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...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


Just a heads-up The Best Worst Movie was pretty drat great. It's a documentary about the movie Troll 2 (which is an old SA favorite and is considered one of the best bad movies ever made) but rather than being a back-patting look at the fandom its more about the people involved and the creation of the film. It's actually directed by the actor who played the boy in the movie, and the man who played the father (who is now a dentist in Alabama) is the centerpiece of the movie and he's fantastic: everybody talks about what a great guy he is and you can just tell that he's loving the sudden unexplained fame he gets going to screenings of the movie. The rest of the cast are just as great, the director is an egomaniac who openly berates the actors and the woman who played the mom is depressingly delusional, talking about how her big break in acting is coming up even though she never leaves the house.

One thing I really loved was the way that it turned on the fandom of the movie. In the first half you have a lot of exuberant, often neckbearded kids singing the praises of the movie and treating the dad like a rockstar, but as time goes on he grows more and more disillusioned with them until by the end he's at a horror movie convention visibly recoiling at how gross the horror fans are ("I bet less than 5% of the people here floss regularly!") before packing up and leaving for good.

Overall it's a great character study and look at the phenomena, even if you haven't seen Troll 2.

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...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
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Does anybody know any good documentaries about public education? I'm more interested in historical or factual stuff, not alarmist "[x] is destroying our youth, only [y] can save us!" bullshit.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


I hated the gently caress out of Dear Zachary, it was manipulative trash that tried way too hard to be edgy and thought that, in lieu of actual evidence, giving its critics funny voices was appropriate. It's central message was "gently caress things like 'evidence', the victims are angry so the person they blame it on should hang even if there's nothing other than circumstantial evidence and character assassination" and if you fell for it you should feel bad.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


Literally nothing Michael Moore does is noteworthy or unusual as far as documentarians go, he just gets a much larger amount of scrutiny because he's popular and he makes people angry. It's the same reason why people who would yell until they were blue in the face about how it was disrespectful to make fun of George Bush's appearance and voice made non-stop fat jokes about Moore after he made Farenheit 9/11.

magnificent7 posted:

I loved it.

But, like with any great documentary, I always wonder how many things change as a result of documentaries?

Supersize Me for example. I remember hearing that McDonalds changed their practice after the movie came out, so that they'd only supersize the meal if the customer requested it... (but I notice they still offer it).

Can you think of any other significant changes as a result of a documentary? I don't mean a lawsuit settlement, but a complete overhaul of a system? The ratings system for instance - upon watching Not Yet Rated, I was positive the MPAA would overhaul everything they're doing, down to changing the ratings themselves. But nnnnnnope.

Give me some examples. What docs changed a fundamental value or law?

Pedigree Dogs Exposed was directly responsible for a lot of Kennel Club rules being changed, like forbidding euthanizing healthy puppies for not fitting the breed standards and banning father/daughter and mother/son breeding pairs.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


homercles posted:

This Is The Last Dam Run of Likker I'm Ever Gonna Make

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCh2NWKhsPo

Marvin 'Popcorn' Sutton's last run of moonshine. I'd make my own moonshine but I'd probably blind myself or blow up my kitchen. It's got music, dancing, likker, 50 minutes of driving around and traipsing in the Appalachians looking for a good likker-makin' spot, and more likker. I wish it was subtitled because I can only understand every second word yeehaw

:eng101: The reason why bootleg liquor made people go blind is because they would cut their product with wood alcohol, either by adding it directly to the final product or by filling out the mash with sawdust. So long as you make your mash with actual foodstuffs like corn and sugar you're golden.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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Mouser.. posted:

I've been on this kick of documentaries where the documentary crew started filming for a different reason and over time, the tone of the documentary turns from optimistic to very pessimistic. A few examples are Lost in La Mancha, The Queen of Versailles and Overnight

Is there any others that can be recommended in this Riches to Rags style?

EDIT: And I've also already seen Catfish

Cleanflix is on Netflix instant, it's a documentary about Mormons illegally selling copies of Hollywood movies that have been edited to remove sex and violence. There is an abrupt twist in the third act.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:

Just skip that Spurlocky piece of poo poo first segment about names.

