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Well, the show more or less took the True Detective timeslot since Pizzo has been so delayed in his writing, so it makes sense that HBO maybe would have 'advised' a similar style where they could. In preparation for the finale of The Jinx I re-watched Capturing The Friedmans and boy, did I like it even less the second time around. So much so that it likely soured my viewing of the finale. Where do DocGoons stand on the film? Especially on Jarecki himself? Given that I dislike that doco and disliked All Good Things I'm surprised that I liked The Jinx so much, since it's essentially those two things smashed together.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:48
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:38 |
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Well Jarecki says he 'accidentally' stumbled into the story while trying to make another documentary, which is suspect. The way he treats the case seems initially to be even-handed, but turns out to be pretty biased in favour of the accused (which isn't inherently bad for a movie, its just troubling when you advocate unannounced) who he is supporting and shifting the story in favour of. The way that he chooses to pace the reveal of certain critical facts - those that he didn't just exclude altogether - is misleading in a way that goes beyond simple storytelling technique. Etc. Overall my issue is that he clearly has an agenda in making this movie, but he hides it throughout and many have accused him of doing so to align himself with the praise the film first received during festival showings. There is a movie to be made about the difficulty of rationally handling a case like this, one that involves children, and the way that some societies don't fare well in doing so; The Hunt is an excellent example of this. There is also a place for movies that try to bring to light what appear to be mishandled cases and miscarriages of justice; West of Memphis, etc. Though despite containing these elements that's not really what Friedmans is, it's something seemingly more malicious than either of those; propoganda hidden behind the veil of objectivity, a personal act presented as that of a stranger. Whatever Jarecki's relationship with the family was before filming he seems to have gotten too close to them to make this movie in the way he was trying too, they are too much a part of it, his camera too close (to the point that he uses their footage for a majority of the screentime)and because of that it's warped things in worrying ways. People praise the movie as an example of ambiguity, of the fact that there are no facts, that you can never truly know the truth and it can operate as that, but I don't believe that was the intention for the film going in. It's hard to nail it down, but there's something very troubling about the way that the movie is made.
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Mar 17, 2015 03:36
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My natural inclination is also to side with Jesse, because the charges laid against him - like anal leapfrogging, which just sounds logistically like more trouble than its worth - are ludicrous and the evidence for them entirely circumstantial. However my opinion is based primarily on the facts present in the film and the way it presents them; whereas, if you were to read any of the reporing done on the case recently people seem absolutely certain that he did commit some of the crimes he was accused of, not all of them, not the more ludicrous ones, but some. That's where it becomes problematic that Jarecki feigns objectivity: if he came out and said, or even suggested, that he felt this guy was innocent we could view the film with a more critical eye, but instead he plays it more innocuously, tempting us to be more accepting that these are 'the' facts, not 'his' facts. It's a really difficult issue, and I don't know what the right answer is, but I can't help but feel that he handled presenting the truth poorly, and now with The Jinx he seems to have again crossed the line from honestly reconstructing the story to simply telling one of his own creation. Which, again, still makes for fascinating viewing but I don't know if I can stomach it that easily.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:29
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Eh, I was pretty disappointed with Going Clear. It was a bit of a mess structurally, a blatantly biased attack piece and overall a bit puerile. I'm not, nor have I ever considered, being a xenutoligist but I do find the hatred towards them to be problematic, every single accusation made in this film could and should also be made about Catholicism, Christianity, Islam, any of the 'accepted' religions really. I was hoping that Gibney would get beyond the shocking tabloid stories and shiny celebrity cameos to look more at the psychology under-riding these cults and religions, to use scientology as a single example of a larger phenomena but it never really tried to do that, or to tread new ground in general. Given all the hype I had hoped that they would take a less simplistic view than the usual 'This poo poo's weird!' but alas, that's what you get from Four-films-a-year Gibney. On the other hand, the music was cool. Just enough of The Master in there, very alien and upsetting. Might try to find an OST.
