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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Late to the thread and haven't read it all but Peter Jackson did a movie about the West Memphis 3 case, first made famous by the 3 HBO Paradise Lost films, called West of Memphis.

Here's Paradise Lost 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNdCP9z2cM

West of Memphis didn't too well at the box office but casts some pretty serious light on who committed the murders and how/why the West Memphis Three were let out of prison. It's the best of the four documentaries on the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_of_Memphis

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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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OldTennisCourt posted:

Any suggestions for some True Crime documentaries? I've seen Dear Zachary, Capturing the Friedmans, There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane, and Thin Blue Line. I'd love some stories about really twisty, turney crimes and the trials around them.

Beaten, but Paradise Lost 1, 2 and 3 and West of Memphis. PL2 is basically a "John Mark Byers did it" hit piece and is the weakest of the bunch but still interesting in the way it demonstrates all of the problems with the State's case. I've been knee deep in the WM3 case for a long time, know it well, have donated money to the defense and have spoken with Mark Byers several times on the phone. He didn't do it by the way.

Also, The Thin Blue Line is really great and in the same vein in as much as a documentary film to free an innocent man.

edit: HBO true crime docs are the best. There was one really disturbing one I watched about Troy Kell who was in prison and became a white supremacist. The movie straight up shows Kell stabbing another inmate like 50 loving times. It made me sick to watch it.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 30, 2014

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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DrVenkman posted:

What do you make of some of the information that got held back from the movies that painted Echols et al in a less than innocent light? I found it interesting that a 500 page report of Echols previous mental history was presented to the court and it wasn't mentioned at all during the movie (Or any of the others). I'd be interested to know if the filmmakers were aware of that stuff, though given they were there at all times you'd have to assume so.

There's a surprising number of sites that believe the 3 are guilty and while I wouldn't say the evidence is compelling (There are leaps in logic abound), a few of them at least do a job of looking at the evidence presented to the court, rather than just news reports.

While I think something like http://wm3truth.com/the-west-memphis-three-were-guilty/ is still a hit piece, it does quite logically poke holes in some of the case for the defense (Links are on the left hand side for those who want to read them). The site http://www.callahan.8k.com/ has the largest library available on the subject, offering hundreds of court transcripts and evidence etc. Amusingly it's owned by two guys, one who thinks they're guilty and one who thinks they're innocent.

Exhibit 500 was presented by Echols' defense team in order to reduce Damien Echols' sentence. There's no doubt the kid was hosed up and had a questionable background, etc. but the WM3 are innocent. I know about Callhan's, the WM3 truth website and several others. There's a group of people who have a serious hard on for the WM3, believe they are guilty and post everywhere about it. You'll see the same names all over the place.

To answer your question regarding exhibit 500 and "the things the movie(s) held back, I don't make much of it at all beyond the fact that Damien Echols was mentally ill and suffered from depression because nothing in exhibit 500 links Echols to the crime, nor do any of the "WM3 Guilty" websites. There's not one single shred of physical evidence linking any of those boys to the crime.

Leading forensic experts have testified that most, if not all of the wounds on the murdered children were the result of animal predation and that the cause of death was drowning. I personally believe that Terry Wayne Hobbs murdered those kids, tied them up with their own shoelaces, moved them to the ditch and got away with it.

If you want to know more about what I know, PM me, otherwise I'm happy to post it here but I don't want to derail the thread too much. Remember the bite mark from PL2? It's a perfect match for Terry Hobbs' partial denture. Hobbs killed those kids.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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DrVenkman posted:

While I agree (Though I can't quite agree on Hobbs), it's even murkier since now Echols actually discredits the Exhibit 500 completely and claims it was written by one person who clearly had a vendetta (For those that don't know, it's a massive document of Echols mental history, written by various social workers, nurses, doctors and even Echols himself and was used to essentially get him out of the death penalty). He's given a few interviews where he handwaves it away as his team having nothing to do with it.

While I don't think it points to his guilt at all (Though stomping a dog to death and telling people he was going to sacrifice his first born didn't help - no wonder he tries to discredit it) what I do think is that it has become sort of image management by him and his people and that's a story I kind of find fascinating.

I agree it probably needs a thread of its own somewhere though so we don't derail this thread.