Really, the fact that Freakonomics has a section that is basically a warmed-over retelling of an oft-repeated bit of racist bullshit that is almost a century old is a pretty good warning for how stupid and unscientific the rest of the book is going to be. If that doesn't scare a person off, there's no helping them.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


xcore posted:

I know this was a rather large/mainstream film when it comes to docos but I watched Bully last night for the first time which is one if the most heartbreaking and rage inducing movies I have seen in a while.

I don't know why, but ever since becoming a father for the first time four months ago I have turned into a blubbering mess when it comes to sad things. I now cry watching Attenborough docos but this one hit me particularly hard.

I kept trying to be macho and distance myself with thoughts of "those crazy Americans with their love of guns and religion, hatred of gays and a lovely education system" but it still hit way too close to home.

As somebody who worked in education I appreciate the movie for bringing to light how loving vicious kids and their parents can be; as a piece designed to raise awareness by inciting an emotional reaction in outsiders it absolutely succeeds.

However, I have major issues with the film's central thesis that the problem is that we aren't tough enough on bullies and that if we socially ostracize them and use peer pressure they'll be perfect little rational actors and stop picking on kids. Bullies amd their victims are both symptoms of how bad mental healthcare and counseling is for society in general and kids in specific; it's just a lot easier to hate the kid whose home issues and developmental disorders manifest in picking on other kids even though they're just as sick and worthy of compassion as the kids whose issues manifest in crippling depression amd suicide.

Also they painted the issue as one of lazy and uncaring teachers rather than institutionalized bullying by administrators (you know the part where they have a town meeting and no teachers came? It's because they can literally fire you for publicly criticizing your school or admimistrators) but considering that poo poo like Waiting For Superman was popular and teachers being lazy and greedy is a national talking point I've just learned to accept it

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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nocal posted:

As someone who is new-ish to education, I was kind of shocked to see that the accepted solution to bullying is to label people (it's not that they have certain behaviors, it's that they are "bullies") and to treat them with derision and scorn. Isn't that basically bullying?

It really is, and it sucks. It's kind of understandable because schools don't have the resources to give problem students the individualized attention they need to help them correct their behavior so they just cram them into normal classrooms under the guise of "mainstreaming" without providing the support, training, and environment necessary to help correct this behavior. So you wind up with a horrible toxic pressure cooker where you're on your own with administrators above you demanding better stats and the students below you getting bored and indignant at having to do boring test prep and channeling that into being disruptive or catatonic. When you put soldiers in that position you wound up with Abu Ghraib, when you put middle management in that position you get breakdowns and workplace shootings, and when you put teachers in that position you get people who are all too happy to intimidate and antagonize a small handful of kids who "deserve" it for the sake of keeping them from disrupting the rest of the kids who behave.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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sportsgenius86 posted:

These are fair points but I think things went to a totally different level when that assistant principal was treating that kid with the speech impediment like he was a giant piece of poo poo because he wouldn't shake the hand of the kid who basically tortures him everyday. That particular administrator should be completely removed from children for the duration of her existence.

Oh, definitely. Independent of everything else Bully is worth watching just for that utterly punchable administrator.

Once I was subbing at a high school and had to show Bully to six different classes over the course of two days. No matter what class or grade level or how involved they were in the movie beforehand, every single group of kids went utterly ballistic at that exact moment, without fail. It's amazing in its awfulness.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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xcore posted:

Did you do that with the "viewing guide" and other supplementary material that is available on the website? How did that go?

I visited the site after watching, just to make sure the kid turned out OK in the end and was pretty impressed with the material they supply with all the "How kids might react to this" "What questions to ask" "Things to be aware of" type stuff.

Sadly, no. It would have been a movie to have a discussion about, though.

mod sassinator posted:

It's a good channel, but really overplays World War II, modern weapons, etc. programming to get ratings these days. Many years ago History Channel (and TLC, The Learning Channel) used to play all kinds of neat and obscure science and history documentaries. I remember watching great science shows like Connections, Newton's Apple, Invention, and others. Now it's all about reality TV and Hitler documentaries.