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Mar 31, 2015 13:05
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My point was less about the comparative evils of different religions and more about the one track mindset of the documentary. Gibney rushes his products sometimes and that seems the case here, he skims the surface and takes the easy punches, never really addressing anything new. He basically makes animated Wikipedia articles at this point, which is fine but not too inspiring. God Willing from a few years back I found a much more fascinating look at this kind of thing, wiping the minds of the weak and vulnerable. Prophet's Prey coming out later this year also looks good, dealing with the last religion it was cool to hate one; but Amy Berg and Nick Cave are names that pull me better than Gibney. I did mean to read the book last year as that seemed a more interesting take, I can believe that it might deliver more of what wanted from this. (Off-topic Warning) As you say there are plenty of religious people and organizations who do good acts and I can't believe that Scientology has absolutely none of these to its name. The squirrel busters seem to be equivalent to the Westboro Baptists, or a lesser Islamic hate group. There are extremists here certainly and malpractices, enough of both to require an investigation and enough to warrant staying away from the people, which seems easy enough to me. It's hard to have sympathy or outrage for people volunteering to be in bad situations; terms like 'slave labour' seem overwrought and almost offensive given that the 'slaves' here have the option to just go get another job outside the organization. Meanwhile, there are countries that don't make their religions optional, whose laws are not a choice you make. Call me when Miscevitch is President, then i'll join the xenu-phobic fear mob and help kick the dead horse. Viginti fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 22:29
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Animal-Mother posted:Yes, they could just leave. And get harassed for years on end, stalked, slandered, separated from their families, driven to suicide, thrown into the ocean, or possibly kidnapped and murdered. It's a mafia. But instead of being based on old Sicilian notions of tribal loyalty, it's based on a crazy man's sci-fi stories. Well that there is part of my issue with the documentary being the way it was; there are the Scientology propaganda pieces that are deluded and fantastical in their presentation of the organization and then there are attack pieces like this on the other pole (though admittedly this isn't the complete opposite, it had some objective sections) and i'm yet to see a truly even-keeled look at the group, free from sensationalizing and agenda. For every ex-member that has a horror story there has to be a hundred that simply signed out and never heard from the cult again apart from the occasional email for money, ala those I still get from Obama and Spotify, but we don't hear those stories, just like we don't hear the stories of the people who do get something small out of the teachings or community, like we do whenever there is an attack on an accepted religion. If we're speaking of naivety, it's naive to believe that this institution has the power to pester everyone that leaves its ranks in the way that they do the few high-profile members that quit. I find those tales to be troubling like everyone else, the stalking - unlike The Hole, or being Tom Cruise's girlfriend - is forced upon unwilling people and is genuinely a terrible thing, but it seems the exception and not the rule. If i went down, signed up for Thetan 101 then bailed after a week no-one would stalk me because it would be a waste of resources that they simply don't have with only 50k members. These small-scale stories are the ones we don't hear (the mother and her son were given a fraction of the time the others were, and she was the only one), the everyday reality of the religion, and if it turns out that every single members story is the same then that is scarier, but i'm yet to see any objective evidence of that fact. Overall I just think that its a troubling practice, as a documentary maker, to only interview one side of the issue. If you only speak to the people who were recently ousted from the seat of power then you're going to get a bitter, negative depiction. I understand that given the Omerta code and media-savy nature of the organization you're not going to get many current members on tape, but something was needed to temper this bias.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:55
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The thing about this documentary that some of are you saying doesn't go through new information: for a lot of normal people not in the know (and its a lot) this is all mind blowing to them. My dad called me up after I told him to watch it and he was in disbelief. A lot of people really don't know even the basics of Scientology or the poo poo they've done. They just know Tom Cruise and Travolta are a bit crazy. That's really what Gibney does well, animating Wikipedia articles, documentary as textbook. It's just that given the hype and festival acclaim I thought maybe he had stumbled onto something better than a Today Tonight story. I mean, anyone besides the Chaser whose work uses clips from Today Tonight should question what they're doing.
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Apr 1, 2015 05:50
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Infotainment! posted:So, what's it like being unable to reach orgasm without being savagely beaten by David Miscavige? You know, you're totally right. The only way I could have found some flaws in this anti-Scientology film is by being a devout member. You caught me. We also really were wrong to attack anyone that didn't hold our exact same views rather than enter a discussion with them. It's a good thing that this is a trait exclusive to us scientoligists, imagine a world where everyone was that reactive to disagreements over unimportant details. As an AT3 I'm very interested in levels and I wonder what the next level is here; will you be contacting my family to let them know that by disagreeing with the dogma around this film I've made myself a Subversive Poster and that they should distance themselves?
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Apr 2, 2015 06:07
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I assume that they didn't just make it all up for the movie, although given the current state of documentaries who knows? It's a pretty crazy story though and far more fascinating than the 'Gangster History' that I thought it was going to be; not sure why its advertised as a Whitey film when he's far more of a catalyst than an actual character. I wonder how much of this will be covered in Black Mass, I sort of like the idea of that being his personal story and this being a chronicle of the ripples he caused though, so I'll be fine if the answer is none of it. Given that they cast Adam Scott as hero cop and Edgerton as corrupt cop I can't imagine they'll have huge screentime but I would love it if they do.
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Apr 24, 2015 12:39
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Animal-Mother posted:Every single one of those guys traded information for protection at some point. Bulger just made a big show of refusing to testify because it's his last fight and he wants the streets to remember him as an outlaw hero. This seems pretty likely, but its also sort of besides the point, which isn't whether he gave information but whether or not he was technically signed on as a legitimate informant and if so, did he ever give any information that wasn't directly to his own benefit? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems strange to me that the state could argue that he was both an informant and didn't have immunity. If he was an informant than he had to be getting something from it, there had to be a deal, and if there is no immunity document then he probably was never a real informant. Whether or not it's as deep as Berlinger suggests there is a gap in the story here, a missing link in the logic of it all that doesn't speak well to the FBI.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:16
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Nick Broomfield's Tales of the Grim Sleeper airs on HBO tonight (the 27th), it looks pretty fascinating and people have dug it at festivals. Should be worth a watch.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:43
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As someone who likes Nirvana's music but never bought into the Cobain as Christ Mythology the Gen X's had, is it worth the time? Should I see the Broomfield instead?
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May 15, 2015 08:34
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An amazing documentary and remarkable how much Anderson just stole directly from it (I don't view stealing as a bad thing in cinema). I want to add my vote to all the others supporting Dawg Fight as worth a watch. It went on a little long, or at least it stretched itself in directions that didn't work as well for me but the initial concept and the treatment of it is great. Also watched Sherman's March today and rather enjoyed it. Are any of his other films worth watching or is this the only one that manages to balance his very precarious style?
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May 27, 2015 12:36
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:38 |
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I was really impressed by Happy Valley. The story at the centre of the film wasn't one that I felt I needed to hear any more about, it pretty much being covered by the news/Daily Show/etc. but the treatment here was interesting; looking more at the psychology behind football and scandal and hero worship and the effect this whole ordeal had on the community. It's not a very optimistic look at humanity, but its a pretty unique one.
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Jun 26, 2015 08:33
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