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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Baron Bifford posted:

When I considered Tilikum's acts, I wondered If we are to consider orcas to be like humans, should we not hold Tilikum accountable for his crimes? Should he be tried and punished according to his crimes but with consideration for his psychological suffering?

Here's a thought: No.

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



The issue is that we shouldn't imprison and torture intelligent living beings, it's not "well if a whale is like a person we should put it on trial like a person!", that's psychotic.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

It's an interesting point because that's kind of the heart of the matter. That is de facto the indifference to Tillikum's unjust plight. He and his kind were kidnapped from their natural habitat, went psychotic from the confinement and social isolation, dared to lash out then got labeled as a troublemaker. The handwringing answer? It's not all that bad because some of them like it. Look at the crowds. They also back up their support for this confinement by pointing out that when released, these animals who've lived a brutal life of imprisonment can now no longer function in among their own kind.

The film doesn't anthropomorphize him for nothing.

None of what you said is inaccurate but it's also not the vibe I got from Bifford asking if we should put Tilikum on trial since whales are like people. Plus, while the movie does certainly anthropomorphize Tilikum to an extent, it also very much makes the point that anthropomorphizing these animals too much is dangerous.

Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 20, 2013

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I agree. But then, that raises other interesting questions people would rather not talk or think about.

I'd really like for you to expand on this some more, this is an interesting discussion.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Even before getting into what this means for our fellow human beings (the very first thing I thought of watching this was The House I Live In), the obviousness of that ethical stance is enough to provoke thoughts about all kinds of things we just accept as facts of life and that is disturbing in a literal sense. It's a lot easier and much less disturbing to just dismiss it as cheap anthropomorphism, even if the film does make a lot of great points about both not anthropomorphizing animals to that degree while also understanding that our fellow animals are complex organisms with emotional lives.

I agree with this, and I find it pretty rad that a lot of the response coming about as a result of this movie is not just "gently caress Seaworld" but also "Well what about Zoos? What about the meat industry?" etc.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



a lovely poster posted:

The real shame is how many people who are normally not political/activist get enraged by films like these. Don't get me wrong, it's horrific, but it's an animal. The volume of human suffering that goes on this world is so much greater than what was in that movie, it's a shame that humans have such a hard time empathizing with each other, but somehow are able to do so with animals.

"But they're like people", what do you think people get treated like in this world?

poo poo, I don't know. Bad? Is the answer "bad"?

Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 21, 2013

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Hm, while I originally said it was cool that Blackfish was getting people to think about other aspects of animal rights, the thread has since turned into "baby's first internet animal rights argument" so I may have to reassess my position.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



NeilPerry posted:

If you're into DC hardcore I suggest Fugazi's documentary Instrument. I haven't actually seen it but I hear good things about it. It's supposedly rather self-indulgent but Fugazi is an amazing band so I don't think that's much of a problem. Bit on the long end though.

Instrument is my favorite music documentary ever. I'm biased because they're probably my favorite band, but I feel like even if you're not a huge fan of theirs, the really cool abstract editing style of the movie gives you a lot to enjoy. Jem Cohen's a really neat filmmaker.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



achillesforever6 posted:

I think Lemmy is pretty great and its a testament that Lemmy Kilmister is a demigod or something because no man should be able to live after the poo poo he has done to his body, he is literally the personification of Sex, Drugs, and Rock n Roll (plus a lot of booze).

Yeah Lemmy's a bit uneven but it's definitely worthwhile if you're a fan of his and it has some really interesting moments, like him defending his collection of Nazi memorabilia, the interview with the guy who custom makes all his boots, and the bits where him and his son are interviewed together.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Oh, and re: metal documentaries, Heavy Metal Parking Lot and The Decline of Western Civilization Part II are absolutely essential.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



OldTennisCourt posted:

I've seen the first, I'm not really interested in 2 or 3 as I've heard they have a real bad habit of the documentarians trying really hard to make themselves part of the story. 2 in particular I've heard is basically "Well we're not SAYING this guy did it, but he sure looks and sounds crazy huh?"

The second one isn't not this, but that dude's behavior definitely makes for a fascinating watch.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007




I'm about 35 minutes in and all I can think is how much this dude looks like James Franco.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Man, Daughter from Danang sounds brutal.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Yeah Happy People almost made me cry. In addition to the dog story, the whole moment of the dog running alongside the jetski the whole way home hit me hard.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Schlinky posted:

I might take a look into that Eagles doco, could be worth the look.

Would anyone else be able to recommend some interesting music documentaries? I'm interested less about the history of an era and more about the stories behind the people, but I'm totally up for anything if it's good.

Instrument: Ten Years With the Band Fugazi is my all time favorite

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



BiggerBoat posted:

Anyone heard of a documentary called "No No" about a dude named Doc Ellis who pitched a no-hitter in the 70's while tripping on acid? It looks really interesting but I don't see it on Netflix. As someone who possessed superhuman basketball and pool shooting skills while tripping, I'm anxious to see the film's take on it.

Intuition says you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while on LSD but on more than one occasion, the other side of my brain took over and I was unstoppable.

i haven't seen the documentary but i think most people believe Doc Ellis was full of poo poo.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



BiggerBoat posted:

Also, why would he lie about it and make it up?

because it's a loving great story.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Winter Soldier is also on youtube and is pretty devastating.

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



If you're interested in the story, you should definitely read the book Black Mass. Movie doesn't look too good, but the book is a great quick read.

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