Dr.Caligari posted:

Not only do I want to hear more, but I think this deserves an ask/tell or some other thread of it's own (surprised we don't have a WM3 thread already actually)

Since you say the cause of death was drowning, you think Hobbs abused them, tied them up, threw them in a ditch where they ulimately drowned? Or that he drowned them in another location and then dumped them in a ditch? I guess one question that comes up with that is that in some ways it seems premeditated, but the hap-hazard throwing in a ditch where he knew they would be discovered seems to indicate it was spontaneous.. Anyway, yes, I think a lot of us would like to hear more

We've had a few WM3 threads. Most recently when they were released. I can start one when I find the time to write a proper OP (which would take a while because this case insane).

It's not me who said the cause of death was drowning. It was Werner Spitz and his colleagues; several of the leading forensic experts in the world. I think the boys were beaten and left for dead close by. Most likely stashed in a manhole. There's an industrial patterned wound on the leg of one child that very much resembles rebar, which is used for the ladders inside these manholes. There were several manholes very close by the discovery site. These images have also been independently reviewed by people who would know and ALL OF THEM said that this wound is likely a rebar impression.

No rebar in that creek.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/3c326865ca053dca97a79a4df9e8b642c1d85337.pjpg

The boys were tied with their won shoelaces later that night to ease transport where they likely succumbed to blunt force trauma, drowned and were predated upon by aquatic animals; most likely turtles and fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-CDl_mXgHs

The "bite mark" on Steve Branch that caused so much hulabaloo in PL2 matches a partial denture that was found in lock box owned by Terry Wayne Hobbs. Also in the lockbox was a 1993 (the year the boys were murdered) penny and Stevie's pocket knife. That was all that was in there.

I can't find the gif image of the partial denture superimposed over the bite mark but the guy that came up with it is a dentist and a supporter of the WM3. It's chilling to watch. It's out there somewhere.

Here's a still image.

http://www.maraleveritt.com/images/Blog_Photos/BiteMarks03.png

I'll e-mail the guy and see if he can point me to it. Last I heard, he was having it peer reviewed and planned on presenting it at a dentist conference or something.

There were no stab wounds on any of the kids. They weren't loving scraped to death. The State has (had) no case which is why they were let go. They also have no interest in investigating it either.

The more you look at this case, apply Occam's Razor and all that, it seems pretty likely it was Hobbs. Usually it's a close family member with the motive, the means and the opportunity. Hobbs was NEVER interviewed by police in 1993 and LEFT TOWN two or three weeks after the murders. Hobbs (and his close friend) left the only identifiable evidence behind. Hobbs had the pocket knife and no alibi. He places himself at the crime scene during the time of the murders.

Here's a transcript of his deposition from when he tried to sue Natalie Maines. There's video of it somewhere:

http://callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/t_hobbs_depo1.html

You guys want me to start an A/T thread?

Edit 2:

Sorry.

The dentist wrote me back. Here's some more of the denture mark:

http://maraleveritt.com/some-humans-bite-revisiting-the-evidence/

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 31, 2014

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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DrVenkman posted:

It's a strange issue because, no matter how it's put, there was blood at the crime scene. However the judge eventually came to the decision that he couldn't allow the luminol testing - that site has the transcript of that conversation with the lawyers - but I'm not entirely sure why. He rules it's not 'strong' enough to be used as evidence against the three, but concedes that it does show blood was at the scene. It was actually one of the decisions that the judge made in favour of the defence, but it's left out of the movie (As is the whole blood issue).

Having watched the second movie again I've come away with a bit more of a sour take on it, mainly because it does spend so long going "look at this guy!" in regards to Byers. He's clearly attention seeking and either the film-makers were sucked in by it or just documented it in lieu of anything else. By all accounts it was known for a while that Byers was having his teeth removed and replaced with dentures but the movie still frames it as 'There's teeth marks on the body...Oh my God this guy suddenly had his teeth removed!'.

I think the first movie works as well as it does because they just document what's happening, the second and third movies instead want to play detective, to their detriment.


Regarding the luminol testing, not only was it done after the fact, but was done in an area where the bodies were placed on the ditch. Deer urine (and other animal urine) reacts to luminol tests and deer were very prevalent in that area also. There's a reason the judge disallowed it.


EDIT: I was mistaken here.

A dump site would also produce trace evidence of blood. When supporters say "no blood was found at the crime scene" what they mean is "if 3 children were murdered RIGHT HERE and stabbed to death in a drunken Satanic ritual orgy, there'd be blood EVERYWHERE".

