

Heard Minus the Bear before, yeah. Both them and dynamos sound not bad at all but seem lighter on the "math" than what I had in mind. You're right about safe/stable rhythms. Minus the Bear switches time signatures and uses stuff besides 4/4, and that's all well and good, but really I just consider that a basic part of being in a good band almost regardless of genre. Basically what I have in mind is a band with the rhythmic complexity of Dillinger Escape Plan and the melody of, say, Grizzly Bear that embraces both extremes simultaneously without moderating either. It's kind of a ridiculous idea. May attempt to make it happen on my own some day though.

Did you listen to Faraquet? I really think you're basically describing The View From This Tower.

Well, other than the Grizzly Bear thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xytgT8_A0qQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaM5-DuTSJA

Hooplah fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2010 around 19:59

cheap sunglasses
Mar 22, 2002

by Ozma


Business Raptor posted:

I find that bands can't just be just math because nobody can agree on what math music really is.

I'm more of an organic chemistry music guy myself but I totally agree with this statement.

ahotlinetogod
Nov 7, 2009


Funbox posted:

I'm a huge 65dos fan so I obviously I followed your recommendation.

This is fantastic. Thank you.

You're welcome! I'm surprised the Plan didn't make it big, especially seeing as they used to tour with Death Cab for Cutie of all bands. Anyway, Emergency & I is generally regarded as their masterpiece, but if you want to explore the rest, their albums chronologically go from DC hardcore to odd pop. Then Travis Morrison did a couple of solo albums which I also enjoy despite being panned by a lot of his fans (due to a 0.0 from pitchfork, I guess).

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

Don't you know there ain't no devil, its just God when he's drunk.


Harminoff posted:

Are there any other bands that focus on the drums as the main instrument? Most music is all about the guitar or vocals, and drums are around to keep the beat. I love drums though, and would like to find more music with them brought to the front of the band.

Toe is awesome though, everyone should check them out.

Just listen to the Album Rich vs Roach. 20x in a row. It will melt your face.

holdsteady
Nov 4, 2009


Math Rock is not my favorite term though I had to come in here to post these guys.

They're called OSO and if I had to give them a genre it would be gypsy jazz rock punk classical. Anyway they are all about the DIY and you should go listen to them right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTdRgRRBTE

Spiral
Dec 20, 2003



Im just going to whore the poo poo out of my own band in this thread. gently caress it.

http://www.thearmed.com

We're kinda mathy? and we all love The Dillinger Escape Plan / Converge / Botch / Every Time I Die and it shows I guess.

The entire abum is free from the website, also heres some videos:

http://vimeows.com/5170931 <-- spazzy live poo poo
http://vimeows.com/6756360 < -- album teaser
http://vimeows.com/7270453 <-- bass player in reverse

Also everyone should listen to "Medications" especially the song Safe and Sorry

Yad Rock
Mar 1, 2005

~*u put ur fingers in other ppl's mouths all day, don't u doctor*~

ahotlinetogod posted:

You're welcome! I'm surprised the Plan didn't make it big, especially seeing as they used to tour with Death Cab for Cutie of all bands. Anyway, Emergency & I is generally regarded as their masterpiece, but if you want to explore the rest, their albums chronologically go from DC hardcore to odd pop. Then Travis Morrison did a couple of solo albums which I also enjoy despite being panned by a lot of his fans (due to a 0.0 from pitchfork, I guess).

The Dismemberment Plan was big, as far as indie bands go. But they're not math rock, they're just a band you would like if you like math rock.

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



Spiral posted:

Im just going to whore the poo poo out of my own band in this thread. gently caress it.

http://www.thearmed.com

This is actually pretty good, what is it you do? Looking for a guitarist in London, Ontario?...*cough*

ManifoldCuriosity
Sep 10, 2009


fastpork posted:

And while taking about Slint, the 90's Louisville scene was unstoppable. Especially June Of 44 and Shipping News, both formed by Jeff Mueller. June tends to be more pissed off and Shipping News tends to be calmer, but if you adore Spiderland you will love both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsToqOEZnxQ

Props for being one of the few in the thread to mention some real math rock, but I would think that you would have included 90 Day Men.