I'm usually not really into WWII documentaries (especially the USA! OORAH! types you see on the History Channel) but I recently watched two from PBS that I enjoyed because they gave a different viewpoint on the war:

The Ghost Army is about a recently-declassified program during WWII where they hired art students to design and perform subterfuge like disguising factories so that they looked like countryside when viewed from the air, or setting up fake battalions of tanks made of canvas and sticks with speakers and radio transmitters playing recorded and mixed sounds of an entire army on the move. Having a bunch of art students (many of whom would go on to work in fashion, film, and comics) showing off the sketches they made of Nazi-occupied villages and the people they met over the war is a nice change of pace and surprisingly engaging considering they only saw combat once and it was by mistake. Plus they had a totally rad logo:



:iia:

Top Secret Rosies: The Female Computers of WWII is about the women they had working for the military during WWII. It's great because you usually never see women being interviewed for these types of documentaries so getting their viewpoint and perspective on helping to kill a bunch of people is very surprising and honest.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


err posted:

I finished watching Chasing Ice on Netflix. Can anyone recommend other documentaries on climate change? There has to be other ones out there besides An Inconvenient Truth.

Since the home-made Ancient Aliens Debunked doc was posted earlier, I figure it's kosher to mention potholer54. The dude has a fantastic ongoing series about climate change where he addresses specific myths and arguments. Their production values are non-existent (they're narrated slide shows with a few video clips) but he presents things in a very accessible way and isn't shrill or insulting.

If you poke around his channel he also has a great series on evolution (that, sadly, indulges in some :jerkbag: religion-bashing that makes it a lot harder to show to the people who would probably benefit from it the most) as well as some stand-alone pieces about journalism based on his own work as a journalist.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


nocal posted:

Additionally, protein and fat have fewer calories per gram than carbohydrates.

Dude, no. Roughly breaking down the different macronutrients, carbohydrates and proteins have 4 calories per gram while fat has 8 calories per gram. If you want to include ethanol, it has 7 calories per gram. This is, like, basic nutrition.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3972 days!


Baron Bifford posted:

I am looking for documentaries about female athletes, in particular female bodybuilders. Any good recommendations?

On a different topic, I recommend to anyone this lecture by an American law professor, who argues that it is NEVER a good idea to talk to the police without the guidance of an attorney. You only put yourself at risk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Probably not what you were looking for (or maybe exactly what you were looking for :v:) but Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends did a segment on male :airquote:fans:airquote: of female bodybuilding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OWqz5FMEY0

Never Talk to Police is fantastic, another good companion piece (despite the training film-level acting) is BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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NeilPerry posted:

I don't know, going vegan, stop buying foxconn products, checking where your clothes are being made are all very easy drastic things to do and go a long way. And it's not like people aren't inclined to do those things, they just feel like it's too difficult(it isn't) and are constantly being pressured by society to be apathetic about these things.

This kind of identity politics dick-waving is exactly what scares most people away from activism in the first place. :thumbsup:

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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Basebf555 posted:

It really is amazing how many people I've talked to that actually sat down and watched Blackfish, and still they say stuff like "I'm sure it was exaggerated" and "it just seemed really biased against SeaWorld". I dunno, I guess a lot of people have fond memories of going to SeaWorld as a kid and don't want to think that they may have contributed to the torture and imprisonment of an intelligent creature.

People in America are basically conditioned to expect their news to be passive and "fair and balanced", ie uncritically be a platform for somebody's sound bites and then play a soundbite from the opposite side with no over editorializing or actual fact-checking. Actively wearing your agenda and narrative on your sleeve but backing it up with facts and eyewitness accounts and actual footage is "biased" and can be safely compartmentalized if not outright ignored.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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Can't post for 3972 days!


Also Sea World refused point-blank to be interviewed for Blackfish or to provide any sort of counterpoint despite being contacted by the film-makers multiple times, so even if you wanted to have them dedicate screen time to talking heads from Sea World in the name of fairness Sea World wasn't going to have anything to do with it.

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...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
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Ropes4u posted:

If your open to the fact that we are being hosed over by big pharmacy watch.

American Addict:
America is less than 5% of the World's population but consumes 80% of the World's prescription narcotics. We have gone from being the land of the free to the land of the addicted

More people are taking psych meds because the stigma surrounding them is gradually lessening and they're becoming more accessible due to general practitioners and more drugs losing their copyrights rather than an insidious attempt at tainting our precious bodily fluids. I've never seen tjis doc but the summary reminds me a lot of the Fat Sick and Nearly Dead which took a sensible observarion (a lot of people are overweight and suffer medical issues because of that) and used it as a springboard into what was effectively a feature-length juicer commercial.

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