Byers didn't do it either. Granted, he comes off as a crazy person (but so does everyone else in those films) and has copped to being drunk and on drugs for at least 10 years after the murders, but his known timeline and alibis don't fit nor does any of physical evidence link him to the crime. Why would Byers, were he guilty, suddenly flip sides and loudly turn into a supporter, write Damien letters of apology and fight for their releaseif he was confident that he already had other people locked up for something he did?

The Kershaw knife is a red herring because none of the children were stabbed. Same with the lake knife found behind Jason's house. The deeper you get into this case, the more you have to apply Occam's razor because there's so such innuendo, heresay and shoddy police work that it's hard to know who or what to believe.

Guess I need to drum an A/T thread but it's very daunting, has been done better elsewhere and, having followed the case so closely for so long, I have closed the book/turned the page on so many things it's hard for me to be objective. I guess I could C&P a bit of it but that's rather frowned upon on this site.

Look at that denture impression and the rebar pattern I posted. That's the closest thing there is to a smoking gun, along with Hobbs' and Jacoby's DNA, the Natalie Maines deposition and Hobbs placing himself at the crime scene at the time the murders were supposedly committed. If the WM3 did it, they're criminal masterminds. Do they strike any of you as tremendously bright or clever?

Volkerball posted:

Guy asks for nature documentaries, and you all point him to crime dramas.

Old Tennis Court about 20 posts up asked for True Crime movies. Probably most of us were replying to that dude.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Aug 6, 2014

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:

Also, both Misskelley and Echols revealed details about the murder before they were known to the public or to the detectives.

No they didn't.

Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:

Misskelley knew that a boy had been cut on the face, and that only one boy had been sexually mutilated.

Neither of those things happened.

Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:

Echols said something about urine in the mouth/stomach before it was found in the autopsy.

There was no urine found in anyone's stomachs.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Dr.Caligari posted:

Not only do I want to hear more, but I think this deserves an ask/tell or some other thread of it's own (surprised we don't have a WM3 thread already actually)

DrVenkman posted:

I agree it probably needs a thread of its own somewhere though so we don't derail this thread.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

BiggerBoat an A/T thread would be awesome.

Thy will be done:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3657059

Can you guys C&P your questions over there to get it going (or do you mind if I do)? I may just drag and drop our exchanges from this thread over there to light a fire. With your permission of course.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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I watched one recently about the bottled water industry. Forgot the name of it but it only reinforced the idea in my head that bottled water is the ultimate scam. I get mad at my wife when she buys it.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Schlinky posted:

Would anyone else be able to recommend some interesting music documentaries?

Seconding The Filth and the Fury

I watched one recently about Fishbone called Everyday Sunshine that I really liked but I'm a big fan.

David Bowie: 5 Years is airing on Starz or Showtime right now and covers the years from Ziggy Stardust through Scary Monsters.

Something from Nothing: The Art of Rap was a good look at the history of hip hop.

Frank Zappa: Apostrophe was awesome because Zappa owns.

If you like Prince, there's The Prince of Paisley Park and Prince in the 80's, which I managed to find here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRNYiFxR2Ps

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Kull the Conqueror posted:

If you can find it, The Decline of Western Civilization is a classic.

e: Jesus, I had no idea it was so off the grid. That movie needs to get restored, but it's too expensive with all the song rights.

Agreed. Part 2 is good also. Check out Heavy Metal Parking Lot if you're into making fun of 80's metal and their fans. it's on YouTube.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Anyone heard of a documentary called "No No" about a dude named Doc Ellis who pitched a no-hitter in the 70's while tripping on acid? It looks really interesting but I don't see it on Netflix. As someone who possessed superhuman basketball and pool shooting skills while tripping, I'm anxious to see the film's take on it.

Intuition says you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while on LSD but on more than one occasion, the other side of my brain took over and I was unstoppable.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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revdrkevind posted:

So it is a thing, and yes most people think it's bullshit, although his life was otherwise quite interesting.