Although they were from St. Louis (not Louisville), they grew up in basically the same way as Slint and June of 44 as basically playing post-hardcore but with that mathy feel that eventually evolved into the Louisville math rock sound.

Aside from Slint's Spiderland, 90 Day Men's To Everybody is probably the most important (and best) album from that scene.

Traxis
Jul 2, 2006



Here is a pretty decent primer on "math rock" IMO and their explanation of the genre is pretty good I think:

quote:

Take the intricacy and complexity of classic weirdo hard rock bands like Rush and Voivod, then add some of punk's hyperspasmodic schizophrenia, and you'll have a legitimate math rock contender. Math rock bands take pleasure in being erratic and unpredictable, often experimenting with peculiar tempos and jazz-derived rhythms while keeping the rock hard and aggressive all the while.

Cinemechanica is one of my favorites, featuring dueling guitars and on their Rivals EP, dueling drummers.

Sweep the Leg Johnny is another good one, math rock with a saxophone. Couldn't find any decent samples but Sto Cazzo! and Going Down Swingin' are good albums to start with.

Ignitus
Apr 28, 2003



Decades posted:

Hail Dillinger

On a different note, can anybody suggest an example of a band that's rhythmically interesting in a math rock kinda sense but still capable of writing good catchy songs?

It's in the OP dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhMfz4HrcEA

Protest the Hero has the best songwriting of any technical band I've ever heard. They've got a ton of skill, ridiculous amounts of energy, and they even throw in catchy singy-songy parts. Although their song structures are unusual they tie it all together beautifully and each guy in the band is given their moments to shine. No instrument is ignored or shoved into the background.

NarkyBark
Dec 7, 2003

one funky chicken

I used to be in a math band called Ouch, it really is strange playing structured yet really random sortof stuff... https://www.myspace.com/ouchmetal

Warning! Metal-ish content follows!
We found it's (understandably) difficult to get people to get into your tunes- when you play live, if someone doesn't know your stuff they'll have no idea what's going on. We decided to "end" that band and start over (with the same members), and become more straightforward metal. Still plenty of polyrhythms though! https://www.myspace.com/boarcorpse is the new one. Reaction has been better, although we have had random ouch requests from time to time.

While I'm on the subject, speaking of polyrhythms, how can Meshuggah have not been mentioned? Pretty much everything they do consists of polyrhythms.

(this one's a compliation of riffs)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZGPXaraeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMng-SNtkk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3an8jdsVM3s

NarkyBark fucked around with this message at Jan 12, 2010 around 06:44

Spiral
Dec 20, 2003



Business Raptor posted:

This is actually pretty good, what is it you do? Looking for a guitarist in London, Ontario?...*cough*
I play guitar, we have 2 guitars already but I think Andrew WK and COKEDICKMOTORCYCLEAWESOME have like 9 total so maybe we should have another!!

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Ignitus posted:

It's in the OP dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhMfz4HrcEA

Protest the Hero has the best songwriting of any technical band I've ever heard. They've got a ton of skill, ridiculous amounts of energy, and they even throw in catchy singy-songy parts. Although their song structures are unusual they tie it all together beautifully and each guy in the band is given their moments to shine. No instrument is ignored or shoved into the background.

I'm not going to stop recommending this band until everyone in the thread listens to them.

NarkyBark posted:

I used to be in a math band called Ouch, it really is strange playing structured yet really random sortof stuff... https://www.myspace.com/ouchmetal

I only listened to the first song on that myspace but it kicked rear end, and you guys are in Boston? I'm gonna have to come to a show of yours I'm just outside of Worcester

quote:

While I'm on the subject, speaking of polyrhythms, how can Meshuggah have not been mentioned? Pretty much everything they do consists of polyrhythms.

Yeah Meshuggah are definitely a huge influence on the Mathcore scene

TheForgotton
Jun 10, 2001

I'm making a career of evil.

As a prog-head, I'm failing to see the distinction that makes something "math". Is it just because "progressive" is seen as a dirty word in today's music industry?

