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Hello, all. I have a thread running in the BFC subsection about a situation I am in. You can find it here: Unpaid invoices! Freelance FTW and breaking working relationships The rundown: I recently (Wed June 05) terminated an "internship" with a former client of mine. This client is now a former client because when I quit our "internship," he was upset and decided he wished to no longer make use of the services which I provided and was getting paid for (a photo assistant). When I terminated the "internship," I received a check from him for an invoice which was due on June 06. I then returned a piece of equipment I was borrowing from him on June 07, when he gave me a check for the expenses I paid for his business out of my own pocket (camera cleaning, rental equipment, lunch, etc.). On Monday, June 10, he requested a refund from the bank for the checks had written me, which I had deposited on June 07, and which had cleared over the weekend. I now have bank fees for a returned check as well as overdraft fees for this transaction. I intend to charge him for those fees, as well. There are also 4 additional invoices I have with him that are due July 01. I asked him about this transaction, and if he knew anything about it, to which he responded that he would like to talk at a later date, stating that yesterday June 11 or this morning June 12, would be best so he "could get all his info together." I find that phrase to be suspicious. I put the term "internship" in quotations, because, per some responses in my thread, the nature and validity of that internship is in question. During the internship he was training me on how to edit/retouch wedding photos and I was doing work on projects which still needed to be delivered to his clients. Obviously, given the way things typically work these days, "internship" also means "unpaid." When I quit the "internship," he was upset, because he said that I was bound, by some part agreement we had, to carry out the internship to its full extent. I understood the nature of the internship to be probationary, i.e.,that should I not be performing to his standards, that he could terminate the process. But if it works that way, then it works the other and he cannot indenture me to an indefinite amount of time and effort to do his work for him for free. None of this was written down, which is why there was a conflict upon my termination of the internship. One of the reasons I quit the "internship" was because the extent of the "internship" was unclear to me -- what the timeline was or how many projects I would complete for him. Another reason I quit the internship was because I was doing his job for him without pay. And lastly, I quit the internship because, frankly, I am not very interested in weddings, wedding photography, and the fact that working with him in this structure was tedious and time-consuming (to the point where I would take time off or work shorter shifts at my regular place of employment). Also, I was not receiving any college credit for this internship since I have been out of school for a number of years. I feel like he has asked for a refund for the checks from the bank on the basis of him retaliating against me for quitting the internship and wants to get something out of me, which I have yet to discover. A more complete story of my situation is in that thread, and if anyone has any insight into this or further questions of the matter, please let me know in that thread. ----------- A few more notes: I am on my way out the door to my job right now, and will be calling the Department of Labor for clarification on the nature of internships when I get back home this afternoon. I have contacted a couple friends of mine to poll them for their basic interpretation of the situation (one is in Seattle, one is in Los Angeles) and they both believe his stance to be, for lack of a better term, bullshit. He left me a voicemail last night telling me that he wants to speak with me over the phone and then work out an agreement in writing, that he "has spoken with his attorney," and that he thinks it would be best if I comply with him, but implied that he would resort to legal measures if need be. I am aware that photographers often posture and flex when they feel threatened (sending strongly-worded e-mails and threatening legal action, but usually in the case of potential copyright violation), and I think that is exactly what he is doing right now (as do my lawyer friends). I, however, am not (though, I have not yet informed him of this, in the hopes of resolving this matter ourselves). If it does come to that point, I will take legal steps to the fullest extent I can. I have enough time to take out of my schedule to do that, and I know his business can't afford it. Subjunctivitis fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jun 12, 2013 |
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Jun 12, 2013 18:13
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:34 |
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Thanatosian posted:IANAL, but I wouldn't speak with him over the phone. All communication should be via email, so you've got a written record of everything said from here on out. If you've got a way to do it, I would save that voicemail, too. I am located in XXXXXXX, CA. And yes, I informed him, both via e-mail and via text that I would only have this conversation via e-mail only. And I have that voicemail saved, as well. Subjunctivitis fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Feb 9, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2013 23:37