I wonder why they think it's bullshit. His score line form that night seems like a guy on acid.

quote:

Pittsburgh Pirates
IP H R ER BB SO
9.0 0 0 0 8 6

8 walks doesn't seem like a dude who had his best stuff or control and would seem to support his story. Has anyone else pitched a no hitter with that many walks? A quick Google search gives me this:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=ESrS

So maybe I'm wrong there. But two things: there's some pretty big names on that list (Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Jack Morris, Jim Palmer, Sandy Koufax) . Also, why would he lie about it and make it up? Just to sell books? Maybe. Like I said, as someone who seriously was able to shoot pool and drain three pointers well beyond my normal abilities, I'm inclined to believe it.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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I watched American: The Bill Hicks Story last night and enjoyed that quite a bit. I'd never heard of it before. Any other good documentaries about stand up comedians? I saw the one on Richard Pryor.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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rear end Catchcum posted:

Comedian is the best comedy documentary.

You're talking about teh Seinfeld one, right? I saw that one and, yes, it was good. I liked the Bill Hicks one because you got to the know the man a little bit and I appreciated the clever way the graphics department wove old polaroids and poo poo into the narrative.

I'd be interested to see movies that take a similiar approach, especially to comedians with a dark side (most of them). Like a documentary on Lenny Bruce, Sam Kinison or Mitch Hedberg would pretty awesome.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Since we're into documentaries and I haven't seen it mentioned yet: Bruce Sinofsky died at the age of 58.

quote:

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/bruce-sinofsky-paradise-lost-trilogy-director-dies-at-58-1201438514/

Oscar-nominated filmmaker Bruce Sinofsky died early Saturday morning in his sleep from complications stemming from diabetes, his frequent collaborator Joe Berlinger told Variety. He was 58.

Sinofsky covered a range of topics in his career — from heavy metal to murder cases.

He is best known for the “Paradise Lost” trilogy, a series of films he made with Berlinger about the West Memphis Three, a group of teenagers convicted, despite a lack of evidence, of murdering and sexually mutilating three prepubescent boys. Prosecutors claimed the children were killed as part of a satanic court ritual. Those films helped draw attention to miscarriages of justice associated with their trial and conviction. A number of celebrities including Pearl Jam’s Eddie Vedder, Henry Rollins and Johnny Depp also rallied to the cause.

Public pressure resulted in the Arkansas Supreme Court allowing the three men — Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley Jr. and Jason Baldwin — to be released after serving 18 years and 78 days in prison. Sinofsky and Berlinger were nominated for an Oscar for 2011’s “Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory” just months after the men were freed.

He also won an Emmy for co-directing 1996’s “Paradise Lost” and a Directors Guild Award for teaming with Berlinger on 1992’s “Brother’s Keeper,” which looked at an elderly man accused of murdering his brother.

In a statement to Variety, Berlinger remembered that Sinofsky urged him to work on “Brother’s Keeper” in 1991 despite the fact that they lacked equipment and financial backing.

“His unique combination of courage and empathy made that possible, as well as everything that came after for us,” Berlinger said. “The extraordinary adventures we had on the road and the deeply stimulating experiences we had in the editing room were life-changing for all of us who knew him thanks to his wisdom and fervor to change the world.”

Sinofsky was also passionate about music, as evidenced by his work on “Metallica: Some Kind of Monster” and “Good Rockin’ Tonight: The Legacy of Sun Records” for PBS’ “American Masters.”

His other credits include episodes of the Sundance Channel series “Iconoclasts,” an installment of History’s “10 Days that Unexpectedly Changed America,” “Oprah’s Master Class: Civil Rights Special” and numerous other film and television projects.

“Bruce’s humanity is on every frame of the films that he leaves behind, and words can’t express how graced I feel my life has been by having the extraordinary opportunity of being able to say we were partners and, more importantly, best friends,” Berlinger said.

Sinofsky also won a Peabody, an Independent Spirit Award and accolades from the Sundance Film Festival.

He graduated from New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts and kicked off his career working as an editor at Maysles Films, the company behind such legendary documentaries as “Grey Gardens” and “Gimme Shelter.”

A memorial service for Sinofsky will be held in March.

The Paradise Lost/WM3 Movies led me on a 20 year obsession and involvement with that case. I haven't seen the Metallica movie or his other films but I want to. Figure I'd post this here just FWIW.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Shiny Llama posted:

Are there any good documentaries on Prince that were actually finished and released?
The only stuff I can find seems to be guys talking about how they were planning on making one but were denied by the man himself.