Not to knock the mathcore wave too hard, but bands like Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant were doing astounding things with polyrhythms and intricate counterpoint almost 40 years ago. For example, a live video of Gentle Giant playing in '74.

Ignitus posted:

Protest the Hero has the best songwriting of any technical band I've ever heard...
Very cool. I'll have to look into them.

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



d0grent posted:

I'm not going to stop recommending this band until everyone in the thread listens to them.

There's a reason I listen to the music I do, and this band is it. Kezia is arguably the best album ever written.

NarkyBark
Dec 7, 2003

one funky chicken

d0grent posted:

I only listened to the first song on that myspace but it kicked rear end, and you guys are in Boston? I'm gonna have to come to a show of yours I'm just outside of Worcester

We're playing in Worcester on Thurs the 21st at Ralphs, come by!

Instantoxen
Apr 22, 2006


TheForgotton posted:

As a prog-head, I'm failing to see the distinction that makes something "math". Is it just because "progressive" is seen as a dirty word in today's music industry?

Luckily, genre names mean essentially nothing and are just something someone comes up with in order to attempt to categorize what they're listening to. You can call all these bands prog and it doesn't matter at all except to the idiots who think that genres are hard and fast rules. Hell, even Don Cab, one of the supposed progenitors of mathrock dislikes the term, so why should it matter what anyone else chooses to identify them as?

Everyone seems to think that musical innovation is deserving of a new label but at this point most 'genres' simply consist of whatever band chose to innovate away from its influences a bit and all the other bands who copied them. Death metal is a great example, since the entire genre consists of metal bands who copy the band Death.

In conclusion, call anything whatever you want and gently caress anyone who tries to tell you you can't.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



NarkyBark posted:

We're playing in Worcester on Thurs the 21st at Ralphs, come by!

Aw poo poo I'm seeing my cousins band on that friday and I can't take two days off work. I'm sure you'll be around again soon though right?

codyclarke
Jan 10, 2006

IDIOT SOUP

Surprised The loving Champs haven't been mentioned yet. These guys are so much fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t52zgOWNUo

Dyna Soar
Nov 30, 2006


Polvo are my favourite of the so called math rock bands. They have a new one out, and while it's good their 90s stuff is loving awesome, especially Cor-Crane Secret and Exploded Drawing. Whoever it was who wanted math rock with actually good songs instead of just noodling around check out Polvo. Their sound is like a sweet mix of Sonic Youth-style noise rock and 90s indie rock with a distinct middle eastern or indian vibe. Real good.

Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at Jan 15, 2010 around 10:00

FatLittleFatDog
May 6, 2007
Rotund and Small

Dyna Soar posted:

Polvo are my favourite of the so called math rock bands. They have a new one out, and while it's good their 90s stuff is loving awesome, especially Cor-Crane Secret and Exploded Drawing. Whoever it was who wanted math rock with actually good songs instead of just noodling around check out Polvo. Their sound is like a sweet mix of Sonic Youth-style noise rock and 90s indie rock with a distinct middle eastern or indian vibe. Real good.

Very true. Polvo is by far the most interesting and weirdly enjoyable 'math rock' type bands I've been exposed to.

Also, Rodan is very quite awesome.
Some other bands I like that've already been mentioned include Don Cabellero, Drive Like Jehu, Slint, June of '44.

Sups
Aug 8, 2007

Jimmy Eat World Hunger

Came here to recommend Rooftops and Pretend.

I guess its like a math/post-rock fusion with horns and strings on occasion. Sparse vocals too. I really like it - probably my #5 album of the year.

http://www.myspace.com/rftps

I recommend Leafy Stair. There are around 4 other songs on their album that are amazing (in addition to a few on the myspace). Also, the ending track is 10 minutes of awesome.

Also Pretend:

http://www.myspace.com/pretendrock

Similar genre, no horns here. Alive in the Tone is my favorite song for sure. Luminous is rad too.