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New update to my thread: Unpaid invoices! Freelance FTW and breaking working relationships
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Jun 13, 2013 00:56
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Hey all, I have an update to my predicament with this photographer who didn't pay my invoices and with whom I had an unpaid "internship." He e-mailed me a letter with all kinds of good stuff in it (nothing on paper...). Join in on the fun here: Freelance FTW: Unpaid Invoices and Unpaid Internships
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Jun 21, 2013 21:49
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I posted a thread in the BFC subforum (where anyone who is interested can read for more information), but I want to ask a more specific question here about the following portion of a letter (PDF e-mail) I received from the photographer who is a now-former client of mine.The Photographer posted:You agreed to received professional one-on-one training on Adobe Lightroom and Before I ask my question, here is a list points for consideration (I'm being redundant and pedantic for the sake of clarity): 1) I worked for him as an independent contractor (when he would book me for shoot dates as well as time to help him maintain his studio) and then in April, we began an unpaid "internship" situation alongside that (retouching wedding images). 2) I got paid for my IC work, but not the internship work. 3) During the unpaid internship, I worked on photos which he still had to submit to his clients (for free) 4) During the unpaid internship, the photographer guided me to produce the images to his standards and to his liking until he was satisfied with the work before he would submit them to his clients. 5) The unpaid internship had no written contract 6) The unpaid internship, as I understood* it, was for some number of projects (4, 5, 6?) or indeterminate length of time (1 month? 2, 3, 4?) until the photographer decided he was satisfied with my work and then being able produce work for him for pay. 7) The photographer (until I received this letter) was in agreement with those undetermined number of projects an length of time. 8) The photographer also had in mind that I was required finish the internship when it was deemed to be complete (see 6 and 7) 9) As you can see above, the photographer now states that the internship was only supposed to be for 4 projects. I completed 3. 10) If I had been aware of the number of projects or length of time to complete the internship, I would not have quit the internship (or would be much much less likely to quit it). 11) When I quit the internship, the photographer told me that I was required to complete the internship ("the big wedding season is coming up and now I have to find someone else" was an additional thing he threw into that conversation), and I told him that, sure, I could help him out and do this next project and the one after that. The photographer obviously did not accept that offer. So now, as you can read above, he wants me to either do more free work for him or to pay him for the "training" he has given me. That seems bogus, but I could be wrong. However, my question is: What kind of recourse does the photographer have for me immediately quitting the internship (i.e. without notice)? *I use the past tense here, because he is contesting my understanding of the scope of the internship.
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Jun 21, 2013 23:49
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What kind of stance or legal basis does the photographer have to sue me for training costs? Just a reminder that there was only a verbal contract (where some points of understanding between us are in conflict) and that I was not paid during the time of training ("internship"). I have not signed a NDA or non-compete either (which seems to line up with his paranoia and will to sue me for the future damage he believes I will undoubtedly do). This paragraph on the website of a California law firm seems to indicate that he cannot because a judge would likely find the training period invalid: "Generally, the more a trainee job resembles a traditional job, the less likely it will be upheld as a valid education-in-lieu-of-pay arrangement. To increase the chances that trainee jobs will be upheld, employers should make sure that the jobs consist mainly of substantive training work, rather than just menial or administrative tasks. Trainees also must be enrolled in educational and/or vocational programs that are relevant to their training work (e.g., newspaper interns must be presently enrolled in journalism programs) at the time the work occurs. Employers likely cannot enter into valid trainee relationships with people who either are not presently in school, or who are not enrolled in classes and/or programs that are unrelated to their training work."
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Jun 22, 2013 21:57
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:34 |
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So I posted in here a long-rear end time ago about a lawsuit I filed with a photographer who refused to pay my invoices... The conclusion (finally) is here
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Apr 4, 2014 19:31
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