There's "The Prince of Paisley Park" and what I think was called "Prince in the 80's" but they can be hard to find online. Those are the only 2 I've seen.

Amazon turns up these:

http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Glory-Years-Documentary-Review/dp/B000W7M1I0

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Does Koyaanisqatsi count as a documentary? Cause that movie's pretty great.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Good points.

I'm not sure I'd call Koyaanisqatsi a documentary in the modern traditional sense but it felt like one when I was done watching it and had reflected on it. I'd say it qualifies because it feels like it's trying to tell you a true story but without the usual narrative trappings, voice overs, captions, interviews and statistics. It certainly tells a true story and gets its point across.

It's also equal parts amazing/depressing to watch on acid or mushrooms.

I'll have to check out Man With A Movie Camera. Never heard of it.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Ropes4u posted:

Something else that stood in my mind is how prom is slowly getting more degrading.

The Prom has always been degrading.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Anyone seen Évocateur: The Morton Downey Jr. Movie yet?

It's being billed as a new film by CNN but I put it in my Netflix queue 8 months ago and it's credited as being made in 2012. Downey has always struck me as the godfather of modern right wing media, spawning Springer, Rush and now Trump, in the ways that he normalized the disintegration of polite discourse and general common decency and i find him fascinating in that sense.

I'm not really sure if there was someone before him that brought this sort of circus act style to the mainstream of modern discourse, at least in the areas that he did. If there was someone, I don't know about them.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Mahoning posted:

Not to nitpick but Jerry Springer is a pretty staunch democrat.

True. I think Povich is too but those guys aren't newscasters. I was referring to the effect Downey had on modern discourse in the media. Springer doesn't really angrily yell at people, does he?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Have there any been any documentaries about Amway, Herbalife and multi-level marketing? I was thinking about this the other day and thought the subject would be ripe for a Christopher Guest style comedy along the lines of "A Mighty Wind" or "Best in Show".

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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xcore posted:

I finally got around to seeing West of Memphis. Not actually knowing the story apart from remembering the Dixie Chicks/Eddie Vedder stuff at the time and not knowing what they were referring to.


Have you seen the 3 "Paradise Lost" films?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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^^^yes, you should watch them all^^^

El Gallinero Gros posted:

For what it's worth, I think the Byers kid's dad did it.

He didn't.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

The difference is we're basing it on actual evidence, I think. For me it's the teeth marks and his constantly changing story regarding the knife that had his and Chris Byers DNA on it. Also, we're not sentencing anybody to death on our half-baked theories.

Help me out, is Hobbs the dude who wandered into Bojangles? Or is he the dude who suspiciously moved out of town not long after the bodies were found?

The "bite mark" actually matches Terry Hobbs' partial denture. Hobbs is the step parent of one other kid (Stevie Branch). His DNA was found in a lace used to tie one of the children. The Bojangles man was never identified.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Sep 23, 2015

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Mahoning posted:

So I've been really into true crime documentaries lately. In the past few weeks I've watched:

Theres Something Wrong with Aunt Diane - good, but not great
The Chesire Murders - again good but not great. Definitely an interesting crime, but it felt like the film was touching on some interesting things but never fully fleshed them out. Would love to have it delve deeper into the possibility that the cops could have saved some lives had they actually acted quicker/differently.
Into the Abyss - interesting in that we talk to the criminals who are behind bars. A bit more focused on its subject matter (the death penalty) than some others I've watched.
Crazy Love - An interesting story, but I hated it. It just was not what I was looking for.

Some older ones I've already seen:
Dear Zachary
The Jinx
The Central Park Five


Any recommendations are welcome.

Thin Blue Line is great.

Also, the West Memphis Three "Paradise Lost" trilogy and "West of Memphis".

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Anybody here get a kick out watching really bad "documentaries", like Dreams of My Real Father, Loose Change and Room 321 levels of silliness? I enjoy watching the insanity but get depressed knowing that too many people, who ordinarily don't watch documentaries, come away watching these and thinking they're enlightened.