EDIT:

Truckers of Husk is cool too. They use a cello and a more simple math style. Check out Salad Ballad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arm6hE4J82k


Also, the glitchy vocal samples on the new song on their myspace is neat:
http://www.myspace.com/truckersofhusk

Sups fucked around with this message at Jan 18, 2010 around 16:35

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008



Instantoxen posted:

Everyone seems to think that musical innovation is deserving of a new label but at this point most 'genres' simply consist of whatever band chose to innovate away from its influences a bit and all the other bands who copied them. Death metal is a great example, since the entire genre consists of metal bands who copy the band Death.

This is sarcasm, right? Death metal predates the band Death by a few years and they didn't come up with the genre term either. Also, Death sucks.

Behold...The Arctopus fits the "math metal" label well. They're kind of gimmicky and don't have much depth but they can be fun to listen to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE04...feature=related

Primetime
Jul 3, 2009


As mentioned before, one of the biggest problems with the 'math' label is it encompasses way too many bands, so you can rarely find what you want. I personally love 65daysofstatic, Minus the Bear, Maps and Atlases, and now thanks to this thread, This Town Needs Guns.

I've listened to most of what has been suggested in this thread, but it seems like a majority of the focus has switched to mathcore, and frankly I'm not a fan of metal or hard rock. Are there any other math rock bands at a Minus the Bear or Maps and Atlases level that I may have missed?

Sophian
Jun 16, 2007
.
.
.
.
I'm nothing.


TheForgotton posted:

As a prog-head, I'm failing to see the distinction that makes something "math". Is it just because "progressive" is seen as a dirty word in today's music industry?

Not to knock the mathcore wave too hard, but bands like Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant were doing astounding things with polyrhythms and intricate counterpoint almost 40 years ago. For example, a live video of Gentle Giant playing in '74.

The "math" label isn't like some scientific term used to catagorize genres like one would animal species. Trends in music give birth to other sub-trends, yes, but often the new sub-trend/genre looks to the past or to other contemporary influences to define itself. So math rock bands were inspired by the prog bands of the 70s who were in turn inspired (in part) by the primitivists of the early twentieth century; some of whom were specifically trying to invoke ancient and/or foreign musical traditions.

Then radiohead hears one of those traditional rhythms clapped in time to Morning Bell and that became the beat to 15 step and we've come full circle.

P.S. Love that Gentle Giant video! Jesus of Nazareth on keyboards, ladies and gentlemen.

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Primetime posted:

As mentioned before, one of the biggest problems with the 'math' label is it encompasses way too many bands, so you can rarely find what you want. I personally love 65daysofstatic, Minus the Bear, Maps and Atlases, and now thanks to this thread, This Town Needs Guns.

I've listened to most of what has been suggested in this thread, but it seems like a majority of the focus has switched to mathcore, and frankly I'm not a fan of metal or hard rock. Are there any other math rock bands at a Minus the Bear or Maps and Atlases level that I may have missed?

As I mentioned before, So Many Dynamos fit this bill pretty nicely.

https://www.myspace.com/somanydynamos

Listen to Progress and Artifacts of Sound

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

I also really encourage everyone to see So Many Dynamos live if possible. None of their studio work parallels their live show at all. I've seen them three times and each time was more and more tight and awesome.

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blanksuspect
Mar 4, 2009


d0grent posted:

I'm not going to stop recommending this band until everyone in the thread listens to them.

I'd like to thank this thread for reinvigorating my love for this band. Seriously brilliant.


"Primetime posted:

As mentioned before, one of the biggest problems with the 'math' label is it encompasses way too many bands, so you can rarely find what you want. I personally love 65daysofstatic, Minus the Bear, Maps and Atlases, and now thanks to this thread, This Town Needs Guns.

I've listened to most of what has been suggested in this thread, but it seems like a majority of the focus has switched to mathcore, and frankly I'm not a fan of metal or hard rock. Are there any other math rock bands at a Minus the Bear or Maps and Atlases level that I may have missed?

I think you should give a listen to Cats and Cats and Cats, Sharks Keep Moving, and my favorite at the moment Piglet (no vocals)

fake edit: Pele (also no vocal)

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