Because, "hey. Yeah. I read a BOOK/watched a doco" when ordinarily they never would?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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I watched "Being Evel" on the History Channel last night. It wasn't as good as the book but was pretty captivating, especially if you grew up in the 70's like I did.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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What's everyone's take on Making of a Murderer? I just started it and know it's getting a lot of hype.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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If you like art and/or Hunter S. Thompson, there's a good documentary about Ralph Steadman I saw not too long ago called "For No Good Reason". I may have posted it before.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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mod sassinator posted:

The first episode of CNN's new documentary series The Eighties premiered Thursday last week and is really really good. Definitely worth tracking down through whatever means you have for finding TV shows online. It's produced by Tom Hanks, just like their past docs on the 60's and 70's. The intro for it is a major nostalgia blast, here's all of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Rswf_C3WU

I watched 2 of the 80's episodes and they were really good but, my God, the long, sloppy blowjob they gave to Reagan was a bit much to take. I think he was a horrible president and to this day can never understand why he's so lauded and praised. I liked the 60's and 70's ones too.

Bummer how old the old the 80's one made me feel though.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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MeinPanzer posted:

Just watched O.J. Simpson: Made in America (which I haven't seen being discussed much around here - or am I just missing a discussion thread?)

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3779690

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Unmature posted:

Is there a good, legal place to stream Harlan County USA? Is it on Filmstruck?

I just found it on Youtube.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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Thanks to whoever posted Decline of Western Civ.

I've seen 2 a few times and parts of 3 but part 1 was really loving hard to track down.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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There's a doc I want to see on Phantom if the Paradise called "The Phantom of Winnipeg" but I'm unable to find it on DVD, streaming, y/t, etc.

Anyone know where I can watch it?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

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The Whole Damned Thing

Waltzing Along posted:

Can someone recommend a documentary on christianity and the bible? I don't mean BS that actually believes all that poo poo. I mean something that deep dives into how the Romans compiled a ton of stories and myths and made the new testament and the actual truth of it's genesis (no pun intended) and all that. I remember something I saw about how the catholic church is just the continuation of the roman empire and I'm curious about how that goes.

The Life of Brian

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

Stumbled upon a pretty good Jack Kirby documentary. Apologies if it's been posted already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoXeiEXJrgc

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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The Whole Damned Thing

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

This was great, somehow I'd never seen this one before.

:tipshat:

I never got around to appreciating Kirby that much until I got older, tried to draw my own comics and began to recognize what I was really looking at in his art and the techniques he was using. The guy was a story telling machine and the idea that he drew those pages from top left to bottom right without slip sheeting or doing much in the way of thumbnail sketches blew my loving mind.

You can look at an entire book of Jack's without any word balloons at all and know exactly what is happening in the entire story. He made Stan's job infinitely easier. I also really enjoyed looking at his pencils before inks were added. It's just gorgeous to look at.

Any aspiring comic book artist (or even movie story boarder) should really take a close look at what he was doing.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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The Whole Damned Thing

banned from Starbucks posted:

Tombstone is p dope. It has the benefit of being a huge ensemble rather than just a VK movie though.

Kilmer is good in Heat even though I don't like that film as much as others. I also thought he made a pretty good Bruce Wayne if not a decent Batman, but nobody besides Keaton and Affleck have ever really nailed both parts of that role; same with Superman since Chris Reeve.

My favorite Kilmer role, movie and performance was in a little independent movie called Wonderland about porn star John Holmes, his insane drug habit and his role in a cocaine fueled triple homicide that is mostly known from the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights and the subject of a few really good documentaries.

Kilmer is fine.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

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The Whole Damned Thing

Nohearum posted:

This might've been posted before but the PBS documentary on Ruby Ridge is very well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsjUqXWv-zI

^^^That was excellent^^^

Unrelated, but I've seen this one before but had forgotten about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5LGoeAIfg

It's a bio on John C. Holmes, the inspiration for Boogie Nights, that goes into a lot of detail about the incredible Wonderland murders (which were also told in a Val Kilmer movie of the same name). The reality is way more hosed up than the Alfred Molina scene in the movie. If you like train wrecks and 70's style debauchery, give it a watch

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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

What do you guys make of the recent Sons Of Sam documentary on Netflix?

I remember reading Maury Terry's book, The Ultimate Evil, when I was maybe 13 or so and being intrigued by it. Later on, as I was Subjected to Geraldo Rivera and, Satanic Panic and then, later still, delved into the West Memphis Three case and I decided that this was all bullshit but now I'm wondering. Still not sure I buy it and I wouldn't call Berkowitz credible. All this crap is hard to believe but the doc lays out a compelling argument and I no longer thing that Terry is a hack.

ANyone watched it?

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